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| :''For discussions prior to October 13, 2006, [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Cylon_agent_speculation&oldid=83992 see this revision.] | | {{Template:Archive-bot |
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| :''For discussions prior to March 13, 2007, [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Humanoid_Cylon_speculation&oldid=113030 see this revision.]
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| ==Archived Page== | | == You Will Know the Truth == |
| I had to archive this page as it was three times larger than some browsers could read. I know that this is a very popular page, but please limit the discussion to the criteria and reasoning behind a character's suspicion. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:04, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
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| == Romo Lampkin's entry ==
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| I truncated Lampkin's entry to its basic points and moved him to "low' probability. By the nature of the show, almost ''everyone'' is a suspect. Lampkin's demeanor is suspicious, but so is/was [[Tom Zarek]], [[Phelan]], [[Valance]], and many, many other antagonists in the show. "Creepy" is not a qualifier, per se. The point of association with Joseph Adama is of particular note for possibie disqualification if we can verify his time of death. Based on conversations with the surviving Adamas, it appears that the senior Adama died some time (>2 years) before the Cylon genocide, but we can't verify a time. If anything, for someone who actually ''knew'' Joseph Adama to be a survivor of the Fleet, like [[Ellen Tigh]]'s mysterious rescue, is a matter of question. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:54, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
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| == Statement on Death ==
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| I have changed the following line:
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| <blockquote>''As only a humanoid Cylon can "return" from the dead, any human character that dies is instantly disqualified from suspicion. If the character returns in a manner other than being seen in a "flashback" scene or episode, then it is <strike>probable</strike> <u>possible</u> that the character is a Cylon.''</blockquote>
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| The reason for this is due to the return of Starbuck, who due to her arrival and Apollo's reaction, we are not sure if she is human, Cylon, or even a delusion in his mind at this time.--<font color="#4b0082">[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]</font> <font color="#2f4f4f">''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''</font> 21:13, 27 March 2007 (CDT)
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| ==All Males Should Be In Low Probability==
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| I think we should consider all male suspects to be in the lowest possible suspicion level since the number of males is already greater than that of females, and I doubt they would go as far as unbalancing it even more. Doesn't mean they can't be, but it does mean it's a lot less probable that they are Cylons. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22:39, 27 March 2007 (CDT)
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| :Three's drawings were of three males and two females, yes? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:36, 27 March 2007 (CDT)
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| ::I can't really tell, but I'm mainly basing my comment on the fact that it would be extremely disproportionate to have 8 Males and 4 females....--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 23:41, 27 March 2007 (CDT)
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| :::Maybe it's meant to be the reverse of the human female to male ratio, where it's (as the Beach Boys have said) "two girls for every boy....". Seriously, there may be a reason why such a disparity exists, and in any case, I'm not sure that gender plays a factor in how things will transpire, as it hasn't played a factor in how things have happened thus far.--<font color="#4b0082">[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]</font> <font color="#2f4f4f">''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''</font> 00:13, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
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| ==Kara Thrace==
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| According to Katee Sackhoff she was one of the few actors told she wasn't a Cylon.([http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/8547/redeye3copyci7.jpg Source]) I think this statement is enough to remove her from the list because Ronald D. Moore has already made up his mind as to who the fifth Cylon is (see note at the article about the [[Final five]]). --[[User:Gen00b|Gen00b]] 09:32, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
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| ==Major Revision Needed==
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| I think this page should be replaced with an article concerning the remaining twelfth Cylon specifically. No character should be admitted to speculation without some sort of affirmative cause for suspicion - straight off the top of my head, that would include just Starbuck and Roslin. We should also re-evaluate our elimination criteria:
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| *Obviously biological offspring can no longer eliminate a character from suspicion, unless their partner is known to be a Cylon.
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| *Humanoid Cylons existed at least as early as 30 years prior to the third season, since that's how long Adama has known Tigh.
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| --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:14, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
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| == Suggested name for the last Cylon "#1" ==
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| OK, we don't actually know the numbers of any of the new 4 Cylons or even for Simon and Cavil, and RDM has said they were essentially assigned at random.
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| But I'm proposing a fun name, in homage to the Prisoner, for the last Cylon on the wiki should be #1. Since I would be really, really surprised if that is not indeed the number and role of this last Cylon anyway. Better than "12th Cylon" though I guess "Final Cylon" is OK. Strictly speaking, RDM could create more than 12 but for now that's how many he's said are there. Of course, there is another possible special Cylon out there, namely a humanoid incarnation of the Cylon God, a Cylon Jesus if you will. (I would pick Baltar as this -- not a Cylon, but much more.)
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| Or are people against #1 as a designation on the off chance that might not turn out to be its number?--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 01:03, 29 March 2007 (CDT)
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| :While the ''Prisoner'' reference is valid, I think it'd probably be jumping the gun to assign a number. "Final Cylon" is OK for now, I guess. Especially as it relates to "Final Five". --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:37, 29 March 2007 (CDT)
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| == The Eight Cylons in the fleet == | |
| While recogizing this isn't a chat forum, I think the following is reasonable fodder for speculation. You'll remember in ''[[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]'' that [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] said there were eight Cylons in the fleet. Assuming that she somehow had access to this information despite not being able to identify any of the Final Five or even all of the original seven, let's try to reconcile this with present knowledge.
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| Cylons who are ''not'' in the fleet at the time include [[Sharon Agathon|Athena]], [[Samuel Anders|Anders]], and [[Gina]], as they arrived later. Those now known to Cylons who were in the fleet at the time are:
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| *Boomer herself
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| *[[D'Anna Biers]]
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| *The [[Cavil]] copy who later counselled Tyrol
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| *[[Saul Tigh]]
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| *[[Tory Foster]]
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| *[[Galen Tyrol]]
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| You'll notice this totals to six. Of the remaining two, one is probably the final unrevealed Final Fiver. Note this suggests that this Cylon is not [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]], since she was on Caprica at the time.
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| As for the other, my best guess is [[Shelly Godfrey]], though if so she'd been hiding superbly well. I suppose there could also have been a [[Simon]] lurking about somewhere, though if so we ought to have been told after his cover was blown when Starbuck returned. --[[User:Saforrest|Saforrest]] 09:56, 29 March 2007 (CDT)
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| :There may still have been a Simon hanging around somewhere, Starbuck didn't exactly take a picture of him. In a 45k-population, avoiding one person is not that hard to do. Also keep in mind that D'Anna wasn't unmasked upon Anders' return for the same reason. Both could've easily avoided Anders' resistance group during the year on New Caprica, after which they'd blend in with the other Cylons during the occupation. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 10:40, 29 March 2007 (CDT)
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| ::Since the 7 know nothing of the identities or activites of the five, she _should_ have just been guessing. Sharon would know the total count of 12, but should have had no reason to know Anders was on Caprica and four others were on board, unless we have been incorrectly informed about their non-knowledge of the F5. #3 and #6 certainly know nothing of them besides their count.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 13:55, 29 March 2007 (CDT)
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| :::She might've known how many of the Five there were, after all the reason why the Seven don't know their faces is because of their programming. Baltar was seriously messing with Boomer's programming, and I wouldn't be surprised if he managed to access the deepest places. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 17:51, 29 March 2007 (CDT)
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| ::Well, we don't know when Biers was caught out because it happened off-camera: it could have been anytime in the year interlude during [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]] between Anders' arrival till the Cylon conquest. I would assume that, for both Ander and Starbuck, the Colonials would be smart enough to sit people down after they return and at least get police composites drawn. --[[User:Saforrest|Saforrest]] 19:05, 30 March 2007 (CDT)
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| == article reboot == | | I found a [http://jamesjacob77.blogspot.com/2008/11/who-is-final-cylon_29.html blog post] that links to [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/youwillknowthetruth/ this page on scifi.com]. They've also got a [http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2319583&st=0 forum thread] on it. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 00:09, 30 November 2008 (UTC) |
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| Due to the fact that everything we known about the Humanoid Cylons has been thrown into the loop, I've started work on a "rebooted" version of the article, which can be [[Humanoid Cylon speculation/Reboot|found here]]. Please discuss and modify this version as needed. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 15:21, 8 April 2007 (CDT)
| | == [[Zak Adama]]? == |
| :Agreed. And when we finish the reboot we delete this version. 12:08, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
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| ::Honestly we may as well delete this article. The fact that one of the Cylons ''fought in the first war on the human side'' really makes all of our points moot. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 13:02, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
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| :::I keep needing to point this out - Tigh's history cannot be verified prior to his meeting with Adama. The Cylons were able to place Boomer in the Fleet with a convincing backstory; they could have done so with Tigh just as easily. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:46, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
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| :I was never a fan of this article in the first place, but as said "Crossroads" really makes this pointless until we get some more information in Season 4 --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:05, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
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| :::Agreed! Let us wash this away and start anew! [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 13:31, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
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| ::::[[w:Daleks|EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!]] (Dang it if I didn't start it all many moons ago with this [[Baltar as Cylon speculation|Baltar thing]]. Alrighty, then: [[w:Total Party Kill|rocks fall, everybody dies!]] --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:08, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
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| :I'll give this until the 15th to see whether or not anyone objects. Not that I see much in the way of that happening, myself. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 14:28, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
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| Let me start the counter argument (against total deletion but for reboot.) I feel that BSG is both a mystery and an SF show, and an important function for a Wiki like this is to document facts from Canon, official sources and reality to help viewers appreciate and understand the show. That includes both the SF and mundane aspects, but also its mysteries. Many people fear that speculating regarding the mysteries will lead to too much fanwanking, and that's a legitimate fear, but it's a mistake to go too far out of fear and conclude documenting the mysteries and clues should not be done.
| | It's possible that Zak Adama is the final Cylon. The main reason I say this is because of [[Leoben Conoy|Leoben]]'s line in [[Flesh and Bone]]: "Adama is a Cylon." I don't think that it's William Adama, Apollo, or by extension Dualla. Is this viable enough for inclusion in the article? --[[User:JemHadar359|JemHadar359]] 05:25, 23 December 2008 (UTC) |
| | :In this article on SyFy Portal[http://www.syfyportal.com/news425609.html], Michael Hinman claims that they have received confirmation of the identity of the final Cylon from multiple sources, and claims that the final Cylon is one of five characters listed in the article. Zak Adama is not on the list. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 07:43, 23 December 2008 (UTC) |
| | : As I said before—and forgive me for soundin' like a broken record—but this article will be dead in its present (and the ColdBoot form) before the season ends anyway. ;-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 20:24, 23 December 2008 (UTC) |
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| This page was a failure before, but from a sort of "reverse fanwanking." Many folks ignored strong clues that the rules for the final five were very different from the significant seven. They assumed that the Final Five followed the same rules as the existing 7, which turned out to be the ungrounded speculation. My own correct assertions that this was the case were removed, but I'm not simply trying to say "told you so" here. I'm trying to point out if correct (and it turns out highly critical) information is removed, the process that led to that should be examined. I'm trying to say that appreciating a show of this sort requires giving in a bit to imagination. One must find the right balance to moderate, rather than stamp out, speculation on the mysteries.
| | == Just a feeling. . . == |
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| I would actually recommend a series of pages about the major mysteries of the show and encourage the collection of not speculation of the mysteries, but the documented "facts" that will allow viewers to come to their own speculations and conclusions. The wiki should provide the foundation for one's own personal speculation. Yes, some people will overdo it, and start putting in invented theories, but I think they can be handled -- especially if there is a policy page that explains that the way you express a theory is to summarize the canonical clues, but not the conclusions (except in a broad sense, such as you're in a section entitled "Cylon speculation for Character X")
| | that the final cylon will be someone that there's been no speculation about. Someone right out of left field. Personally, I'd like to think it's. . . Romo Lampkin. [[User:Centurion 51773|Centurion 51773]] 16:29, 14 January 2009 (UTC) |
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| (There are other approaches too. For example, heroeswiki does a remarkably good job by simply having associated 'fan theory' pages where people can go fairly wild, and they hardly get any of it in the main pages.)--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 17:48, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
| | == What about Number Seven? == |
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| : I suppose we could attempt this approach, but we need to run it through the [[BW:TANK|Think Tank]] to gain a larger consensus. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 18:53, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
| | Do we have any information about the existence or nonexistence of Number Seven? In many interviews and articles, it has been stated that the Final Five don't have model numbers, so it couldn't be any of them. Has the issue of Number Seven been addressed in any interviews? -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 03:06, 15 January 2009 (UTC) |
| | : Not yet you don't. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 19:32, 15 January 2009 (UTC) |
| | :: Since the Final Five are actually older, Seven must have been a failed model. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 15:08, 20 January 2009 (UTC) |
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| == Isn't "Reboot" or "Deletion" Jumping the Gun? == | | == Archiving rather than deleting == |
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| Sorry all, this is my first participation in the discussion here, but I felt it kinda necessary. We still don't know the Final Five or whether this "activation" really happened. The music never was playing when Boomer was activated, for example. We don't even know whether Kara died or what was in the cockpit. All of this is only assumption based on what we've been shown so far. I, personally, do not think that any of the main characters shown were the Final Five -- all the five were on New Caprica and we have yet to really know everything that happened down there. I'd leave this up until the facts have been corroborated that they are Cylons. Just my two bits, I'll quiet down now.--[[User:Tstevens20|Tstevens20]] 15:36, 14 April 2007 (CDT)
| | I can't say I'll miss all the fanwanking we did on this page and its sisters, but I think it'll be a hoot to leave these pages as of Ellen Tigh's reveal, locked with a note about the relative history of how contributors jerked themselves around trying to formulate a logic for the last Cylons. The main articles would be protected as well as the talk pages for people to smile and laugh at (especially the producers and writers who probably made ''sure'' we were wrong! ;) Thoughts? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 03:26, 20 January 2009 (UTC) |
| :The producers have confirmed that they are Cylons in interviews. And the music didn't necessarily "activate" them. The two are connected, but the music is just the reason why they realized that they are or might be Cylons. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:43, 14 April 2007 (CDT) | | :Sure, archive it. Though I will point out that if you read the [[Humanoid Cylon speculation/ColdBoot]] replacement that I started for it 6 months ago, it would in fact have led the reader to probably pick Ellen. Not sure why my efforts to get it live never amounted to anyting, but "nyah, nyah, I told you so..." :-) So archive that too. --[[User:Bradtem|bradtem]] 09:07, 20 January 2009 (UTC) |
| :RDM said the 4 are. Kara, I dunno. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 15:44, 14 April 2007 (CDT)
| | ::I'd say you'd get dibs on that prediction, Brad. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 03:27, 22 January 2009 (UTC) |
| ::Although I agree that in numerous sources we have all of the powers involved (Although Katee Sackhoff and RDM in interviews had said Starbuck was dead and not coming back when in reality she was returning) in the production of the show confirming that we know the identity of four of the final five I think it is premature to completely rid ourselves of this page. The page seems to be appropriately designed to allow for continued speculation on the Final Cylon. Once we know the identity of the last Cylon I would agree to the deletion of this page but since we still have one unknown I think we should keep this page as it is.--[[User:Zarek Rocks|Zarek Rocks]] 16:14, 14 April 2007 (CDT) | | ***Ellen was on a LOT of shortlists. Her mysterious survival, and then Saul being a Cylon... [[User:ZeldaTheSwordsman|ZeldaTheSwordsman]] 20:38, 29 January 2009 (UTC) |
| :RDM has consistently stated that the Final Five are fundamentally different than the "Significant Seven", and that Tyrol, Tigh, Anders and Foster were four of the Final Five. You have to remember that their activation is different from Boomer's activation in Season 1, in that they became aware that they were Cylons. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 16:59, 14 April 2007 (CDT)
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