Talk:Scar/Archive 1

I'd like to point out that the Template box at the bottom of each episode page is wrong: "Scar" comes before "Sacrifice", not after it. This needs to be fixed but I don't know how to do this. --Ricimer 01:25, 6 January 2006 (EST)

Plausible Parallel?

Is it possible that this episode is a parallel to the episode in TOS in which there is a mano-e-mano showdown between a Human and a Cylon? I'm curious as to the possibility that RDM is taking each of TOS's episodes and "outdoing" them, both in believeability, realism, and intensity.--Hawke

Almost certainly not. There is no TOS Viper vs. Ace Raider thing. It's actually a staple of many scifi tv shows for several years; the "Red Baron" episode. The good guys are at war with another race, and the hero must go up against the enemy's ace pilot. Notably, "Space: Above and Beyond" did this when McQueen took out the ace Chig pilot, Chiggy von Rictoffen (sarcastic nickname they came up with for him). Long story short, no this is not at all from TOS. This is a classic military story, one of those things that doesn't even need to be scifi. --Ricimer 16:15, 28 January 2006 (EST)

Abandon all hope, Ricimer. -- Joe Beaudoin 22:07, 28 January 2006 (EST)

The Gods don't want to hear from Starbuck now. Because she's about to go out in that Viper and remove one of Their creations from Their universe. And when she gets back, she's going to drink a bottle of ambrosia as if it were Scar's frakking bio-mechanical blood, and celebrate his death! -- Ricimer 22:14, 28 January 2006 (EST)

Actually, it's funny that all the episodes that have been outdone were named after they were finished being written and the writers had no prior knowledge of the episodes they were homages to. I got this from the Battlestar Galactica Official Companion. BTW, I saw that Space ABove and Beyond ep and that;s what i thought of when I first heard of the Scar Raider. --Ltcrashdown 22:16, 28 January 2006 (EST)

LOL! Just finished watching that episode, and it's one of the best lines ever from that series. Ricimer paraphrased it well. --Sgtpayne 19:41, 4 February 2006 (EST)

Even when McQueen quotes the Iliad at Chiggy before he finishes him off? "Looking darkly upon Hector, swift footed Achilles answered, 'I cannot forgive you. As there are no trustworthy oaths between men and lions, there can be no love between you and me. Before then to glut with his blood, Ares, the god who fights under the shield's guard. Now the time comes for you to be a spearman and a bold warrior. You will pay in a lump for all the sorrows of my companions you have killed in your spear's fury. None of that "mercy to our enemies" stuff, "Cylons can be people too" things, no; straightfoward revenge.  :) --Ricimer 20:07, 4 February 2006 (EST)

Did they do it?

Ricimer, since I know you tape the episodes, I'll let you watch it again before removing that question. I think you'll agree with me that it's very clearly implied that Apollo stops things before they get that far. --Peter Farago 02:10, 4 February 2006 (EST)

I actually watched this with several friends, and we got into a raging debate over whether this happened or not. About a third said no, a third said yes (including me), and a third said they weren't sure at all. It's sort of like how after "Pegasus", a lot of people were asking if Boomer got raped or not, because the editing was (intentionally) chaotic and confusing. However, we all know from the podcast of that that there were two versions and that was officially the "not raped" version.

The podcast for this episode is vague; he mentions only once the idea that "they'd get so drunk that they'd be in a state where they'd try to have sex with each other"--->OKAY, it wasn't quite that, but the point is he uses the word "try" in such a context (I listened to the podcast with friends) that after repeat listening...It didn't really give evidence one way or the other, plus these weren't the guys that directed it, etc. When *I* saw it, I got the impression that, through careful editing......frak. I can't put this more delicately forgive me. Frak. Well, to cut through it using Ad-libs; I thought that after Starbuck gets her panties pulled down, editing gets chaotic; Starbuck spreads her _Adjective_ _Noun_ and Apollo proceeds to _Verb_ her _Adjective_ _Noun_ with his own (conspicuous) _Adjective_ _Noun_ however Starbuck is proceeding too rough and really fast and Apollo keeps telling her to "slow down", which in context could mean *any number of things*. Starbuck then removes herself from the "presence" of his _Adverb_ _Adjective_ _Noun_ just as (off camera) he yanks his towel (or whatever) up, so when we actually see him in his first wideshot, he appears to have not removed his towel, when in reality he did but put it back off camera. --Ricimer 02:30, 4 February 2006 (EST)

I really didn't find it at all ambiguous, and even if they did accomplish penetration extremely briefly, it's a crass thing to speculate about. The emotional consequences for Kara and Lee are the same regardless. --Peter Farago 19:23, 4 February 2006 (EST)

I am not being crass. I literally turned to the person next to me and said "Hey, wait a minute, did they just do it?" and no one was sure. It's not like I expect us to get any conclusive answeres based on analysis; I'm just saying "we're not sure"--Ricimer 19:28, 4 February 2006 (EST)

When I was watching it and Apollo had his hand on her ass, I turned to my friend and said, "It's about time" but I spoke too soon...--Bane Grievver 22:28, 4 February 2006 (EST)

Keep in mind that the editing is chaotic enough that they start fooling around in the pilots lounge...and wind up going at it in one of the bunk rooms. I seriously doubt they got that far. My impression was that Apollo was working on foreplay...and Starbuck was rushing things...*shrug* in the end...who cares?-- Stratohead

Launch Gaffe

Was it just me, or when Starbuck and Kat launched from the Galactica in Viper VIIs, didn't the tube sequence show a Viper II?--み使い Mitsukai 02:21, 4 February 2006 (EST)

Noticed this as well. Apparently the show has no stock footage of a Mk. VII launch sequence. --Peter Farago 02:22, 4 February 2006 (EST)

Unless they referred to Kat or Starbuck talking over wireless from within the launch tube, this could be explained as being the "other" Vipers flying on patrol for other parts of the asteroid belt.--Ricimer 02:32, 4 February 2006 (EST)

Then it's a case of bad editing, as it implies (at least from how I saw it) that Kat's flying a II, as we saw Starbuck getting into a VII.--み使い Mitsukai 02:35, 4 February 2006 (EST)

I think what Ricimer means is that we can intnetionally misconstrue that as seeing someone else launching, even though, in actuality, it was an editing goof.--Day 20:20, 5 February 2006 (EST)

Yes, we could, but it would be quite disingenuous to do so. I think we should call it the way it is. --Peter Farago 20:24, 5 February 2006 (EST)

Well, depends on whether you want to start talking about how the Vipers changed appearances or whatever by assuming that the mistake makes canon. Anyway... I was just trying to clarify. --Day 21:20, 5 February 2006 (EST)

You are all driving me mad

Please, for the love of god, use the "edit" link on the section you are working on. This allows other editors to work on other sections without incurring edit collisions. --Peter Farago 02:37, 4 February 2006 (EST)

This place is getting really busy lately. Collisions are becoming more frequent, even on talk pages. Not sure if there is long-term help for this (or any wiki). --Spencerian 10:42, 5 February 2006 (EST)

Props Given on... Old Props!

Hey, did anyone else spot that Landram in the openning shot?--Ricimer 19:31, 4 February 2006 (EST)

I noticed it but didn't know what it was (not a TOS fan). Nice catch! --Redwall 22:41, 4 February 2006 (EST)

So that's what they were called! I remember seeing them, made me smile when I watched the episode a 2nd time. --Bane Grievver 22:28, 4 February 2006 (EST)

Maybe somebody could get a shot of the landram for use on the References page? --Steelviper 10:04, 10 February 2006 (EST)

Where did the music come from?

I swear that I have heard the background music before... It starts right at the end of "So say we all", and bleeds over through the workout scene. Where is it from, it is making me crazy?!?

The Deer Hunter. Also, please sign your comments. --Redwall 15:05, 5 February 2006 (EST)

You may sign your comments by using the a string of four tildes: ~~~~. -- Joe Beaudoin 16:04, 5 February 2006 (EST)

Thank you so much for the origin of the music. It makes even more sense now... Yikes what tie ins this show sneaks in. ~~ LeslieW

Picture

That's a cool pic and all, but it's already on the Scar (Raider) page, have the entire episode on my drive. I was trying to think of a scene that nicely summarized the whole episode, but I couldn't pick one. Any ideas on what I should take a cap of? --BMS 16:26, 5 February 2006 (EST)

The first screen after Kat shoots him, immediately after his wing gets sheered off and there's a cloud of blood everywhere...but not TOO long after that, because as he crashes he gets so banged up that at the end you can't tell it's a Raider anymore; the FIRST shot, just as the wing comes off. Also, possibly one of Scar coming out of the sun just as Starbuck puts her finger up, or one of them fighting him with contrails coming off of their Vipers because of the dust. Upload a few and we'll pick. --Ricimer 16:29, 5 February 2006 (EST)

I thought about the sun one, but it makes a poor cap. Here are the other two, plus one I thought was good as well:

Any other ideas, lemme know. --BMS 22:47, 5 February 2006 (EST)

I like the "Scar-Firing" picture, the right most one. It's easy to see without actually having to click on it. --Bane Grievver 22:56, 5 February 2006 (EST)

That's my favorite as well. --Peter Farago 23:05, 5 February 2006 (EST)

I hate to be picky, but: the one with contrails has the camera so far away that the Vipers look too small, "Scar Firing" is good, but for a character named "Scar" the pic is of his least "scarred" side of his head, and although I like the Scar-Death one, I think that out of context it might be confusing. --Ricimer 23:06, 5 February 2006 (EST)

Why don't we use the "Scar firing" pic for this article, and leave the existing one alone on Scar (Raider)? --Peter Farago 23:10, 5 February 2006 (EST)

In a Room Somewhere...

Don't you have the feeling that, in a room somewhere, Richard (Hatch) and Dirk (Benedict) are looking at each other after watching the "moment of drunken resolve" scene between their one-time characters, and... there is a very awkward silence. What do you suppose is going through their minds? :) -- Hawke 00:03, 6 February 2006 (EST)

Nothing that they probably haven't read before in "slash" fan fiction about their characters before. Besides, Kirk/Spock stuff came (no pun intended) years before. It is a funny thing to imagine, though. --Spencerian 09:14, 6 February 2006 (EST)

For several years now, whenever I am at a convention where both Richard Hatch and Dirk Bennidict are guests...they seem to do their best to avoid even looking in each others direction.-- Stratohead

They have their own issues between each other that originated from the original series... -- Joe Beaudoin 18:06, 6 February 2006 (EST)

Kats Costume Change?

towards the end of the second act, we get the confrontation between Kat and Starbuck, where Kat punches Starbuck, just before Apollo comes in and orders them "Skids Up in 49 minutes." At this point Kat is wearing her flight suit (well...half wearing it.)... next time we see her she is wearing her duty uniform (blues) walking through the memorial hallway, pining up the picture of "Beano"'s(?) girlfriend...then back in her flight suit about to jump in her viper. Are we supposed to infer that this was her recollection/flashback while she was about to take off for her mission? or that with only 49 minutes to prepare for her C.A.P. she took the time to go change into her Blues...wander down to Memorial Hall...then go back..and resuit up for her C.A.P.? -- Stratohead

Well yeah, RDM mentioned that in the podcast; just don't read into everything so much. Yeah, a lot of camerawork/director stuff could be a flashback for the purposes of telling a story; I mean lots of shows intercut this kind of stuff. It's not big revelation. --Ricimer 18:02, 6 February 2006 (EST)

Scar's Kill Count

Mentioned in this episode, I believe Scar killed 5 viper pilots: Reilly, Beano, BB, Duck, and JoJo. I think Duck was the kid that came to Starbuck for advice since she was telling him to follow BB's lead and never turn but the conversation was a little confusing to me, and it sounded like both were splashed. So 5 Vipers were downed by Scar in this episode and probably a couple others in Resurrection Ship Pt II and mayber earlier episodes. I am certain I heard the name Duck but was confused a little by Starbuck's ommission of his name on the list at the end... -- StrayCat0

• Absolutely not. Duck was alive and well. He can be clearly seen in the finale toasting scene at the end. The audio you hear was of Duck shouting at BB to get away from Scar, but that's because BB got separated from Duck. Duck was fine. He was omitted from the list of the dead, because he is not dead.--Ricimer 17:58, 6 February 2006 (EST)

"I'm not dead yet..." --Day 16:29, 10 February 2006 (EST)

Disambiguation

Does anybody object to Scar pointing to a disambiguation between the episode and the Raider itself, rather than going straight to the episode? That's what we did with Pegasus. Rocky8311 11:44, 3 March 2006 (CST)

I prefer the Scar pattern to the Pegasus pattern. The disambig page doesn't contain anything meaningful, and if you intended to go to the other article you're still only one click away from it. Scar (Raider) and Scar (the episode) are both destinations, where a disambig page is just a road sign. In fact, I'd even support doing the same with Pegasus if not for the fact that there are three different possible Pegasus locations. Actually, thanks for the reminder, as I try to keep up with the Special:Disambiguations, and Pegasus is a common offender there. --Steelviper 12:12, 3 March 2006 (CST)

If we only have two things it's easier to have a link at the top of the page like we do, saying "for "Scar the Raider" see this page...",etc. Pegasus has a disambiguation page because there are like 5-6 things under that name. Most times, we don't need disambiguation pages (we do use them for like "Adama" or pilot callsigns re-used from the original series like Apollo and Starbuck. That's it. No need for a disambiguation page. --The Merovingian 13:53, 3 March 2006 (CST)

"Fullmetal Alchemist" name references?

My addition to the notes section:

"Majahal" and "Scar" are also the names of villains in the anime series Fullmetal Alchemist.

was undone with the following comment:

"The Merovingian (→Notes - I'm sorry but I've check wikipedia and googled, but there is no character named Majahal in FMA)"

Here are a couple refs:

• from Wikipedia's "Episodes of Fullmetal Alchemist":

While on their way to Central to try to take the State Alchemy Examination, Ed and Al take a detour to meet an alchemist named Majahal. Majahal’s name appeared frequently in their father’s correspondence in connection with human transmutation.

• official site (sorry, it's Flash, so I can't deep link... note also the different spelling):

Majhal is a very well respected Alchemist working to better the lives of the people living in his village.  Ed and Al learn of him by seeing his name in letters exchanged between the lone Alchemist and their father regarding human transmutation.

If the only similarly-named character was "Scar", this would be too trivial to note, but Majahal/Majhal -> Majahaul is a more plausible candidate for a reference.