Talk:The Hub/Archive 1

Ask a new question or begin a new discussion by clicking here.

Picture

Where is it from? Are there more? -- Noneofyourbusiness 20:20, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

http://www.bsg.cz/4-09-hub-promofotky-3 -- Serenity 20:22, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! I wonder why there are none for Sine Qua Non so far. -- Noneofyourbusiness 23:14, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Can anyone identify the gun Cavil is holding there? OTW 14:55, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Looks like a Walther PPK actually...the shape of it is a dead giveaway. -- Fordsierra4x4 09:55, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Maybe we should change the picture; unless I missed it (which seems unlikely, as I pay extra attention when Cavil's on screen), that scene didn't make the final cut of the episode. Something from the episode would be nice: the Hub, D'Anna, maybe even Elosha. Alpha5099 02:28, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Read my mind. :) -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus} 03:40, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

The The

The SciFi website omits the preceeding "The" from the episode title. Just bringing it up because I'm of a lower class with no ability to move pages and the such. --Mars 11:47, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

"The Hub" was confirmed by Bradley Thompson, so I guess it's the correct title. --Catrope^{(Talk to me or e-mail me)} 15:08, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

NBC Universal's Media Village says "Hub", too, and they were right with the one-L "Traveled", too. "Hub" would be a painfully dull title, though. --Pedda 16:35, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

How did these two sites report "The Road Less Traveled"? With our without the "the"? In this case, it's obviously a Biblical quote and the "The" is clearly supposed to be there. And yeah, no one in their right mind would call an episode "Hub". --Catrope^{(Talk to me or e-mail me)} 18:10, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

no one in their right mind would call an episode "Hub". – Eh... why not? –Sasoriza 03:48, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

The episode is titled "The Hub"... we knew this months ago, thanks to our own source. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus} 03:48, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Teaser

I'm sure anyone who's seen this knows by now, but just in case... In the teaser from "Sine Qua Non", D'anna says something like "You didn't know you were one of the final five", then' Laura Roslin is shown. I avoid spoiler blogs & the like, so I don't know: Intentional, or too obvious? –Sasoriza 04:04, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

That could easily be some clever editing. As we saw in Sine Qua Non, the conversation between Tigh and Adama was much longer before Tigh hit Adama, but the preview made it look like Tigh hits him right after Adama asks him what he was thinking re: C-Six. There are no guarantees that those two share a scene in the episode, but we'll just have to wait and see. --Kevin W.^{•So say we all} 18:00, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah. Drawing anything from this is completely ridiculous. Promos are often very misleading. Sometimes deliberately, but often there just isn't the time to convey any real meaning. -- Serenity 18:06, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

IMO she's probably talking to Anders. -- Gordon Ecker 03:47, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't think Anders is there. I think she's messing with Roslin. We know they share scenes. -- Noneofyourbusiness 04:15, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Anders ain't anywhere, it seems... Odd. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus} 03:27, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Callum Keith Rennie is in the episode

He appears right at the beginning, when everyone is still kind of hanging around the hybrid.

You're right. He doesn't have any lines though. Also, I'm pretty sure that's the same footage from the episode where they first jump away. I guess they couldn't get him for the episode, but he got credit for standing around he'd done already. I don't have the earlier episode on me right now. Can anyone confirm that is the same scene (and not a reshoot), and then we can update the details about CKR's absence. Alpha5099 02:28, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

The scenes are from "Guess What's Coming For Dinner?"... there's nothing new there. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus} 03:29, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Rebuilding the hub?

> Why do the Cylons have only one Resurrection Hub and the implied inability to build another? > Are the Cylons capable of building a new Hub, and if so, how long it would it take them?

My personal theory is - they can have more than one, and they can rebuild it, but it takes considerable time and resources, too much to have another one ready before the end of the war.

On the other hand - maybe it is possible to modify / reconfigure Res Ships to not require the Hub to coordinate them?

Lilianne Blaze 04:34, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Maybe the reason the cylons cannot rebuild it, is because it was built by whoever pogrammed/created the humanoid cylons in the first place, and they just weren't implanted with the knowledge required (similar to the knowledge of the final five). This may be evidenced by the fact that the resurrection facilities share a different design "philosophy" than the rest of the cylon fleet. Raziel Anarki 15:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I though about that too, but somehow it just doesn't fit. I think operating / maintaining the resurrection ships, especially growing the spare bodies, keeping them in perfect condition and ready when needed, would require enough knowledge to rebuild it. Also note the resurrection ships are clearly both an important target and a limited resource, but there are no implications that they can't be rebuild. Cylons are able to dumb down the Raiders and smart up the Centurions, so it's not like they only use what they have, they obviously know a lot, even if not all, of their own inner workings. As for the knowledge of the final five - I think they have it, it's just repressed somehow, waiting for a trigger. I suspect when confronted with hard evidence they'll know "just like that". Yes, I do realize these aren't exactly strong arguments. Lilianne Blaze 13:31, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Airlocked?

How come this page wasn't kept airlocked until the British release date, but Sine Qua Non was kept airlocked until the American and Canadian release date? I thought the entire point was to keep the page locked down until the episode had been fully released. Doesn't this portray double standards? Otterstat 10:07, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

The episode was first released on Friday in America, not on Tuesday. (SciFi told SkyOne to not release the episode early... long story.) The point of locking down the pages is to prevent multiple people from bum-rushing the episode page after it had aired with edits, which degrades the performance of the wiki's server. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus} 13:59, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Aye I know, and the British release date has been pushed back to Tuesday, so the roles are exactly reversed - what I'm saying is that last week the page was locked until the episode had aired in America, but this week it was unlocked straight after it was aired in America despite not having been aired in Britain yet. I thought another reason it was airlocked until the episode had aired in both areas was: "Locking articles give everyone a chance to watch the episode before a wiki visit could spoil that." I'm just a bit confused as to why it's been un-locked prior to the episode being aired in Britain, is all. Edit: To follow on from this, does this mean it is okay in the future for me to un-airlock a page if it has been aired in Britain first but not America and Canada? Because that's basically what happened here... Otterstat 14:07, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Let me put it to you this way, just over half of our audience is American. The other half is oversees, with less than a quarter of that half being from the UK. We actually get a lot more traffic from Canada and Germany than we do the UK...

Further, we always airlocked the pages for the American airings, because that's when the Wiki is hardest hit... after US airings. Not UK airings. And, actually, "Sine Qua Non" proved that, because the traffic was more evenly distributed between the two air dates for that episode. You can see some of this statistical data for yourself here. Also, to answer your question, you don't have the permissions needed to lock our unlock pages; that's an ability only the chiefs have. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus} 22:24, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

psych!

Can we get Three's joke at Laura's expense in the Notable Dialogue section? I can't remember it word by word myself. OTW 21:25, 8 June 2008 (UTC)`

There we go. What an amazing moment. If there's any problems with how I formatted it, feel free to tweak it. Alpha5099 23:49, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Deleted scene or misplaced promo image?

I don't remember seeing Cavil holding a gun or wearing a hat, and we have had production number related misunderstandings before. Do we know that this image is from The Hub (episode 9, production number 411) and not Sometimes a Great Notion (episode 11, production number 413)? -- Gordon Ecker 03:22, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

It's not a mistake. This is not the first time that promo images from (later) deleted scenes were released. For example "Torn" had one or two with Doral, Boomer, Six and Hera in a church, and "A Measure of Salvation" had a scene with Thrace interrogating Leoben. They are on the DVDs and summarized here. We should chose a different picture, but the other promo pics for the episode aren't really any good. -- Serenity 12:42, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I can grab something from the HD version... Any ideas? -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus} 15:48, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Maybe a wide shot of the Cylon and human pilots assembling? -- Serenity 08:18, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Accessing other's memories

• In the Analysis section there is this:

"....However, earlier in Season 1, Agathon somehow has access to Sharon "Boomer" Valerii's memories, but was never killed or resurrected in the Miniseries. There is no explanation for this, other than an inference that Cylons can share memories outside of the actual download and resurrection process; how Valerii was able to do this after leaving Caprica is unknown."

----

It is right we never heard in the series how the then Caprica Sharon, now Sharon "Athena" Agathon, got a hold of Sharon "Boomer" Valerii's memories but I think it is not much of a leap to say that as a undercover infiltration agent Valerii was killed a number of times at regular intevals by the Cylons off screen probably during her shore leaves. Tyrol and Valerii had a torrid relation ship for a long while before the attack we know. Valerii had been stationed on Galactica for two years prior to the attack, that is plenty of time to kill her repeatedly. We have seen how the Cylons were blasé about death and resurrection. Remember how the Three in the bombed parking garage casually offered to Caprica Six to kill her because C-6 had a broken leg? If they could do that then no big deal; just kill Boomer, her memories download in to the communal repository (as well as a new body) and send her off again thinking she was human. Meanwhile have the future Athena absorb somehow Boomer's memories. Now the question is how does a living Cylon absorb the downloaded memories. In fact, I think I will put that up as a new question. Does Athena-or the Eight in The Hub-have to die first? Of course we will have to wait to see it in the series for these questions can be answered in canon. Hunter2005 06:04, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, this does not explain how Agathon has Valerii's memories of abandoning Karl Agathon on Caprica. There's really no wiggle room there for her to "die", particularly as she lifts off with a bunch of survivors, including Boxey. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus} 06:11, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

It depends on the wording and context. Did she say that as a cover story? It could be, and I sure it is, as simple as other Cylon agents could had seen Helo and their agent Boomer part after he gave up his seat to Baltar and they told Athena by simple conversation about Boomer leaving Helo behind. We have seen the other Cylons observe Helo and they did report to each other verbally so I think it can be easy said that The Cylons simply told Athena just like a normal human would tell another human. I have to see either the scene or the transcript of the scene to be sure. What episode was that scene in? Hunter2005 06:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Athena didn't verbally claim to have Boomer's memories of leaving Helo behind, she had a flashback to it. Boomer could conceivably have been killed sometime before returning with the refinery ship to the fleet, followed by a Raider, but we don't know if that's necessary. -- Noneofyourbusiness 23:25, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

What episode was that? The flashback I mean. And what episode was the refinery ship she was coming back from in (I remember a lot but have forgotten a lot too). I'll check. Hunter2005 01:47, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

The former, Flesh and Bone. The latter, the Miniseries. -- Noneofyourbusiness 04:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! I will check it out. Hunter2005 05:11, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Apologies for not discovering this discussion earlier, but I added" Flesh and Bone" (20 mins in) for the flashback and also "Home, Part II" (15 mins in) as Agathon's verbal description of having Boomer's memories. These seem to be the exceptions - in the later series, it's a "download only" thing. Serenity, you say "Scar" is also relevant? -- Xlynx 17:47, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Depends on what you mean by relevant. It's just a very obvious example where she recalls Boomer's memories. Specifically her time as pilot on Galactica ("Yeah, I remember. You were like a big sister to..."). This is just about a few examples to illustrate the point. There may be more, but more than two or three aren't really necessary to say that such a thing did happen. It's not even necessary to find the earliest ones. But just listing the episodes and saying "earlier in the series" is probably better than just "in Season 1" -- Serenity 17:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Again I have to answer someone through another person but it is necessary. To:"Xlynx" and "Noneofyourbusiness": I checked out the Flashback scene in "Flesh and Bone" of Caprica Sharon (Athena) running through the forest back to Helo after she was given orders to either settle down with him on Caprica of kill him. During her run back there was a montage of scenes. All of them were Athena's memories of her on Caprica with Helo-except one. The one is when she is depicted taking off in the Raptor leaving Helo behind. That was supposed to be Sharon "Boomer" Valerii, not the future Athena. However, not to be difficult, that could had been a production error since it is so brief and so far the only example. Is there another example if so then one can start to say it means something but I admit it is there.

As to the when she was in her sell in Home, part II of her reminiscing with Starbuck in her cell, sure she has Boomer's memories of Starbuck being a big sister to her no one disputes that Cylons shared memories; it was HOW they do it. In this case the "Big Sister" memory of Boomer's there is nothing to specifiy when that memory happened. It could had happened anytime before the attack in the two years Boomer was stationed on Galactica and Athena could had accessed Boomer's "Big Sister" memories any time before the attack as well. Boomer's memories as I said in and earlier post could had been downloaded in to a master database at regular intervals when Boomer was killed regularly delivering, unbeknownst to her, progress reports, so where her memories of Tyrol. Athena had plenty of time to access those.

What makes the brief flashback scene of Athena taking off and leaving Boomer behind on Caprica is that there wasn't apparently enough time for Boomer to be killed in transit with Baltar & co. to Galactica and download her memories for Athena to absorb and Boomer to rejoin the fleet, but I said it could be a production error. Now I was told by "Serenity" that Boomer was sent to a refinery ship after dropping off Baltar and the other passengers on Galactica. That would be on Day 1 or 2 of the attack I think. The Flashback scenes Athena was having on Caprica as she ran though the forest happened on day 25. It is conceivable that Boomer was killed between heading to or back from the refinery ship, downloading and then the Cylon repositioned with her new body to fly back to Galactica.

It is all a matter of timing. We have to track both Boomer's and Athena's movements in the first few days after the attack very carefully (it would only be a few days since Boomer would had had to stay with the Fleet at some point). Meanwhile until more evidence emerges either way I still lean to the explanation of a production error. Some editor got their Eights confused LOL! Hunter2005 03:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

It has often been implied that the Cylons have some easy (and invisible) way of sharing information with other members of their model. See Precipice#Analysis where Athena comments "I'm not wired in. It doesn't work like that". When Boomer was a sleeper agent she could have been "wired in" without knowing it. Alternatively, another Cylon infiltrator in the fleet could somehow have accessed her memories and transmitted them at opportune moments. Alternatively, the part of Boomer who knew she was a Cylon could have transmitted information during the moments she was "at the helm". I don't think it has ever been implied that death and resurrection is a necessary precondition for the sharing of memories. Haukurth 21:55, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I think there just was in The Hub itself that death is necessary when the Eight told Helo she accessed Athena's memories after her last download. I believe that is what the then called Caprica Sharon (Athena) meant when she told Roslin that "....it doesn't work like that." The way it work is that a Cylon has to die download into the communal data bank and then the curious Cylon could absorb the resurrecting Cylons memories. I myself believe they have to stick their hand into a data stream just like they do when monitoring the Hybrid (and when Young William Adama in Razor stuck his hand in that primitive Cylon resurrection tank like pool just before the First Cylon War ended).

I read the Precipice Analysis and there is no evidence of a wireless transmittable way for Cylons to share memories at a distance, just a lot of speculation without evidence. If the Cylons could share info ESP like then Pegasus wouldn't had been so successful in their hit and run tactics against the Cylons with Gina on board; also Gina after she excaped could had told where Galactica was with out setting off a nuke.

Galactica be wouldn't had been able to hide even for a while with the Doral, Leoben and D'anna Biers in the fleet or an extended period of time. Instead, in the original miniseries they relied on a transmitter that Gaeta found that wasn't familiar equipment.

The Cylons in the movie theater on Caprica wouldn't had to rely on using Raiders to relay footage of Athena giving birth to know that she was alive. They would had known that by taping into D'anna's memory of her seeing her.

Now the Hybrid has some ESP powers because it sensed the distress of Natalie being shot and as the Eight said panicked and JUMP!(ed). Also humanoid Cylons can vaguely sense when their own kind is near, like how Caprica Six told Roslin that the Final Five was in the fleet but can't tell she was making love to one (Tigh). Similarly (almost) Athena couldn't tell Anders and Tyrol were two of the Finals when she spoke to the rookie Anders when they were about to go into battle in the nebula. However, I do concede that the Finals are different from the recently created Cylons, but then there is this case most tellingly: When the Fleet captured a Cavil after he came back from Caprica with the Caprican Resistance and Anders. He couldn't tell that they already had another One in custody (the one that consoled the troubled Tyrol). He tried to maintain his innocence until they opened a door and there he sat, the jig was up. All this tells me they can't anymore read each other's minds-even their own model's minds-anymore than we can. "It doesn't work like that." Hunter2005 01:24, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I think there just was in The Hub itself that death is necessary when the Eight told Helo she accessed Athena's memories after her last download. Death and resurrection may be a sufficient condition without being a necessary one. Haukurth 08:44, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

None of this evidence refutes the possibility of voluntary memory sharing through datastream terminals or physical contact. -- Gordon Ecker 01:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Could it be possible for two live Cylons to stick their hands in a data stream and absorb each other's memories? Sure, but my point and I think the point of the analysis was whether they had ESP like abilities. They didn't and circumstances say they don't. As for them being touch telepaths we have seen no evidence specifically to prevent that possibility but we also have seen no evidence to support it either. At least we have the evidence of them controlling the Hybrid with the data stream and my example of young William Adama putting his hand in a Cylon tank to support the possibility of them sharing memories like that. We have seen them talking among themselves like normal people sharing ideas that way. No Cylon Mind Meld. If they could share memories with a mere touch we would had seen it by now. Hunter2005 02:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

We sort of have. Consider the behavior of the various distinct Cavil models at the beginning of season 3, in which Ellen uses sex with one Cavil to bribe a different one to release Saul. Also, consider the way individuals in each model seem empowered to act as "speaker" for the entire line without, as far as we've seen, conducting some kind of physical poll. --Peter Farago 03:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Not necessarily, we long known that the models act in unison, that they all think alike (except for the ones with extensive human contact) Individualism as we know it didn't exist with Cylons but that doesn't mean they use touch to convey memories and thoughts. And yes, they very like develop group consensus off screen polls within their model line and vote as a mass, but again not evidence of touch telepathy, just maybe great conference calling. :-) Hunter2005 05:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

What if the Eight who was shot in "Faith" who reached out to Athena for physical contact was attempting a memory transfer before she died? --Peter Farago 07:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

If they can transfer memories by touch, the Six in Faith could've transferred her memories to Natalie. Anyway, we know that Cylons can interface with datastream terminals by touch, we know that a living Cylon's knowledge and memories cannot be accessed against their will (Home, Part I), we know that the resurrection process produces some form of memory backup which other copies of the same model can access against their will (The Hub) and we know that the Eight who would become Sharon Agathon had some of Boomer's memories (Flesh and Bone). We don't know if Cylons can communicate with eachother through physical contact, and we don't know if memory sharing requires special equipment. -- Gordon Ecker 08:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Don't forget young William Adama in Razor putting his hand in that tank and getting that flood of images, that is probably how the Eight accessed Athena's memory. To answer Peter Fargo through you (this is an awkward way to communicate): While anything is possible I think that moment was an intent to convey a certain human touch. That Athena has become so estranged from her people she even couldn't show affection to a fellow dying Cylon. Adama in Sine Qua Non alluded to how Athena regards her people when he accused her of hating her own kind so much that she will seize any opportunity to kill one. Anyway, if they could exchange information via touch they wouldn't waste time talking to each other, especially about critical matters but we have seen them talk, including about critical matters when they were alone on Baseships without humans to fool. Hunter2005 11:30, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

To be honest, its probably best to accept that the writers will juggle around the rather ill-defined memory sharing thing to suit whatever dramatic purposes an episode needs. OTW 19:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC)