Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank/Deletion Archives: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 20:29, 7 March 2007

"Vote"

Method 1

Support On further pondering implementation, it seems like creating an entire namespace (and all the little search clicky things that that adds), just leaving the discussion along and tagging it seems like a simpler solution. Also, it'd be an easy way to organize and allow subsequent discussions regarding deletion/undeletion, and navigation would be a lot easier. --Steelviper 10:02, 7 March 2007 (CST)

Support If the namespace thing doesn't work out on the HB, this would be the second option. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 12:57, 7 March 2007 (CST)

Method 2

Support Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 11:11, 6 March 2007 (CST)

Method 3

Support --Catrope 11:15, 6 March 2007 (CST)

Comment Sorry, I was too lazy to type it out and wanted to copy/paste it, but must have hit "cut" instead. --Serenity 13:54, 6 March 2007 (CST)

Comment I propose we archive the deleted pages themselves as well. If you've been away for a while, there is no way to find out what was deleted. --Catrope 11:15, 6 March 2007 (CST)

Comment Actually, that's a pretty good idea. (Not that the pages are actually deleted from the database anyway, because they're still there, they just can't be accessed by anyone other than the admins. So it should be a simple matter of "undeleting" and moving.) -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 11:19, 6 March 2007 (CST)

Comment I know. But most people around here are not admins ;) BTW, we could have the namespaces "Deleted:" and "Deleted talk:", undelete everything we can and put it in there. --Catrope 14:11, 6 March 2007 (CST)

Oppose The reason I am opposed to this is because if we add a namespace to the system, it has to be the same for also de, fr, tr, etc. It might not be the same lanugage. So doing this just for english seems unneeded for it's own namespace. Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 15:15, 6 March 2007 (CST)

Comment Do you mean that even in DE, talk pages are in the Talk: namespace? 'Cause at Wikipedia.nl, they're in the Overleg: namespace, Wikipedia.fr has Discussion: (I think), etc. --Catrope 15:28, 6 March 2007 (CST)

Comment That's not what I said. Default namespaces are pre-programmed by the software. i.e. Quotes namespace is the same through out all the wikis. There is no change in lanauge. Yes... we could rename it to their lanaguage our speficy just this happen on the "EN" wiki, but using custom namesapces for something like this Mediawiki will not work. If I go http://de.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/User:Shane it formats correctly because the system known user is what ever it is "de". But from http://de.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Benutzer:Shane to http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Benutzer:Shane it will not work. So creating a newspace would create it even in de and it will always be "Delete" or whatever. Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 16:49, 6 March 2007 (CST)

Also... Wikipedia:Articles for deletion is already pretty well suitied and I think this is more "needed". Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 23:09, 6 March 2007 (CST)

Honestly, I utterly despise the AFD process. It is needlessly volatile and all I'm looking for is a means to archive deletion discussions. That's it. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 23:13, 6 March 2007 (CST)

Support -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 11:19, 6 March 2007 (CST)
Support --Serenity 11:41, 6 March 2007 (CST)
Support --Talos 13:52, 6 March 2007 (CST)
Support We need to ensure that the items deleted DON'T get copied back somewhere else (isn't that the point of deleting?) --Spencerian 14:35, 6 March 2007 (CST)

Comments

So how would this be implemented? Instead of deleting an article, it would simply be "moved" to a different namespace (leaving a redirect in the old spot)? A lot of times deletions are made to actually get rid of an article, and redirecting would mean the article would still appear to be a valid link (and in fact, would still take you to the deleted article), effectively not deleting it. Or would it be moved, and then delete the redirect? At which point... how would people find it? Unless they understand the "Delete" namespace, it seems like it'd be difficult to know that an article had a deletion discussion that would exist, and how to find it. Maybe I'm missing something obvious. --Steelviper 15:36, 6 March 2007 (CST)

My thought on this is very simple: we just archive the deletion discussions. Then, if someone brought up the issue, we could always recover the page in question. This is honestly my preference, given the reasons and issues you brought up. Having said that, I'll reiterate that my only concern is to archive the discussions, not the material that is discussed. (By the way, the people voting for Method 3 are voting only to archive the discussion itself on a namespace, not the actual article.) -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 18:19, 6 March 2007 (CST)

Gotcha. That's pretty straightforward. I'll go support. We may want to come up with a template for the discussion page that says, "This article (Foo) has been previously deleted. For a discussion of why it was deleted see: Delete Discussion Archives:Foo". I just got confused by the discussion, apparently. --Steelviper 07:47, 7 March 2007 (CST)

Do you mean {{deletetalk}}? BTW, if we're keeping these discussions, we should archive the articles themselves as well IMO. The discussion would make little sense if you can't see the page it applies to. --Catrope 09:31, 7 March 2007 (CST)

The articles are preserved, just not visible to the public. If you don't REALLY delete the article when you delete it, but actually preserve it, then there'd be no way to really delete anything. Presumably usable content would get relocated to other articles prior to deletion, so anything that remains in a deleted article really ought to stay "dead" unless there are serious changes in circumstances. --Steelviper 09:49, 7 March 2007 (CST)

I created another template {{undelete}}. Enjoy and criticize :P --Catrope 10:43, 7 March 2007 (CST)

Hangarbay

I created a "Deletions" namespace for testing. Catrope, you can test the templates over there also. Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 10:25, 7 March 2007 (CST)

Thanks, will do. Could you create a Deletions talk: mainspace there as well? --Catrope 11:18, 7 March 2007 (CST)

Yes. Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 11:43, 7 March 2007 (CST)

Alright, I've been playing around on the Hangarbay and produced a working example: (all links link to the Hangarbay)

An admin decides to delete Starbuck's Raider
Its talk page is moved to Deletions talk:Starbuck's Raider. It is tagged with the Deleted Discussion template, which automatically puts it into the Deleted Discussions category.
Talk:Starbuck's Raider is tagged with the Deletetalk template, which points visitors to Deletions talk:Starbuck's Raider.
Someone wants to review the original article because he can't make sense out of the discussion. He creates Deletions:Starbuck's Raider and tags it with the Undelete template, which automatically puts it into the Requests for undeletion category
An admin sees this, undeletes the article and moves it to Deletions:Starbuck's Raider, removing the request-for-undelete tag and tagging it with the Tempundelete template, which automatically puts it into the Temporarily undeleted pages category.
Someone wants to improve the article to the point of being acceptable. He creates Deletions:Starbuck's Raider/Improvement, copyedits the original article into it and starts improving it. The subpage is tagged with the Improvedundelete template, which automatically puts it into the Improvements to temporarily undeleted pages category. (NOTE: This is put in a subpage to preserve the original undeleted version.)
Hopefully, the improved version is good enough to be moved back to the main namespace. All of the pages created above will be deleted in that case.

Used templates:

Deleted discussion to tag the "Deletions talk:" page with.
Deletetalk to tag the late "Talk:" page with.
Undelete to request temporary undeletion
Tempundelete to tag temporarily undeleted pages with
Improvedundelete to tag improved versions with

Used categories:

Criticism is welcome! --Catrope 13:58, 7 March 2007 (CST)

That looks extremely complicated :o --Serenity 14:05, 7 March 2007 (CST)

If you take a closer look, you'll see half of the trajectory is only needed when a page's deletion is appealed to. For obvious deletions (like Starbuck's Raider), the trajectory ends after the third bullet point. --Catrope 14:20, 7 March 2007 (CST)

Yeah, I noticed that. Let's just hope that noone appeals to it ;) The first three steps look alright --Serenity 14:29, 7 March 2007 (CST)

@@ Line 62: / Line 62: @@
 :That looks extremely complicated :o --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:05, 7 March 2007 (CST)
 ::If you take a closer look, you'll see half of the trajectory is only needed when a page's deletion is appealed to. For obvious deletions (like Starbuck's Raider), the trajectory ends after the third bullet point. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 14:20, 7 March 2007 (CST)
+:::Yeah, I noticed that. Let's just hope that noone appeals to it ;) The first three steps look alright --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:29, 7 March 2007 (CST)