Talk:List of pilots/Archive 1

Capitalization

I don't particularly care whether or not the terms Viper or Raptor are capitalized, but according to Battlestar_Wiki:FAQ/Proper_BSG_nouns, they needn't be. --Peter Farago 22:59, 21 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Post-Pegasus

My purpose in maintaining this list was to keep track of the fleet's limited manpower, which was made quite a big deal of in "Act of Contrition". However, the number of possible pilots was clearly exceeded in the episode "Flight of the Phoenix", which seems to indicate that the showrunners are no longer keeping track. Furthermore, the episode "Pegasus" is scheduled to introduce several new pilots, which will probably make this even more difficult and fruitless to keep track of. I see two options here:

• Note that the list covers the events of the Mini-series through "Final Cut" and leave it as a reference to those episodes.
• Reformat to include Pegasus characters but keep track of them separately, using the following outline structure:

• Active
  • Galactica
    • Vipers
    • Raptors
    • ECOs
    • Others
  • Pegasus
    • Vipers
    • Raptors
    • ECOs
    • Others
• Deceased
  • Galactica

...

or

• Galactica
  • Active
    • Vipers
    • Raptors
    • ECOs
    • Others
  • Deceased

...

• Pegasus
  • Active
    • Vipers

...

et cetera. Do any of you have any thoughts? Is this even a useful resource, now that the showrunners are apparently not keeping track themselves? --Peter Farago 17:44, 21 September 2005 (EDT)

IMHO, I think it is still a useful resource. Pilots are not easily replaced, but the influx of people from the Pegasus will likely cause some issues with this list, skewing the numbers a bit. Just my .02 cubits. -- Joe Beaudoin 22:44, 21 September 2005 (EDT)

I think it's premature to decide the writers have given up pilot continuity because of one effects continuity error. I would suggest that keeping track as much as possible and making careful judgements as to whether any further sorties seem plausible is still a valuable service. Even with the Pegasus squadron around as an unknown X factor we might get more dialogue indicating the number of pilots in the fleet. -- Dogger 21:37, 07 December 2005 (EDT)

I think the actual "numbers" section should be divided into pre- and post-Pegasus. That said, I think the format of having separate lists for "those originally from Galactica" and "those originall from Pegasus" should work; for example, if Starbuck ends up on Pegasus for an extended period of time, having her mini-bio in this pilot list put in the Galactica-Pilots list, but within the bio mention "currently assigned to Pegasus". --Ricimer 22:37, 7 December 2005 (EST)

I think their "current" assignments are more relevant, myself. We can note their origins parenthetically. --Peter Farago 22:47, 7 December 2005 (EST)

Here's a Q&A with Ron Moore where he's asked about the Flight of the Phoenix number of Vipers. He answers that it was probably just a mistake, but he isn't sure. At least this is acknowledgement of possibly making a mistake. http://www.battlestargalactica.com/outside_docs/bg_outdoc0050.htm

Pilots in Sickbay

I'd like to add something to the pilot number for Act of Contrition when Apollo is talking to Starbuck about washing out the nuggets. I got the idea that when Apollo said he only had 21 pilots for 40 Vipers, he meant he 'currently' only had 21. The 21 wouldn't include the 7 pilots (Raptor or Viper) that were injured and sent to sickbay. These extra 7 pilots could all be Viper pilots or suviving Raptor pilots, we don't really know, but I think this is worth mentioning. It could account for extra pilots in the rest of the series. Ltcrashdown December 23, 2005

I considered this in an earlier version of this document, and agree that it probably needs to be explicated better. --Peter Farago 20:56, 23 December 2005 (EST)

Here's some updated information for Lieutenant Emmit from Home (1). This is from the closing credits of the episode. Her character's full name is listed as 'Lt. Emmitt "Sweetness" Jones'. It means that she was refering to herself by her first name during the Striker incident. Ltcrashdown December 23, 2005

I've got a pilot that needs to be added to the list, but I want to make sur it's okay first. Tucker "Duck" Clellan is the pilot. he's from Flight of the Pheonix. He was there for the cardgame at the beginning in the card game with Starbuck, Racetrack, and Hot DOg. He's also flying a Viper during the Cylon massacre. Ltcrashdown December 25, 2005

Raptor Pilots

When Adama recruits Gal-Boomer to fly in KLG2, he says this: "Things are moving very quickly and I need every pilot." We can assume he's not an idiot, and knew that she had just survived a suicide attempt, so she must actually have been his very last competant Raptor pilot. At this time, five raptor pilots were deployed (two dead on Kobol, three or four to Colonial One, depending on whether Apollo was a pilot or passenger) Thus, we can conclude that as of KLG, pt. II, there were no more than six or seven extant raptor pilots. Does this sound fair? --Peter Farago 20:54, 30 December 2005 (EST)

Well....a bit too speculative for my personal taste, I must say. Later in season 2 they mention that they have AT LEAST 5 Raptors left. I'm not sure. --Ricimer 21:20, 30 December 2005 (EST)

New Pegasus Pilot

I'm going to go ahead and add a new pilot to Pegasus's roster. Fei "Freaker" Firelli was listed in the closing credits of Resurrection Ship Part 1, and since there was only one minor pilot in the episode (the one that tangled with Kat during the Dog Fight), I'm listing him under Pegasus. Feel free to delete the change if you disagree with my addition. Unfortunately, the credits rolled too fast for me to check out the actor who played him, but at least we have a name for now. --Ltcrashdown 02:04, 7 January 2006 (EST)

Oops, my mistake. I doubt anyone caught this, but it was a different pilot tangling with Kat in the dogfight. THis pilot was Richard "Buster" Bayer, according to http://www.battlestargalactica.com/outside_docs/bg_outdoc0015.htm and http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0407362/guests under the credits for episode 2.11. This corresponds to the barely visible 'Uster' seen under the pilot during the dogfight scene. I guess that "Freaker" is a pilot cut from the episode because I don't remember any other pilots other than the Galactica regulars, Stinger, and Kat. I'll move Firelli to the Viper list and replace Buster on the Pegasus list.

The Mystery of Freaker

Peter, thanks for finding an appropriate spot for Fei "Freaker" Firelli. Once I know more about his role, depending on when Resurrection Ship part is re-ran, I'll update it. I consider posting info on obscure pilots to be one of my callings on this wiki-resource.--Ltcrashdown 23:34, 7 January 2006 (EST)

Cruft Removal

After chewing on the numbers and reflecting on Galactica's recruitment practices, it's clear to me that keeping track of a maximum number of pilots available is a fruitless exercise. Unless anyone is especially attached to the analysis content of this article, I would like to strike it and reduce the page to a more streamlined list. --Peter Farago 19:59, 5 February 2006 (EST)

I'm not sure I agree with striking it altogether, although I don't really care where it goes or what it's paired with. Two reasons: (a) As we have just seen in the Season 2 finale Lay Down Your Burdens, this show can change radically. Recruitment practices that apply today might not be feasible tomorrow. In Season 4 there might three pilots left. You just don't know, is my point. And (b) even if pilot count never becomes an issue again, it most certainly was an issue in the early episodes, so this analysis still have value to resolve arguments about those episodes.--Dogger 22:14, 14 March 2006 (CST)

Just to clarify -- I always thought it was a little bit odd to have the analysis of the numbers of pilots and vipers on the 'List of Pilots' page. To me they serve two entirely different functions: that of 'databasing' or cataloguing show elements, and that of tracking the show's continuity and logic. I have written a proposal for a separate 'Logic & Continuity' page and posted it in My Talk for my user (sorry I don't quite know how to link properly yet). If this page is created, we can move the numerical analysis of pilots to be the first item on it.--Dogger 06:18, 16 March 2006 (CST)

Mentioned-Only Characters

I'd like to suggest that some of the 'mentioned-only' characters be incorporated into the main body of pilot listings. While some callsigns from the mini may make sens to be listed under 'status unknown', I think names like Beehive and Stubbs should be included in the main Galactica pilot list because it's hard to explain why they are listed at the bottom, while other 'mentioned-only' callsigns or names are put in the main body. If anyone agrees, I'll swap the names out right away. --Ltcrashdown 23:07, 22 February 2006 (EST)

They're listed at the bottom because unnamed pilots matching their description have been killed since their last appearance. We have no reason not to suspect that Stubbs wasn't the pilot of, say, Raptor 3, gunned down in KLG 2. Thus, he's in the "Status Unknown" category, which is at the bottom, after "Deceased". --Peter Farago 02:54, 23 February 2006 (EST)

Season 3 Changes

I was wondering if we should go ahead and change some of the listed pilot (mainly Starbuck and Duck) to the inactive pilot list to match up with what we've seen of Seaon 3 so far. Whenever the former pilots rejoin the fleet, we can always change it back. Anyone who agrees with this, feel free to let me know what you think should be done. --ltcrashdown

I concur. --CalculatinAvatar^(C-T) 15:14, 2 October 2006 (CDT)

I agree, but I wonder if we could somehow revise the page to take a more diachronic approach. --Peter Farago 18:22, 2 October 2006 (CDT)

I went ahead and adjusted the notes. Should Lee Adama be added to the inactive pilot list? I notice he's not listed under anything right now. --ltcrashdown

Well, given his command of Pegasus, I sincerely doubt that he has had the time to keep up on his flight hours. However, this is more of a conjecture on my part, since nothing for or against this has indicated his pilot status. For instance, I know that command officers who wish to retain an active flight status have to log in a certain amount of hours per month (or evaluation period, IIRC). Since nothing similar has been indicated thus far, I don't know how accurate this is in the BSG universe. We may find out tonight, though. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 09:26, 6 October 2006 (CDT)

It would seem odd to list Lee without listing Bill and Saul. --Peter Farago 11:16, 6 October 2006 (CDT)

I agree. However, I've added a section of people who were active pilots post-attack, which deals with the Bill and Saul issue. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 11:29, 6 October 2006 (CDT)

Update

This list needs a serious update. Since Pegasus is no more, the lists should be merged and every pilot not seen on the chart in The Passage should be moved to "status unknown". There are some new names there, too Ausir 13:28, 9 December 2006 (CST)

I agree. Currently this entry is a bit messy and needs a fresh look. -- Spike 21:20, 11 December 2006 (CST)

Perhaps a table system, similar to what is presently used on the Military Ranks (RDM) article? -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 21:31, 11 December 2006 (CST)

A few points to any revisers (Talos, that would be you) as the originator of this page (and it was my very first contribution to the wiki): The original purpose here was to keep track of named and unnamed pilots during the pilot shortage which lasted from "Act of Contrition" to "Resurrection Ship, Part II". During this time no continuity errors were ever encountered. In light of this, and the non-issue of pilot availability since the start of the second season, it may be wise to dispense entirely with that function of the page.

I originally had pilots grouped by ship and specialty (Viper/Raptor/ECO). Since there is now only one ship, and since both Viper pilots like Apollo, Kat and Hot Dog and ECOs like Helo and Racetrack have been repeatedly shown to be competent Raptor pilots, these distinctions no longer seem as relevant. However, it's worth noting that Helo, Athena, Racetrack, and other Raptor-associated pilots have yet to be seen piloting Vipers, and ECO duties continue to be performed by specialists. Perhaps we could whip up a set of icons to use to indicate qualifications (Viper, Raptor and DRADIS icons, maybe?). --Peter Farago 22:25, 11 December 2006 (CST)

FYI, I'm working on a new draft myself. --Peter Farago 01:52, 12 December 2006 (CST)

I agree with your thoughts on the page. I tried to reply late last night but it wouldn't go through. Anyway, what you've done to the page is exactly what I was thinking, even down to the letters to represent qualifications. Good work! --Talos 07:41, 12 December 2006 (CST)

Thanks. Do you think someone could whip up some cute icons to replace the V/R/E badges? Maybe a DRADIS display or a radar dish for ECO qualification? Or would that look cluttery? --Peter Farago 19:00, 13 December 2006 (CST)

I think the V/R/E works, although a little upper pic of a Viper, a Raptor, and maybe a DRADIS screen, colored and almost chibi could work. --Talos 20:50, 13 December 2006 (CST)

Like these? (BTW, are you the same Talos that created these?) --Peter Farago 01:46, 14 December 2006 (CST)

Raygun

So I recently "received" this episode, and I noticed that when Adama was putting Kat in her place on the board, the name Raymond "Raygun" Lai was up there. Now We all remember his viper is the one Kara Thrace took out of the museum in the miniseries, so, is he still active? How old is this guy? --Zach Schmidt

It's such an obvious (and minor) blooper that I don't think it's worth the confusion of noting here. If someone mentions him in dialogue, it'll be worth revisiting. --Peter Farago 01:45, 14 December 2006 (CST)