Talk:The Eye of Jupiter/Archive3

I wonder if it has to do with that big red spot... *rollseyes* --Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 18:48, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

I'm more reminded of that Writer's Podcast thing, you know when they're saying "How many more times are we going to find an artifact like the Arrow of Apollo and have to search for them all? That feels like going back to the well too many times, I mean what are we going to say, "Athena has 10 sacred toenail clipping scattered across space, you have to find them all...?" :) --The Merovingian ^{(C - E)} 18:49, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

i'm thinking along the lines of some jewelry. --Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 18:57, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

It sounds like a good plotline actually. --The Merovingian ^{(C - E)} 19:05, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

Merv - you just made me spill forth mein coca cola whilst reading the section about the sacred toenail clippings - thats too much for 3am on a sunday morning! Still, plot looks good, just wish Season 3 would hurry up and AIR dammit! :) --Fordsierra4x4 21:08, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

No, really, they make a joke about "Athena's toenail clippings" in that writer's podcast thing. --The Merovingian ^{(C - E)} 21:12, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

I have a few possible meanings for 'eye of Jupiter' --starryniteynite

1) Relatively obscure name for NGC 3242, a planetary nebula (A ring of illuminated gas expanding out from a sun-like star that's exhausted its fuel, and has lost its outer layers) a few thousand light years from Earth. Most astronomers call this 'the Ghost of Jupiter' instead, though some Hubble images have used this name. Its not a very unique PN (tho it has some gas streamers we can't quite explain), but it could be used as a navigational marker like M8 (the lagoon nebula). It is a very pretty nebula :)

2) "Eye of Jupiter" was the Greek/Roman name for the sun, which lead to today's 'all seeing eye' symbol of the free masons and on the pyramid in US currency

3)Adama=Zeus=Jupiter...yes, they tend to use Greek vs. Roman names, but the titles are not always consistent with this convention, and we have also seen evidence for non Greek mythological names (Isis, for example). The rest of it could be wordplay too...'eye' might refer to someone acting as Adama's eyes, rather than his eyes literally (just as 'The captain's hand refereed to Lee acting as Gardner's XO, or his hand, rather than some captain's literal hand)

4)A reference to Jupiter's big red spot, a huge hurricane-like storm on the planet's surface. Just like the "bastille Day" title, this could reference something in the episode, but not directly...they might travel through a similar storm. This has actually been done before in the miniseries, when Galactica travels into the storm at Ragnar

5) The tried and true, ancient object meaning...just like the arrow of Apollo directly references a character, but has no link to the character himself, this could just be a pretty piece of bling..

Personally, I would love #1, but only because it'd make me 2/2 for BSG objects in my thesis and I'm a total, unabashed geek. I think its probably #2, however, and they find some sort of navigational means of finding Earth (like a picture of Earth w/ distances& directions to three pulsars or very unique objects

Duelling Sharons[edit]

So did anyone else get a sense of animosity/jealousy between the two Sharons? While it seems that Boomer has accepted her place amongst the Cylons and no longer considers herself a part of the humans, it also seems that she's a bit jealous of Athena's "taking her place", if you could call it that. Likewise, it also seemed that aside from her duties as a Colonial officer, Athena's refusal to let Boomer in with Adama was also somewhat out of personal distrust, ironically the same distrust of the Cylons that her fellow Colonial colleagues have.

Also, while Boomer told Athena about Hera's condition out of possible concern of the child (possible strain of humanity left in her? Cylon imperative? Or something else?), seems to me that Boomer enjoyed bursting her "sister"'s bubble on that. Talk about sibling rivalry there.

It'll be interesting to see if there will be any further Sharon vs. Sharon confrontations in the series.--み使い Mitsukai 23:55, 15 December 2006 (CST)

It was a very, very interesting dynamic. In any other show, we would have had a knock-down dragout "catfight." You hit the nail on the head. This episode was prime stuff. And, we on the wiki should be commended: our Galactica nuke count is right on the money! (Either that, or the show is using us as a source! :) --Spencerian 00:20, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Does that mean we can finally change the "Class-D Nuclear Warhead" to something completely different, since their nukes aren't Class-D? :P --Madbrood 10:42, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Image[edit]

Let's find an image that actually occurs in this episode. Maybe the wide shot of Tyrol in the temple? --Peter Farago 02:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Heh which one? to me it seems the Chief was a bit wide in ALL shots ; how could he gain weight while the fleet was starving? the chief definitely deserves the Lee Adama Fat-Ass trophy --lordmutt 03:10, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Maybe it was Chief, and not Dr. Cottle, that got all of Kat's energy bars from the last ep.--み使い Mitsukai 12:25, 16 December 2006 (CST)

So... is someone with the means actually going to replace the image with one relevant to this episode? --Mars 21:12, 20 December 2006 (CST)

Silly joking aside, I agree that the picture should be replaced. I'd do it, but I don't have a good screencap --Serenity 17:34, 23 December 2006 (CST)

I happen to have the episode, so, it's done. --Spencerian 23:57, 23 December 2006 (CST)

Well, I still see a thumbnail of the old image here and there (e.g. on the main page or on Mercifull's user page). -- Spike 18:09, 27 December 2006 (CST)

You may need to purge your browser's image cache to see the new image. --Spencerian 00:12, 28 December 2006 (CST)

I've just purged my Maxthon's image cache a moment ago and I still see an old thumbnail. Tried that also with Opera and Firefox -- all the same. -- Spike 04:27, 28 December 2006 (CST)

Did Starbuck survive?[edit]

Horray for the carelessness of adverts! Within ten minutes we knew the answer to that one. --Mars 09:14, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Aside from that, it's going to continue the cycle of Soap Opera unease there, if Dee's the one sent to go get Starbuck back. Can't wait to see the uncomfortable stares on that one, especially if (as I suspect) Dee set up Starbuck to be the "eye in the sky" hoping the Cylons would shoot her down.--み使い Mitsukai 11:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Who else was supposed to fly the mission? Looks like Lee and Kara are the only two qualified pilots on the ground and Lee is needed in overall command. --Serenity 12:34, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Nuking the Planet[edit]

Does anyone else think that the nuclear missiles have the ability to be detonated remotely, before they reach their target? --Madbrood 10:44, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Not to mention abort code transmissions, etc. Makes you wonder if the missiles were set for "one shot, one kill" mode, where they could not be recalled.--み使い Mitsukai 11:39, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Or perhaps the missiles can be aborted, until they reach a critical flight time. Could make for a very tense moment or two. --Madbrood 14:51, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Is it just me or didn't he actually give the order to fire. He said "release of nuclear weapons is now authorized". That might sound strange, but I took that to be a preliminary order to firing. For example that now even Tigh would be able to launch them on his say --Serenity 15:03, 18 December 2006 (CST)

No, you're correct on that; essentially all they were doing was opening the "barn doors". I was discussing the hypotheticals of the missiles, if they should be launched in the next ep.--み使い Mitsukai 19:33, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Aye, we're just jumping the gun a little, and discussing possibles ways out of it, if Adama does indeed decide to launch :) --Madbrood 02:17, 21 December 2006 (CST)

Am I the only one who thinks he might be targeting the nukes for the Raiders on their way to the surface? --BklynBruzer 18:53, 21 December 2006 (CST)

Then why this-

Adama:Load target package three-bravo. Set ground zero for the underground structure.

-Madbrood 19:19, 29 December 2006 (CST)

Damn, I missed that. Consider me stumped, then. -BklynBruzer 05:17, 30 December 2006 (CST)

I watched the episode for the first time last night. I had this theory after the show ended...If the star of this system is going to go supernova, as Gaeta has described,

("Gaeta: Could be tomorrow. Could be next year. There's no way of knowing for sure, sir. When it does happen, the only warning that we're likely to get is a fast helium flash, at which point we'll have to jump out of here before it obliterates the entire planetary system. Sir, I am not one to look for religious signs. But I can't get my head around these odds. That human and Cylon both converge on this planet at this exact moment just as the star's about to go supernova…")

there most likely is an abundance of solar phenomena being emitted from the sun, maybe an increase of solar flares even. Solar flares have the "energy equivalent to a billion megatons, traveling normally at about 1 million km per hour"..."They produce electromagnetic radiation across the electromagnetic spectrum at all wavelengths from long-wave radio to the shortest wavelength gamma rays:(solar flare wiki ref.) I know that Solar Flares can disrupt electronics on and orbiting earth, and I'm sure Galactica's systems are somewhat protected from bursts of electromagnetic energy...but somehow I had the idea that the nukes are probably not as well insulated. Since there is so much solar activity in the region, I had the idea that maybe something like a flare (not the helium flash Gaeta talked about) would happen just as the nukes were launched..causing them to blow in the upper atmosphere directly over the temple. This would allow for quite a light show, and perhaps could allow that light shaft in the Temple of Five to be intensified. On the BaseStar with Baltar and Three, the Hybrid mentions something about "the five lights of the apocalypse" here:

"Hybrid: ...I don't care if it rains or freezes, as long as… the five lights of the apocalypse rising... sins revealed only to those who enter the temple, only to the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, the chosen one, end of line. Until next time … the eye, the eye, the eye, look into the eye to know thyself."

Maybe this is the way the temple is activated, maybe this is how the eye of Jupiter (Jupiter/Zeus/Adama's nukes) appears over the temple and activates the key...and Hey, maybe the solar flare would take care of the Heavy Rader flight systems too...Who knows, just an idea I had wished to share.

"Chief: And the heavens opened up, and they saw the Eye. But where is that frakking Eye?"

--Gallion 10:08, 3 January 2007 (CST)

Holy crap that's a good theory. Wow. --BklynBruzer 12:06, 3 January 2007 (CST)

Nice theory indeed. Maybe the five lights of the apocalypse are actually five nukes? Nukes would qualify as lights of apocalypse, but then so would a supernova. Also, I revisited the Hybrid's prophecy: ("Find the hand that lies in the shadow of the light, in the eye of the husband of the eye of the cow"). The light is most likely the bright star cluster (although it could also be the nukes, the supernova or the helium flash), but "in the shadow" hasn't really been explained properly. Now I just realized that since the temple is an underground structure, it would be in the shadow all the time. Might be something, might not be something, we'll see. --Catrope 13:47, 3 January 2007 (CST)

WTF moment[edit]

I was on the Karl Agathon page, updating it for this ep's news, when I came across this old picture. Considering how Kara's painting looks and that she's religious (though not indoctrinated in any sort of clerical form, unlike Chief Tyrol's parentage), does anyone think that (in hindsight), this may have been a hint to the Eye itself?--み使い Mitsukai 12:37, 16 December 2006 (CST)

It actually makes a lot of sense... Taking Zeus to mean Admiral Adama, and that Kara Thrace is the go-to pilot for reconnaissance missions, AND the paintings on the walls, we have a plausible theory in the works! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Alcibiades (talk • contribs).

Are you kidding me?! They set this episode up a year ago! --Galactageek 19:39, 16 December 2006 (CST)

I find it pretty hard to believe too, but that painting really really really looks like the art in the temple. --Saforrest 20:41, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Maybe they though it would be a nice idea to take that painting, put it in the Temple more than a season later, and see if we notice. --Catrope 09:20, 18 December 2006 (CST)

It's a painting in her room and part of the column in the temple. :) --Galactageek 01:31, 19 December 2006 (CST)

So Starbuck is an artist. She paints The Eye of Jupiter. Is it a known symbol or is this the first time anyone else has seen it? If it's not well-known, what does that say about Starbuck? Doesn't it make her prescient? Maybe her true calling is as an oracle. --Galactageek 01:29, 19 December 2006 (CST)

I'm with Catrope here. If I'm remembering my "Valley Of Darkness" podcast correctly, Tahmoh and Katee painted the apartment themselves, without any direction from Ron or the rest of the show crew. It's quite possible that someone noticed that particular pattern and decided to make it significant. And, hey, maybe she is an Oracle who just hasn't realized that she has the gift. Give the girl some chamalla and see what she can do. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Starbuck found a spiritual calling to fill the enormous gaps in her soul that she tries to fill with sex, booze, speed, duty, and violence. --Slander 13:33, 19 December 2006 (CST)

A friend of mine told me he though the painting and the decoration looked a lot like a star or an explosion, and then brought up the word "supernova". Could this picture be some sort of reference to the star going supernova? (I must admit I'm contradicting myself here, because I said earlier I thought the similarity to be some sort of an inside joke. Of course it's possible that Sackhoff&Penikett accidentally painted something that looked like an explosion, and that's why the writers chose that particular painting.) --Catrope 09:36, 22 December 2006 (CST)

I've updated the Cylon agent speculation article on Thrace's entry with the two pictures in question. This is not a coincidence; there is some connection, but we have to wait to know what. --Spencerian 15:45, 12 January 2007 (CST)

Well it turns out Mitsukai was right, and a lot of others were not!--Alcibiades 05:43, 23 January 2007 (CST)

Mitsukai was right, brilliantly found indeed, but don't forget about me and my friend :P (see comment above). --Catrope 07:30, 23 January 2007 (CST)

Catrope, you were dead on. Ron Moore confirms on the podcast that Sackhoff painted it on the set and the writers, looking at that shoot sometime during the writing of this episode, decided to incorporate it. It's kind of scary how the parts fit together so neatly even though they ARE coming up with stuff by the seat of their pants. --Galactageek 01:37, 24 January 2007 (CST)

Aye it is. Don't forget that the entire Starbuck-storyline pretty much goes back to Flesh and Bone, when Leoben says she's special and she has a pre-written destiny. In The Farm, Caprica-Sharon repeats it, meaning that it's not some of Leoben's usual crap. And now we finally get a clue as to what he meant. It all fits perfectly, yet Season 1 and 2 can hardly have been written with this episode in mind. --Catrope 03:34, 24 January 2007 (CST)

18 Casualties & Relevance to "The Passage"[edit]

If 18 people were lost from The Passage episode, that means that 17 (at most) were aboard those two lost civilian ships, right? I'm only bringing this up to clarify what transpired — from that, and what we saw, the Raptors would pair up with a civilian ship, and that ship's passenger complement would be transferred onto Galactica (more heavily shielded, combat FTL drive) for the ferry run through the cluster. The civilian ship would then be crewed by an absolute bare minimum number of crewers. Then, when the group reached the other side of the cluster, the passengers would be transported back to their ships (if they survived the passage), the ships would remain at "Algae-planet", and Galactica would turn around and go back to the original side to repeat the cycle over again for a new group of civilian ships?

Am I reading/viewing this right? -- Hawke 13:53, 16 December 2006 (CST)

The ships were manned by skeleton crews. That was even mentioned in "The Passage" --Serenity 14:01, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Don't forget that 14 days have transpired. there could have been more births in the fleet. I just came up with the difference from the two episodes--Quig 16:10, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Humanoid Cylons recognize each other on sight[edit]

While back on New Craprica, Number 3 knew right away that it was Sharon Agathon. Of course, who else would be trying to remove the ship's launch keys?

This episode, we see that Athena knew on sight that this Number Eight was Boomer. Interesting.

Can Cylons tell on sight which of the copies they are? It's already established that the bulletheads can't.

Note in last weeks episode, Baltar was able to pick The D'anna number three out of the hallway on sight, even though there is an identically dressed number three in the same hallway. Belay-down-your-burdens 16:50, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Those two instances do prove that they do recognize one another, which was hinted at in the "Cylon Agent" page. I guess now it's more than a hint. --Sauron18 16:54, 16 December 2006 (CST)

I thought it could be something like recognizing a computer by its IP address, y'know, like the Cylons are all tied into one network and they've got like a special ID code on that network. --BklynBruzer 05:45, 24 January 2007 (CST)

Names of marines[edit]

Has anyone heard (or seen in close captions) the names of the marines that were with Starbuck and Dualla? I know one of them is Fischer, but the other three? I heard something like: Criggs, Verek, Ditko. Ausir 17:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)

According to the caption, it's Griggs and Varrick; the spelling/pronouncation of the third lad is anyone else's guess. For some reason, the closed caption for this episode doesn't pick up everything for me. --Mars 09:48, 17 December 2006 (CST)

OK, we know that it's Fischer, Griggs, Varrick, Henick and Ditko. Since after she says "Henick and Ditko" the camera centers first on the black guy and then on the bald guy, can we assume that the first one is Henick and the latter one is Ditko, and the one in a hat is Griggs? It's conjectural, but looks reasonable to me and it would be nice to add pictures to their articles. Ausir 14:46, 22 December 2006 (CST)

Location of the Eye?[edit]

At the end of the episode, Tyrol says something about "the sky will open, and the eye will be revealed." Did that make anyone else think of the star going nova? -- Benabik 22:15, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Good idea, but is it possible that such a "blowup" could be predicted in the sacred scrolls thousands of years ago? -- SuperMMX 01:15, 17 December 2006 (CST)

Why not? A race of humans capable of traveling from Kobol to Earth probably knows at least as much about stellar evolution as the Colonials Xenophon10k 07:39, 17 December 2006 (CST)

The Sacred Scrolls have so far contained information about Laura Roslin being sick, Sharon Agathon helping them to find the Tomb of Athena, and more... In addition to various prophetic dreams... Sure, they could have predicted it. -- Benabik 11:26, 17 December 2006 (CST)

When Tyrol commented about blowing up the Temple, I already thought "What if the Eye is INSIDE the pillar and they have to blow it up to get it out?" But surely an explosion destroying the entire system would destroy the Eye as well? And if it didn't, the Eye would not be easy to find between the debris of an entire planet. But blowing up a pillar doesn't exactly qualify as "the sky will open"... Maybe it refers to blowing up the roof or something like that... --Catrope 12:04, 17 December 2006 (CST)

Note the shaft of light streaming across the central pillar in the final scenes of the episode. Perhaps something will be revealed when it becomes centered upon the prominent symbol seen there. --Spidey3 12:29, 18 December 2006 (CST)

That was the way my mind was working. --Madbrood 14:39, 18 December 2006 (CST)

I believe that the Sky Opening Up will be the explosion of the nuclear weaponry activating or destroying something which will then reveal the Eye. --Teal Thanatos

Boomer in the brig?[edit]

Did Boomer get thrown in the galactica brig once Athena pointed her out? Was she allowed to return to the Basestars? Bstone 01:49, 17 December 2006 (CST)

I doubt it because they probably would have it done right there rather than holding her outside first. I'm sure they let her leave with the others and advised her not to let the door hit on the arse on the way out. --Mars 09:46, 17 December 2006 (CST)

Besides, the least thing they need on Galactica right now would be Boomer to break out of the brig, throw on a uniform and have a "Guess the Sharon" contest. Aside from that, I expect that kind of trite plotwork I just mentioned from lesser sci-fi series, not this one.--み使い Mitsukai 19:37, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Summary[edit]

We really need a longer summary up there, the only point it currently mentions is kind of random -_- --Catrope 10:58, 17 December 2006 (CST)

D'anna's search for the five vs. the Temple of Five[edit]

I haven't seen much discussion on the connection between "the five" Cylons and the Temple of the Five. Since the Temple was built by the 13th tribe, a connection doesn't seem likely in a conventional linear timeline; but like the painting in Starbuck's apartment, it's hard to dismiss as a mere coincidence.

Such a connection does, however, clear up some verisimilitude issues for me – namely, the rate at which the Cylon's biological technology advanced in relation to both Cylon and Colonial conventional technology.

In less than 40 years' time, the Cylons were able to develop the Cylon Agents – and in such a way that made indiscernable from humans – and all of the ressurection technology that went with it. Meanwhile, their conventional, mechanical technology hasn't made nearly the same leaps. And Colonial technology hasn't advanced much at all. Pegasus was a much more formidable vessel than Galactica, but only in terms of size and firepower. Technologically speaking, they weren't that dissimilar. Everyone's still using nuclear missles as their most advanced form of weaponry.

Clearly, the Cylons have had a little help. Now, with dual references to a group of five that must not be named, we're starting to get an idea of from where that help may have come.

I'm not sure how that jibes with the Cylon's monotheistic religion (also established within those 40 years), versus the Colonies' polytheism, but I'm sure Mr.Moore has it worked out.

How great it is to have a show with a fleshed out story line already established, as opposed to the "make it up as we go" approach to shows like Star Trek (all incarnations), X-Files and Lost over our last 40 years. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tylonius (talk • contribs).

To Battlestar's credit, it did take a while to flesh out the story from a viewer's perspective, but what we know is quite intriguing. Their God and the Colonial gods may be one and the same, and may change how the Cylons treat the Colonials and vice versa. I don't think the five faces will be all shown, but we might see one. And yes, it is good to enjoy a show that makes a greater effort to maintain a consistent storyline. --Spencerian 09:01, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Time may not be an issue. Remember the Colonial Scriptures are full of prophecies, it wouldn't be too farfetched to assume that the Temple of Five could've been constructed for something before it happened, for the purpose of making it happen in due time.

The Five could do whatever releated them to the temple much like Roslin is directly related to finding the tomb Athena, even though she lived thousands of years after everything else was set.

This is all speculation, of course, but oh well....--Sauron18 13:59, 19 December 2006 (CST)

The Final Five are directly connected to the Temple of Five: http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2006/12/one_of_the_cent.html -- Noneofyourbusiness 16:16, 20 December 2006 (CST)

“Essentially the Temple of the Five is directly connected to the five Cylons we have not seen.” - RDM

I've been thinking about the ambiguous sins the Hybrid mentions, that appear to be in regards to the Five. My working theory is that the five priests who served "The One Who Cannot Be..." and the Five Cylon Models who served the Cylon God both committed the sin of Rebellion, and that both dieties they rebelled against are one and the same. I also (big leap now), think that Model One is among the Rebel Five. Being rebel Angels of God (as Virtual-Six refers to herself), that would make One the RDM-equivalent to TOS-Lucifer, now wouldn't it? Chief and first of the (from the cylon perspective) "fallen" angels (as opposed to speculation that One is the Cylon God) --Viperetto13 02:16, 23 December 2006 (CST)

Human Nicknames[edit]

I cropped the following from the episode summary. Nothing against either point, just taking it off until somebody can figure out how to reconcile it into a single level deep bullet point (or points). Cropped text:

This is the first time the Cylons use "human" names on the basestar when not speaking to Baltar. D'Anna is named by Caprica-Six and another Number Three. Cavil's name is used by D'Anna.
- It is possible that these names are nicknames for the Cylons who've been amongst the humans (much like Caprica-Six), but it could also be the writers weaseling out of coming up with numbers for Cavil, Leoben and Simon. In The Passage, D'Anna even mentions having a discussion with "one of the Simons".

Thanks. --Steelviper 08:51, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Err how about:

This episode marks the first time the Cylons use "human" names when not speaking to Baltar: Caprica-Six and another Three call D'Anna by her human name, who in turn uses Cavil's name. These could be nicknames for Cylons who've been living among humans (cf. Caprica-Six).
Once again, the writers have dodged the issue of Cavil's, Leoben's and Simon's numbers. In "Torn", Caprica-Six says "The ones you know as Leoben...", in "The Passage" Number Three mentions having a discussion with "one of the Simons" and in this episode a Three simply calls one of the Cavils "Cavil".

Please correct my style here, I didn't know exactly how to quote/paraphrase things like "one of the Simons" etc. --Catrope 09:12, 18 December 2006 (CST)

One bullet point might be enough if the second part is connected with a word like "thus". However we shouldn't use "weasling". It sounds too negative and critical where criticism isn't really needed. Maybe something like "dodging the issue" or "circumventing"? That means the same and isn't as POV.

Btw: episode names aren't italicized, but put in quotation marks --Serenity 10:12, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Edit first post, episode titles quoted instead of italicized, second bullet point reprashed and "weaseling" changed to "dodged". I don't think joining the bullet points with "this" between them is going to make this any clearer. I also don't think it's necessary, as both points may be related but analyse different things (the remaining numbers vs. Cylon naming convention). --Catrope 10:28, 18 December 2006 (CST)

I think the writers are working with established names for convenience. They may not want to create a number yet to not confuse some viewers or there may be a grand scheme of introducing more numbers later in the season or another season that involves the 5 unknown cylon models. They could be maintaining flexibility for themselves in this case. They also know that the people who care the most are us die-hard fans and they can drag us through the mud without giving us more info, but I don't think so with as generous and courteous as Ngarenn is on BW:OC.--Straycat0 11:10, 18 December 2006 (CST)

It wouldn't be too hard to introduce a new number though. We've heard plenty of statements like "We Threes think we can't take the risk.", ideal statements to introduce new numbers with. Of course these numbers aren't a big deal, but die-hard fans tend to like to know these details. --Catrope 11:37, 18 December 2006 (CST)

True. Though the more detail the introduce, the more chances they have to get it wrong. Even with the few model numbers we have revealed RDM sometimes has difficulty keeping them straight, confusing the Eight's (Sharons) with the Three's (D'annas). Either way, we'll be here, documenting. I sometimes wonder if we're (the die-hard detail documenters) aren't his worst nightmares (if we even bothers thinking about us). --Steelviper 14:52, 18 December 2006 (CST)

I always thought it was a nice nod to buckaroo banzai where all the villains had the same first name. Azselendor 22:05, 18 December 2006 (CST)

I believe it would make sense that there is a plan with rolling out the remaining agent numbers. For example, whether or not "One" is one of the missing Five has a great deal of bearing on the development of the cylon narrative, and so would be kept quiet until the episode revealing that fact. If He/She is one of the missing Five, but "Two" is not, then Two's identity (Cavil, Leoben, or Simon) also has a great deal of bearing on the narrative. Cavil has been shown using some leverage on Three. He's got my money for being Two. I think One is with the missing Five.--Viperetto13 22:58, 25 December 2006 (CST)

Question on article[edit]

When did Boomer go over to the Cylons' way of thinking? In this episode she clearly doesn't seem to think of herself as human anymore like she did in "Downloaded."

I had assumed that by LDYB, II that the Cylons had gone over to Boomer and Caprica-Six's way of thinking, hence their (C-six and Boomer) sudden rise to power as well as the sudden Cylon cease-fire. --Steelviper 11:24, 19 December 2006 (CST)

I think it's been established that somewhere along the way she realized that humans and cylons can't mix, and I believe she says something to that effect in Rapture. Where exactly this revelation came I'm not sure, or my memory is lacking, but she has had a lot of shit happen to her. On the latest podcast, Moore says they cut a lot of story on the basestar with Caprica, Hera and Boomer's surliness towards Tyrol. --Galactageek 02:19, 25 January 2007 (CST)

Hera[edit]

I cannot believe that Adm. Adama has apparently no idea what happened to Hera. He was involved in this discussion in Downloaded. He should knew that Hera and her foster mother moved to New Caprica. I am very surprised that he became so angry after Roslin told him that she kept the child in her school. --Akagi 17:21, 19 December 2006 (CST)

Adama and Roslin only agreed in "Downloaded" that Sharon cannot be allowesd raise the baby. Maybe he assumed/was told that Hera was killed by Cottle? Ausir 17:34, 19 December 2006 (CST)

That they concluded at the discussion that the child should be killed would fit with this episode events and Baltars look at the end of "Downloaded" when being chided by his internal six. However that option was mentioned onscreen and the entire tone of the conversation at that point makes it seem somewhat unlikely that this would been the final decision. Given that Baltar was never in on the adoption-plot (he apparently didn't know Hera was alive on New Caprica) and we now know Adama didn't know about it either the discussion outcome must have been either to kill the child or to postpone the decision (with Heras apparent death solving the problem). I'm quite willing to buy that Adama believed the child had died a natural death, given that complication in a hybrid between man and machine were to exspected. But I have troubles with Roslin doing it all behind Adamas back (why did she have to do that?) and Adama not making a decision whatever immediately (in Downloaded). Nevfennas 17:40, 21 December 2006 (CST)

Recent Summary Reorganization Problems[edit]

I'm normally OK about reorganization of a summary, but the recent one handled by SgtPayne creates more work and confusion. Links previously added are missing, conventions once there are missing, and the narrative flow of the summary is extremely confusing. Normally we can break up events by location (events on Galactica, basestars, planets) because they are mostly separate events that don't directly connect, but this episode has both Cylons and Colonial events occurring in response to each other and in "real-time." I am this close to rolling back the summary and adding edits made afterwards to restore both narrative flow and conventions, but I wanted comments from others first. As an admin I would just roll it back because of all the wikilinking and convention breakage, but it's more than that. Comments? --Spencerian 09:36, 20 December 2006 (CST)

This is one that I might suggest we do "Act" reporting summary. So the events are intertwined. Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 09:56, 20 December 2006 (CST)

I believe that's exactly what the summary contained before that infamous edit: a chronological report of the events in this episode. Since everything and everyone interacts with eachother and is at the same place, that would be a logical choice. --Catrope 10:03, 20 December 2006 (CST) (I hate edit conflicts)

I haven't checked it for style and links, but I agree that the summary should be chronological. Splitting up the locations is fine if they aren't related. But as you said, here they are heavily interwined and dependent on each other --Serenity 09:57, 20 December 2006 (CST)

Revert. It looked better the way it was. The new split makes for a very confusing read. --Slander 11:22, 20 December 2006 (CST)

I have reverted the article and restored relevant edits made after that reorganization. One persistant edit that I keep changing involves the "shaft of light" in the Temple as Tyrol is inspecting the symbology in the Temple. That "shaft" is Tyrol's flashlight beam. While that direct light might do something unexpected as it approaches the central target-shaped symbol, it's not coming from some mystic source within the structure. I've clarified this in the article. Contributors are always free to edit it, but its fairly clear, so analysis should be used to interpret what it might do. --Spencerian 11:48, 20 December 2006 (CST)

In light of the recent reversion, I should drop my two cents in regarding the "reorganization". When I first read the article, I felt that it was too "narrative" rather than "summary", which is what the section suggests. The consolidation was an attempt to make the information as concise as possible. I also attempted to keep as many reference links as necessary. In regards to the location split, this was done in line with previous articles, which had definitive locations. My apologies if it confused readers, but it should be said that summaries are just that, and should not be play-by-play accounts of the episode. --Sgtpayne 12:18, 20 December 2006 (CST)

The location split you introduced is good practice when there are multiple storylines that do not interfere with eachother. A nice example of that is "You Can't Go Home Again". In most episodes this is the case (end s1-begin s2 even had 3 or 4 separate storylines), but in this particular episode the three locations affect eachother so greatly that the split you introduced makes for extemely confusing reading: a bullet point in the basestar story references events told in the Galactica part, and viceverse. (Let's not even start about the Algae Planet part). --Catrope 12:45, 20 December 2006 (CST)

You bring up a good point. In trying to put it together, there were some areas where I wasn't sure where to put it. On the whole, I was looking to clean it up a bit. Trying to read it line-for-line blurs out after a while... --Sgtpayne 14:22, 20 December 2006 (CST)

I've broken up the summary into acts. It seems to solve both problems. --Spencerian 18:24, 20 December 2006 (CST)

aye. nice job. Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 18:34, 20 December 2006 (CST)

I concur. It definitely cleans up the look of the page. --Sgtpayne 22:55, 20 December 2006 (CST)

Missile Tubes[edit]

Where exactly are they and shouldnt that be an article in "Galactica Areas" Snorkel378

They are located on the dorsal side of the ship, slightly forward of the four guns ahead of the Colonial seal, and sit in two rows of six. And sure, why not create an article in that section? -Madbrood 19:12, 29 December 2006 (CST)

More Nested Analysis[edit]

The tylium planned for the mines could only come from their single Raptor. This supports the high energy yield of the fuel that, at the same time, would not sacrifice the Raptor's flight ability.
- It's also possible that the tylium used was fuel stored at the camp to power its generators and/or refuel the Raptors and other ships involved in the harvest.

Please resolve these into either one or two single-level bullets, then re-add to the article. --Steelviper 09:56, 21 December 2006 (CST)

Done. I also updated the nuke count in this section. Admiral Adama orders launch tubes four through ten loaded, which means he's prepared seven nuclear warheads, not six. --Slander 09:05, 22 December 2006 (CST)

Nicely done. Thanks! --Steelviper 09:51, 22 December 2006 (CST)

Major Point: Note that Hera is the wife of Roman God Jupiter, the derivative of the Greek Zeus. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by PhoenixFlight (talk • contribs).

Yes, Hera's counterpart in the Roman pantheon is Juno. The association is noted over many episodes to date. --Spencerian 14:22, 6 January 2007 (CST)

Playing with the date?[edit]

In Kobol's Last Gleaming, they stated the ruins on Kobol were 2000 years old, "around the time of the exodus of the 13 tribes". When they found the beacon at the Lion's Head Nebula, they said it was 3000 years old, and now they're saying the Temple of Five is at least 4000 years old. Each time they give a new date a thousand years earlier, it seems to still coincide with the exodus date of the thirteenth tribe.

Am I the only one noticing this inconsistancy?

My memory may be off, but I was under the impression that the 13th tribe left Kobol long before the other twelve. So... maybe the 13th tribe left 4k years ago, and the rest left 2k years later. Fanwankery? Spotty memory on my part? --Drumstick 02:08, 25 December 2006 (CST)

Both, sort of. The date in "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I" refers to all thirteen tribes collectively. In "A Measure of Salvation" and "The Eye of Jupiter", they refer to the thirteenth tribe alone.

Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I

Roslin: How old are the ruins?

Billy: We won't know for sure until they send a ground team, but the initial estimates have it on the order of approximately 2,000 years.

Elosha: That's around the time the thirteen tribes first left Kobol

A Measure of Salvation

Adama: According to Cottle, the virus was an exact match to one reported over 3,000 years ago. Right around the time that the Thirteenth Colony left Kobol.

The Eye of Jupiter

Tyrol: Our initial radiocarbon dating suggests that the temple's at least 4,000 years old, which lines up with the exodus of the Thirteenth Tribe.

--Peter Farago 03:16, 26 December 2006 (CST)

Here's a thought. What if this isn't an accident? We've speculated already that humanity might have emigrated from Earth to Kobol before the thirteenth tribe returned. If the further away from Kobol we get, the older the artifacts we find, what does that tell us? That the thirteenth tribe was traveling not from Kobol to Earth, but from Earth to Kobol. --Peter Farago 06:03, 28 December 2006 (CST)

Well, it may not be an accident, but the Colonials seem to think that the 13th tribe left Kobol for Earth. So why, upon finding that the artifacts get older as they journey further from Kobol/closer to Earth, would they conclude that the dating analysis confirms their scriptures? Put another way, if they dates say the tribe went from Earth to Kobol, but the scriptures say they went from Kobol to Earth, why aren't the Colonials confused? It's an interesting idea, nonetheless. --Drumstick 19:29, 31 December 2006 (CST)

Okay, it could also be that we're giving the Colonials too much credit in their dating. Elosha is a priest. Maybe her date of 2,000 is based on scripture, not fact. Also, the date of 4,000 could just mean that it predates the time that they knew the other 12 colonies left Kobol, thus it had to be built by the 13th tribe. The 13th tribe may have had outposts all throughout the galaxy while still calling Kobol home. Furthermore, since there are apparently 21,000 years of recorded history, maybe to the Colonials a few thousand years of inaccuracy in dating don't really make a difference. You could compare it to modern day humans who confuse the 15th and 16th centuries. Of course, now I'm fully in the territory of fanwanking/making up excuses. The seven months/nine months disparity with regard to the Colonial election was never even acknowledged, so there is a good possibility these inconsistent dates are just a product of sloppiness. --Drumstick 19:40, 31 December 2006 (CST)

Nut we Don't know how long it took to get everyone from earth off of kobol because it would take awhile to get huge civilizations away from a planet.Snorkel378

Dichotomy of Signs to Earth[edit]

I find it rather interesting that the first real sign to Earth that they found was a satellite/probe (first found by the Cylons). This would represent the high tech sign-post to Earth. The second sign to Earth is this hidden "Temple of Five" which is plainly a spiritual sign. Anyone else thing this is very interesting? I wonder what was on the satellite. Too bad RDM didn't allow them to examine it. Bstone 21:57, 26 December 2006 (CST)

The G-4[edit]

Hey how come in the summary it doesnt mention the G-4 about to go off right by Tyrol? Snorkel378

Unaware how events are escalating around and above him, Chief Tyrol illuminates the carved writings of the Temple with his flashlight and reads the inscriptions, trying to locate the actual resting place of the Eye. At one point, his flashlight's beam moves close to the target-shaped symbol in the center of the central spire.

How about we make that:

Having strapped explosives to the central spire of the temple, Chief Tyrol...

--Catrope 06:17, 31 December 2006 (CST)

No I mean the activation light on 1 of the explosives is blinking which means it is going to detonate.The article does not mention that. Snorkel378

There is nothing to suggest that the blinking lights don't simply mean that it is armed rather than about to explode. --Mercifull ^{(Talk/Contribs)}

Yes but the music can easily tell u what is happening and it has a danger coming sound to it-Snorkel378

Thats fanwanking. We have seen nothing to suggest that the explosives are about to detonate. All we know is that the explosives are armed and the flashing light could simply be to note that fact. You may very well be right but so far there has been no aired information to say that you are and until the next episode airs we wont know. --Mercifull ^{(Talk/Contribs)} 03:24, 3 January 2007 (CST)

You are right I geuss im some crazy kid huh :) Snorkel378

The explosives set by Tyrol and Anders in Occupation have a light that blinks, but the explosives only go off when the detonator is activated. The light is in no way indicative of and impending explosion -Madbrood 15:51, 12 January 2007 (CST)

Last name in the credits[edit]

Okay, after a month, I think I finally found the last remaining actor/character in the closing credits. Thanks to the inane sense of necessity in scrunching the credits (so they can apparently advertise the same things they do 23 times a day in normal commerical airtime) I was unable to read the last name, getting the first two through squinting and deduction. I skimmed one last time and believe I found the last, unreadable name. According to this site it's Tygh Runyan as Pvt. Byers. I looked at the guy at IMDb and although he's not given the credit (no surprise), he can be spotted in the episode. Even Tv.Yahoo, a considerably more reliable source, has him listed (sans character name). Any disagreement in adding him? I'm sure someone here has clear visual access to the credit, but I'm going through a consensus since it hasn't been added by said "someone". --Mars 00:04, 16 January 2007 (CST)

Do you have a screenshot for us to look at? Might be best to wait for it to air in HD then it will be much clearer. Alternatively ask on the Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques page. --Mercifull ^{(Talk/Contribs)} 03:27, 16 January 2007 (CST)

TYoJ Will be airing in HD over here in a few weeks, not sure about America though. MatthewFenton 03:32, 16 January 2007 (CST)

I have the iTunes copy of this: I've confirmed the same names and spelling. Do we know where he is (on the planet?). That would be enough to make a stub. --Spencerian 09:23, 16 January 2007 (CST)

I've only spotted him in one scene. It's at the start of Act 4 when Anders is dividing them up into two teams. He is among those Sam is talking to, wearing a cap and at one point, he's given an entire frame (with Anders' shoulder in the foreground). He appears mainly in a shot where he is at the very left, with Lee, Barolay, and Anders to his right. I hope that paints a good enough picture since I'm unable to get a screencap. --Mars 13:59, 16 January 2007 (CST)

Music[edit]

Could some1 tell me what was that song at the end of the episode. There were no lyrics, just music, and it was a really good choice, it shows nicely how the tension grows at the end. Plz if u know what song it is write it... TNX ;)