Talk:Fall of the Scorpion Fleet Shipyards/Archive 1

Casualties[edit]

Not sure how many of you saw the DVD screener already. What's clear is that we probably have to create a separate battle page for the attack on the com relay.

Somewhat unexpectedly, however, "Razor" puts the Cylon boarding action not at the attack on the shipyards, but the com relay attack soon after. Nothing wrong with that, but it creates some weirdness with the casualty numbers. In "Pegasus" Cain says that there were over 700 casualties until she made it to CIC. Then in the extended version, she specifically says that Gina allowed a boarding party on board which caused 800 casualties. "Razor" confirms this number, but as said, places the boarding action later. This would mean that about 1500 people were lost in total, which strikes me as a bit high. That's half the ship's crew! If it weren't for the more explicit line from the extended version (though I'll have to watch it again to see what she says exactly), one could say that the 800 includes the 700 lost earlier, but with it that doesn't work so well. --Serenity 17:41, 3 November 2007 (CDT)

I haven't seen it yet, to be honest, but it wouldn't surprise me if they fudged the numbers a bit. They did it before with the Astral Queen numbers. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate - Sanctuary Wiki — New} 19:37, 3 November 2007 (CDT)

If the show isn't fudging the numbers, Cain was, giving that she later acquired a few new conscripts. --Spencerian 00:40, 4 November 2007 (CDT)

The error isn't really in "Razor" as such, since Shaw just says "final casualty numbers", which can mean the total number since the Cylon attack. In the extended cut of "Pegasus", Cain says "it killed over 800 members of my crew". Maybe we could interpret that as including both battles, since it's also implied that Gina tampered a bit with the computer systems. Assuming that Pegasus picked up a few hundred conscripts to make for the numbers isn't really realistic. --Serenity 07:09, 4 November 2007 (CST)

Battlestar numbers[edit]

While "Razor" only seems to show 2 battlestars, Cain mentions two as destroyed in "Pegasus". That's why it said 3/2. Maybe the vessel above Pegasus counts as battlestar, in which case that would be a new class. In any case you forgot to update the battle box as well. --Serenity 11:28, 7 November 2007 (CST)

In "Razor" we see Pegasus, one Galactica type, two Valkyrie types with rollbar attachments(possibly part of the dockyard rig?) and two of the new class, which appears to be based on one of the Galactica concept designs. It seems to contradict what Cain originally said since we know that the Valkyrie was a battlestar, but perhaps the ships of that type at the dockyard were variants, making them destroyers or frigates or somesuch. --Pearse 12:04, 7 November 2007 (CST)

During the main establishing shot at ~6:36 there is a Galactica-type in the upper right and Pegasus low right, with one very large ship above it. And it doesn't look like Valkyrie at all. The left-most berth appears to be empty, though it can't be seen fully. There might be one ship in the arm left of Pegasus. To the left of the Galactica-type there might be a smaller ship. The rest is the superstructure of the shipyard. I can't really see any other larger vessels. --Serenity 12:42, 7 November 2007 (CST)

Look at ~6:39. The things to the left and right of the Galactica-type battlestar are clearly part of the shipyard. There is a ship right above Pegasus, but it looks too small to be a battlestar. The weird thing about this shot is that the Galactica-type looks bigger than Pegasus, even though Pegasus is closer to the camera. --Catrope^{(Talk to me or e-mail me)} 13:18, 7 November 2007 (CST)

No. I mean further left. The thing left of the ring around the battlestar. The right part of that could be a ship, maybe. It might just be part of the superstructure though. Hard to tell. --Serenity 13:31, 7 November 2007 (CST)

If memory serves, Cain's line in "Pegasus" was something like "There were .. ships in the shipyard, two of them battlestars." I always assumed those two included Pegasus. --Catrope^{(Talk to me or e-mail me)} 12:24, 7 November 2007 (CST)

No. The line goes "Five ships, two of them battlestars, they were destroyed right there." She refers only to the destroyed ships. Or if you want to fudge it, to those immediately destroyed. --Serenity 12:42, 7 November 2007 (CST)

The Valkyrie types are the ones being destroyed at 14:08 and 15:09. All together we see at least four ships exploding, all of which seem large enough to be battlestars, but we can't know the actual designations of the new ones. Some could be considered support ships despite their large size. It all depends on their roles in the fleet, doesn't it? --Pearse 13:31, 7 November 2007 (CST)

Ah yes. They appear to be to the left of Pegasus, though it isn't clear. In which case they can be in the lower left part of the yard, which clearly has at least one ship in the establishing shot (there can be more, it just can't be seen very well). Emphasizing the "right there", this even fits with Cain's comment, since the other ships appear to last a bit longer than the initial attack. --Serenity 13:49, 7 November 2007 (CST)

Berzerk Orthos[edit]

The two support vessels present at the Shipyards (one above Pegasus) are the work of Charles Oines. He created them way before Razor. Here are some pictures. He had them in his portfolio few days ago, but put them down now. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Helo87 (talk • contribs).

[1] Razor Screenshot. [2] Render model. [3] Schematics. [4] Evolution. [5] Oines's Portfolio. --Deus 18:13, 7 November 2007 (CST)

That ship was an early design of the Galactica, and you can see that on the miniseries DVD. Oines merely created a more detailed model of this vessel. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Helo87 (talk • contribs).

Well, it looks like it but, they obviously used his model. Look at the engines. [6]--Deus 18:40, 7 November 2007 (CST)

Ok, I have more more picturs of Berzerk here [7]. It's from SciFi Mesches Forum from Charles Oines. All of them done before Razor aired (leaked), so the one with comparsion with Galactica is wrong since in Razor Berzerk was almost as long as Pegasus. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Deus (talk • contribs).