Talk:The Eye of Jupiter/Archive3

I wonder if it has to do with that big red spot... *rollseyes* --Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 18:48, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

I'm more reminded of that Writer's Podcast thing, you know when they're saying "How many more times are we going to find an artifact like the Arrow of Apollo and have to search for them all? That feels like going back to the well too many times, I mean what are we going to say, "Athena has 10 sacred toenail clipping scattered across space, you have to find them all...?" :) --The Merovingian ^{(C - E)} 18:49, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

i'm thinking along the lines of some jewelry. --Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 18:57, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

It sounds like a good plotline actually. --The Merovingian ^{(C - E)} 19:05, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

Merv - you just made me spill forth mein coca cola whilst reading the section about the sacred toenail clippings - thats too much for 3am on a sunday morning! Still, plot looks good, just wish Season 3 would hurry up and AIR dammit! :) --Fordsierra4x4 21:08, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

No, really, they make a joke about "Athena's toenail clippings" in that writer's podcast thing. --The Merovingian ^{(C - E)} 21:12, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

I have a few possible meanings for 'eye of Jupiter' --starryniteynite

1) Relatively obscure name for NGC 3242, a planetary nebula (A ring of illuminated gas expanding out from a sun-like star that's exhausted its fuel, and has lost its outer layers) a few thousand light years from Earth. Most astronomers call this 'the Ghost of Jupiter' instead, though some Hubble images have used this name. Its not a very unique PN (tho it has some gas streamers we can't quite explain), but it could be used as a navigational marker like M8 (the lagoon nebula). It is a very pretty nebula :)

2) "Eye of Jupiter" was the Greek/Roman name for the sun, which lead to today's 'all seeing eye' symbol of the free masons and on the pyramid in US currency

3)Adama=Zeus=Jupiter...yes, they tend to use Greek vs. Roman names, but the titles are not always consistent with this convention, and we have also seen evidence for non Greek mythological names (Isis, for example). The rest of it could be wordplay too...'eye' might refer to someone acting as Adama's eyes, rather than his eyes literally (just as 'The captain's hand refereed to Lee acting as Gardner's XO, or his hand, rather than some captain's literal hand)

4)A reference to Jupiter's big red spot, a huge hurricane-like storm on the planet's surface. Just like the "bastille Day" title, this could reference something in the episode, but not directly...they might travel through a similar storm. This has actually been done before in the miniseries, when Galactica travels into the storm at Ragnar

5) The tried and true, ancient object meaning...just like the arrow of Apollo directly references a character, but has no link to the character himself, this could just be a pretty piece of bling..

Personally, I would love #1, but only because it'd make me 2/2 for BSG objects in my thesis and I'm a total, unabashed geek. I think its probably #2, however, and they find some sort of navigational means of finding Earth (like a picture of Earth w/ distances& directions to three pulsars or very unique objects

Duelling Sharons

So did anyone else get a sense of animosity/jealousy between the two Sharons? While it seems that Boomer has accepted her place amongst the Cylons and no longer considers herself a part of the humans, it also seems that she's a bit jealous of Athena's "taking her place", if you could call it that. Likewise, it also seemed that aside from her duties as a Colonial officer, Athena's refusal to let Boomer in with Adama was also somewhat out of personal distrust, ironically the same distrust of the Cylons that her fellow Colonial colleagues have.

Also, while Boomer told Athena about Hera's condition out of possible concern of the child (possible strain of humanity left in her? Cylon imperative? Or something else?), seems to me that Boomer enjoyed bursting her "sister"'s bubble on that. Talk about sibling rivalry there.

It'll be interesting to see if there will be any further Sharon vs. Sharon confrontations in the series.--み使い Mitsukai 23:55, 15 December 2006 (CST)

It was a very, very interesting dynamic. In any other show, we would have had a knock-down dragout "catfight." You hit the nail on the head. This episode was prime stuff. And, we on the wiki should be commended: our Galactica nuke count is right on the money! (Either that, or the show is using us as a source! :) --Spencerian 00:20, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Does that mean we can finally change the "Class-D Nuclear Warhead" to something completely different, since their nukes aren't Class-D? :P --Madbrood 10:42, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Image

Let's find an image that actually occurs in this episode. Maybe the wide shot of Tyrol in the temple? --Peter Farago 02:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Heh which one? to me it seems the Chief was a bit wide in ALL shots ; how could he gain weight while the fleet was starving? the chief definitely deserves the Lee Adama Fat-Ass trophy --lordmutt 03:10, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Maybe it was Chief, and not Dr. Cottle, that got all of Kat's energy bars from the last ep.--み使い Mitsukai 12:25, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Did Starbuck survive?

Horray for the carelessness of adverts! Within ten minutes we knew the answer to that one. --Mars 09:14, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Aside from that, it's going to continue the cycle of Soap Opera unease there, if Dee's the one sent to go get Starbuck back. Can't wait to see the uncomfortable stares on that one, especially if (as I suspect) Dee set up Starbuck to be the "eye in the sky" hoping the Cylons would shoot her down.--み使い Mitsukai 11:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Who else was supposed to fly the mission? Looks like Lee and Kara are the only two qualified pilots on the ground and Lee is needed in overall command. --Serenity 12:34, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Too good to be true

When we Baltar's voice over Galactica's speaker, the closed caption actually identifies him as "Cylon over speaker". I know that's not really meant to be taken as anything, but with all the speculation, it seems like a shining goof, or maybe even someone taking a good piss out of the whole thing. --Mars 09:14, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Nuking the Planet

Does anyone else think that the nuclear missiles have the ability to be detonated remotely, before they reach their target? --Madbrood 10:44, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Not to mention abort code transmissions, etc. Makes you wonder if the missiles were set for "one shot, one kill" mode, where they could not be recalled.--み使い Mitsukai 11:39, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Or perhaps the missiles can be aborted, until they reach a critical flight time. Could make for a very tense moment or two. --Madbrood 14:51, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Is it just me or didn't he actually give the order to fire. He said "release of nuclear weapons is now authorized". That might sound strange, but I took that to be a preliminary order to firing. For example that now even Tigh would be able to launch them on his say --Serenity 15:03, 18 December 2006 (CST)

No, you're correct on that; essentially all they were doing was opening the "barn doors". I was discussing the hypotheticals of the missiles, if they should be launched in the next ep.--み使い Mitsukai 19:33, 18 December 2006 (CST)

WTF moment

I was on the Karl Agathon page, updating it for this ep's news, when I came across this old picture. Considering how Kara's painting looks and that she's religious (though not indoctrinated in any sort of clerical form, unlike Chief Tyrol's parentage), does anyone think that (in hindsight), this may have been a hint to the Eye itself?--み使い Mitsukai 12:37, 16 December 2006 (CST)

It actually makes a lot of sense... Taking Zeus to mean Admiral Adama, and that Kara Thrace is the go-to pilot for reconnaissance missions, AND the paintings on the walls, we have a plausible theory in the works! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Alcibiades (talk • contribs).

Are you kidding me?! They set this episode up a year ago! --Galactageek 19:39, 16 December 2006 (CST)

I find it pretty hard to believe too, but that painting really really really looks like the art in the temple. --Saforrest 20:41, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Maybe they though it would be a nice idea to take that painting, put it in the Temple more than a season later, and see if we notice. --Catrope 09:20, 18 December 2006 (CST)

It's a painting in her room and part of the column in the temple. :) --Galactageek 01:31, 19 December 2006 (CST)

So Starbuck is an artist. She paints The Eye of Jupiter. Is it a known symbol or is this the first time anyone else has seen it? If it's not well-known, what does that say about Starbuck? Doesn't it make her prescient? Maybe her true calling is as an oracle. --Galactageek 01:29, 19 December 2006 (CST)

18 Casualties & Relevance to "The Passage"

If 18 people were lost from The Passage episode, that means that 17 (at most) were aboard those two lost civilian ships, right? I'm only bringing this up to clarify what transpired — from that, and what we saw, the Raptors would pair up with a civilian ship, and that ship's passenger complement would be transferred onto Galactica (more heavily shielded, combat FTL drive) for the ferry run through the cluster. The civilian ship would then be crewed by an absolute bare minimum number of crewers. Then, when the group reached the other side of the cluster, the passengers would be transported back to their ships (if they survived the passage), the ships would remain at "Algae-planet", and Galactica would turn around and go back to the original side to repeat the cycle over again for a new group of civilian ships?

Am I reading/viewing this right? -- Hawke 13:53, 16 December 2006 (CST)

The ships were manned by skeleton crews. That was even mentioned in "The Passage" --Serenity 14:01, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Don't forget that 14 days have transpired. there could have been more births in the fleet. I just came up with the difference from the two episodes--Quig 16:10, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Humanoid Cylons recognize each other on sight

While back on New Craprica, Number 3 knew right away that it was Sharon Agathon. Of course, who else would be trying to remove the ship's launch keys?

This episode, we see that Athena knew on sight that this Number Eight was Boomer. Interesting.

Can Cylons tell on sight which of the copies they are? It's already established that the bulletheads can't.

Note in last weeks episode, Baltar was able to pick The D'anna number three out of the hallway on sight, even though there is an identically dressed number three in the same hallway. Belay-down-your-burdens 16:50, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Those two instances do prove that they do recognize one another, which was hinted at in the "Cylon Agent" page. I guess now it's more than a hint. --Sauron18 16:54, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Names of marines

Has anyone heard (or seen in close captions) the names of the marines that were with Starbuck and Dualla? I know one of them is Fischer, but the other three? I heard something like: Criggs, Verek, Ditko. Ausir 17:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)

According to the caption, it's Griggs and Varrick; the spelling/pronouncation of the third lad is anyone else's guess. For some reason, the closed caption for this episode doesn't pick up everything for me. --Mars 09:48, 17 December 2006 (CST)

Location of the Eye?

At the end of the episode, Tyrol says something about "the sky will open, and the eye will be revealed." Did that make anyone else think of the star going nova? -- Benabik 22:15, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Good idea, but is it possible that such a "blowup" could be predicted in the sacred scrolls thousands of years ago? -- SuperMMX 01:15, 17 December 2006 (CST)

Why not? A race of humans capable of traveling from Kobol to Earth probably knows at least as much about stellar evolution as the Colonials Xenophon10k 07:39, 17 December 2006 (CST)

The Sacred Scrolls have so far contained information about Laura Roslin being sick, Sharon Agathon helping them to find the Tomb of Athena, and more... In addition to various prophetic dreams... Sure, they could have predicted it. -- Benabik 11:26, 17 December 2006 (CST)

When Tyrol commented about blowing up the Temple, I already thought "What if the Eye is INSIDE the pillar and they have to blow it up to get it out?" But surely an explosion destroying the entire system would destroy the Eye as well? And if it didn't, the Eye would not be easy to find between the debris of an entire planet. But blowing up a pillar doesn't exactly qualify as "the sky will open"... Maybe it refers to blowing up the roof or something like that... --Catrope 12:04, 17 December 2006 (CST)

Note the shaft of light streaming across the central pillar in the final scenes of the episode. Perhaps something will be revealed when it becomes centered upon the prominent symbol seen there. --Spidey3 12:29, 18 December 2006 (CST)

That was the way my mind was working. --Madbrood 14:39, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Boomer in the brig?

Did Boomer get thrown in the galactica brig once Athena pointed her out? Was she allowed to return to the Basestars? Bstone 01:49, 17 December 2006 (CST)

I doubt it because they probably would have it done right there rather than holding her outside first. I'm sure they let her leave with the others and advised her not to let the door hit on the arse on the way out. --Mars 09:46, 17 December 2006 (CST)

Besides, the least thing they need on Galactica right now would be Boomer to break out of the brig, throw on a uniform and have a "Guess the Sharon" contest. Aside from that, I expect that kind of trite plotwork I just mentioned from lesser sci-fi series, not this one.--み使い Mitsukai 19:37, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Summary

We really need a longer summary up there, the only point it currently mentions is kind of random -_- --Catrope 10:58, 17 December 2006 (CST)

D'anna's search for the five vs. the Temple of Five

I haven't seen much discussion on the connection between "the five" Cylons and the Temple of the Five. Since the Temple was built by the 13th tribe, a connection doesn't seem likely in a conventional linear timeline; but like the painting in Starbuck's apartment, it's hard to dismiss as a mere coincidence.

Such a connection does, however, clear up some verisimilitude issues for me – namely, the rate at which the Cylon's biological technology advanced in relation to both Cylon and Colonial conventional technology.

In less than 40 years' time, the Cylons were able to develop the Cylon Agents – and in such a way that made indiscernable from humans – and all of the ressurection technology that went with it. Meanwhile, their conventional, mechanical technology hasn't made nearly the same leaps. And Colonial technology hasn't advanced much at all. Pegasus was a much more formidable vessel than Galactica, but only in terms of size and firepower. Technologically speaking, they weren't that dissimilar. Everyone's still using nuclear missles as their most advanced form of weaponry.

Clearly, the Cylons have had a little help. Now, with dual references to a group of five that must not be named, we're starting to get an idea of from where that help may have come.

I'm not sure how that jibes with the Cylon's monotheistic religion (also established within those 40 years), versus the Colonies' polytheism, but I'm sure Mr.Moore has it worked out.

How great it is to have a show with a fleshed out story line already established, as opposed to the "make it up as we go" approach to shows like Star Trek (all incarnations), X-Files and Lost over our last 40 years. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tylonius (talk • contribs).

To Battlestar's credit, it did take a while to flesh out the story from a viewer's perspective, but what we know is quite intriguing. Their God and the Colonial gods may be one and the same, and may change how the Cylons treat the Colonials and vice versa. I don't think the five faces will be all shown, but we might see one. And yes, it is good to enjoy a show that makes a greater effort to maintain a consistent storyline. --Spencerian 09:01, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Human Nicknames

I cropped the following from the episode summary. Nothing against either point, just taking it off until somebody can figure out how to reconcile it into a single level deep bullet point (or points). Cropped text:

• This is the first time the Cylons use "human" names on the basestar when not speaking to Baltar. D'Anna is named by Caprica-Six and another Number Three. Cavil's name is used by D'Anna.
  • It is possible that these names are nicknames for the Cylons who've been amongst the humans (much like Caprica-Six), but it could also be the writers weaseling out of coming up with numbers for Cavil, Leoben and Simon. In The Passage, D'Anna even mentions having a discussion with "one of the Simons".

Thanks. --Steelviper 08:51, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Err how about:

• This episode marks the first time the Cylons use "human" names when not speaking to Baltar: Caprica-Six and another Three call D'Anna by her human name, who in turn uses Cavil's name. These could be nicknames for Cylons who've been living among humans (cf. Caprica-Six).
• Once again, the writers have dodged the issue of Cavil's, Leoben's and Simon's numbers. In "Torn", Caprica-Six says "The ones you know as Leoben...", in "The Passage" Number Three mentions having a discussion with "one of the Simons" and in this episode a Three simply calls one of the Cavils "Cavil".

Please correct my style here, I didn't know exactly how to quote/paraphrase things like "one of the Simons" etc. --Catrope 09:12, 18 December 2006 (CST)

One bullet point might be enough if the second part is connected with a word like "thus". However we shouldn't use "weasling". It sounds too negative and critical where criticism isn't really needed. Maybe something like "dodging the issue" or "circumventing"? That means the same and isn't as POV.

Btw: episode names aren't italicized, but put in quotation marks --Serenity 10:12, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Edit first post, episode titles quoted instead of italicized, second bullet point reprashed and "weaseling" changed to "dodged". I don't think joining the bullet points with "this" between them is going to make this any clearer. I also don't think it's necessary, as both points may be related but analyse different things (the remaining numbers vs. Cylon naming convention). --Catrope 10:28, 18 December 2006 (CST)

I think the writers are working with established names for convenience. They may not want to create a number yet to not confuse some viewers or there may be a grand scheme of introducing more numbers later in the season or another season that involves the 5 unknown cylon models. They could be maintaining flexibility for themselves in this case. They also know that the people who care the most are us die-hard fans and they can drag us through the mud without giving us more info, but I don't think so with as generous and courteous as Ngarenn is on BW:OC.--Straycat0 11:10, 18 December 2006 (CST)

It wouldn't be too hard to introduce a new number though. We've heard plenty of statements like "We Threes think we can't take the risk.", ideal statements to introduce new numbers with. Of course these numbers aren't a big deal, but die-hard fans tend to like to know these details. --Catrope 11:37, 18 December 2006 (CST)

True. Though the more detail the introduce, the more chances they have to get it wrong. Even with the few model numbers we have revealed RDM sometimes has difficulty keeping them straight, confusing the Eight's (Sharons) with the Three's (D'annas). Either way, we'll be here, documenting. I sometimes wonder if we're (the die-hard detail documenters) aren't his worst nightmares (if we even bothers thinking about us). --Steelviper 14:52, 18 December 2006 (CST)

I always thought it was a nice nod to buckaroo banzai where all the villains had the same first name. Azselendor 22:05, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Question on article

• When did Boomer go over to the Cylons' way of thinking? In this episode she clearly doesn't seem to think of herself as human anymore like she did in "Downloaded."

I had assumed that by LDYB, II that the Cylons had gone over to Boomer and Caprica-Six's way of thinking, hence their (C-six and Boomer) sudden rise to power as well as the sudden Cylon cease-fire. --Steelviper 11:24, 19 December 2006 (CST)