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:::: Laziness gets the best of all of us at times.... meh. Meanwhile, the whole reason I ever added that tag was because I thought that was what that catagory was about. Considering my lack of activity recently, amongst other factors, I'm not going to ask/demand that a catagory be created solely on my whim. [[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 08:56, 16 August 2007 (CDT) | :::: Laziness gets the best of all of us at times.... meh. Meanwhile, the whole reason I ever added that tag was because I thought that was what that catagory was about. Considering my lack of activity recently, amongst other factors, I'm not going to ask/demand that a catagory be created solely on my whim. [[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 08:56, 16 August 2007 (CDT) | ||
:::::Well, there was at least one other person who likes the idea of all wikis falling under the "Wikipedia" header. I won't restore all the sub categories, so it's no hassle. That there is some confusion about its meaning just shows that doing something about it was a good idea. And while some people are also Wikipedia editors, not all who added the category are. The intended meaning was more "Battlestar Wiki users". --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:03, 16 August 2007 (CDT) | :::::Well, there was at least one other person who likes the idea of all wikis falling under the "Wikipedia" header. I won't restore all the sub categories, so it's no hassle. That there is some confusion about its meaning just shows that doing something about it was a good idea. And while some people are also Wikipedia editors, not all who added the category are. The intended meaning was more "Battlestar Wiki users". --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:03, 16 August 2007 (CDT) | ||
== [[Troy]] --> [[Troy (1980)]] conversion == | |||
The next time you do such a conversion, it would be nice if you marked the edits as minor and specified <code><nowiki>[[Troy]] --> [[Troy (1980]]</nowiki></code> in the edit summary. That may seem like a lot of work, but if you have any browser at all you'll only have to type it out in full once. This little addition makes these trivial changes much easier to spot in [[Special:Recentchanges]]. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 15:55, 19 August 2007 (CDT) | |||
:See, above. I'm just lazy :( | |||
:But to be honest, once you checked one edit with "diff", you know what the others are all about, because they all have the same changed characters. So I don't see that it's a big mystery. You are right on the major/minor thing though. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:09, 19 August 2007 (CDT) | |||
::And you're right about the summary thing, although most users are just as lazy as you are ;) --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 16:15, 19 August 2007 (CDT) |
Revision as of 05:02, 19 September 2007
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Welcome
We look forward to your contributions to the community! ! --FrankieG 15:09, 1 September 2006 (CDT)
Minor Edits
Thanks for the information! However, your contribuation to Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques was more than just a minor edit as you indicated by clicking the "[ ] This is a minor edit" checkbox is unchecked for these types of edits. Please read up on the guidelines refering to minor edits. --Shane (T - C - E) 02:11, 14 September 2006 (CDT)
- Alright. I used it because I only added another comment to an existing one. In the future I shall only use for typos and formatting :) --Serenity 02:17, 14 September 2006 (CDT)
Gateworld
Gateworld is not consider a valid source. In this case, this episode info probably is from casting sides which may or may not be "interpreted" correctly and even the title could change. Just want you to know this is "SOP", and not being vindicative or the such. --FrankieG 15:25, 16 September 2006 (CDT)
- Oh noes /o\
While it's somewhat surprising to get such a relatively big summary, I thought they were pretty accurate in the past. Of course things can still change, but the pages can be edited then.
Next time I won't post anything...--Serenity 15:30, 16 September 2006 (CDT)- Don't know the link offhand, but find the "official sources", like interviews with the crew or cast, or from Sci-Fi, or Bradley's page, episode info from those sources are more than welcome. I know it's kinda strict, but you know how to do it now ;), so if you find official info, go for it. If you want to do the reverts, go ahead. --FrankieG 15:36, 16 September 2006 (CDT)
- The sucky thing is that official info could come out and we have to it over again. Personally, the episode itself sounds kinda sucky (is sucky a real word?). Thanks for doing the reverts. --FrankieG 15:45, 16 September 2006 (CDT)
- I find the premise kinda interesting and have been waiting for something like that already. It's that Doctor King dude that sounds a bit iffy. Like "evil doctor with a horrible secret"
I guess we could ask Bradley Thompson if there is some truth to it --Serenity 15:50, 16 September 2006 (CDT)- The problem with using the Gateworld info is that this may not be the "main" plotline or another plotline adds to this story. However, it does add "realism" to the series, much like the need for food later in the first half of the season. --FrankieG 15:57, 16 September 2006 (CDT)
- I find the premise kinda interesting and have been waiting for something like that already. It's that Doctor King dude that sounds a bit iffy. Like "evil doctor with a horrible secret"
- The sucky thing is that official info could come out and we have to it over again. Personally, the episode itself sounds kinda sucky (is sucky a real word?). Thanks for doing the reverts. --FrankieG 15:45, 16 September 2006 (CDT)
- Don't know the link offhand, but find the "official sources", like interviews with the crew or cast, or from Sci-Fi, or Bradley's page, episode info from those sources are more than welcome. I know it's kinda strict, but you know how to do it now ;), so if you find official info, go for it. If you want to do the reverts, go ahead. --FrankieG 15:36, 16 September 2006 (CDT)
Google Talk
May I send you a google talk invite? Email me at gougef at gmail dot com . Thanks. --FrankieG 16:04, 16 September 2006 (CDT)
- I don't use that program :)
In fact I don' t have any IM installed atm, but I used to use ICQ --Serenity 16:17, 16 September 2006 (CDT)- I can yell at u RA anyway :) just thought I'd ask because we had headed off into speculation (and spoilishism - new word I just made ;) ) No problemo. --FrankieG 16:22, 16 September 2006 (CDT)
- If you have ICQ, that'd be an option. I don't have it installed right now, but it's a program I'd have more use for than Google Talk. And how about "spoilerism"? --Serenity 16:31, 16 September 2006 (CDT)
- Google talk is a really simple program. unlike other chat software. When I get time we can try ICQ. We talk about a chat channel for the wiki before but never took it anywhere. Actually, spoilerism - addiction to spoilers :). --FrankieG 16:41, 16 September 2006 (CDT)
- A chat would be cool. I don't think many people here have mIRC but I could set up a channel on a server if wanted. Some type of web-based Java applet would be better for new people though, even if more frustrating for IRC veterans --Serenity 16:55, 16 September 2006 (CDT)
- Google talk is a really simple program. unlike other chat software. When I get time we can try ICQ. We talk about a chat channel for the wiki before but never took it anywhere. Actually, spoilerism - addiction to spoilers :). --FrankieG 16:41, 16 September 2006 (CDT)
- If you have ICQ, that'd be an option. I don't have it installed right now, but it's a program I'd have more use for than Google Talk. And how about "spoilerism"? --Serenity 16:31, 16 September 2006 (CDT)
- I can yell at u RA anyway :) just thought I'd ask because we had headed off into speculation (and spoilishism - new word I just made ;) ) No problemo. --FrankieG 16:22, 16 September 2006 (CDT)
Rollback
I did a rollback to Occupation from Peter's last version. Alot of the changes were discussed before you edit. Plus the population is something that was know we can't keep track. Our edits where merged during my rollback so I will go back threw it and make sure nothing was removed. --Shane (T - C - E) 16:10, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
- I didn't do that intentionally. That was a complete accident. I wanted to edit something and - I think - used a link from the comparison page and thus edited an older version. Or something. Stupid n00b mistake :( --Serenity 16:14, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
- Didn't there used to be some kind of edit conflict warning when you submitted an edit from an old diff? --Peter Farago 16:23, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
Thanks
Hi, just saw that you moved a comment of mine from Exodus Part II to Part I for me, per my mistake. Nice to see someone not just make the easy correction, to revert, but to make sure the information gets to the right place. - Keithustus 12:17, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
New Caprica
Thanks for your help cleaning up New Caprica. --Peter Farago 18:36, 29 October 2006 (CST)
- No problem. I thought that the last part was kind of a duplicate of the "Battle of New Caprica" article, but wasn't sure how far to cut it down --Serenity 18:48, 29 October 2006 (CST)
- Feel free to cut it down further, if you want. --Peter Farago 20:07, 29 October 2006 (CST)
RFA
I created an RFA for you here. Please drop by to either accept it or decline it. --Steelviper 09:38, 2 January 2007 (CST)
- Sorry, I thought that counted as acceptance instead of vote... --Serenity 10:38, 2 January 2007 (CST)
- No problem. I knew what you meant. And we don't really have these things often enough for people to really get "used" to them. So it's always a learning experience around here (and always has been). --Steelviper 10:41, 2 January 2007 (CST)
Congrats!
Congrats! You are now an administrator! You may want to read over the Wikipedia:Administrators' how-to guide from Wikipedia to learn more about the tools in the janitor's closet, headquarters for the Mop Boy. Obviously, if you have any questions or need to confer with your fellow administrators, do feel free to do so. Thank you for taking on the task! -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate 19:06, 9 January 2007 (CST)
- Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shane (T - C - E) 19:40, 9 January 2007 (CST)
- Ha-ha! A new Mop Boy! And just in time for mid-season cleanup! --Spencerian 19:55, 9 January 2007 (CST)
- Congrats, Serenity. --Talos 21:34, 9 January 2007 (CST)
- Well deserved! Congratulations! --JubalHarshaw 01:28, 10 January 2007 (CST)
- Congrats, Serenity. --Talos 21:34, 9 January 2007 (CST)
- Ha-ha! A new Mop Boy! And just in time for mid-season cleanup! --Spencerian 19:55, 9 January 2007 (CST)
- Good timing, gratz :) --Mercifull (Talk/Contribs) 03:06, 10 January 2007 (CST)
- Congratulations, my friend :) -Madbrood 06:25, 10 January 2007 (CST)
Well deserved, congratulations --lordmutt 06:28, 10 January 2007 (CST)
- Congrats. --Steelviper 07:06, 10 January 2007 (CST)
- Thanks :) --Serenity 09:14, 10 January 2007 (CST)
Season 3
Think ya have the strength to update the refs to the cite tags? Shane (T - C - E) 18:44, 11 January 2007 (CST)
- What do you mean excactly? Episode cites in the "major plot lines" section? --Serenity 18:50, 11 January 2007 (CST)
Me fail English...
Thats unpossible --Mercifull (Talk/Contribs) 05:58, 29 January 2007 (CST)
- Maybe you meant to say that he "combed"...something, and forgot the "b". That can happen ;) --Serenity 06:05, 29 January 2007 (CST)
Joe
Actually I just created a page for Joe that's why :) --Mercifull (Talk/Contribs) 16:06, 30 January 2007 (CST)
- Doh, sorry. I didn't see that :( Though to be honest, I don't see we can't just combine Joe and his bar. I'm not a big fan of micro articles if they can be avoided, and all that's at Joe was merely copied from the bar article. We just don't know anything about him (yet) --Serenity 16:39, 30 January 2007 (CST)
Rollback on Anthony Figurski
Figurski's line, paraphrasing, is: "It takes Adama two seconds to sign off on an order..." After watching the episode three times, I'm certain that Adama is specifically mentioned. --Spencerian 09:10, 23 February 2007 (CST)
- Sorry :( You're right. I thought it said "it takes an officer two seconds..." --Serenity 09:29, 23 February 2007 (CST)
Lt.
I have some Sscreenshots of the credits of the episodes that Larmaque sent me. I'll send them to you. That's why Lt. is there. Shane (T - C - E) 11:20, 12 March 2007 (CDT)
- Mhh, interesting. But an error. The episode credits have been known to be wrong before. Like the Edmonson/Edmondson thing. Putting her rank a Lt. based on the credits is absurd. Her rank is stated as 'Petty Officer, 2nd Class' in "Bastille Day" for example. She wears PO2 rank insignia and the green enlisted uniform. Her promotion to Lieutenant (and to an officer in general) came with her transfer to Pegasus, following the discovery of New Caprica. --Serenity 11:44, 12 March 2007 (CDT)
Racetrack comment
I think there's a difference between her always running at the first sign verses following her orders. She's a raptor pilot and her main tasks are to do recon and to bug out once spotted or if important data had been gathered and must be brought to HQ asap. To make it look like she's a runner all the time isn't true, even the episodes that you cited are examples of her performing her job the way that she was suppose to. Besides maybe her first appearance when the raptor was inside a baseship, she's just shown the wisdom to know when to run.
Plus, if I can tell, this episode is not the first time she bugged out when an imminent danger was present. In Torn, they left the baseship just in time before it exploded. In Dirty Hands, she and her ECO ejected right before the Raptor crashed into Colonial One.
If you want to put it down that she has a knack of getting out of hairy situations at the last possible moment, that's fine, just try not to make it look like she's a coward. She's just doing her job and doing it pretty well I would say. --LifeStar 12:22, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
- You could have replied to this on your talk page. I'm not trying to make her into a coward. I'm not even saying she did anything wrong. You are just reading that into it. It's just a pattern in her actions. But I think she wasn't in any immediate danger in "Kobol's Last Gleaming" or "Torn". So saying that she escapes serious danger all the time is wrong IMO. That only goes for "Dirty Hands" (where it's ejection and not an FTL jump anyways) and "Crossroads". --Serenity 12:29, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
My RFA
Boom!
http://www.jwgh.org/Trips/Russia/pictures/cannon.JPG --Mercifull (Talk/Contribs) 04:30, 9 May 2007 (CDT)
- Holy frak. Is that near your place? --Catrope(Talk to me or e-mail me) 08:44, 9 May 2007 (CDT)
- Judging from the address (/Trips/Russia/pictures/) it is probably in Russia. --Steelviper 08:59, 9 May 2007 (CDT)
- Right, didn't see that. --Catrope(Talk to me or e-mail me) 09:27, 9 May 2007 (CDT)
- Judging from the address (/Trips/Russia/pictures/) it is probably in Russia. --Steelviper 08:59, 9 May 2007 (CDT)
- Nice cannon. The canon/cannon mistake just cries for a pic like that. :) --Serenity 12:16, 9 May 2007 (CDT)
- If I'm not mistaken, that's that big Tsar Cannon in Moscow. --Talos 17:06, 9 May 2007 (CDT)
- Indeed it is the Tsar Cannon :D --Mercifull (Talk/Contribs) 03:32, 10 May 2007 (CDT)
- If I'm not mistaken, that's that big Tsar Cannon in Moscow. --Talos 17:06, 9 May 2007 (CDT)
{{bsgwiki term}}
I created this a while ago to shorten the process. Shane (T - C - E) 07:15, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
- Ok, will keep it in mind. But I just copy-pasted that stuff, so it wasn't really a big deal :) --Serenity 07:18, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
Archive Bot test?
May I? :) Shane (T - C - E) 18:00, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
- On this page? Sure. Btw, Talk:Uniforms (RDM) is missing the TOC thing at the top. --Serenity 18:40, 16 June 2007 (CDT)
Helps. It notices they are bad links... and it has to compensate for that. Shane (T - C - E) 17:05, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
- Ah right. Totally forgot about that :s --Serenity 17:30, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
User Amfulay
Move is done. Please let the user know that the name has been changed by email just in case they don't immediately return. --Spencerian
- Yeah, I saw it. I emailed him already, saying that it will be taken care of. --Serenity 17:19, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
Singular nouns
Just so you know, something like Pegasus' is actually allowed in modern English, although it's still pronounced as Pegasus's. The s-less form is a more recent development, and I agree with you that Pegasus's is more consistent. Pegasus', however ugly, is allowed, though. --Catrope(Talk to me or e-mail me) 15:41, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
- Mhhh, alright. But we use apostrophe-s for its plural here, so it's better to stick to that. --Serenity 15:46, 25 June 2007 (CDT)
Deletions
Please, please, PLEASE do not delete articles stating "per consensus on talk page" or similar, and delete the talk page mere seconds later. Not only is this very confusing for non-sysops who haven't seen the full discussion (e.g. me), it's also policy to leave the talk page intact, per this discussion. Please restore Talk:Threa Sita (and move it to Talk:Thera Sita) and Talk:Apple iPatch. Also, you might wanna see Threa Sita/Thwhatever Sita which has slightly more content (you might wanna merge some stuff). --Catrope(Talk to me or e-mail me) 06:07, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
- Yeah, I wasn't sure if this policy is officially in effect already. Sorry. :(
- I don't have time now, but I will get to it later. And I left out that content deliberately, because it's just retelling the episode. --Serenity 06:12, 2 July 2007 (CDT)
Citing
OK, cool! Just one question though. I've tried using the template you mentioned but the number of the citing wasn't correct. It should have been 13 but came out 6, or something like that. Any idea where I might have gone wrong? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Helo87 (talk • contribs).
- The numbering is caused by the ref tags and done automatically. It depends on the order of the references. If you insert a reference somewhere inbetween, the others after it will change, so you can't really influence it the way you want. But there is no need to worry about it, as the exact number of a reference doesn't really matter. Just that it has one. --Serenity 18:18, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
Joe's Bar
Thanks for the add on the Crew facilities page on Joe's Bar...I was trying to remember other times it had been used for other things and I was WAY too tired to be thinking about anything!--RUSnooky 10:14, 10 July 2007 (CDT)
- No problem. :) The refugee camp is technically another use, but I don't think it should go here, as it's for the civilians and not the crew. --Serenity 10:21, 10 July 2007 (CDT)
- I had the exact same thought. If we do that I think we'd have to add the launch tubes as execution chambers too :)--RUSnooky 11:19, 10 July 2007 (CDT)
Archiving
It's good you're adding the ArchiveBot to pages, but you should make sure the archive points to Talk:(insertpagehere), not User_Talk:Serenity. If you don't make sure of that, pages like Talk:Crossroads, Part II would be put into an archive on your user talk page. --BklynBruzer 20:38, 13 July 2007 (CDT)
- EEEEEEEEEEEEK!!!! I copied the code from my page. Thanks for reminding me. Thankfully the bot isn't always on :) --Serenity 04:59, 14 July 2007 (CDT)
Copy/Paste
What'd I do wrong on the copy paste for GuyIncognito? I saw where it dropped a lot of it into the comments section on recent changes, but something else I need to know?--RUSnooky 10:23, 16 July 2007 (CDT)
- You copied it from your user page, right? Because instead of his user name, yours was there :) Btw, you can just use a the template {{welcome|Username}} instead.
- But it's not as bad as my recent copy/paste job where I accidentally told the archive bot to archive several pages to my own talk page. Fortunately it wasn't running. --Serenity 10:30, 16 July 2007 (CDT)
- Yeah, I just noticed that I was answering his question about fanfiction. What a dumbass I am. Maybe nexttime I write to you I'll sign it Serentiy :)--RUSnooky 10:32, 16 July 2007 (CDT)
- Don't worry. Nothing bad happened. Just use the welcome template next time. Less work anyways :) --Serenity 10:36, 16 July 2007 (CDT)
- Yeah, I just noticed that I was answering his question about fanfiction. What a dumbass I am. Maybe nexttime I write to you I'll sign it Serentiy :)--RUSnooky 10:32, 16 July 2007 (CDT)
Thanks!
Thanks for the quick revert and block on the misguided sap. The person in question has attempted to get under my skin for sometime now -- which in itself is extremely sad, actually, and rather hilarious to boot! Much obliged. :-) -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate - Sanctuary Wiki — New 14:56, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
- Dude's an ass. Jealousy perhaps? -- Veepz 15:04, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
- I likely banned the person in question from WP during my active period there. He probably has nothing better to do. -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate - Sanctuary Wiki — New 15:13, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
- The guy's definitely got some nerve, vandalizing your user page. Pity for him anons don't get move rights, or you would've been at User:Loser or User:Pornlover right now ;) --Catrope(Talk to me or e-mail me) 15:49, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
- I likely banned the person in question from WP during my active period there. He probably has nothing better to do. -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate - Sanctuary Wiki — New 15:13, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
- Ewww stalkers. I guess those aren't losers at all. He really owned you there. ;) --Serenity 16:14, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
- ROFL! :-) Again, I'm most amused by this. Particularly since it's all ancient history at this point. -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate - Sanctuary Wiki — New 16:19, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
Edit
I think you need to edit the welcome template some more, I can't do it. It says "by enter fouring tides". Perhaps "by entering four tides" would be better? -- Veepz 16:25, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
- Frak! Thanks for telling me. Cursor must have jumped somehow :( --Serenity 16:28, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
- Hehe, no worries, it has happened to me on numerous occasions. :-) -- Veepz 16:30, 31 July 2007 (CDT)
Wikipedian
Um, why am I no longer a wikipedian? Durandal 08:33, 16 August 2007 (CDT)
- Because we decided that we are not really Wikipedians and so the category was changed to "Galactipedian". That happened in June already. I just got around to changing the users who added the category by hand and so weren't affected by the automatic change. --Serenity 08:35, 16 August 2007 (CDT)
- Duly noted. Meanwhile, as I happen to be (at least in theory) a wikipedian and a galactipedian, I will be re-adding the former. As a side note, it might be a good idea to acutally use the summary field in such cases, as it cuts down on the "HUH?" moments... TheEverRampant Durandal 08:40, 16 August 2007 (CDT)
- Yeah, but it wasn't just you I changed as Special:Recentchanges shows. So not making an edit summary for all was just laziness :(
- I understand that you might see yourself as a Wikipedian in the sense as being on the actual Wikipedia, but that's not really what the category was about. It was just users of this wiki and merely used the Wikipedia name. I deleted the category, but I can restore without all the sub categories, so people who think they are true Wikipedians can use it. --Serenity 08:45, 16 August 2007 (CDT)
- Laziness gets the best of all of us at times.... meh. Meanwhile, the whole reason I ever added that tag was because I thought that was what that catagory was about. Considering my lack of activity recently, amongst other factors, I'm not going to ask/demand that a catagory be created solely on my whim. Durandal 08:56, 16 August 2007 (CDT)
- Well, there was at least one other person who likes the idea of all wikis falling under the "Wikipedia" header. I won't restore all the sub categories, so it's no hassle. That there is some confusion about its meaning just shows that doing something about it was a good idea. And while some people are also Wikipedia editors, not all who added the category are. The intended meaning was more "Battlestar Wiki users". --Serenity 09:03, 16 August 2007 (CDT)
- Laziness gets the best of all of us at times.... meh. Meanwhile, the whole reason I ever added that tag was because I thought that was what that catagory was about. Considering my lack of activity recently, amongst other factors, I'm not going to ask/demand that a catagory be created solely on my whim. Durandal 08:56, 16 August 2007 (CDT)
- Duly noted. Meanwhile, as I happen to be (at least in theory) a wikipedian and a galactipedian, I will be re-adding the former. As a side note, it might be a good idea to acutally use the summary field in such cases, as it cuts down on the "HUH?" moments... TheEverRampant Durandal 08:40, 16 August 2007 (CDT)
Troy --> Troy (1980) conversion
The next time you do such a conversion, it would be nice if you marked the edits as minor and specified [[Troy]] --> [[Troy (1980]]
in the edit summary. That may seem like a lot of work, but if you have any browser at all you'll only have to type it out in full once. This little addition makes these trivial changes much easier to spot in Special:Recentchanges. --Catrope(Talk to me or e-mail me) 15:55, 19 August 2007 (CDT)
- See, above. I'm just lazy :(
- But to be honest, once you checked one edit with "diff", you know what the others are all about, because they all have the same changed characters. So I don't see that it's a big mystery. You are right on the major/minor thing though. --Serenity 16:09, 19 August 2007 (CDT)
- And you're right about the summary thing, although most users are just as lazy as you are ;) --Catrope(Talk to me or e-mail me) 16:15, 19 August 2007 (CDT)