Talk:Race and Ethnicity in the Twelve Colonies/Archive 1

Damned fascinating article, especially in light of the diverse attitudes of the characters. Spencerian 15:49, 28 August 2005 (EDT)

Dualla and Lee

Why are they listed as being a couple? Kuralyov 17:24, 28 August 2005 (EDT)

She checked out his ass in Resistance, and RDM indicated on the podcast that this was a hint for the second half of the season. It's listed with the same level of surety as Baltar's interest in Boomer, anyway. --Peter Farago 17:31, 28 August 2005 (EDT)

Playa Palacios

Who is Playa Palacious? She's listed as an interest of Baltar. Was that the reporter he gave an "exclusive" to after his nomination as VP? Rocky8311 20:11, October 19, 2005 (EDT)

"Palacios" not "Palacious". She is one of the recurring-character reporters and has been in 5 episodes so far. She's the one that Baltar gave an exclusive to in "Colonial Day". --Ricimer 23:28, 19 October 2005 (EDT)

That explains it. The second time the name was listed, it was a typo. Rocky8311 01:24, October 20, 2005 (EDT)

Racial Preference

Noneofyour business would prefer that the paragraph which currently reads:

That being said, some individuals - particularly Gaius Baltar and Kara Thrace - have demonstrated a preference for individuals of their own race. Again, these are not exception-less.

be changed to read:

Some individuals have demonstrated an attraction to several others over the course of the series, both people of their own race and people of other races, notably Kara Thrace and Gaius Baltar.

The point of this section was to explore attitudes toward race and sexuality in the colonies. Stating that some characters don't display a preference one way or another is senseless, since, as established in the paragraph above, this appears to be the default. I understand your desire to change the wording to reflect the facts of the case, but really, I think the better solution here is to change the focus on the evidence within the section to better explore the topic it was meant to.

Basically, your point about Baltar is sound, and this means he should be removed from the section entirely. Thrace, I think, still stands, as she's had at least four sexual encounters with a person of predominantly European decent, and not a single one with anyone else. --Peter Farago 11:59, 20 May 2006 (CDT)

If the point is to determine whether or not there is a preference, then it is incorrect to start with the definitive phrase "these characters have demonstrated a preference." Also, I didn't make a point about Baltar. Noneofyourbusiness 13:17, 20 May 2006 (CDT)

You said "the same-race interactions do not outnumber the interracial ones" in an edit summary, which is true for Baltar, but not Thrace. As for Thrace, I think it's quite safe to say that she's demonstrated a preference. --Peter Farago 13:24, 20 May 2006 (CDT)

Who agrees with me that it's coincidental? Noneofyourbusiness 13:53, 20 May 2006 (CDT)

Two things: first, the "attraction" list is just to conclusively show that people from the Twelve Colonies don't even seem to acknowledge that there are different (what we would call) ethnicities, and only seem to notice what tribe they belong to. Secondly, unless Kandyse's biography describes her as multi-racial or something (and I've missed that), we should stick to calling her "African". Yes, (as a genetics major, I can tell you) on average (bell curve, not universally) the average African-American has 10-25% european genetic material. But really, in the interest of trying to keep everyone from being offended (as it says right on the top of this article) let's just stick to what we had. --The Merovingian ^{(C - E)} 16:55, 20 May 2006 (CDT)

Fact Check: Technically, Kandyse McClure isn't African-American, she's South African according to Wikipedia.org. Not that I'm arguing with your point or anything. --StrayCat0 16:35, 20 May 2006 (PST)

But the word usage "has demonstrated a preference" does offend me. It should be "seems to have demonstrated a preference", in the interest of accuracy. Noneofyourbusiness 18:16, 20 May 2006 (CDT)

I don't see why. "Seems to" is a weasel phrase - it weakens the statement without improving the factual validity. --Peter Farago 18:56, 20 May 2006 (CDT)

It does not weaken the statement and it does improve the factual vailidity. It gives the correct impression that there is only the appearance of a preference and not necessarily the fact. Noneofyourbusiness 20:55, 20 May 2006 (CDT)

The statement is that she has demonstrated a preference, which she has plainly done with her choice of sexual partners. We are certainly not claiming that she has made a statement on the matter. --Peter Farago 00:52, 21 May 2006 (CDT)

Having many relationships with Europeans is NOT the same as demonstrating a preference towards Europeans. Either (a) she rejected other candidates because they were not European, in which case there is a preference for Europeans, or (b) she was attracted to all these people based solely on other characteristics and it is coincidental they were all European, in which case there is no preference for Europeans. Thus "has possibly demonstrated a preference" is the Only accurate (and thus strong) way to write the sentence. The sentence as is is weakened by the existence of other possibilities which it does not account for. Noneofyourbusiness 12:14, 21 May 2006 (CDT)

On second thought, let's leave out this controversial word "preference" altogether, and just say "That being said, at least one individual, Kara Thrace, has only been shown in romantic or sexual relationships with people of her own race, having been involved with..." which is entirely factual. Noneofyourbusiness 12:18, 21 May 2006 (CDT)

I think I'm fine with that. --Peter Farago 12:21, 21 May 2006 (CDT)

Glad it's settled. I don't like arguing. Noneofyourbusiness 14:24, 21 May 2006 (CDT)

Sexuality only mentions heterosexuality

In the Webisodes Face of the Enemy, Gaeta is shown to be involved in a homosexual relationship. Also, Admiral Cain, commander of the Pegasus, was involved in a lesbian relationship with Natalie (a Six). During the webisodes, homosexuality was taken for granted - as nothing special. Certainly it wasn't given the prejudice that Americans give it. And with Admiral Cain's relationship, it was looked at negatively only after it was found that Natalie was a Cylon. --Cerberus 17:54, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

We have an article on sexuality here that addresses all these points. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus} 18:23, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

black (African) characters

Why are most of the visibily black characters identified as being mixed African-European. In patricular I am referring to Dualla, Venner, and Sekou. The only black character listed as being "African" on the page is Sarah Porter who is visibily darker than the other 3. It seems to me someone is imposing a somewhat ignorant view of what sub-Saharan Africans can look like without having European ancestry. Obviously among the 1000s of ethnicities in that group there is a wide range of skin tones and facial features and not every black person with skin that isnt very dark has European ancestry. Unless any of the actors who portray them are known to be of mixed race I believe the other 3 black characters all of whom have very visibile African ancestry should be listed as "African". I went ahead and made this change and think it appropriate unless someone can give a valid reason for listing all of these characters as being mixed African-European. --Colber 12:16, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Updates RE: Caprica Pilot

I don't have the time to do this, but someone needs to update this page in light of certain revelations about Taurons in the Caprica pilot. Same with the page on Language in the 12 Colonies.