Talk:Uniforms (RDM)/Archive2

Battle Dress Uniform

There seem to be two collar variations of the BDU's in Home pt. II, the normal collar like in any dress shirt worn by Apollo, and the Mandarin collar uniform worn by Adama. The Mandarin is the stand up collar that in the new generation uniforms is for comfort under body armor. You can see the difference in the screenshots for home on the reference link in the main article. The big two pics are the one of Apollo with the shouldered rifle and any of the Adama pics were he has the pepperbox aimed at Boomer's head.

I agree. I'll make the change. Also, I may have been wrong about the flight suits. They could be plastic or vinyl instead of leather, opinions? Use this image as a reference. http://galactica.emedian.net/episode/1.06/imagepages/image2.html

I don't know, it looks like leather. I'll brainstorm on this. --Talos 14:21, 13 September 2005 (EDT)

The sleeves look like Vinyl. The vest looks like an unpolished leather. --Peter Farago 17:15, 12 September 2005 (EDT)

To me, the suit bit (sleeve, pegs, under-vest, etc.) looks like some kind of rubber material to me. I've thought this for a while now. I imagine that it's some kind of Space-Age Technology that is super-insulative and air-tight that would help in the case of cabin depressurization while in a Viper. This is, after all, the flight suit. I agree that the vest thingie looks leather. --Day 18:34, 12 September 2005 (EDT)

I agree with Day in that the flighsuit is probably a futuristic Space-Age material. I wonder what the actual costumes are made of (besides the vest, it is most likely unpolished leather). --Talos 14:21, 13 September 2005 (EDT)

If you are talking about the "Digital Urban Cammo" "BDU', which is actually known as a MARPAT...its not a collar variation, its the same collar. it can be worn like a madarin collar, or open like a standard butterfly collar. My Question about the BDU's is what is the designation for the Khaki/Tan variant of the BDU's seen in the MiniSeries and the 1st Season?-- Stratohead

There is no Urban MARPAT, only the Forrest and Desert versions since the Urban was never accepted. The BDUs they wear in Home look to be a commercial digital pattern based off the MARPAT like the ones you can get at UsCav. --Talos 13:04, 7 February 2006 (EST)

Yep. While MARPAT has become slang for digital camo, technically only the U.S. Marines can use MARPAT. The Army countered with the ACU, which lacks the color black. The wikipedia ACU article talks about the whole "Mandarin" up/down style (like Strato said). Does anybody have captures of the older (1st season) camo pattern that Strato is talking about? --Steelviper 13:31, 7 February 2006 (EST)

I wasn't refering to a Camo Pattern when I refrenced the Khaki/Tan...but a BDU uniform that is of the same construction as the Olive Drab ones...only Khaki/Tan.

This is seen in the background a few times in the Mini-Series (once on a Deck Hand working at a bench in the hanger deck) but can be seen most clearly in the Episode "Litmus" on Sgt. Hadrian ( http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Hadrian). Just curious if thats supposed to be a Marine BDU variant, or what it is. In the Miniseries the Marines wore OD plus an armband that simply stated "Security"...so I really don't know what the color difference is supposed to mean.( in my last post above I was refering to Digital Cammo as "MARPAT" in the same way we refer to Tissue Paper as "Kleenex" regardless of the brand...sorry if that was confusing)-- Stratohead

Um, as I have already said in the main article, "Marine NCO's (Non-Commissioned Officers) wear a khaki uniform"-->That's a Marine Non-Com uniform. Normal Marines don't wear it.--Ricimer 18:32, 7 February 2006 (EST)

It is just a khaki variant of the green service uniform that both the Non-coms and Officers wear. It may be missing the suede shoulders though, I need to go check out Litmus. Isn't it ironic that todays quote is from Litmus? --Talos 20:20, 7 February 2006 (EST)

Pictures

This article (as noted on the Standards and Conventions page) is gonna need a lot of pictures. Do you guys think that we should create a 3- or 4-equals heading for each kind of uniform to better align tha pictures with the accompanying text? This would also help in finding the specific type of uniform a reader is loking for if they were looking for that, rather than just looking for all/any uniform information. --Day 20:48, 12 September 2005 (EDT)

Viper Pilot's Wings

What is the insignia that Colonial Officers wear on their uniform on the left side of their chest. It's diamond shaped, and some have sort of wings on the top, and some on the bottom. I have wondered what each signifies, or whether they are Viper Pilot's Wings, which I thought Kara mentioned in "You Can Never Go Home"(not sure of the name) Rocky8311 21:12, October 17, 2005 (EDT)

Apollo takes his off and pins it on Hotdog in "You Can Go Home Again." Just from the dialogue in that scene, I'd say they Wings. --Talos 22:50, 17 October 2005 (EDT)

See, that's what I'd say too, but I think Gaeta and others have the same insignia...it doesn't seem to me that it should be so common.

Adama, Tigh, Fisk, and Cain have the "wings-on-top" insignia, possibly designating a command role. Gaeta's counterpart aboard Pegasus also wears the wings. Philwelch 23:23, 23 January 2006 (EST)

On the Wings issue, I would suggest that Lee's are Standard Viper Aiviator Wings(VAW? could we get away with that?), and William and Sauls Pilot wings are Senior Viper Aviator Wings(SVAW)--Jetstorm316 21 Febuary 2006.

I took some pretty pics for this: File:Senior wings.jpg --dancing_salad 19:01, 23 February 2006 (EST)

Jacket

I removed the line "Apollo's flight suit identifies that he is actually qualified to pilot both." A jacket, in military aviation, is a dossier that contains all the pilots qualifications, commendations, etc. Stinger was not referring to Apollo's flight suit but his record, which he would have recieved when Apollo was transferred under his command. --Talos 22:51, 22 January 2006 (EST)

Ahhh. Ha-ha! That makes much sense, then. I guess I can take off "scrutinize Lee's uniform for mention of a Raptor" of my list of things to do. Interesting. --Day 08:43, 23 January 2006 (EST)

Dress Uniform RDM

I know this has not been discussed much, but as far as I can see, Military Dress falls into these topics

A) Parade Dress - Normal Bridge uniform with a "leather like" sash with medals earned.

B) Bridge Officer - as above but without sash, with or without pilot wings, pending Viper Pilot Training.

C) Khaki - a universal standard, mainly adopted by colonial non-coms, a black armband if Military Police with MP shown.

D) Deck Crew - an orange jumpsuit with a black "hold-all" waist coat.

E) Desert Combats - whats the deal with this? any ideas? --Jetstorm316

Here is what I can add

A) These are known as Dress Greys and fullfill the same role as the Full Dress Blues in the USN.

B) These are Blue with a different cut than the Greys. Except for Hoshi, all "Junior Officers" (Major and Below) wear the Diamond with the downturned wings and Colonel and up wear the larger spread wings. These are like the USN Service Dress Blue in that they can be worn on watch and are still formal enough for some ceremonies (like in Pegasus).

C) Mainly seen on Marines and a few random bridge and hallway extras. The OD uniform seems to be the standard uniform for the fleet and is like the Working Khaki in the USN. These can be worn be officers and non-coms alike and seem to be the most formal uniform available for the non-coms. For the officers, it's like an undress uniform.

D) There are also yellow uniforms of this type. Jammer wears one.

E) When have we seen DCUs?, all there have been is Black BDUs and Urban MARPAT copies.

--Talos 14:50, 21 February 2006 (EST)

I'm inclined to be in Talos's camp, especially on item E. Why are you creating an issue out of a non-issue? Even mentioning it is pure speculation, fabrication, and over-think at this point. If TPTB depict a desert scene, and roll out a new uniform for it, then you've/we've got our topic to pursue and document. If they never do a desert scene, then that's their perrogative. Either way, any pursuit of this topic (item E) is a complete waste of time at this juncture.

We also have to keep in mind... this is a ship/fleet with limited resources, under durress, and a fractured sense of protocol and structure. Yes, they (the military) will try their utmost to keep to standards, but as even Admiral Adama concedes... he's not one for demanding protocol at all times. They (the crew) might have limited caches of uniforms, of pins, of medals, of patches, and are making do with what they have on hand (which isn't much, considering one ship (Galactica) was destined to be interred as a museum piece, and the other (Pegasus) was in the midst of a refit). Certain crewers (Hoshi, for example) might have different pins because they are from different previous postings, now pressed into service at that post because of need, and there's no point in such a petty detail of changing a pin. -- Hawke 15:11, 21 February 2006 (EST)

I forgot about Jammer, thanks for that input, Talos, well brought up. Would this mean he'd have a different role on the hanger deck (Orange = Maintenance, Yellow =?) from Cally. As for the desert Combat Dress(DCU), I may have got my wires crossed, but I can remember the security chief wearing a similar style in "Litmus". But you may very well be right on topic E). Hmm, food for thought, but interesting non the less..-- jetstorm316

Hadrian was wearing the khaki version of item C in both Act of Contrition and Litmus. --Talos 16:54, 21 February 2006 (EST)

Also, on the same subject as Hawke, didn't Roslin have Adama's Admiral insignia made by a jeweler? --Talos 17:11, 21 February 2006 (EST)

But on that note, did Admiral Adama give his son Lee his old Commander Pips?--jetstorm316

I like to imagine so, although it was probably for reasons of sentimental value instead of necessity--they had insignia for Fisk and Garner by some unknown means. Philwelch 03:16, 22 February 2006 (EST)

But why promote Lee? There are other Senior oficers that could do the job. Why the favoritism? Puzzling....... But I wouldn't give the job to Saul Tigh, otherwise we'd be renaming the pegasus the "JIM BEAM" (HA HA!)--jetstorm316

Please read Questions and Analysis on "The Captain's Hand" where this question was already asked, and possible answers given; my best-fit theory is that like on Star Trek and in the real US Navy, anyone who commands a ship is called "captain" even if they have a rank lower than "captain", right? Perhaps this is a continuation of this Navy terminology; Apollo is made "Commander" (their Captain equivalent) of Pegasus, therefore he is given the rank of "Commander"; why put him in charge at all? Well, Tigh never wanted his own command, and below that, there aren't many other high-ranking officers left.--The Merovingian 04:27, 22 February 2006 (EST)

True, but Kara Thrace is another possible "Candidate". A natural tactitian(like myself), and brilliant leader. A little rough around the edges, maybe more responsibility thrown upon her may mellow her.

A) Kara is not the best of commanders, B) They've only got so many officers, and they need a Galactica-CAG, C) Apollo outranks her. 2 months ago she was a Lieutenant. Apollo is at least 3rd or 4th ranking on Galactica.

What about "KAT"? as C.A.G?, It then frees up Kara to move up the command chain.

Question: Have the colonials setup a training camp to repalce losses?--jetstorm316

.....The episode "Act of Contrition", the episode "Scar"....Jetstorm316, I mean this out of genuine confusion: how much of the New Series of Battlstar Galactica have you seen so far?--The Merovingian 04:54, 22 February 2006 (EST)

But thats for PILOTS. What about officer training facilities, boot camps for marines, ect? Recruiting instead of enslaving is a must considering current fleet status. They did so in TOS, replacing officers is also crucial or the command structure will crumble from the ground up.

And to answer your above question: (ahem)ALL OF IT TO PRESENT DATE, ALL ON VCD, DOWNLOADED BY MYSELF, TO WATCH AT MY OWN LEASURE! I can't spend all day analising every episode, I have othe responsibilities to tend to, like a paying job.

I Can't wait until Saturday when I get the latest episode "Download", just to annoy my partner.--Jetstorm316

"Epiphanies", Asha Janik; using some civilians to do grunt work in understaffed areas like assembling the ammunition they got in boxes from Ragnar.--The Merovingian 06:52, 22 February 2006 (EST)

But have they recruited to re-enforce their dwindiling Military? Asha is still civilian aswell as Peter Liard, a civilian deck chief on Pegasus, even though he was pressganged. "Pegasus" can only do so much.--jetstorm316

I have to go check out my DVDs but it looked like Laird had CPO pins on his uniform. --Talos 07:13, 22 February 2006 (EST)

which were most probably given as a field promotion, due to his technical expertise in aeronautics--jetstorm316

What I figured happened was that Cain needed a deck chief so she assigned him to that job since he was an aeronautical engineer and gave him a rank commensurate with his position. As Cain would say, "I m a flag officer in detached service during a time of war. Regulations give me broad authority in these matters." --Talos 11:29, 22 February 2006 (EST)

Possible, due to the fact she lost 700 men, maybe her original deck chief was one of those casualties, hence Liards field promotion.--jetstorm316

Exactly my point. --Talos 13:41, 22 February 2006 (EST)

Back to the original discussion, Point C), if you look at Talos's images Khaki OD dress, this is taken form the pilot episode as Tigh walks away from the CIC. To help everyone out a little, this is time index 8 mins 2 seconds. If you look at the right arm of the non-com, you will see a black armband, with 2 letters in yellow. If I can get a better/clearer shot of this, I would wager the armband reads "MP". Now tell me I don't know my millitary structures! Could anyone please help varify this (Pictorial)fact? --jetstorm316

The only problem is that's not khaki, thats OD. Khaki (color) is what Hadrian wears. --Talos 16:19, 22 February 2006 (EST)

It looks like any confusion is caused by me comparing the OD uniform to the Navy Service Khakis, an undress, working suitable uniform. --Talos 16:22, 22 February 2006 (EST)

Talos, do you concure that the OD dress with armbard, has lettering?.--jetstorm316

It looks like the lettering on the OD armband says "SECURITY" or "SEC". It's clearer in the DVD and I'll see if I can get a clearer pic. That was just a picture of oppourtunity while I was looking for Blue duty pictures. There aren't that many of the OD with armband walking around, compared to ODs without like Dualla. --Talos 19:08, 22 February 2006 (EST)

Counterpoints

Okay....I do not want this to get "ugly", however there are a *LOT* of problems with Jetstorm316's recent posting here in Talk; For starters, at first glance it doesn't look like he even bothered to read the write up already in the article, but instead posted up his own observations. I'm not trying to insult, cast blame, whatever. I wash my hands of this. But I need to make the following counterpoints:

"A) Parade Dress - Normal Bridge uniform with a "leather like" sash with medals earned. "

No. As you can see in the write up I did weeks ago for "Uniform" on the front page, a dress uniform is not "a bridge uniform" with some alterations: It is gray, lacks a pocket or shoulder patches, as well as the sash. Senior officers' uniforms also feature a dark gray bar around the neck, and epaulettes. No, it is not called "Parade Dress" (well, with capitals like an official name like that), they call them "Dress Grays", i.e. dress uniform. A point I forgot to make was that the Dress Uniform is actuall an overcoat of sorts; the Duty Uniform (below) just tucks into the belt.

"B) Bridge Officer - as above but without sash, with or without pilot wings, pending Viper Pilot Training. "

A key point you didn't notice is that this is not a "Bridge Officer" uniform; it is a uniform for all Colonial Fleet officers: Apollo, Starbuck, and Boomer have been seen wearing them, as noted in that list there which denotes the differences in this uniform for different ranks. LSO Kelly also wears one. And as said above, it's really not like the dress uniform. As for the differences in those little Wing badges they have, I would greatly appreciate if someone could find the little differences between them; however it is definately not "pending Viper Pilot Training", as I do believe that even Raptor pilots or Gaeta have them.

"C) Khaki - a universal standard, mainly adopted by colonial non-coms, a black armband if Military Police with MP shown. "

No, this is also blatantly wrong. This is not a uniform for "Colonial Non-Coms". Chief Tyrol is the highest-ranking Colonial Fleet Non-Com on the ship, yet as you can see clearly in this Galacticastation pic: http://www.galacticastation.com/Galactica%20Station/Screencaps/s1/103/bscap028.htm he does not wear a khaki uniform. He wears the green duty uniform, which other Colonial Fleet personel, such as Cally: http://www.galacticastation.com/Galactica%20Station/Screencaps/s1/103/bscap014.htm who is an enlisted crewman, also wears. So you see, this is not a "universal standard, mainly non-com uniform". No, a black armband is not worn by just "the military police"; all people wearing this that we have seen had the black armband. Either way, we've pretty much confirmed that it is the Colonial Marine Corps Non-Com uniform, but is not used by the Colonial Fleet. (Still, we have not seen it featured much, and the black armband stuff needs more research/attention in future episodes.

"D) Deck Crew - an orange jumpsuit with a black "hold-all" waist coat. "

Correct; this is in the article, yeah no problem there; there are actually orange and yellow ones (notably Jammer), as has been stated above; on real world ships, color denotes task, but as I stated in the article, "orange" isn't a color used by the US Navy's color-coding system.

"E) Desert Combats - whats the deal with this? any ideas? "

....did you just count the Khaki uniform twice in your list? No, we have never seen a "desert combat" uniform in any episode.

I am sorry, and I have tried to keep this as close to the facts as possible, however this really needed correction. --The Merovingian 04:51, 22 February 2006 (EST)

Well, we do agree on something after all, Point D).

As I have stated on Point E), I conceeded it wasn't "Desert" combats, but "Urban" style. Talos quite rightly pointed that mistake out, and I have made sufficiant note of this fact, to correct at a later date in my own files. Once again, point conceeded, no problems here.

Point C) is a tricky one, but I have not seen an episode other than "Litmus"where it was used. Yes, I AGREE more research is needed on this point, maybe pool resourses to define is proper use (I'm offering an "Olive Branch" here, not many get handed out from me), but once again, no problems.

A and B are too close together to seperate, but both uniforms do have similarities with each other.

I must admit, you do have some good points, but some do need redefining.--Jetstorm316

I uploaded some pics as examples.

A)

B and D)

C) There are some people wearing the khaki without the armband and I'll get a better pic of both the OD and khaki when I get home from classes in about 4 hours. Here's a bad pic of the OD one with a security armband.

E)

--Talos 07:01, 22 February 2006 (EST)

Good examples, Talos. Well deserving of recognition. Why Don't you add them into the document as additional supplement.--jetstorm316

I was planning too. I just wanted to show them here first. --Talos 12:54, 22 February 2006 (EST)

New Uniform Pics

Sweet. Thanks, Talos! --Steelviper 12:43, 22 February 2006 (EST)

My pleasure. --Talos 12:55, 22 February 2006 (EST)

i've been cutting off the concrete suits. maybe they can be introduced to the article that way:

Commander - red line on outer edge, gold line on inner edge - Example

here are the pics:

well, i think nobody cares. If someone does, just recover. --dancing_salad 18:54, 23 February 2006 (EST)

Thanks for adding the pics to the uniform page. Good job on linking through text and not thumbnails, I keeps the page cleaner and less cluttered. Keep up the good work! --Talos 21:59, 23 February 2006 (EST)