Talk:Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II/Archive2

The Cliffhanger

I'm betting that Baltar's little gift to the Demand Peace movement makes its way to Pegasus and is about to destroy or mortally damage the battlestar in this season closer. Mortally damaging it makes more sense to allow Galactica (and the show) to gather some of the new resources that Pegasus brought before it has to be removed from the picture. Perhaps, in coordination with a probable Cylon attack, Pegasus may end up doing a "Commander Cain charge" at the start of Season 3. --Spencerian 11:52, 13 February 2006 (EST)

Looks like I picked one hell of a week to quite drinking...--The Merovingian 12:02, 13 February 2006 (EST)

Is it just me, or does the second season seem to be bouncing from cliffhanger to cliffhanger, with the in-between episodes being nothing but filler? --Peter Farago 12:08, 13 February 2006 (EST)

It isn't just you... Looks like I picked one hell of a week to quit sniffing glue. -- Joe Beaudoin 12:22, 13 February 2006 (EST)

I don't mind the "filler" episodes. I believe you need them to set up future stories down the road. I believe PEGASUS will stick around for one or two episodes next year(Gives them time to strip her down)....Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines!--Quig 16:36, 15 February 2006 (EST)

There's no cliffhanger, really. The Cylons win, humanity is occupied and the ships of the fleet are essentially empty with everyone down on Cylon-occupied New Caprica. The show is completely different from here on out. Cloud Nine is gone (which from a production standpoint makes sense--- no need for a planet-like ship when they have an actual planet) and all the leads but Lee, Adama and possibly Sharon are on the planet, hoping not to be killed by their new Cylon overlords. It's awesome. Oh, girlBilly seems to be sticking around as a character as well. numbertwelve

You have no idea; that's just fanfic. --The Merovingian 21:11, 24 February 2006 (EST)

Could one or the other of you please explain what that last enormous edit-and-reversion was all about? Numbertwelve, have you seen the episode in question? Are you passing on reports from other sources, and if so, can you identify them? Merv, are you familiar with a fanfic that resembles his description? --Peter Farago 21:18, 24 February 2006 (EST)

Well, it sounds like he was just posting his own guesses/fanfic ideas without any basis on actual material, so I cleaned it up. --The Merovingian 21:31, 24 February 2006 (EST)

I believe that the info is coming from BIG SPOILERS. Don't know the validity of it though.

Based on the what I've read of the Part I summary, I'd say that the information was actually accurate. That said, I'm not sure this site really wants to post detailed episode summaries before the episode has actually aired anywhere, especially when we have no way of confirming the source.--Uncle Mikey 10:35, 4 March 2006 (CST)

In all likelihood, numbertwelve's comments stem from here. --Watcher 03:24, 8 March 2006 (CST)

Judging by that picture, I think those spoilers might be right, though I seriously hope they are dead wrong, anyone else hope this? --LeobenConoy 02:30, 10 March 2006 (TST)

It certainly would be a heck of a sharp turn for the series, but, y'know, I'm OK with that. RDM really kinda needs to keep making sharp turns to keep the series from falling too much into the established track of the Original Series, for one thing. For another thing, I like surprises :-) I don't want this story to become too predictable. Actually, when I look back over the two seasons to date, RDM et alia have not allowed us to settle into anything like a routine for more than a few episodes before they kick over the tables again. That's a good thing. That said, if the spoilers are in fact correct...it's going to be a long six months 'til we find out how the situation resolves itself...--Uncle Mikey 11:12, 9 March 2006 (CST)

Well, actually, numbertwelve was right! I don't know who he/she is, but (s)he knew what'll happen exactly in Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II Anyway, it's the best ep so far! --Nyiz 16:14, 11 March 2006 (CST)

The Peace Proposal

I haven't actually seen "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I", yet (I don't have cable, so I'm basically watching via DVD as time allows), but reading the summary, I see no mention of the Cylon peace proposal in the story as aired. It looks as though the preliminary data for the episodes was somewhat misleading, and that the peace proposal won't come until Part II. The Part II article, however, still reflects the old information. Should this be changed now? Or just wait for Friday's airing and the full summary?--Uncle Mikey 10:32, 4 March 2006 (CST)

Speechless

Holy crap they turned everything on its head. I can't think of a better way of stating the obvious. ONE YEAR LATER!?!?!? Crap. Rocky8311 22:15, 10 March 2006 (CST)

Yep...and we'll have to wait about that frakkin' long to find out WTF happens next...:)

Joe McCullough 22:23, 10 March 2006 (CST)

Well, look at it this way - if they ever want to bring Boxey back due to chronology issues, they now have an excuse. Actually, I'm surprised they didn't have the character (if not the actor) doing a cameo in the schooltent.--み使い Mitsukai 23:23, 10 March 2006 (CST)

I personally was asking, "Where's the kicker?" Well, nothing like a second Cylon occupation to do that for you. As for October...hell, they haven't even started shooting the season yet. --Sgtpayne 22:32, 10 March 2006 (CST)

You really have to find it pretty ironic that Baltar's fraked over the Colonies again. He gives Gina the bomb, fraks her, she blows up Cloud 9 (and Gods know how many ships she took with her in that blast) and Baltar forces everyone to colonize the plantet... and the Cylons find it because of the nuclear blast. How's that for a kicker? -- Joe Beaudoin 22:36, 10 March 2006 (CST)

Katee Sackhoff has to grow out her hair. She can't keep using that wig all season. Well, and the writers haven't figured out what the hell they're going to do now :P Philwelch 23:06, 10 March 2006 (CST)

I'm not sure when this episode was filmed, but she still has a month to go before they start shooting Season 3, according to SciFi. I'm sure Moore and friends have plenty of ideas to go with. The questions posted for this episode should give some possible ideas, if they even read this thing. :P --Sgtpayne 23:22, 10 March 2006 (CST)

That was totally awesome. --Peter Farago 01:37, 11 March 2006 (CST)

I was on pins and needles the entire time. It was so good! --Shane 11:56, 11 March 2006 (CST)

Well Then...

Wasn't that something. I glanced over the rumors prior, but it has to be seen to get the real effect. That, and I was hoping they were dead wrong. --Michael 22:16, 10 March 2006 (CST)

I thought generally the execution of these spoilers was much better than my expections. --Frankie Gouge 00:10, 11 March 2006 (EST)

"Rampant speculation" re Starbuck/Conoy connection

I don't think that the analysis section is the place for something with little backing... at least currently.

Although this is rampant speculation, given the warped obsession/relationship that Leoben has with Starbuck, is it possible that Starbuck's stolen egg cells from "The Farm" were fertilized with genetic material from the Leoben model to create a new Hybrid? The Cylons do seem to think she's "special".

Anyone agree or disagree? -- Joe Beaudoin 23:00, 10 March 2006 (CST)

To expand my point further, Conoy believed that Starbuck was special. Just because Conoy is a Cylon doesn't mean the Cylons share his belief. -- Joe Beaudoin 23:00, 10 March 2006 (CST)

No arguements here. I've always been fuzzy on the exact parameters of the "analysis" section, however, this thought occurred to me when I remembered that A) They said that Starbuck's missing ovaries would be mentioned before the end of the season, B) It's going to be a major plot point in season 3.--The Merovingian 23:03, 10 March 2006 (CST)

Well, in keeping with the original inspiration for the Wiki -- The Lurker's Guide to B5 -- the analysis section has always analyzed the episode. For instance, what the episode had to say, how that fit in to the grand tapestry, how that fit into real life, and things of that nature. -- Joe Beaudoin 23:12, 10 March 2006 (CST)

Long live the Lurkers guide! Best guide ever. There's also a B5 wiki being created (see my user page for the link). --Sgtpayne 23:25, 10 March 2006 (CST)

DubyaBaltar

I'd never put this in the actual wiki article, but does it strike anyone else who many jabs they're getting it at another ridiculously incompetent president? "I don't have to listen to the facts...I'm the president". etc. Remember, Remember the Fifth of November.--The Merovingian 23:08, 10 March 2006 (CST)

Though I don't think GWB has harems. Mr. Nice Gaius seems to have him beat there. -- Joe Beaudoin 23:11, 10 March 2006 (CST)

I thought it was a reference to Roslin and Adar's statements about "the nice thing about being President..." --Redwall 23:13, 10 March 2006 (CST)

Well, Adar said that first. --The Merovingian 23:15, 10 March 2006 (CST)

Plus, Baltar was good friends with Adar prior to the attack. The womanizing was just good 'ol self-serving Baltar. And, when was Gaius ever nice? --Sgtpayne 23:28, 10 March 2006 (CST)

See the dialogue section of Six Degrees of Separation for your answer Sgtpayne. -- Joe Beaudoin 23:31, 10 March 2006 (CST)

Just checked the page requested, and I'm not sure that's helping the argument. The statement is defensive in nature. --Sgtpayne 23:37, 10 March 2006 (CST)

Does anyone remember...

... that crack Cottle made to Cally regarding women talking * (Actually, the good Doctor said "Complain") even when their jaws are wired shut? If so, we should note it under the dialogue section and perhaps on Cottle's page (he seems to have a penchant for sexist dialogue). -- Joe Beaudoin 23:18, 10 March 2006 (CST)

You know, Joe, I don't know why you point out "Cottle made a sexist remark here" the times that he does (Downloaded, etc.) I mean that's the type of character he is. I mean, we wouldn't list off "well, Archie Bunker did this sexist thing" in an All in the Family episode guide. --The Merovingian 23:22, 10 March 2006 (CST)

Good point. Still, since it is a part of his personality, I believe it should be noted appropriately. -- Joe Beaudoin 23:29, 10 March 2006 (CST)

Got it. On a side note, there are lots of really sexist things Cottle could have said about a woman who can't open her mouth, so maybe he should get some credit for holding back... --JohnH 10:39, 11 March 2006 (CST)

None of us, neither the show or any users here, had even had that implication at any time enter our minds. Complete non sequitor. Disgusting to bring up such crudeness, Mr.JohnH. --The Merovingian 11:38, 11 March 2006 (CST)

Source?

"Tyrol's union speech alludes to Mario Savio's address during the Free Speech Movement at Berkeley in 1964."-->Can I get confirmation on that?--The Merovingian 23:22, 10 March 2006 (CST)

This is confirmed. --Sgtpayne 23:34, 10 March 2006 (CST)

Thanks. Great that the show is so political.--The Merovingian 23:41, 10 March 2006 (CST)

I don't think it's political as much as it is human. This is "naturalistic" science fiction, after all. --Sgtpayne 23:56, 10 March 2006 (CST)

Gina's Scars

We can clearly see that Gina's back is still badly scarred from her treatment on Pegasus in this episode. However, I seem to recall her back being completely healed in "Epiphanies". Can anybody confirm? --Peter Farago 02:02, 11 March 2006 (CST)

Er, they're on her lower/mid back, while when she was wearing the tank top, you could only see her upper shoulder blades. --The Merovingian 11:42, 11 March 2006 (CST)

Playa

At the end of the episode (near the surrender), I thought I saw "Miss Exclusive", though it may have just been a similar-looking blonde. Can someone check this? --Redwall 11:02, 11 March 2006 (CST)

She's not in the credits. --The Merovingian 15:03, 11 March 2006 (CST)

Survivor count

There's a drop of 29 between part 1 and 2: "A more reasonable explanation is that there was a late update in the survivor count that took into account those who died off-screen during the Cylon attack on the Pegasus in "The Captain's Hand". Soldiers who are killed are often listed as MIA (Missing in Action) until they can be confirmed as KIA (Killed in Action). In the aftermath of the attack on the Pegasus, it would have taken a while to determine the exact number of crewmen and pilots killed. Also, there were probably a number of crewmen who died from injuries afterwards. As a result, a delay in updating the survivor count is quite likely"--->No. The survivor count at the beginning of Part 1 would have accounted for these losses. Part 2 takes place weeks, maybe even 2 months past "Captain's Hand"; even "Downloaded" comes in before there. 2 episodes and about 2 months passed, and we saw no further losses from Captain's Hand beyond the 5 on screen. And the Survivor Count is omniscient. --The Merovingian 15:05, 11 March 2006 (CST)

Once would assume that the Fleet has it share of black market thugs and suicidal people... Not everything has to be Cylon related. Just a thought. -- Joe Beaudoin 16:22, 11 March 2006 (CST)

Yes, and I have always argued as such...but then that makes the static pop count from end of Captain's Hand through LDYB part I unrealistic itself. --The Merovingian 16:24, 11 March 2006 (CST)

Well, one would assume that people are reported as missing prior to being reported as dead. Hence the seemingly unrealistic count changes. -- Joe Beaudoin 16:32, 11 March 2006 (CST)

Even though I STILL think those losses are most likely late figures from "The Captain's Hand" (I'm not going to argue about this), another possible reason for the drop could be the results of election-related riots/murders. Stuff like that happens. Either that or the writers just screwed up.--GreenDalek 16:45, 11 March 2006 (CST)

And, ultimately, that is the problem... it's all about thought, not fact. Until we know for certain why these variances occur (and why they register when they do), we could think about it until our brains cry for more oxygen. -- Joe Beaudoin 16:58, 11 March 2006 (CST)

Judging by our current standards and conventions, and just logic, no, it is impossible for these to be "left over" number from 3 full episodes ago. Think what you want, but don't add it back to the page. --The Merovingian 17:49, 11 March 2006 (CST)