Talk:Timeline (RDM)/Archive5

Archive 1 (July 28th, 2005 to November 31st, 2005):

Caprica Boomer's conception and morning sickness, Home II, Saul and Bill vs. The Evil Cylons, Untangling Season 2

6 months?

I thought I heard "Is that what you two have been doing out here for the last six months?" (following by something about philosophical debates and not having that luxury in time of war) from Cain on Colonial One. 180 days is a lot, so I thought I would mention it instead of add it, since I might just have heard incorrectly. --CalculatinAvatar 21:34, 7 January 2006 (EST)

See Resurrection Ship, Part I#Analysis. Her comment cannot possibly be correct, but on the other hand, she was speaking in haste and might have been exagerating for dramatic effect. Pegasus and Resurrection Ship almost certainly take place three months and change since the attack. --Peter Farago 23:23, 7 January 2006 (EST)

Further, in "Final Cut" D'Anna Biers states that Col. Tigh was in command of Galactica for "over a week"--->which is from "Scattered" to "Resistance" (maybe "The Farm"). I'm going to be liberal with this and say that was 13 days at most (obviously, this is probably not this case). Theorizing here: We know that Col. Tigh took command on Day 51 (on screen Fact), and that may have been in "command" for at most 14 days-->Resistance takes place on Day 65ish. Cally is given 30 days in the brig, gets out in "Flight of the Phoenix" which begins on Day 85ish then. Now, RDM did say that "weeks" pass during Flight of the Phoenix, which we always interpretted as "at least two weeks". In the same episode, Roslin is told that she has one month (30 days), tops, to live. "Pegasus" could have occured right after this. Anyway, "Epiphanies" now says that it takes place on Day 189? Okay, subtract 14 days for the two weeks Six was gone; that's 175. At LEAST two days pass during the Cain trilogy; so 173. --->When does "Flight of the Phoenix" end? That's the question. Well, subtract 30 from 173 and we get 143. You know, no matter how many ways I look at it, I'm suspecting they're trying to pull a full-blown retcon on us, because they're apparently saying that "Flight of the Phoenix" from beginning to end lasted two months. We know as stated fact that the Presidential elections are taking place on Day 222 (give or take a week). So unless in an episode stated to take place 30 days from now, there is an election, this is just one of the biggest goofs we've ever had. Thoughts?--Ricimer 18:13, 21 January 2006 (EST)

Yes, that's where it stands. --Peter Farago 18:37, 21 January 2006 (EST)

Who says FOTP didn't take 2 months? They were building a frakking ship from scratch, after all. Granted, its the biggest leap we've seen in a single episode, but is there evidence to the contrary? --BMS 20:01, 21 January 2006 (EST)

Yes. Roslin gets her one-month prognosis before Cally's release from the brig, which we can firmly date. --Peter Farago 20:39, 21 January 2006 (EST)

Also, remember that Laura was starting her education-related tour thingee 189 days before Ephiphanies. I am pretty sure that she was almost ENDING it during the miniseries. So, I think we can safely say that Ephiphanies is not happening on day 189, but rather, before it. Granted, its probably not more than a week or two, but that week could be what we're missing to make the timeline coherent. --BMS 20:01, 21 January 2006 (EST)

In his podcast, Moore states the the flashback scenes were meant to take place in between Roslin's diagnosis and her departure for Galactica, which was all in the span of one day. He admits that the timeline has to be fudged a bit to get Baltar and Six on the scene, but it was a very short time span. --Peter Farago 20:39, 21 January 2006 (EST)

Furthermore, however, I think that we're missing gaps that occur between episodes. For instance, is there evidence that KLG took place right after Colonial Day? We listed a one day gap, but what are we basing that on? There could be a week gap there and we wouldn't know it.

There is very firm evidence for all the first season dating, including Colonial Day and Kobol's Last Gleaming. --Peter Farago 20:39, 21 January 2006 (EST)

I think we need to list the things we DO know (colonial day takes place on day 47, there is a 30 day gap between resistance and the beginning of FOTP, and Ephiphanies takes place in the 180 day range, etc.) and then rebuild the timeline from there, working in reasonable gaps. We are saying that there are continuity errors due to Ephiphanies, but I doubt RDM would make a blunder like that. We just think there is a continuity error because we've been speculating ao many dates and then taking them for fact. --BMS 20:01, 21 January 2006 (EST)

I have been maintaining exactly such a list at the bottom of my lengthy discussion on the topic. I encourage you to read it fully. --Peter Farago 20:39, 21 January 2006 (EST)

Some might call this cavalier, but this is what I propose as what I would like: Firstly, we're going to bludgeon Ron D. Moore's blog with questions about this until we get an answer (even of the "so what? we made it up" variety, anything). You see, BMS, I feel that we should not restructure the timeline based on "Epiphanies". We should point out in the Notes section of every following episode "This is so and so many days after "Epiphanies", however note that BattlestarWiki's timeline shows that it couldn't be this". This is either a major blunder, a retcon, or both. We're not basing it on "Colonial Day", we're basing it on "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II" which was the final day that we got a date on screen (Day 51). KLG part I begins immediately after Colonial Day as you see that Starbuck got drunk at the party then had sex with Baltar in the following episode (she has the same dress, etc). Simply;

Kobol's Last Gleaming Part II through Valley of Darkness happen pretty much on the same day, Day 51.
Colonel Tigh could not possibly have been in command of Galactica for a period of over two weeks. He was in command starting in "Scattered", until "Resistance", although possibly this could have extended until "The Farm".
Cally is given a sentence of 30 days in the brig in "The Farm" for shooting Boomer in "Resistance". (we always assumed it mean 30 Days counting from when she was first arrested, not several days later when Adama sentenced her). She gets out in "Flight of the Phoenix".
Roslin is told later in Flight of the Phoenix that she has no more than one month to live. That puts a MAXIMUM of 30 days between the END of Flight of the Phoenix and "Epiphanies". We do know that Flight of the Phoenix DOES span a time period of WEEKS, we always assumed this was at least two. Though I guess up to four would not be "unreasonable".
Adding them up, 51+14+30 = 90. Flight of the Phoenix BEGINS at around at least Day 90 (although the SCENE with Roslin's diagnosis is after the scene when Cally gets out, I'm willing to fudge it and just say that scenes on different ships don't necessarily happen in order if they don't affect each other right away. Fair enough).---->Thus, "Epiphanies" could not take place any later than Day 120, which is FOUR months, not Six (to quote Picard, "THERE...ARE...**FOUR**..." MONTHS!). What are we supposed to believe, that Flight of the Phoenix lasted two months? I mean the biggest "official" gap between episodes was the 10 day gap between The Hand of God and Colonial Day.
Another big, "dumb question" I have: If Pegasus-through-Epiphanies (within a few days of each other) is supposed to take place Six months after the Cylon attack, Why isn't Caprica-Boomer more visibly pregnant?!. Her daughter was conceived a month after the attack, which would make her Five months pregnant in "Pegasus". Yet in Pegasus, she's wearing a REALLY form fitting tank top in which she doesn't look noticeably pregnant at all. Anyone else baffled by this?--Ricimer 10:47, 22 January 2006 (EST)

Roslin's prognosis is updated very early in "Flight of the Phoenix", before Cally's release from the brig, so really it should be "a maximum of 30 days between the BEGINNING of Flight of the Phoenix" and "Epiphanies". As for Boomer, she looks about five months along in "Epiphanies", but certainly did not during the "Pegasus" trilogy. I think it's fairly obvious that we just have to write off the "lost" two months as a continuity glitch - there's certainly no use badgering RDM about it. --Peter Farago 15:28, 22 January 2006 (EST)

Thanks, Peter. Thats what I really wanted to see, the dates that we know filled in with the dates we can speculate. It appears your right, there are 2 months missing. I didn't think that RDM would make such a huge blunder - If I were him, I would have written out all the dates George Lucas style - he had the entire Star Wars timeline from Anakin's birth to Luke's death planned out before he even released the first one back in 1977. I thought RDM, with his whole "naturalistic science fiction" crusade would have done the same. Way to frak it up, RDM. PS way to work in the Picard reference - great episode. --BMS 15:33, 22 January 2006 (EST)

No he didn't. --Ricimer 16:30, 22 January 2006 (EST)

I just had another thought. Perhaps Roslins little tour lasted 2 months. If she was going to all 12 colonies, who knows? That might be the missing two months right there. Do we have a reference to the duration of that tour? --BMS 15:36, 22 January 2006 (EST)

See RDM's podcast for his thoughts on the duration of the flashbacks. They were originally intended to all take place in between Roslin's diagnosis and her departure for Galactica, all on the same day. Note that her suit matches the one she arrived on Galactica wearing. --Peter Farago 15:43, 22 January 2006 (EST)

Oooh yeah... you're right. Well, I guess RDM's really frakked himself on this one. --BMS 19:36, 22 January 2006 (EST)

Very good observations, and I think we should try to pressure RDM about this, if possible. He spouts so much rhetoric about keeping it believeable that we can't really let something like this slide. However, I don't know about using the FotP "1 month" diagnosis as the main point of continuity criticism. While it is true that Dr. Cottle has shown to be a very good doctor and his estimate is probably a well-informed one, it is still an estimate. This certainly wouldn't be the first time a patient lived longer than a doctor expected, and it won't be the last. Despite decades of collecting data, cancer is still not very well understood by Earth doctors, and it follows that since the Galactica world is almost identical to ours in terms of medical technology (by design), cancer is not all that well understood there either. Drumstick 15:37, 22 January 2006 (EST)

No. In that episode he said he's be surprised if she lived a month. They were down to a few weeks. Jumping from that to saying "well she could have just lived two months and surprised everyone" is stretching it. --Ricimer 16:30, 22 January 2006 (EST)

By the way, please try to read the discussion thread more carefully. As much as I don't care for Ricimer regurgitating my easily accessible notes, I'd still rather not be erroneously credited for his posts. --Peter Farago 16:11, 22 January 2006 (EST)

I'm as upset about this as you are. I was developing my own thoughts, "thinking out loud" as it were, not "regurgitating" what you said (similarities are due to the fact that they share the same source material). --Ricimer 16:30, 22 January 2006 (EST)

I think we're all basically on the same page here, so there's no need to argue over who came up with what originally. Drumstick 17:37, 22 January 2006 (EST)

Come on now, this is supposed to be a *happy* occassion. Let's not bicker and argue about...who killed who...--Ricimer 17:55, 22 January 2006 (EST)

Yeah... we're all on the same page here. Perhaps we should add a note to the bottom of the timeline page about the missing two months? Right now, it jumps from day 86 to day 175 with no explanation. Well, I guess there IS no explanation, so we should add a note saying there is no explanation... if that makes sense. Also, sorry if I mixed up who said what, this page has become a little tough to follow. My apologies to Ricimer and Peter Farago. --BMS 19:47, 22 January 2006 (EST)

Speaking from experience, I have known two people (one relative, one relative of a close friend) with cancer who have been given the "surprised if you see out the month" speech from doctors only to survive 3 months and 18 months respectively. My point is that even the most experienced of doctors often have to make educated guesses and sometimes they don't get the figures quite right. Sometimes the cancer doesn't behave as expected or the progression through the body slows. Given what is shown of Roslyn from FOTP, Pegasus, Resurrection Ship to Epiphanies, I don't see a huge problem with her lasting the extra 60 or so days that the timeline suggests. --rexpop 1:56, 26 January 2006 (EST)

Thank you for your insight. On reflection, this does seem to be a plausible way to reconcile the time discrepancy. --Peter Farago 02:44, 26 January 2006 (EST)

Your personal insight does not add further weight to your viewpoint. I feel this violates the Citation crusade directly: unless they say directly on screen, in dialog, "wow, she lived longer than we thought", we should under no circumstances assume that she "just happened to live longer". Remember, this is a tv series where the writers are actually trying to inform they audience by stating facts on camera. This is not a historical research paper where we are trying to find out when a real person died, and we're confused that a doctor's diagnosis notes say she would live shorter than we've been led to believe. This is a tv series, and the writers were talking with us the audience in mind when they have Cottle on screen saying "you've got weeks, a month at the outside". Note, at the "outside" chance, as in "a maximum of one month". Thus, Rosl*I*n we must assume only had one month left. --Ricimer 19:57, 26 January 2006 (EST)

My only point is that of all the known information, Roslin's prognosis is the only thing that it is even possible to fudge. Whether or not one wishes to do so is a matter of personal interpretation. --Peter Farago 21:42, 26 January 2006 (EST)

Ricimer is just dead wrong there. If you listen to RDM he constantly talks about how his characters are living in a realistic world and are fallible. If you take that to its logical conclusion, then Cottle is just making his best guess as to what her prognosis is. He gives an estimate of how long she has, but, like any real doctor, he might have been wrong. An outside chance of one month doesn't rule out something longer than one month (he just probably wouldn't have bet money on it). And even if you went back to Cottle and he said, "She'll die within 20 days, guaranteed," one man's personal belief won't change the facts, and it looks like she lived longer than that one month. --LindyChef 02:59, 26 February 2006 (EST)

It is irrational of you to disagree with Ricimer. And frankly your line of thinking rings of Truthiness: it is not "one man's OPINION"; he is a DOCTOR, his prognosis was based on science and fact. Next, it was obviously a case of the writers essentially breaking the fourth wall, to announce to the audience, "she has one month to live". Finally, the amount of time that we believe was lost was on the order of Three Months. It would be impossible, given the script, for Roslin to inexplicably live for four months when the medical prognosis was that she would live for one month at most. Further, it does not explain the sudden shift in Caprica-Sharon's pregnancy; how she goes from not-visibly pregnant in "Pegasus" to suddenly very pregnant: if "Downloaded" supposedly takes place when she is eight months pregnant, and in Res Ship they say that six months have passed, making her 5 months pregnant all of a sudden? Even when she was wearing a tank top and stuff? Regardless, suddenly going from a "one month at best" prognosis, to "well, turns out it was four months", is a fantasy. --The Merovingian 03:32, 26 February 2006 (EST)

It's not irrational. It is one man's opinion, a doctor's for sure, but that still doesn't change the fact that he's making a best guess based on the information at hand. Going by yours and Ricimer's line of reasoning, then in the context of this show, a doctor's guesses are always right, that they do not make mistakes. But doctors do occasionally make misdiagnoses, give incorrect prognosises and make mistakes. I admit that it is a long shot that she could last four months after a one month prognosis, but it doesn't rule out that it couldn't happen. I understand that, by throwing out the one month prognosis in dialogue, the writers are trying to give us clues in the timeline, but the one month prognosis doesn't jive and I think that this is the best way to account for that three month gap. I personally think that they threw that line out there in writing anzd, as we have seen, they haven't been playing as close attention to the timeline as they should. And in regards to the pregnancy, at 5 months she'll have a nice little bulge in her belly. What I saw in Pegasus didn't really give any view of her belly area that was clear enough to know if she has a nice bulge ... unfortunately, I don't have a copy of "Resurrection Ship, pt I" to go back and take a look the exam scene right now which might clear things up. Oh, and thanks for the catch on the timeline for "Downloaded" BTW. You're right that 270 is the birthdate. --LindyChef 15:10, 2 March 2006 (CST)

Actually, if you can see Pegasus and Res Ship again it's ridiculous; she's wearing a tight fitting tank top and doesn't look pregnant at all. --The Merovingian 16:41, 2 March 2006 (CST)

Duration of Home, Part I

What's the basis for the recent dating for Home, Part I? I mean in terms of quotes or something I missed.--Ricimer 17:16, 8 January 2006 (EST)

I don't know. It would probably be best to consider it in three parts with The Farm and Home, Part II, since they all seem to pick up where the other leaves off. I've sort of held off on re-watching them longer than I should, since they aren't really my favorite episodes... --Peter Farago 18:00, 8 January 2006 (EST)

If we just "assumed" 2 days had passed, etc without evidence I think it should be replaced with ?? marks. --Ricimer 18:38, 8 January 2006 (EST)

I agree, if there's no evidence, but let's give Kahran a chance to respond. --Peter Farago 18:41, 8 January 2006 (EST)

Roslin's life expectancy after "Epiphanies"

Should we remove the "Roslin's maximum/minimum life expectancy" stat now that her cancer's been all but cured? Kahran 20:58, 21 January 2006 (EST)

I'd rather not. We didn't remove her older life expectancy from "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I" when the estimate was revised downward in "Flight of the Phoenix". Both data points might still be of interest to someone who's following the continuity of the show. --Peter Farago 21:04, 21 January 2006 (EST)

When is the Presidential Election?

Okay, "Res Ship, part I" and "Epiphanies" established that we are now 6 months after the Cylon attack. (That's definately what they're *SAYING*, but I'm still saying how improbable it was and there must have been a lot of time passing in FotP).

Regardless, in "Scar" 29 days pass. Give a few as well for "Black Market" (do we know how many days pass in that?), and we'll call it an even "one month".

6 months + 1 month = 7 months. pollo stated in "Bastille Day" that they would hold elections in "seven months" when Roslin serves out President Adar's term. So what's going on? --Ricimer 03:11, 4 February 2006 (EST)

RDM says the election will take place at the end of the season. --Peter Farago 03:18, 4 February 2006 (EST)

Timing of Events of Black Market and later episodes

The "matter of weeks" timing of Black Market after Epiphanies is thorny in terms of trying to figure out when it happens. I'm estimating 3 weeks, hence 21 days. If it was much longer, they could have said "a month" or "almost a month" or "more than a month", if it was shorter, it could be "just a week" or the like. It could be a little more either way, but I put dates in estimating that much time (and noted as approximate). --Wingsandsword

Seven weeks is still "a matter of weeks". All we can say about the "black market" comment is that it was definitely less than two months, since after that point it becomes "a matter of months". --Peter Farago 03:38, 4 February 2006 (EST)

No Wingsandsword. Here our standard is to leave it as ?? question marks, when such a large amount of time as one to two weeks is involve.d --Ricimer 03:39, 4 February 2006 (EST)

I don't see any policy to that effect anywhere here. I've just checked, it's nowhere in the tutorials, nowhere in the few policies listed, nowhere I can find. There is no style guide to this wiki making things like that standard that I can tell. It might be your personal standard, but I don't see any official opinion or policy declaration that approximate dates have a specific margin of error, that beyond "x" certainty it goes from an approximate date to a completely unknown one. An approximate date is a lot more useful than just "???". We don't know when, hence it is listed as "~" days. --Wingsandsword 13:39, 4 February 2006 (EST)

The Ten Weeks thing in "Downloaded"

Just wanted to let you guys in on a little thing regarding this "Ten Weeks Ago" thing that popped up in "Downloaded"... I was contacted by a bona-fide member of the post-production crew on BSG. While I can't get into specifics, since I didn't ask to do so, I can tell you folks that the production crew figured that the "Ten Weeks Ago" thing was a mistake (which came from the script) and this will be corrected in the home video releases and the international views to read "Ten Weeks After" (the attack). It was the fan's outcry -- and the meticulous work done on this timeline -- that brought around this correction. All our hard working contributors should be proud -- I know I am. Pretty frakkin' cool, huh? -- Joe Beaudoin 20:30, 2 March 2006 (CST)

It is pretty cool, but "ten weeks after the attack" is still wrong - Sharon's death can't possibly have been any later than Day 57, ie, roughly eight weeks. Nor does it address the other issue in this episode - Three's statement that Kara was on Caprica "a couple weeks ago", while Caprica-Valerii wasn't even visibly pregnant yet; nor the 74 days which seem to have vanished into the ether between "Pegasus" and "Resurrection Ship". --Peter Farago 21:18, 2 March 2006 (CST)

FYI, I've mailed the person in question your comments. I'm interested to see what happens with this. I'll keep you folks posted. -- Joe Beaudoin 21:39, 2 March 2006 (CST)

I was going to chime in on this myself: Our entire timeline supports the idea that it could not have been Day 70 (ten weeks); that was around Home, Part II. Would you guys agree that "8 weeks after" would be a good working figure? (I mean "weeks" leaves it "fuzzy around the edges", as it were, giving some 2-3 day stretch time, no need to get exact.--The Merovingian 00:10, 3 March 2006 (CST)

Flight Of The Phoenix Chronology Note

I'm sorry to say that the whole Chronology Note on this episode has several errors in it that need correcting. Rather than edit it myself, I'm starting this thread so that there is some agreement on what it is edited to. I rewatched 'Flight of the Phoenix' the other weekend from the Season 2.0 DVD set and the order of events in the episode is:

1) Caly gets released from the Brig 2) Tyrol starts building the backbird 3) Laura gets her one month to live diagnosis 4) Galactica routs Cylon attack 5) Tyrol completes the Blackbird.

So the statement that Laura's diagnosis happended before Caly was released from the brig is wrong. And there is no indication that the scene happened in flashback either. It's possible that they re-edited the episode for the DVD but I haven't seen a posting to indicate that this happened. So I would suggest that this note is removed and the episode timeline entry corrected to break out the 5 events, as they did occur on seperate days over a three month period. --Rexpop 15:38, 3 March 2006 (CST)

Thank you; I was running off of some back information from someone else, but upon viewing a transcript at GalacticaStation, it appears that Roslin is givern her diagnosis AFTER Cally returns; this is great, and a lot simpler; now it just means that months pass between these two scenes. --The Merovingian 17:36, 3 March 2006 (CST)

To clear things up I've tidied up the section for this episode. I've broken out the events as happening on different days and moved the chronology note to the notes section for further cleaning up. I've also indicated that the day of Cally's release is approximate as we don't have a firm date from when the 30 days starts from. Hopefully this will help keep the timeline fairly clean. and clear --Rexpop 21:33, 3 March 2006 (CST)

Fine Tuning "Black Market" Through "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I"

I know that we've been able to pin the start date of "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I" to be around Day 270, but I think it we might be able to further fine tune that number to be more like Day 276. Going forward from "Epiphanies," the timeline is as follows:

At least two days pass in "Epiphanies" putting the earliest start date for the events in "Black Market" to be around Day 191.
At least one day passes in "Black Market," which means that the mining operations in "Scar" could not start until Day 192 at the earliest. Since the mining ops in "Scar" take 29 days, Battlestar Galactica could not return to the fleet until Day 221 at the earliest.
The return of Battlestar Galactica to the fleet means that the events of "Sacrifice" could not begin until Day 221.
Lee's recovery from the shooting in "Sacrifice" has lasted "almost a month." If we assume this is longer than three weeks and less than a month, around 25 days, then the starting date for "The Captain's Hand" would be around Day 246.
In "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I" the moderator of the debate states that Baltar announced his candidacy one month ago (in "The Captain's Hand"), putting the the beginning of the episode at around Day 276.

It's six days, I know, but I think with the information at hand we can reliably date the timline for the final stretch of the season. Any thoughts, other information I'm missing? --LindyChef 14:39, 7 March 2006 (CST)

I agree. If we look at Starbuck's SAR, how can it take them 10 days to jump from the Fleet to Caprica and only one day to jump back? If we put "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I" at Day 276, that would seem a little more likely (ie, four days of Jumps and calculations to get there, one day to get back). --Bahamut 04:00, 12 March 2006 (EST)

It still doesn't take care of some of the consistencies in "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I," though. Right before the debates Six says it will be two weeks before the election, yet in the briefing room right before the first debate Lee says they're listening in to see what they are looking forward to over the next 5 days, either meaning that the debates are only going to last 5 days or the SAR mission is going to last 5 days, yet after the last debate, the announcer says the election will be in three days and the SAR mission hasn't returned home yet (and yes, the SAR mission did run a day long, so I think it ran 6 days, while the debates ran 5. The 5 day format makes sense to me ... 1 day for debate, 1 day for rest, 1 day for second debate, 1 day for rest, 1 day for final debate) --LindyChef 23:38, 12 March 2006 (CST)

Something which just ocurred to me - the "three days away" comment explicitly refers to the polls opening. Perhaps the "two weeks away" comment refers to them closing. --Peter Farago 23:42, 12 March 2006 (CST)

Maybe, but Six explicitly says the "election" is two weeks away ... I think it might be that there's a good 7 days or so between the close of the debates and the actual election. That would mean the SAR team would get back from Caprica around Day 282 and you'd have a week for the action to play out of Rosalin coming to Baltar, Anders and Thrace and Lee, etc. If no-one has any other major inputs, I'll go ahead and edit the S2.5 timeline to reflect these changes. --LindyChef 00:18, 13 March 2006 (CST)

Please don't. We're very explicitly told that the final debate was three days before the polls open, when McManus says "This concludes the cycle of the debates for the presidency. The polls will be open in three days." --Peter Farago 14:56, 13 March 2006 (CST)

Sorry, wasn't clear about what I'd proposed the edit on ... it would be for the stretch between Epiphanies and Lay Down Your Burdens I&II (the timeline I wrote out above). The timline for Lay Down Your Burdens I&II would remain intact, just shifted down by by 6 days. --LindyChef 01:44, 14 March 2006 (CST)

I'm confused. I thought it was pretty clear that the LDYB timeline I posted is based on a rough estimate of Baltar's "nine months" comment. There should be about two weeks of wiggle room on either side. I don't think we've even tried to link it up conclusively to Epiphanies yet, which will be a complicated challenge. --Peter Farago 01:50, 14 March 2006 (CST)

I'm confused as to what you're confused about ... with the information at hand we can reasonably date the timeline from Ephiphanies through LDYB ... I don't see a good place to put the proposed edit here, so I can put it on my talk page for you to look at. --LindyChef 23:09, 15 March 2006 (CST)

I'll be interested to see your argument. I don't believe we currently have enough information to do that conclusively. --Peter Farago 23:30, 15 March 2006 (CST)

Neither do I. --The Merovingian 23:57, 15 March 2006 (CST)

It's up on my talk area if you want to look now. --LindyChef 14:05, 22 March 2006 (CST)

Issues with LindyChef's Analysis

Link: User_talk:LindyChef#Example_of_proposed_edit_for_the_RDM_Timeline_page_for_s2.5

How can Resurrection Ship Parts 1 & 2 be firmly dated? All we know is that at the latest, Gina and Baltar last spoke 14 days prior to epiphanies. What else constrains these events?
What's the motivation for placing "Black Market" mere days after Epiphanies? There's no reason this couldn't be the case, of course.
As I discussed above, isn't it possible that the asteroid mining operations were already underway during "Black Market"?

Thanks for your work on this thus far. I look forward to your reply. --Peter Farago 16:31, 22 March 2006 (CST)

Timeline Image

I been working with a cool program that does a timeline bar. . I can even make it clickable if SVG files are enabled. --Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 12:36, 23 April 2006 (CDT)

I doubt that the visual aid will benefit this article. --Peter Farago 12:40, 23 April 2006 (CDT)

In it's very impomplete form. Just giving an idea. Once i figure out all the parmaters then I will post a more realisisc bar. --Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 12:43, 23 April 2006 (CDT)

Days v. Day

I am very confused. I am working on the timeline image, and days are driving me nutz. Days are like 46 days. 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 and so on... and day is a single day right? --Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 15:32, 23 April 2006 (CDT)

There's not much meaningful difference, we switched from "46 Days" to "Day 46" about halfway through season one and never corrected the older entries. Side note - your timeline right not indicates that "33" spanned five days, but it really only took place over about three hours at the end of day 6. --Peter Farago 10:05, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

Dating "The Captain's Hand"

"Epiphanies" and the Cain Trilogy take place at Six Months after the Cylon attack. It's stated that mining operations in "Scar" lasted one month. It's stated that one month passes between "Sacrifice" and "The Captain's Hand". It's stated that the next episode, "Downloaded", is 9 months post-attack. Start at Six months, plus 1 for "Scar", plus 1 for stated gap between Sacrifice and Captain's Hand, Captain's Hand takes place at least 8 months post-attack. *****Do we have any idea whatsoever how much time passes between Captain's Hand and Downloaded? Because I'm going consider it just "0ver 8 months" I guess. --The Merovingian ^{(C - E)} 21:47, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

Nevermind, LDYB I firmly dates Captain's Hand as 1 month before it. --The Merovingian ^{(C - E)} 21:57, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

Yep. --Peter Farago 23:16, 11 July 2006 (CDT)

Future Events

Is it possible to delete the furute events that have a line through them? I really don't see the point of keeping them.--Quig 16:07, 6 September 2006 (CDT)

You know, I kind of like the 'timeline graveyard.' It shows what issues arose and that the show is taking care of them in one way or another. ... Now, better organizing/displaying it is another matter. That lineout stuff is none too pretty. - Keithustus 14:33, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

"Circa:" the enemy of all anal historians

Now that LDYB II and the beginning of season 3 has provided us some hard dates, I would really appreciate it if someone (Bart voice: "Not me!") rigorously checked the dates of the events of LDYB II and Occupation. From there, it would be relatively easy to accurately sequence the webisodes and subsequent season 3 episodes. I just sped through Occupation/Precipice/Exodus to get their timelines at least worked out, but we're in a bad place that pretty much everything after the Cylon arrival starts with "c. Day ###" - Keithustus 14:28, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

I know circa is ugly, but we can't clean anything up. We know when Cylon occupation began relative to the settling of New Caprica, and we know when Season 3 opened relative to the occupation, but the settling of New Caprica itself is only known to have taken place in the vicinity of nine months after the fall of the colonies. Thus, we are stuck with the "circa". --Peter Farago 01:50, 21 November 2006 (CST)

the Colonial calender

Since Hero has revealed how the Colonial calender counts it's years and the the "current" year is 21,356 the timeline should be updated. (Alphaboi867 19:27, 19 November 2006 (CST))

I disagree with the usage of these dates, particularly in lieu of the document Baltar signed in "Precipice". -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 20:53, 19 November 2006 (CST)

Indeed, the document gives that particular day as "3454-91". -- Troyian 21:23, 19 November 2006 (CST)

There's even a different (third) timekeeping system used on Adama's letter of resignation in "Hero". The Dossier is useful for pinning down relative dates, but I don't think we should read too much into the calendar system. --Peter Farago 01:25, 20 November 2006 (CST)

There's also a not-so-clear chart on Laura Roslin in "Epiphanies", which was located at the foot of her sickbay bed. We see this briefly and it is blurry enough not to make out specific numbers, but said document appears to be using a different dating structure as well. Also, given the Cimtar Peace Accords documents and Cylon Centurion Model 0005 in the mini-series, the documents should be treated with a healthy skepticism. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 10:13, 20 November 2006 (CST)

Another thought... in general, I have to say that we should probably avoid using in-universe dating, and go with keeping the dating system as simple as possible (using the Fall of the Colonies as a baseline). Since there is more than enough evidence thus far proving that the in-universe dating system is inconsistently applied, I believe using this would only lead to horrible inaccuracies, the bane of any reference's existence. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 10:13, 20 November 2006 (CST)

The Hero Continuity Discrepency

Given the amount of discussion it has generated on other BSG websites I have been surprised to note that the enormous continuity errors in Hero haven't been discussed here. Namely the error that Adama was on board Valkyrie 1 year before the attacks and was given command of Galactica afterwards as a retirement posting, yet in You Can't Go Home Again he states that he has commanded Starbuck "On THIS ship," for more than 2 years. There's also the problem that he served with Tyrol for 5 years (and Tyrol listed all of the battlestars he served on in Resistance and Valkyrie wasn't one of them), Gaeta for 3 years prior to the attack, Boomer for 2 years and Captain Kelly for some time as well (didn't he say 2 years as well in the mini?). I can see Adama taking Tigh with him from Valkyrie to Galactica, but 5 other crewmen as well? And a fairly random selection at that (a flight operations officer, a bridge officer, a nugget, a pilot, a deckhand, assuming Tyrol was in a more junior post at that time)? Plus only Tigh and Adama knew Bulldog. Starbuck and Tyrol seemed to have no idea who he was.

To add to the chaos, Adama seems to genuinely believe that he could have sparked the Attack on the Colonies. This is impossible as Adama served with Boomer for 2 years prior to the Attack, thus the Cylons were infiltrating the Colonies 1 year before the Valkyrie mission and Adama knows this. By itself, this seems to indicate that the Valkyrie mission must take place considerably earlier than it is claimed.

Possible solutions: 1) Adama was in charge of Galactica and went to Valkyrie to do this one special mission, requesting that Bulldog and Tigh go with him. UNLIKELY: Tyrol, Starbuck and Athena should still have recognised Bulldog (they missed a trick by not having Bulldog bump into Athena, recognise her as a Cylon and freaking out btw). Bulldog definitely was not on Galactica before as he wanted to know what Adama was doing on such an old ship. This is still problematic as Boomer's presence would tell Adama that the Cylons were already infiltrating the Colonies, thus his mission had nothing to do with the Attack.

2) The producers forgot about the year on New Caprica, so the Valkyrie mission was actually 2 years before the Attack. However, this causes problems in that Adama had still served with Gaeta and Tyrol by that point. Moving it back to 3 years before the Attack (meaning the producers forgot about the year on New Caprica and nine months the series spanned before that as well, which seems ludicrous) only gives us Tyrol to worry about and that can be explained by Tyrol being on Valkyrie (and serving on the other flight pod to the one Bulldog used and being in a junior position, so he never worked with him) and going with the Old Man to Galactica (and forgetting to list Valkyrie among his previous posts). That seems to be fine. The only problem with this is that this means that Bulldog was a prisoner of the Cylons for SIX years, not three, a very considerable difference.

Solution: There isn't one. At least with the last big screw-up (Flight of the Phoenix) it was possible to come to a conclusion by saying that episode took place over two to three months. With this problem, it seems totally self-contradictory (I wonder if RDM didn't do a podcast for this episode simply because he realised how messed up the timeline was).

EDIT: I just found some discussion on the Hero episode page, which basically seems to reach the same conclusion I did: there isn't an explanation except the dialogue in this episode is plain wrong. Oh well.--Werthead 16:24, 26 November 2006 (CST)

If we're supposing that the current year is 21356 (based on Adama's 45 years in service beginning in 21311), this is the only explanation I've found that works in the timeline:

D6/21311 First commission: Battlestar Galactica fighter squadron

...

C2/21345 Commander: Battlestar Valkyrie
C2/21348 Commander: Battlestar Galactica

...

21353 Commissioned for Valkyrie mission/Bulldog captured/Adama sent back to Galactica to retire (this wouldn't be on Adama's service record)
21354 Cylons attack the 12 Colonies
21356 Bulldog returns/Adama awarded medal of distinction.

Further explanation: Since the time frame is fuzzy, it could be explained in retrospect that Adama had already fallen out of favor with the Admiralty and been stationed on Galactica for 5 years before they gave him one final chance to return to his old ship and crew. If he succeeded, he'd resume command of the Valkyrie; if he failed, he'd gracefully retire with Galactica. He failed, but this time took Tigh with him. Bulldog was asking Tigh how he ended up on Galactica, not specifically Adama. This fits the dialogue AND the timeline, and would not appear on the service record due to it being a black-ops mission. --Empire279 19:56, 9 December 2006 (CST)

Unfinished Business

I just got done with this episode and it confused me a little over the timeline so I came here to try to clear it up, but I find I'm just further confused.

The events at the groundbreaking were 17 months before the episode and 8 months before the Cylon occupation of New Caprica. What confused me at first was since The Resistance covered the 4 months after the occupation, the exodus from New Caprica must have taken place 12 months after the groundbreaking, meaning the fleet has been traveliing again for 5 months. This didn't seem right to me, though I don't think there's anything essentially wrong with it - I just felt like it had been a shorter time.

But when I came here to try to clear it up I ran into this:

Day 660 (380th day since settlement): Cylon forces occupy New Caprica.

If this happened a year after the order to settle New Caprica (as shown in Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II), that would lead me to believe that the order was given on day 300. And that the grounbreaking was on day 420 (8 months before the occupation). But the timelime has these fixed at about Day 285 and Day 315 respectively.

The date of the settlement order isn't that bad - a difference of 15 days from what I expected could easily be rounded off to 1 year. But the groundbreaking listed at day 315 doesn't make any sense to me given the jump of one year in Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II and the fact that the groundbreaking was 8 months before the occupation (Unfinished Business).

Can anyone shed any light on this?

[EDIT] I thought about this a bit more, and while I was a little surprised at the dates involved, I think the biggest problem is why the groundbreaking for the colony is a full four months after the order to settle on New Caprica - something that is simply a problem from the show itself, and not something a timeline can work around.

--Jp Corkery 06:16, 7 December 2006 (CST)

Was it the groundbreaking for the colony of New Caprica City itself (which was already being settled) or for some building or structure there? --Peter Farago 19:10, 13 December 2006 (CST)

I too assumed it was the groundbreaking of some random building. However, the (unofficial) transcript says:

"(Baltar breaks ground on the settlement to the sound of applause and cheers; Jammer and Duck are there.)

Baltar: Thank you. Let this day be remembered as the day we broke ground for our new tomorrow."

I don't know. His rhetoric definitely sounds a bit grandiose for an administration building or a hospital (not to mention having the big party that was thrown). Troubling... --Steelviper 19:45, 13 December 2006 (CST)

I too believe it was for the settlement as a whole and not just a building, perhaps it was a little of both. The ground breaking could had been for the first permanent building for the settlement on New Caprica as opposed to mere tents and huts. At any rate, we are give hard dates in which to measure the passage of time and I agree that the non flashback events of Unfinished Business takes place five months after the events of Collaborators, I think that was the last time we were given a hard and fast date before Unfinished Business ("three days after the Second Exodus"). Also, I don't think it was just two days after the events of Hero that the events of Unfinished Business happened. I don't think after the bad beating Adm. Adama got at the hands of Lt. Novacek he would climb into a boxing ring just two days later, I don't think Doctor Cottle would allow it. I feel at least a week if not two seems more reasonable. And for the record I think it was more than a few days between Unfinished business and The Passage. I think two weeks at least feels more comfortable for the Colonials to detect the problem and then conduct a search while the fleets previously processed non contaminated food supply that people had in their cubbards and refrigerators a chance to deplete. From the looks at when Lee Adama, Starbuck and company wolfed down their remaining food it was a considerable amount of time between finding the problem to near starvation. It must be noted no matter what, Galactica is on a different time flow than we are. After all there have been only about 8 episodes (treat Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I & II, Occupation & Precipice and Exodus, Part I & II as three two hour episodes each) between the events of Downloaded and the birth of Hera (aired May 2, 2006); and the events in The Eye of Jupiter, when Athena learned that she was still alive (aired December 15, 2006). Only eight months have passed in our time but that is two years elapsed time in Galactica's timeline at least. Hunter2005 03:57, 21 December 2006 (CST)

When I watched I thought that it was the first permanent building as well, as opposed to provisional tents. And that they used that ocassion for a general celebration --Serenity 16:04, 22 December 2006 (CST)

Justification of the change of the timeline

I have just edited the time line from the benchmark Day 285 to 315 as outlined in the previous Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II timeline post. It is assumed by the previous person that posted it that the Colonials begin to land on New Caprica for permanent settlement in the thirty days between day 285 and day 315. I essentially split the difference and say they began to disembark civilians to the planet on day 300. That is day one of the settlement of New Caprica not when Baltar did the ground breaking ceremony, which I calculate to be approximately four months later or approximately day 420; that is Day 300 + 120 days=420. Now I derived this because the first flash back of Unfinished Business gave the dates "17 months ago, 8 months before the Occupation" or words to that effect. At the end of Lay Down your Burdens Part II a Doral unit said they spotted the light of Gina's nuclear blast that left the Fleet the year before. Now the Cylons may be derived from machines, computers, but they have not demonstrated that they are as exacting in speech and time measurement as the android Lt. Commander Data was or the Vulcans Spock, T'Pol, Tuvok were, or the former Borg "7 of 9" was in the various Star Trek series, so they estimate like humans. On the other hand also like humans I don't think they would round off eight months into a year. A full four months or 120 days is being chopped off doing that, so I believe when Doral said they noticed the blast of light that came from the vicinity of New Caprica a year ago (from the Colonial's perspective), I believe he means just about a year, give a week or two less or more than a year, not a full four months less than a chronological year. Also, I don't think it took four months for the Cylons to figure out where the blast came from. Just follow the flash of light and make a bee line for the source. From that, if the Cylons landed almost exactly a year later, then that ground breaking ceremony was four months after the first settlers landed on New Caprica since the occupation was stated to be eight months (240 days) in the future. From there, we know that the occupation lasted only four months (120 days) before the Exodus. That places the Exodus almost exactly one year after the ground breaking by Baltar on New Caprica. So you have 12 total months (385-365 days) of settlement in freedom on NC, then four months of occupation for a total of approximately 16 months or approximately 420 days.

In Unfinished Business it was stated that the events of Unfinished Business happened 17 months-about 510 days-after the ground breaking and eight months-240 days-before the occupation. Combine that with the total length of the occupation, four months or 120 days, that would mean that from the point of the ground breaking to the Exodus it is almost exactly 1 year or 12 months or 360-365 days in time.

Now you have approximately 17 months (approximately 510 days) from the ground breaking on New Caprica to Unfinished Business; minus approximately 12 months (365 days) from that groundbreaking to the events in Collaborators (which was three days after the Exodus); which equals approximately five months or 145-150 days left. That means that five months since the Exodus has elapsed between Collaborators and Unfinished Business. Now some of the dates are not exact given that some of them are estimates, especially the two week window the previous time line gave for the settlement of NC given previously: "Between c. Day 285 and c. Day 315". I as noted settled on day 300 that the settlement started allowing for the Galactica crew to do a two week survey of the location of New Caprica City.But the start of the settlement process could had started as much as two weeks later and still be plausible to meet Doral's "we noticed the nuclear blast in the time it took for light from it to reach us" explanation. However, given the hard dates we are given. It can be safely derived that five months have passed between Collaborators and Unfinished Business.

Incidentally I do disagree with the closeness of events in episodes as outlined after Collaborators. It seems that the original person who did it thinks the episodes happen within two or three days of one another. I don't think that is the case. As I just shown there is a five moth gap of time between Collaborators and Unfinished Business, plenty of room to spread out the three episodes in between-Torn, A Measure of Salvation and Hero. I think there is a need for a gap particularly between Hero and Unfinished Business. I don't think Adama would climb into a ring two days after being beaten so badly by Lt. Novacek. A gap of at the very least of a week should be there; more like two weeks. Even more so, I also think that there is a wide gap between Unfinished Business and The Passage. I don't think the Fleet would reach starvation levels within a month of the discovery of the contamination. They would need time to find a suitable planet as well. However, I did leave the two day gaps between episodes since I don't have any alternative time line regarding that, just common sense. Hunter2005 10:13, 21 December 2006 (CST)

I'm sorry, I can't stand by this. The Day 385 date was better in the asbsence of any knowledge to the contrary, and "Unfinished Business" does not supply that. The groundbreaking was explicitly not for the colony, which Dualla even remarked had existed for at least a month prior. --Peter Farago 05:22, 23 December 2006 (CST)

I happen to agree with you that New Caprica was being settled long before Baltar stuck his shovel in the ground. I thought I made that clear before, but I didn't so I am re-editing my previous post (the one you are answering). And while Unfinished Business doesn't supply an exact date as to when the first settlers landed, I think the Doral unit who answered Baltar when the Cylons arrived gave us a good idea. In Lay Down Your Burdens Part II A Doral said that they noticed the light of Gina's Nuclear blast just about then, which is why it took them a year to show up at New Caprica, given the speed of light. In other words the Cylons were about a light year away when Cloud 9 blew up. Since it is almost certain the settlement of New Caprica started soon after (the civilians were just itching to get out of the "boxes" that were the spaceships), and by settlement I mean putting up the first tents and huts with civilians living in them, that means the settlement started a year before the Cylon invasion. It took a year for the light of Gina's explosion to reach the Cylons. The ground breaking took place eight months before the Cylons came or roughly four months after the first settlers arrived. Again, I speculate that the ground breaking was for a permanent building in New Caprica City, perhaps the Administration/Detention Center? Maybe its original purpose was to be the New Caprica City city hall? Hunter2005 03:29, 25 December 2006 (CST)

Episode timeline slight adjustment

I spread out the episode incidences between day 800 of Collaborators and day 950 of Unfinished Business. I left the small time gap between Torn and A Measure of Salvation sincethe latter does occur very shortly after the former. In fact, I narrowed the gap between them to only one day. Again, I am trying to use common sense to get a feel as to when the episodes happened. From this I believe there was a gap of about two weeks between Hero and Unfinished Business because it would take about two weeks for Admiral Adama to recover from the beating Lt. Novacek gave him, but I think that beating gave Adama the idea of a boxing match to get the bile out of the system of the crew, seeing how "therapeutic" it was for both Saul and Novacek. Conversely I think only a day would be needed between the events of "Torn" and "A Measure of Salvation" to access the Cylons and formulate and execute a plan to recon the disabled Baseship. They don't want to wait too long less the Cylons come back. Hunter2005 13:08, 22 December 2006 (CST)

Good in principle, but I generally don't like guessing dates when we have nothing to go on. --Peter Farago 05:18, 23 December 2006 (CST)

I understand what your concerns are, but I think it is better than stacking them back to back to back. That is even more unrealistic IMHO. Having them back to back etc. is no more realistic a representation of when those events happened than spreading them out, in fact less so. At least some thought goes into it using common sense like my idea of not having Adama climb into a boxing ring in "Unfinished Business" allegedly two days after getting a beating from Novacek in "Hero". At least put a two weeks of daylight between the episodes to give the 60-odd year old Adm. Adama time to recover. And the five month gap between "Collaborators" and "Unfinished Business" is much more than guess work, it is using the on screen data available. Three episodes to spread out over five months leaves a lot of room (especially for those who write Battlestar Galactica novels) and if my guesstimate dates are wrong they can be moved when canon information is available. Hunter2005 19:19, 24 December 2006 (CST)

I wasn't responsible for any of the proposed dates for the third season content, so please don't read me as defending whatever was there before you made your contributions. My only concern is that it be clear to viewers that the third season dates are complete guesswork, as opposed to some of the second season dates which can at least be inferred from dialogue. --Peter Farago 03:28, 26 December 2006 (CST)