Podcast:Bastille Day

"'Bastille Day' Commentary from Home Video Release" Podcast
[[File:{{{image}}}|200px|Bastille Day]]
{{{caption}}}
[ Download]
This podcast hasn't been fully transcribed yet
This podcast hasn't been verified yet
Posted on:
Transcribed by:
Verified by:
Length of Podcast:	43:42
Speaker(s)
Ronald D. Moore	Ronald D. Moore
	Terry Dresbach
David Eick	David Eick
Comedy Elements
Scotch:	{{{scotch}}}
Smokes:	{{{smokes}}}
Word of the Week:	{{{wordoftheweek}}}
Legal Notice
All contents are believed to be copyright by the speakers. Contents of this article may not be used under the Creative Commons license. This transcript is intended for nonprofit educational purposes. We believe that this falls under the scope of fair use. If the copyright holder objects to this use, please contact the transcriber(s) or site administrator Joe Beaudoin Jr. To view all the podcasts that have been transcribed, see the podcast project page.

In the commentary for "Bastille Day," Ron Moore and David Eick discuss the episode's creation and significance. They identify it as the first true standalone episode of the series, designed to be more heroic and uplifting to balance the dark tone of the preceding episode, "33," which had concerned the network.

The episode was conceived as a Lee Adama-centric story to flesh out his character beyond his initial strained relationship with his father. A major topic is the casting of Richard Hatch, the original Apollo, as the political radical Tom Zarek. Moore and Eick express their initial amusement and eventual deep respect for Hatch's performance, highlighting the dramatic weight of the "two Apollos" confronting each other.

They delve into the practical challenges of production, noting that the episode was unexpectedly expensive due to the construction of the prison set and the extensive visual effects required for the new location. This experience taught them to be more judicious about featuring locations off Galactica.

The commentary also touches on the development of the show's universe, including the introduction of its political landscape and the first overt references to its polytheistic religion with Greek mythological names. They discuss the evolution of minor characters, revealing that Cally was originally meant to be killed in this episode but was saved due to a desire to see her fight back, which cemented her role in the series, while the character of Boxey was gradually phased out as his storyline with Sharon became unworkable. Finally, they point out specific cinematic homages in the episode, including references to Dirty Harry and Jacob's Ladder.

Transcript

Ron Moore: This is, uh, Ron Moore,

David Eick: and David Eick.

Ron Moore: And we're here to, uh, give you the commentary track on, uh, Bastille Day, episode three of the first season. This episode was the first sort of standalone episode that we did last year. It's kind of the only standalone episode we did last year with the I guess the possible exception of "Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down." This was developed, uh, pretty early in the season as you might guess. And we were still trying different sort of, uh, formats and styles of storytelling. So we weren't quite sure what sort of show that worked best on the episodic level. I mean, we had done the Miniseries, we'd done 33 and Water. And Bastille Day was really the first time we tried to do just one contained story as opposed to a lot of different plot lines and a lot of different continuing tales. So as you watch this episode, it's pretty much a self-contained, standalone story. It's just the story of Lee Adama and, uh, Zarek, pretty much. It's pretty much their story with a minor subplot going on aboard Galactica with Baltar and Number Six.

David Eick: It's also, uh, kind of, I guess you could say the episode that got us out of hot water with the network. We were still suffering the kind of aftermath of what was a controversial battle, I guess you could say.

Ron Moore: Battle's a good word.

David Eick: About "33," the first episode. And it was certainly in the spirit of, you know, having a lot of support and a lot of love for the show, but it was such a dark tale and it had such a controversial story point involving the destruction of the passenger ship that contained people, and and the network was so, I think, you know, for reasons that are probably understandable, anxious to see if we could play any other chords within the context of the show. And so, this episode has, as Ron was just saying, more of a self-contained quality to it, but it's also got probably a little bit more of a an uplifting or heroic quality to it. It also represented the first time that we uh, did a Lee Adama-centric story. I mean it was early in the season. We hadn't really done anyone's specific stories yet. But, uh, Jamie Bamber, who plays Lee Adama, was, uh, the first one we chose to center a story around and and, as we'll see as we go through this, he really rose to the occasion.

Ron Moore: Yeah, Lee was sort of a an unusual character in that, you know, in the in the mini-series, he came in defined solely by the relationship with his father, and it was a very difficult, dysfunctional relationship he had had with Adama. The two had been separated for a couple of years. And so, as a result, his arrival aboard this ship was, uh, he was pretty sour, pretty unhappy through that whole mini-series. So there was a feeling on the part of the network that, you know, maybe he was coming off too unlikable. And so we wanted to do something to sort of demonstrate other sort of, uh, colors and other sort of qualities of Lee Adama, and this and this particular tale presented a good opportunity to do that.

David Eick: It was also, I don't want to get too far ahead, but it was also, speaking of controversy, it was the episode that reintroduced probably one of the more vocal opponents of the Battlestar Galactica remake, which was Richard Hatch, who played Apollo in the original Battlestar Galactica, and he turns up here as a a character, I guess we'll talk a little bit more about when we meet him, but as a very controversial figure and is someone who goes toe-to-toe with Lee. And there were many promo-worthy shots of Jamie Bamber and Richard Hatch standing together, Jamie Bamber with his gun at Richard Hatch's head. And you know, the two Apollos together. I remember we had set up this promo shoot outside one of the stages, and there was this Viper out there, and I was pacing around on a cell phone talking to you and David and Bradley about episode 10. And I was as I was walking around, I I looked over and I saw Richard Hatch, it was the first time I'd seen him in person because I had talked to him but I had never met him. First time I had seen him in person, he was standing next to Jamie and they both had their elbows on the wing of the Viper. And I was like, oh my god. What is happening? But, uh, I think the pleasant surprise, I don't mean this with any disrespect to Richard because I only knew him from the original Battlestar Galactica where he's playing a very specific kind of role, was the extent to which he rose to this occa I mean he was really, really good. Is really, really good and we've continued to use him. So it it was definitely an experiment worth, uh, worth attempting. And as it turned out, you know, the guy who was most, uh, vocally opposed to the remake of Battlestar Galactica has turned out to be one of its chief advocates now. You have to say.

Ron Moore: I I was really in love with the idea that, you know, if we were going to bring Richard on, his character's role would be the guy to say, "Everything about this show is wrong. All of this must be destroyed." And I just sort of loved that. There was something really delicious about that.

• • (Phone rings)**

David Eick: And you'll pardon a phone call.

Ron Moore: We're going to ignore it.

David Eick: We're at Ron's house. Ron has a, uh, a house in, uh, that he rents in Vancouver.

Ron Moore: It's actually an apartment, but who's splitting hairs?

David Eick: It's uh, and we're sitting here now. So we're watching this at his house. I've only been here when his wife is here with him, and his wife is not here with him now, so I'm I'm sort of feeling like we should be eating fried chicken and watching porno movies.

David Eick: I think what Ron was getting at before we were so rudely interrupted by your telephone, I think it was your wife. She wants something.

Ron Moore: I'm not getting that.

David Eick: Was that he was trying to say something about the political, um, landscape that we were exploring that really hadn't been explored previously.

Ron Moore: Yeah, it was I I felt that while, yeah, the problems, the specific issues, they had kind of dealt with in the mini-series and sort of come together and there was a nice warm hug at the end of the mini-series when father and son were reunited, especially after Adama thought his son was dead and his son performs heroically in the dogfight at the end. You kind of get the feeling like, you know, they're all going to face the future together. But I thought that, realistically speaking, that those kinds of issues between fathers and sons never really go away. I mean, they're always kind of there bubbling beneath the surface and that that would always be a hallmark of their relationship, even as they resolved to sort of try to put it behind them as best as they can. So this was the episode where Lee is sort of front and center and Lee has to make all the choices and decisions and and you know, as you've probably already seen the episode, otherwise why are you listening to this now? But as you know at the end, Lee presents them with a fait accompli and just says, "This is what I've done and you've got to live with it," which I thought is really great, not only as a character but also as just sort of, you know, a son standing up and sort of presenting something to his father as a man.

David Eick: And it's also, I don't want to keep harping on this, but it also became sort of a an analogy for us in in the writing process of the show for the next year to come in that we would sometimes...

David Eick: This is also this is... I'm sorry, to stop again. This is also an episode that has an unusually high volume of what we call set pieces, meaning we're going to various different locations with various different characters that require a significant amount of preparation and art department effort.

David Eick: And it's it's so much of a, you know... I I really... And this this show, I think, made me aware of this. It's so much about what you don't show, because to really show all of this, you know, these people and this civilization living in these different kind of environments, would would just eat up so much of your of your budget and your schedule that you really just have to pick and choose your battles.

Ron Moore: It was also an opportunity to start dealing with sort of the society and the politics of life in the Rag-Tag Fleet, which is something I would always sort of been interested in since David and I first talked about doing the series at all. I mean, here's this 50, roughly 50,000 survivors of the Holocaust out in space on their own. And it's a motley collection of odd people. And how would they sort of adjust to that kind of life? And Zarek's character I've tried to always use in the show as sort of the person who would ask some of these, you know, fundamental questions. And in this episode, he's questioning the fundamental legitimacy of the of the government that they're all operating under. You know, who elected Laura Roslin? Well, nobody. You know, why do they have to listen to her? You know, didn't is this really the decision of free men and women? Is this really what a democracy is all about? Isn't it all just a cover for, you know, military rule in this situation? Doesn't anybody have a voice? And I think those are legitimate, interesting questions. And you know, the whole notion of the prison ship was really something, uh, I seated in in a throwaway line in the mini-series. There was a line towards the end of the mini-series when Laura and Adama are meeting in Galactica and there's a she gets a call from the Astral Queen, which is an unfortunate name for a prison ship, but there you go.

David Eick: Why is that? I don't even know what you're talking about. Is that a show or something? I don't even get that.

Ron Moore: It just seems like a weird name for a prison ship. I don't know why. Oh no, I think I take that back. I think it's actually a Trek homage to like a ship that Kirk mentioned like once in some episode. It's called the Astral Queen. It's one of those dumb things you put in and then later go, "God, that's a bad name for a prison ship." But anyway, it was a throwaway line that the captain of the Astral Queen had called and wanted to know what to do with the prisoners. And Laura had made a point of saying, you know, we're not going to start just throwing these people overboard. And at the time, I always thought, well, this is also just a jumping off point for the series when we when we actually get to take the show to series. And when David and I were putting together a a list of potential stories and episodes for the network when they were getting ready to order the show, one of the log lines was a prison riot. It just seemed like a natural that, you know, if you're going to do the show, at some point where the people aboard the prison ship riot and it's Attica, Attica, you know, and you've got that whole area to to tell a story. So it was always going to be one of the easier shows to sort of, uh, produce. It just became one of the first three.

David Eick: Yeah, this episode did give us a lot to discuss in terms of what we would be doing in subsequent seasons. We have an episode this year which is all about the election that we teased, uh, in the first season that's coming up.

Ron Moore: Well, it's also it's also the show that's... and it's also the show that made us realize that every time we did a show like this, it would be insanely expensive. We were always under the impression like, well, we can just go to another ship and it'll be fine. Yeah, we'll go to the hospital ship or the or the school ship, and we can just sort of pop around the fleet. And this was the first time we popped around the fleet and it cost a fortune. And after this episode, we were like, we're not doing that again. We're staying on Galactica.

Ron Moore: And this is the first episode that we that also introduced the notion that the Colonial Fleet uniforms are blue and that the uniforms aboard Galactica are green. And that's, again, an homage to the original show where they had the two colors in uniform. So we decided to make that a kind of a visual reference point for the old and the new as well.

David Eick: As you can see, this location is actually a real location that, um, you know, was a great find. It just, you know, it's one of those things that kind of just looks like a prison. Uh, it was a sound stage that we actually we actually, I think, we rented an abandoned sound stage or something like that.

Ron Moore: It was a warehouse or something.

David Eick: It was a warehouse and we built those cells.

Ron Moore: Yeah. And that's also why it cost so much money because there were very few, I think we only had like three or four of these sort of cells and any any of the big wide shots is really a visual effect.

David Eick: Yeah. And these are, this is this is not an easy episode in many ways, because you're introducing characters you've never met before, and you're investing in them, hopefully. Um, in in this case, the, uh, you know, Zarek and Zarek's henchmen. You have to cast actors who can really fill up the screen in a short amount of time. You don't have a lot of time to get to know them. And, uh, I think we did a pretty good job. I think, um, Mason is the character the guy's name I think is Brent. The guy who played Mason, and Zarek is, you know, Richard Hatch, but it really gives us an opportunity to to see sort of a more a broader sense of the fleet itself. And this this shot in particular, that shot of the big wide shot of all the prisoners is something that's always very difficult to accomplish.

Ron Moore: Yeah, it's really the two Apollos. You know, Richard Hatch played Apollo, Jamie Bamber plays Apollo. And it was just it was it was just such a stunt, but it also really worked dramatically. I thought it was I I just I still look at these scenes and and I really enjoy the fact that it's the two of them. They just look great together.

Ron Moore: It's interesting how many of our actors have, uh, have roots in the Vancouver acting community as well. I mean, Richard is not one of them, but, uh, Kandyse and Grace, and, um...

David Eick: Paul.

Ron Moore: And Paul. Tahmoh.

David Eick: Tahmoh. Um, I mean, the truth is, is that, you know, we went to Vancouver with a very kind of specific design in mind for casting, which was that we'd bring in our leads from Los Angeles and New York. And, uh, we'd cast the rest of the roles in, uh, from the local pool. And as we got into the process, it became very evident very quickly that some of our strongest players were local.

Ron Moore: We we originally thought that Starbuck would be a local casting too. We thought we would find her up there.

David Eick: Yeah, and we, you know, we got a lot of flack for not casting Katie up there because there was this sort of political, uh, issue that arose between the unions and such. But we had to do it. There was just no one who quite had that, uh, magic that she had.

Ron Moore: Yeah. And then Grace, of course, really nailed the part of Sharon. We read tons of girls for Sharon in Los Angeles and didn't find anybody. And then we went to Vancouver and there was Grace. And the first day we read, she was just she was it.

David Eick: Yeah. She actually read for Dualla originally. Yeah. Originally. Yeah. And she had that quality. There was something so fresh about her and so authentic that, uh, we knew we had something special.

David Eick: This is one of the more fun parts of the show.

Ron Moore: Yeah, I I really enjoy watching this every week. What will they do this time? How are they going to slam dunk? It's so cute.

David Eick: It's a great little sequence. I I love this. I think it's very clever.

Ron Moore: I'm glad they do it.

David Eick: So you're Ron Moore?

Ron Moore: Uh, today I am. I don't know who I'll be next week.

David Eick: What about tomorrow?

Ron Moore: Tomorrow? Tomorrow I am a large purple dinosaur.

David Eick: Wow.

David Eick: Alan Kroeker who's a veteran of Star Trek... and Roswell... he was a very affable guy... we had only done one episode of this show not directed by Michael Rymer... so we were still at the embryonic stage of how do you make Battlestar Galactica when Rymer's not around...

David Eick: ...my penchant for cinematic references... I'm going to the encyclopedia of film... and using it to punctuate scenes... what you just saw there was a literal reference to the film Jacob's Ladder...

Ron Moore: I thought it was... Boxey was going to form a family unit with Tyrol and Sharon... and that was a different flavor... I didn't know that Sharon was going to realize she was a Cylon until the end of season one... it wasn't until Water... I was working on the draft and I didn't have anything to open the show with... and I decided what if Sharon wakes up soaking wet... and immediately you're going straight into the Sharon is a Cylon subplot... we even had scenes that we shot with Boxey and Sharon in that early episode which then got cut... So the whole Sharon-Tyrol story started to change... so what do you do with Boxey? We had long discussions... we started to say, 'Well, he's the Artful Dodger...'

Ron Moore: I think we had Cally... I think she was going to die in the initial drafts of this... he rapes and kills her... and Lee... and they were telling us the show was too dark this year... I don't think anybody... I don't think they even care... who cares if Cally... and I think it was your note... you said you wanted Cally to fight back and show some balls... and I think you said she bites his ear off... and I wrote it... she bites his ear off... and from that moment on... she really became part of the show...

Ron Moore: This is when I started to actually use like Greek mythology in the show... it wasn't really until this episode when I was working on the scene between Zarek and Lee that I started to say, 'Well, they really are polytheists... so let's call them by their proper names.' And Zarek starts talking about Zeus and Apollo as gods... which starts to make the audience wonder what is the connective tissue between this universe and our own... which came first? Are these guys our ancestors? Are these guys our descendants? Is it simply a parallel world... and I think some of the interesting things in the show is trying to track that...

David Eick: ...in the teaser of the miniseries, Ron had in the script a reference to the Armistice Station officer eating an apple... and whether that was an overt measure on Ron's part or not... don't tell me, I don't want to know... I love that because I thought, 'That's great'... and now it's been cut... but I thought that's great... the armistice station officer... finds himself bored... and pulls out an apple... because to me that says, 'Okay, right away we're in a universe that is for whatever reason or in whatever way a sister culture to ours.' It's not some bizarro fruit... as a producer, you think in terms of, 'Great, once I understand that principle, it means we don't have to invent the doorknobs... we don't have to invent the telephones...'

David Eick: There's another line in the miniseries where the girl says, 'Then we're going to have chicken pie and then I'm going to bed.' And I was like, 'Yes, chicken, see? Chicken pie.' How can they have chickens unless they're a sister culture? So I loved all those things.

Ron Moore: I like this because Adama, before the attack, ran kind of a loose ship... he wasn't a taskmaster... this is a guy who had a really sloppy room, who slurps noodles and sits around and lets his officers get away with murder... Starbuck punches out Tigh and Adama's making excuses for her... he's a guy on his way out... and then comes the attack. And I thought there was something really interesting about the series being about that ship and its crew as opposed to being, you know, the finest in the fleet...

Ron Moore: It's the hero in all of us... it's that notion that heroes are born in the moment... they're everyday Joes that suddenly find themselves in extraordinary circumstances.

Ron Moore: I love this because you think you know the end... you think they're going to make up... and he just shoves it back in her face and kicks her out the door. And I love that.

Ron Moore: This sets us up for the election... I didn't know when we were doing this whether we were going to get to the election by the end of the season or not, and fortunately we did not... but it was interesting to set these sort of pieces in motion...

Ron Moore: This is where she says she's dying, right? Yeah, that's right. I was just... God, it's been so long. I was sitting here going, 'What's the end of this scene?' That's right.

Ron Moore: One of the nice things we do in the show is that we carry all these scars and wounds episode to episode. People get hurt and it actually sticks around, which is really great because in... it's very unusual. Typically, you know, somebody gets hurt this week, next week there's no sign of it... In our show, man, it's like Lee has a little thing on the side of his cheek and next week it'll probably be there.

Ron Moore: This is where you start feeling the specific nature of our universe... Yes, she's the president, yes, he's the senior leader... but there's really no one else out there... there's no judiciary, there's no bureaucracy... this is it, boys and girls. And Lee really puts his finger on it. It's like, 'Well, if we're violating the law, then you ain't the president and you ain't the commander, and screw both of you.' And he gets to say that because it's absolutely true. There's really no recourse. They kind of have to live with it.

David Eick: Alan did a very good job at finding or certainly allowing that sort of tonal gray area to emerge here.

David Eick: This is my wife Jenny's favorite scene in the first season. I got shit from Jenny, my wife Jenny, about the cleavage here.

Ron Moore: My wife did too. Terry said the same thing. She was like busting my chops about, 'What's with all the cleavage on Katie?'

David Eick: And then Katie complained and said... I think it might have been her idea... and then I think she saw it and thought it was gratuitous or something.

Ron Moore: I was surprised, frankly, because I didn't know what to expect from Jamie... when he really got in Zarek's face here and he's scary and threatening, it started to really open up other story possibilities for Apollo that were different from the Apollo that we'd seen so far, which was very straight-laced... This Apollo, you get a feeling is a little more dangerous... if you push this guy in the wrong direction, you may not like what you get.

Ron Moore: Why is Kara the sniper? is kind of a legitimate question... In truth, a ship like Galactica... this is the first time we mentioned that Galactica has Marines on board... and you would assume they would have their own sniper. But this is one of the concessions you make to the form... you don't want to just keep introducing tons of new characters every week when you have main cast regulars... and it was part of Starbuck's character that she was sort of the pure warrior... and this was an opportunity to say that she was more than that... so we just sort of said, 'Yeah, you know what? Starbuck's going to be the sniper and she's going to lead the mission.' And that's a better drama... it allows you to put her into a position by the end of the show where she's looking down the scope and there's Lee and Lee's blocking her view...

David Eick: She's so sells it. I mean, you you don't for an instant find yourself aware of a girl playing a guy's role... she's so utterly convincing and she just inhabits the role so effortlessly that you just go, 'Okay, she's the sniper.' And you just buy it and you just move on.

David Eick: She is quite, and and hopefully by the time Katie Sackhoff is so bored she's actually listening to this, I'll have her wrapped up on a much longer deal, but she really is quite a discovery.

David Eick: Here comes another one... Alan and I had a number of conversations about the shot in my favorite movie, Dirty Harry... which is coming up right about now... Yes... that is the 'I know what you're thinking, punk' shot, down to the move, the lens, the distance of the camera away from the actor... we were pretty precise with that... and I have to say, it was pretty effective.

Ron Moore: I was really in love with the idea that he was going to press the muzzle against Zarek's cheek. I remember that was the fight. I kept saying, 'No, he should push the muzzle against his cheek or his forehead.'

David Eick: Had Clint Eastwood done that to anybody, I would have been happy to do it, but unfortunately Mr. Siegel did not choose to do it that way.

Ron Moore: There's just enough separation to be able to give you this shot, which is really the point of the exercise.

David Eick: It's a great, it's a great moment.

Ron Moore: It is a great moment.

David Eick: And this is where Starbuck, you know, she's...

Ron Moore: She's got to make the call.

David Eick: She's got to make the call. And she's got to, you know, she's got to be the one to pull the trigger.

Ron Moore: And it's her friend's life on the line. And it's just, it's a great, it's a great sequence.

Ron Moore: And then he lets him go. And you're like, 'What the hell?'

David Eick: Yeah.

Ron Moore: And that's the thing that I love about the show is that we do things that are unexpected. You know, you think you know where the story is going and then we take a left turn.

Ron Moore: And this is the beginning of the political storyline that will carry through the rest of the season.

David Eick: Yeah, and it's interesting because, you know, we had a lot of discussions about whether or not we wanted to do a political storyline. And I think we were all a little bit hesitant at first because we didn't want to get bogged down in, you know, talking heads and, you know, C-SPAN in space.

Ron Moore: Right.

David Eick: But I think what we found is that the politics of this world are so personal and so character-driven that it's really not about, you know, policy debates. It's about these people and their relationships and their struggles for power.

Ron Moore: And this is a great little scene between Tigh and Starbuck. You know, he's, he's pissed off at her, but he also respects her. And she's, you know, she's got his back.

Ron Moore: And this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

David Eick: Yeah, I love this scene. I think it's really well-written and well-acted. And it's just, you know, it's a great way to end the episode.

Ron Moore: And it's also, you know, it's a great setup for what's to come. You know, you've got these two people who are now allies, and you know that they're going to be a force to be reckoned with.

David Eick: So, that's Bastille Day.

Ron Moore: That's Bastille Day. And, uh, you know, I think it's a really strong episode. I think it's one of our best of the first season.

David Eick: I agree. I think it's a great episode. And I think it's a great example of what this show can be when it's firing on all cylinders.

Ron Moore: Yeah. And I think, you know, a lot of that has to do with the cast. I mean, they're just, they're just phenomenal. They're just so good.

David Eick: They are. They're amazing. And, you know, we're so lucky to have them.

Ron Moore: We are. We're very lucky.