Talk:Precipice/Archive 1

For earlier discussions in this talk page prior to October 3, 2006, click here.

Production Number

What's up with "Episode 1.5"? Shouldn't this count as episode 2 of the season, even if it's being aired as a 2-hour premiere? --April Arcus 03:53, 3 October 2006 (CDT)

Thats what ive always said, but for some reason all the episode numbering is messed up. --Mercifull ^{(Talk/Contribs)} 04:35, 3 October 2006 (CDT)

The writers officially count "Occupation / Precipice" as one episode. Bradley Thompson said that there will probably be only one intro. So "Precipice" still belongs to episode 1 (hence 1.5) and Season 3 only has 19 episodes on paper --Serenity 05:21, 3 October 2006 (CDT)

However, in terms of budgeting and production, "Occupation/Precipice" was 3.01 and 3.02, while "Exodus, Part I" and "Exodus, Part II" were both 3.03. Clearly our numbering system shouldn't reflect the vagaries of production, or else both parts of "Resurrection Ship" would be episodes 2.11 and Season 2 would only have 19 episodes.

At the same time, we should ask - were "Occupation" and "Precipice" truly edited into a single episode, or is SciFi simply airing two episodes back to back on premiere night? In the event of the former, there should be a single entry for both "Occupation" and "Precipice". In the latter, they should retain separate entries, and each should have their own episode number (and none of this "1.5" business). --April Arcus 05:34, 3 October 2006 (CDT)

FWIW, SciFi's schedule has the premiere listed as a single two-hour block under the title "The Occupation/Precipice". I'd lay good money on them splitting it into two episodes for syndication, though. --April Arcus 05:37, 3 October 2006 (CDT)

Well, you could wait until the episodes have aired and edit it then. But I asked Mr. Thompson about just this, and he said "I have not seen the transition yet, but I believe it will be one episode. Which is why Episode 19 is the season 3 finale" in BW:OC. Good point about syndication though. Maybe the place where the break would be is cleary visible. --Serenity 05:43, 3 October 2006 (CDT)

Having given it considerable thoght, I think the best reason not to merge them into a single article is that I don't want to be citing (The Occupation/Precipice) as a single unit for the rest of time. --April Arcus 06:15, 3 October 2006 (CDT)

One thing I think people aren't getting that that there ARE 20 episodes. "Occuprice" is episode 1, Exodus part 1 is episode 2, so on, totaling up to twenty. (I think) --BklynBruzer 13:13, 4 October 2006 (CDT)

Whoops, scratch my previous comment that was here, I was wrong. For what it's worth, my DirecTV guide has it as a single two hour airing. With a repeat right after. Methinks that'll be good if there's a podcast for em.--BklynBruzer 13:13, 4 October 2006 (CDT)

There are twenty hours, and (if Occupation/Precipice is counted as one episode) nineteen episodes. --April Arcus 17:34, 4 October 2006 (CDT)

Why not refer to Occupation/Precipice as "Episode 1," the following episode as "Episode 3," place a link to "Episode 1" on the Precipice page, and whenever Precipice is referred to as a separate episode, call it "Episode 2." Put a brief summary of Precipice in the Episode 2 article, put anything specific to Episode 2 in that article (if, say, there is a single Episode 2 podcast), and refer to the combined page for everything else. Joe n bloe 12:59, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

Suggestion

Here's a thought: Let's follow SciFi's lead with the podcasts. If they put up podcasts for two four-act shows, we'll keep it as two episodes; if they put up a single podcast for an eight-act show, we'll merge them into a single Occupation/Precipice article. --April Arcus 17:38, 4 October 2006 (CDT)

Ya know, so far this is the best suggestion in this whole conversation because I somehow get the feeling that they at scifi are themselves not yet certain about what to call these 2 opening 5 act pieces,but by the time the show starts on Friday, I'm sure they will have it figured out so let's not do their job for them and try to guess what they will do. --Straycat0 16:08, 4 October 2006 (AST)

I suggest we wait till they air, and see if there's an end between the two. For what it's worth, my DirecTV onscreen guide is showing one two hour block with a repeat right after it. That'll be nice for the podcasts, watch the episode, then right after watch it with commentary. --BklynBruzer 20:21, 4 October 2006 (CDT)

Moore refers to the show as "Occupation/Precipice" in his latest blog entry. --April Arcus 01:04, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

RDM often will lead off each podcast with (outside the I'm RDM, etc.) "and this is episode X of season Y, 'Z'". That may provide some insight as well if he continues that practice. --Steelviper 06:53, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

SciFi.com gives the two-hour premiere production numbers 301 and 302. --April Arcus 01:36, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

Using the second content warning after the bombing as the start of Precipice. --FrankieG 06:43, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

RDM states this on the podcast too. Baltar/Roslin cell scene is the first of Precipice. --FrankieG 09:07, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

Exactly what I was going to say but noticed my comment didnt post (edit conflict) hehe --Mercifull ^{(Talk/Contribs)} 13:04, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

Agree. Two different episodes. --Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 13:06, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

Pic

What's that gold thing on Helo's lapel/uniform? --BklynBruzer 12:52, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

Here is a better pic Image:Greys_Mini.JPG. I believe that it is a symbol for the twelve colonies. But Kat doesn't have it?? --FrankieG 13:11, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

It's a version of the Colonial seal with a smaller Phoenix in the center: http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=26&pos=81 --Serenity 13:17, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

If we don't have a pic here, we need it. :) --FrankieG 13:18, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

The best option is probably to make a high resolution screencap from DVD (if a suitable closeup is available). Episodes with dress grays: Miniseries, Act of Contrition, Home II --Serenity 13:25, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

In the episode itself, Kat's Grays does have the lapel pin. I was specifically looking for it in the scene, it must be a mistake in this picture. --Talos 10:12, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

Yeah, made sure I checked that too. --FrankieG 10:14, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

Kacey

I'd like to start a page for Kara's daughter, but I'm not really sure how to spell her name. Casey? Kasey? If it is Casey, we'll need to disambiguate, as there's already a pilot named that. Alpha5099 13:47, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

I don't suppose anybody was watching with captions on? --April Arcus 14:22, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

The credits have it has "Kacey" in the credits. Also, spelled that way the RDM Chicago Tribune article. --FrankieG 14:51, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

I had the captions on, and it was "Kacey". --ThesposAZ 02:37, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

I am a captions type of guy also. :) --Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 02:39, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

Hey on the Answers thing for Kara's Duaghter says 16 months. That can't be right because it had to come to termm which would take nine months so two months after Baltar becomes the presisdent and the episode is 16 months subtract 2 months and she would be 14 months old and not 16 months old.- Best Snorkel378

Incorrect. Baltar was elected c. Day 280. The one-year jump brought us to c. Day 660 by the end of LDYB2. Occupation began on the 134th day of the Cylon occupation, bringing us to c. Day 794 - roughly 27 months after the holocaust. Kara's ovary was removed during The Farm, which took place roughly 2 months after the holocaust. Add nine months for gestation and we get 27-(2+9) = 16. --April Arcus 14:36, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

To clarify - your problem is that you're rounding dates down and the error is accumulating. The jump forward in LDYB2 was 380 days, which is about 12 and 2/3 months. Then the jump between LDYB2 and Occupation is 134 days, which is 4 and 1/2 months. On top of it, the election in LDYB2 didn't take place exactly 270 days after the holocaust - the debates lasted about ten days, which is another 1/3 month, and the events of "Downloaded" were also said to be about 9 months post-holocaust, which pushes LDYB2 a few days forward to make everything fit. --April Arcus 14:48, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

Does anyone think that Kacey might have been deliberately injured while Kara was out of the room, to force her sentiments? The Cylons have been shown to inflict wounds on one another for the purpose of emotional manipulation before, to encourage feelings of love between humans and Cylons (the Litmus episode). Since Kara's imprisonment seems to be one big mind game, I can't shake this feeling. --tt25 15:57, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

I believe this to be likely. However, this is assuming that Kasey is Kara's biological child -- or even a hybrid at all. Kasey could just as easily be a child they picked up off the streets of New Caprica to mind-frak Kara. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 15:51, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

I think, the actress does not fit to Kasey's age of 16 month. Children do their first steps, when they are about one year old. Kasey trampolines on the sofa and runs around. Her behaviour is too safe. -- Tirkon 11:53, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

She is however a human/cylon hybrid and might not necesserily match human development. --Mercifull ^{(Talk/Contribs)} 12:06, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

The producers have been clear that Hera, another human/Cylon hybrid, will not have unusually fast growth. Noneofyourbusiness 12:44, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

If anything, Hera has unusually SLOW growth. The scene where her adopted mother goes to be with her at the end of season 2 shows a baby, yet this was clearly 12+ months after she was born. She should have been larger and such. Bstone 03:11, 10 October 2006 (CDT)

She was born prematurely. Noneofyourbusiness 19:48, 12 October 2006 (CDT)

Was that even Hera then though, or was it just a random other baby being looked after in the school/creché? --Mercifull ^{(Talk/Contribs)} 04:24, 10 October 2006 (CDT)

It was named as "Isis", but the child's asian features, the fact that the mother was Maya (Hera's adopted mother in "Downloaded"), and (most tellingly) the white crib from Baltar's vision in "Kobol's Last Gleaming" imply that the child is Hera beyond all reasonable doubt. Also, recall that Roslin had intended to keep a close eye on the child, and note RDM's comments regarding an abandoned plotline featuring Hera/Isis in the Occuprice podcast. --April Arcus 04:28, 10 October 2006 (CDT)

I just want to bring up the fudge factor when determining kasey's age in that she could have been a premee just like Hera. You could add as much as 3 months to her development. So what was the guess, 16 months? Add 3 months to that as a fudge factor and you get 19 months, that's close to 2 years. And since Cylon related births have a history of difficulty (No Cylon/Cylon children, all known forced Cylon/Human pregnancy have fail -- The Farm, first known surviving Cylon/Human baby <Hera> was a premee), it's reasonable to figure in a fudge factor. --Straycat0 14:32, 12 October 2006 (CDT)

Here is a thought. The cylon bodies that are waiting to be downloaded into have to be grown, right? Maybe they stopped the growth process of a Six, and that is where Kacey came from? Just another "could be." in the BSG world.--CylonGod 00:17, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

Nice thought, but what indicator is there that the bodies of Cylon agents have to be grown? IIRC, Starbuck's flyby of the Resurrection Ship only showed adult Sixes in their vats. It could be that they're constructed as adults from the get-go and not aged from a fetal core.--み使い Mitsukai 13:49, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

In Rapture (Season 3, Episode 12), Sharon Agathon tells us that Cylons have medical experience only with the adult humanoids of their kind. This suggests that they do not grow, but are constructed as adults. Dogger55 06:51, 9 July 2011 (EDT)

Citations

I added citations but it somehow made the spoiler text unreadable. Noneofyourbusiness 11:56, 12 October 2006 (CDT)

I noted this and was unsuccessful in adding them back myself as I was massively concising the article while you made the attempt. I am adding the links here (WARNING: These links go to interviews that contain spoilers and, as with the technical issues, can't be hidden.)

• comments from Grace Park, Dean Stockwell, and Tricia Helfer

--Spencerian 18:05, 12 October 2006 (CDT)

Does anyone have the copies of Battlestar Galactica Magazine so we can create official cites? I know these articles exist. but we really need the official "cite". --FrankieG 19:00, 12 October 2006 (CDT)

Agree. Linking to a members-only message board is hardly satisfactory. --April Arcus 03:54, 13 October 2006 (CDT)

Concur. I have the July issue and will look for the comments. I may have the Grace Park issue as well to confirm. --Spencerian 08:37, 13 October 2006 (CDT)

Fairly sure that the Dean Stockwell comments are in the last issue, 7. --FrankieG 09:26, 13 October 2006 (CDT)

The citations linked above have all been deleted, and were never accessible to non-members in the first place. If the comments referring to these articles are to continue in the main namespace, then citations from the BSG magazine (or another appropriate source) must be supplied promptly. --April Arcus 18:53, 28 October 2006 (CDT)

Here's an example that still works: http://galactica-station.blogspot.com/2006/09/six-shooter_115935580941130304.html I wish I could give a citation from the magazine, but I don't have any issues of it. Could someone please do that? -- Noneofyourbusiness 14:44, 29 October 2006 (CST)

Ahem, has no one noticed the above? -- Noneofyourbusiness 09:22, 8 November 2006 (CST)

Cylon on Cylon action

Boomer's destruction of the basestar is a bad example, as being a sleeper agent she didn't have the cultural taboo active, and her success appears to have been instrumental in getting her in position to accomplish her mission. I'd use an example of known Cylon on known Cylon on that bullet (which I don't have off the top of my head). --Steelviper 17:50, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. That doesn't really make any sense. There might be Caprica-Sharon shooting a Six in "33", but one could argue that that doesn't count, because it was necessary. However, she does shoot another Sharon in "Colonial Day". -- Serenity 17:58, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

How about Caprica-Sharon using a Heavy Raider to shoot the crap out of some Centurions in The Farm? --Catrope^{(Talk to me or e-mail me)} 18:03, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

We're talking humanoid Cylons here. -- Serenity 18:04, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Not according to the quote, which says "Cylon-on-Cylon violence". But even then, Caprica-Sharon shot a fellow Sharon in Colonial Day. D'Anna's statement may not be true, but she has no way of knowing that. The nuke in the basestar was done by a sleeper agent and had been ordered by a human, the Sharon in Colonial Day never saw her attacker, the Centurions who were shot to pieces in The Farm didn't resurrect (since they have no biological components, I think it's reasonable to assume Centurions have no conciousness and therefore don't download) and the Heavy Raider involved in that incident was taken to Galactica and never got a chance to communicate with the Cylons. --Catrope^{(Talk to me or e-mail me)} 19:53, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

She is referring to the attack on her in "Downloaded" and from their point of view, the humanoids are the Cylon. So by context, she's just talking about the humanoid models. You're right about the limited knowledge though. -- Serenity 19:56, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Even though the others did not witness Caprica-Sharon shooting a fellow Sharon, the dead Sharon would have resurrected. Given that the Cylons were engaged in an extensive manhunt for Helo and Caprica-Sharon, it stretches credibility to suggest that she would not have reported the shooting when she returned. D'Anna immediately recognizes Caprica-Sharon when she catches her taking the launch keys, so it does seem odd that D'Anna would not know that significant detail of Caprica-Sharon's history. Dogger55 12:43, 6 July 2011 (EDT), Revised 03:56, 7 July 2011 (EDT)

This guide...

Is just plain bad. We need to expand, cleanup, and fix up! All people who have the Season 3 disc set, load this disc up and fix! Make it Act 1, etc. etc. Shane (talk) 22:59, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed that too. We didn't really do such extremely detailed summaries back then, but even for that time it seems lacking. The Analysis section could also be improved. -- Serenity 23:05, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

trucks

Where did the trucks come from? What ship in the colonial or cylon fleet would have trucks aboard and for what purpose? Could they have been designed and built within the 15 months on the planet? They also look remarkably "Earth" like, perhaps more than any other design in the series. Therefore it would be appropriate and interesting to give these a mention. Xlynx 14:52, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

• Well, we've seen trucks in the series before on Caprica, so it's not a new development. There presence on New Caprica could be explained one of two ways:

1. They were aboard a Colonial freighter that joined the Fleet—and if you really want to be a nerd about it, you could say that they were on the Colonial Movers ship. ;-)
2. The Cylons built them. They had the resources to build the detention center and all that, and as such they would need equipment to do that (cranes, trucks, etc).

-- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus} 15:05, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

• Settlers had trucks before the Cylons arrived. Near the beginning of Scar, trucks are moving on the asteroid surface beneath the ore mining ship Majahual. You first see a truck on New Caprica near the end of Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II, as the camera first pans out of the window of Colonial One, and other trucks are seen as the camera moves overhead to show the entire settlement. Galactica or Pegasus may have had trucks for invasion purposes, but we didn't see them because they weren't needed before they settled on New Caprica. American naval forces in WW2, for example, carried land vehicles to various island landings in the Pacific and to the D-Day landing in Normandy. Also, many domestic manufacturers were converted to military production during WW2, so perhaps Adama did the reverse and used Viper manufacturing facilities to make trucks for the settlers. Dogger55 10:52, 6 July 2011 (EDT)

Those were landrams, and they were featured in "Razor" in one of Pegasus' landing bays as well, but you make a very good point. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 13:00, 6 July 2011 (EDT)

Near the end of Unfinished Business (Extended), a truck goes by in the background after Adama tells Lee that Kara just got married. In the DVD/Blu-Ray Commentary, Ron Moore and editor Michael O'Halloran say that the settlers had trucks and the one in that scene justified the use of trucks in "Precipice". Dogger55 15:36, 8 July 2011 (EDT)

Cylon numbers revealed?

I just noticed that when the cylons vote aboard Colonial One, they do so in numerical order. Coincidence, or first hint? Is it worth mentioning? Caldumidoan 09:21, 11 February 2009 (UTC)