Podcast:The Dirteaters

"Podcast for "The Dirteaters" from Syfy.com" Podcast
[[File:{{{image}}}|200px|The Dirteaters]]
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Transcribed by:	Whisper & Gemini LLMs
Verified by:	Joe Beaudoin Jr. (WIP)
Length of Podcast:	41:42
Speaker(s)
Ronald D. Moore	Ronald D. Moore
	Terry Dresbach
	Tom Lieber
Sasha Roiz	Sasha Roiz
Esai Morales	Esai Morales
Magda Apanowicz	Magda Apanowicz
Comedy Elements
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In the official Syfy.com podcast for "The Dirteaters", Universal Cable Productions executive Tom Lieber is joined by actors Sasha Roiz (Sam Adama), Esai Morales (Joseph Adama), and Magda Apanowicz (Lacy Rand) to discuss the fifteenth episode of Caprica. They delve into the deep backstory of the Adama family, exploring the origins of the Ha'la'tha on Tauron and the childhood trauma that shaped the Adama brothers. The commentators share behind-the-scenes anecdotes about filming key sequences, including the emotional flashbacks and the intricate virtual reality scenes in New Cap City. The discussion also covers character motivations, the symbolism behind the Adama family traditions, and the collaborative process of developing the complex relationships within the show.

Tom Lieber: Okay, hello and welcome to the podcast for Caprica episode 115, which is called "The Dirteaters", although unofficially we call it Adamarama around the office.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah.

Tom Lieber: This is Tom Lieber, Director of Development and Current Series for Universal Cable Productions. I oversee Caprica for the studio, and I am here with the Adama brothers, who play Sam

Esai Morales: and Esai Morales, who plays Joseph Adama.

Tom Lieber: And Esai might lapse into Spanish halfway through this because...

Esai Morales: Si.

Magda Apanowicz: And Magda also is joining you guys just so that she can get on every special feature.

Tom Lieber: You realize there's no residuals on the podcast, right?

Magda Apanowicz: And I'm not even in this episode.

Tom Lieber: Magda's not in this episode?

Magda Apanowicz: No.

Tom Lieber: Magda's not even in this episode and she came to watch. Because she just wanted to see the episode. So basically where we're starting is what happened in the last episode is Lacy Rand was on Gemenon and she became a superstar of the STO. And Clarice Willow is really slipping into zealot land, and she was tricked into believing that Marbeth was the traitor in her house, when actually we all know it was Amanda Graystone, and Clarice killed Marbeth. And then we had a brief scene with the Adama brothers.

Magda Apanowicz: Did you spoil this?

Tom Lieber: No, they already saw it.

Magda Apanowicz: Oh.

Tom Lieber: And then we had a brief scene with the Adama brothers last week when Sam found out that Joseph knew that the Guatrau and Graystone Industries was slipping robots to Geminon when Sam has been wanting to slip them to Tauron to help their people's revolution. So there's a bit of a rift between the Adama brothers right now as we go into this episode.

Sasha Roiz: But not in real life.

Tom Lieber: In real life, they're sitting on each other's lap.

Sasha Roiz: Happy wherever we go. Whatever.

Tom Lieber: So here we go. We're starting with the title.

Sasha Roiz: No, not yet. We're getting right to it.

Tom Lieber: This is the teaser.

Sasha Roiz: Oh, interesting. The hood. So I remember this spot. I used to love hanging out. Goldie's a little neighborhood hangout.

Tom Lieber: I still love going there.

Sasha Roiz: yeah no they did such a great job we took over that whole corner and completely redid it and so much so that I remember one time we had this homeless lady come in and try to place a bet.

Tom Lieber: really?

Sasha Roiz: yeah she it was so real.

Tom Lieber: it's not in the nicest part of it.

Sasha Roiz: not it's probably in what would be first as the toilet of Vancouver.

Tom Lieber: yeah it's basically like L.A. Skid Row yeah is where that this Goldie's is in Vancouver.

Sasha Roiz: yeah yeah.

Tom Lieber: Sasha what you're on TV watch.

Magda Apanowicz: what?

Sasha Roiz: and and so yeah so it was a really fun spot to hang out in because it was so believable they did a great job our direction did a great job if I remember anybody's names I would certainly plug Doug McLean.

Tom Lieber: exactly Doug.

Sasha Roiz: yeah there's also Richard Hudolin and all the other all those people.

Esai Morales: and Joao.

Sasha Roiz: Wow props props to props.

Tom Lieber: look at those props well And don't forget Rebecca, who did all your tattoos.

Sasha Roiz: Absolutely. Two and a half hours almost every other day.

Magda Apanowicz: She just put extra time into it because she wanted to spend time with you.

Sasha Roiz: Dana. Did Rebecca have a crush on Sasha?

Esai Morales: No. Don't spread rumors.

Tom Lieber: No, I'm just kidding.

Sasha Roiz: Although I was crushing all over her.

Esai Morales: She's crushable.

Tom Lieber: She's adorable.

Sasha Roiz: No, they're all lovely. Everybody was absolutely fantastic. Can I just say I love him.

Esai Morales: Jorge.

Sasha Roiz: Jorge Montesi, the guacharao. Loved working with him. He's such a talented, talented man. Such gravitas.

Esai Morales: Incredible. And a rumbling voice.

Tom Lieber: And he basically was the Quattrap.

Sasha Roiz: He was.

Tom Lieber: I feared him even as an actor. I was like, I hope this guy isn't coming.

Sasha Roiz: But he was an incredibly prolific director.

Tom Lieber: Yes.

Sasha Roiz: He's got a massive amount of experience as a director. He's been a director for many, many, many years. Most of his life.

Tom Lieber: Hundreds of hours of television.

Sasha Roiz: And he retired as a director and he just was the actor.

Magda Apanowicz: Oh, my gosh, really?

Sasha Roiz: Yeah, yeah.

Tom Lieber: But I loved working with him.

Esai Morales: It's usually the other way around.

Tom Lieber: Yeah. I loved working with him. He was very, very good. And like you said, gravitas.

Sasha Roiz: I'm so happy.

Tom Lieber: So remind us what's happening here.

Sasha Roiz: Sam is getting a promotion, and so is Joseph.

Tom Lieber: Yeah. What did they do to earn it?

Sasha Roiz: Did not screw up.

Esai Morales: I've been honest. I've been loyal, basically.

Tom Lieber: You handled the whole Greystone.

Sasha Roiz: Oh, that's right. Yeah.

Tom Lieber: And here we are back on Tauron, you know, 30 years ago. This is Aleks Paunovic, who plays William Adama, the original.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah. First William Adama.

Tom Lieber: So Bill Adama from Battlestar's grandfather. And this is young Esai, young Joseph that he's speaking with?

Esai Morales: Yeah. That's why I was taller than you, Sasha.

Tom Lieber: Yeah. Well, these kids... In a few minutes. When we saw... You know, Matt Roberts wrote this script.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah, he did a great job.

Tom Lieber: It's a great, great script. And when we saw it, you know, it's always nerve-wracking when you give children big parts to play because you don't really know what you're getting with kid actors. We found these kids that so channeled both Sasha and Esai that this young Sam is so... He just is so Sasha in that, you know, he's kind of brooding and he's very emotional and, yeah, you can tell that he's wearing his heart and his sleeve in a big way. And then the young Joseph...

Sasha Roiz: The politician.

Tom Lieber: He's so thoughtful and so quiet and so playing it close to the vest. Both really, really beautiful kids. Great, great kids.

Sasha Roiz: Gorgeous kids. Great kids. And funny enough, the young Sam, his real name is Alex, if I'm not mistaken. And Aleks Paunovic plays the grandfather, or the father in this case. My name is Alex, too. A little nerd fact, all three Alex's playing...

Tom Lieber: Sasha. Your real name is Alex?

Sasha Roiz: My legal birth name is Alexander.

Tom Lieber: Did you make Sasha?

Sasha Roiz: Sasha is, in Slavic languages, is a diminutive for Alexander. Kind of like Bill for William.

Tom Lieber: Wow.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah. Fun fact. But don't you dare call me Alex.

Esai Morales: I think I might say.

Sasha Roiz: Alex, alley boy.

Tom Lieber: So three Alex's right there.

Sasha Roiz: And it's also fun to have Aleks Paunovic. He's actually taller than I am.

Tom Lieber: He's gigantic.

Sasha Roiz: Big lad.

Tom Lieber: 6'5 or something?

Sasha Roiz: I think he's taller than 6'. I think he might be 6'5, 6'6. So, you know, for anyone who... Yeah, this is definitely believable as my dad.

Tom Lieber: Yeah. And in real life, he's best friends with Tom O'Pennikin from Battlestar.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah, they're lovers, I believe.

Tom Lieber: They are. I'm not spreading rumors. Basically, when I was with you and Tomo and Alex, I felt like the shortest person.

Sasha Roiz: Oh, yeah, yeah. When the three of us were together, there was a lot of big boys.

Tom Lieber: I think so.

Sasha Roiz: We ordered sushi for Esai.

Esai Morales: Oh, Esai's so hungry.

Magda Apanowicz: Ooh, is there something for me, too?

Tom Lieber: Yeah. Yeah. And the interesting thing about the parental dynamic here is that Sam takes after his mom because the mom is impulsive and rash, and William takes after their dad in terms of personality, but physically Sam very much takes after his dad and Joseph takes

Sasha Roiz: Oh, here's the sushi.

Tom Lieber: Things are looking up.

Sasha Roiz: Sushi hip.

Tom Lieber: Just as he's talking about a suicide pill. We're going to have a little how should I say, interfere thing. But we didn't really see a lot of the exterior, right?

Sasha Roiz: We see a little bit of the exterior when the kids go out into the street to steal the gun.

Tom Lieber: Because I'm looking forward to hopefully in the season 2 that we'll get to see some of Tauron proper.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah. I mean, we saw... The only time we ever really saw Tauron proper...

Tom Lieber: Oh, my gosh. Unwrap that fast. Unwrap that fast. Just get it over with. We'll rip the bandit off. So annoying.

Sasha Roiz: That's the end of the act. It's so annoying to lose.

Tom Lieber: The only time we actually saw Tauron proper on Battlestar was in a flashback of Razor.

Sasha Roiz: No, in Battlestar. And in Virgis as well, there was a moment of Tauron City.

Tom Lieber: Yeah, sure, right. But on Battlestar, Admiral Cain was from Tauron. But that's sort of agrarian society, that sort of rough land that they talk about. It'd be interesting to see that.

Sasha Roiz: Totally.

Tom Lieber: And I think you said in the pilot that there are no flowers on Tauron.

Esai Morales: Right. It's all... It's all just... It's all preemptive. There's nothing... There's no room for beauty there.

Sasha Roiz: Oh, yeah. It's, you know... They don't need beauty to replicate, I guess. The bees know what to do.

Esai Morales: see flowers get their beauty to attract bees mmm so that these prominent I read that in the book.

Tom Lieber: did you really?

Esai Morales: call the botany of desire by Michael Pollan free plug incredible book.

Tom Lieber: here we go back so we're seeing not not number not was of course our cinematographer or PP I just worked with him recently.

Sasha Roiz: did you yeah okay oh he's a super talent guy great guy so such a character he named the bar are McNuts.

Tom Lieber: Are they? Yeah, that's the name of the bar.

Sasha Roiz: Oh, my gosh.

Tom Lieber: We haven't seen Alessandra in, I think, two episodes. So this is the first time we kind of see that Zoe and Tamara have really teamed up.

Sasha Roiz: They make a good team.

Tom Lieber: Oh, you look so cute there.

Sasha Roiz: Stop order.

Tom Lieber: Let me get it. Yeah, tuna.

Sasha Roiz: guys are quick.

Tom Lieber: I love that that that no one believes that she is.

Sasha Roiz: yeah Nestor thinks she's just someone wearing a Zoe Greystone avatar.

Tom Lieber: the one person who probably knew Zoe because you know Zoe was his wife's student.

Sasha Roiz: what is Nestor doing?

Tom Lieber: they're saying it's not going to end well. Nestor and Olaf are just playing New Cap City and then happened to run into these two characters. When they're not being STO terrorists, they like to relax.

Sasha Roiz: And Clarice has been so desperately hunting for Zoe. That's why this scene is such an absurdist humor to it. When Clarice kind of says there's no use in playing video games when in fact they just achieved what she's been looking for for 15 episodes. But nobody even knows it.

Tom Lieber: That's like your kid. You've been trying to get off of video games for years. And all of a sudden gets a job as a video game tester. For like $100,000 a year.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah. So do they realize what they just saw?

Tom Lieber: They have no idea. Not yet, no.

Sasha Roiz: Wait, why am I?

Tom Lieber: Oh, no. They always have the same credits? I just thought, okay.

Magda Apanowicz: You're on our show.

Tom Lieber: Am I? I didn't know.

Sasha Roiz: You wouldn't notice.

Tom Lieber: That hurts.

Sasha Roiz: No, but you acted like you're not on the show. Of course you're on this show.

Magda Apanowicz: I just, I thought it was, I didn't know they had the same credits every episode.

Sasha Roiz: Clarice was turning so badass in the last few episodes I remember just feeling kind of jealous.

Tom Lieber: Oh, she was really badass.

Sasha Roiz: No, no, but I was like, come on. I'm supposed to be the bad guy here.

Tom Lieber: Who could kill better? Sam or Clarice?

Sasha Roiz: Yeah, them in a battle? That'd be good. I don't know.

Tom Lieber: And it'd be hot.

Sasha Roiz: I mean, if it was a, if it was a... You're always gonna lose in a battle against a dame.

Tom Lieber: Probably. Especially a psychotic dame.

Sasha Roiz: A grand, um... If it was like a set-up, staged battle, then you would win. But if it was like a plotty, you know, manipulative. Under, like, backstabbing.

Tom Lieber: Oh, no. I can't.

Sasha Roiz: Are you guys boxing again?

Tom Lieber: I like the boxing scene.

Sasha Roiz: Not again. That was it.

Tom Lieber: What do you mean? Didn't we see that once in the early episodes?

Sasha Roiz: You did.

Tom Lieber: This was the only one?

Sasha Roiz: We've seen Daniel boxing before.

Tom Lieber: Oh, that's true. This is the person who's boxing Joseph. And remember the way this scene is written. Joseph is really trying to warn Daniel. that the watcher was going to kill him. But of course, Joseph can't overtly tell him that.

Sasha Roiz: So this was all green screen, right?

Tom Lieber: Is it really? It looks great.

Sasha Roiz: Actually, I think the last time he was boxing, he came out in the alley and you kicked his ass.

Tom Lieber: Oh, yeah, yeah. That's when we sort of intercepted him, yeah.

Sasha Roiz: This is good.

Tom Lieber: Teach him a lesson, Joseph. Teach him a lesson.

Sasha Roiz: You're a good boxer. Do you box?

Esai Morales: I like it.

Tom Lieber: Did you guys get hurt?

Esai Morales: Well, actually, I unintentionally clipped him.

Sasha Roiz: Unintentionally.

Esai Morales: Unintentionally, of course.

Tom Lieber: Come on.

Esai Morales: But he wasn't horrible. I mean, he just was like, okay. He took it.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah. That was one of the time.

Tom Lieber: No, no. It was an early one, but, you know, he's a consummate professional.

Sasha Roiz: Michael Taylor.

Tom Lieber: Shout out.

Sasha Roiz: I love this. I love Surge, kind of going through the history of Tauron and the Ha'la'tha.

Tom Lieber: It's like vocal internet.

Sasha Roiz: Google Surge.

Tom Lieber: Ooh, Chinchins.

Sasha Roiz: That's not really Chinchins, but...

Tom Lieber: Whenever the fireplace is on the Greystone Mansion, I get jealous I don't live there.

Magda Apanowicz: It looks so warm.

Tom Lieber: What's that?

Magda Apanowicz: I love when they put the fireplace on the Greystone Mansion.

Tom Lieber: Oh, it feels like home.

Sasha Roiz: On Caprica, that's Italian food.

Tom Lieber: Oh, was it Italian food?

Sasha Roiz: I don't know. I was so off.

Tom Lieber: Oh, my gosh, no. Is he supposed to be like Al Capone?

Sasha Roiz: Yeah, I think, you know, Joseph's doing, I mean, Daniel's doing his research on the Ha'la'tha. Wow.

Tom Lieber: There's Matthew Roberts, our writer.

Sasha Roiz: There's a special tune in the handrail here.

Tom Lieber: Oh, thank you. Yeah, Matthew Roberts is our staff writer. He's our lowest level writer, and he is one of our favorite people ever.

Magda Apanowicz: That's weird.

Sasha Roiz: Well, he's high in my books.

Magda Apanowicz: Are you a writer on the staff?

Sasha Roiz: Yes.

Tom Lieber: Did you not know? She's the lowest, lowest.

Sasha Roiz: And John Dahl directed this episode.

Tom Lieber: Yeah, John Dahl, who... He also did 13, your other big episodes this season.

Sasha Roiz: Sure, he did all the Adama-related storylines.

Tom Lieber: Great.

Sasha Roiz: John Dahl's really fun to work with.

Tom Lieber: Tall guy.

Sasha Roiz: And that's the end of the act.

Tom Lieber: Did we just find out he was about to die?

Sasha Roiz: Yeah. No. All his predecessors are basically... Everyone that Guat Rao has ever taken over the company.

Tom Lieber: Absolutely.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah, things aren't looking good.

Esai Morales: I love the fact that we came into this episode and we really got a chance to investigate Tauron and our family and our family history and really establish that. You know, like finally set up a really strong foundation for that background.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah.

Tom Lieber: Settle the score.

Sasha Roiz: Oh, it's her.

Tom Lieber: Yeah, Sasha Patel.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah. She was on Battlestar?

Tom Lieber: PSG. Yeah.

Sasha Roiz: Her name's Sasha, too.

Tom Lieber: Oh, yeah, and the Avenging Angels, these T-shirts.

Sasha Roiz: Oh, yeah, yeah, those T-shirts are great.

Tom Lieber: Actually, you still want one.

Magda Apanowicz: Do you still have these?

Tom Lieber: These T-shirts are available in the NBC online store. You could buy your own Avenging Angels T-shirt.

Sasha Roiz: Wow. I didn't realize we had those.

Tom Lieber: I love them.

Sasha Roiz: As of tonight, the night that this episode airs, I haven't had one.

Tom Lieber: I haven't had one.

Sasha Roiz: The episode is on.

Esai Morales: I did not have any of the red tuna, by the way.

Sasha Roiz: My brothers were already arguing over the food.

Esai Morales: No, but... You had your own plate all for yourself.

Sasha Roiz: Whatever, man. We ordered the party platter of sushi, and it's already on.

Esai Morales: I didn't horn in on your plate.

Tom Lieber: All right, so here we go. Here's young Sam looking out the window.

Sasha Roiz: Just so everyone knows, Sasha is very large, and his appetite is equally large.

Tom Lieber: He can have another super platter.

Sasha Roiz: So here we see some... These would be what? This would be like part of the... Oh, yeah, yeah, okay. Some of the Tauron rebels that basically are kind of the contingent that we're a part of.

Tom Lieber: The resistance.

Sasha Roiz: The resistance. The dirty doors.

Tom Lieber: The dirty doors are the rebels.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah. They just kind of... With the agrarians. They just killed one of the guards, one of the sort of militia. And, of course, young Sam is far too curious to let it go.

Magda Apanowicz: What are you trying to find?

Sasha Roiz: Weapons. Whatever I can get. Money. ID. Money. Weapons.

Tom Lieber: What a little punk.

Sasha Roiz: And young Joseph is cautious and smart.

Tom Lieber: Yeah, but your character looks awfully comfortable with a dead body.

Sasha Roiz: Foreshadowing.

Tom Lieber: I love this kid.

Sasha Roiz: Tough little guy. Already had little brother.

Tom Lieber: A big brother.

Sasha Roiz: yeah so we didn't get a chance to work with them but yeah oh my god oh yes this scene with eric this was a lot of fun it was fun to watch him coming into sam's element yeah completely out of place well in his you know very upper class you know but he's you know completely of course unsettled here. This was not his environment.

Tom Lieber: Wasn't this the scene that was rewritten a few times? Because you were having difficulties believing why Sam would help him?

Sasha Roiz: Yep, remember? You had a big to do with this.

Tom Lieber: She's right.

Sasha Roiz: It was about the motivation for Sam and Joseph to form this alliance.

Tom Lieber: Yeah, it didn't feel real to you at first. You were like, something's wrong.

Sasha Roiz: I remember you pitched the pitch.

Tom Lieber: Really? You know what else? How quickly I forget. I'm always like, everything was perfect. And we had such a great time.

Sasha Roiz: So you ended up liking it? No, we got there. We definitely got there.

Tom Lieber: Oh, yeah. I love this scene. It's a really great scene.

Sasha Roiz: You know, he's got to come in some ways groveling to me because his life's at stake. And he knows what buttons to push. And, you know, it was like a chess game. It was really, really fun. We both know exactly what we need from one another. And it's all about, you know, a little bit of a power struggle.

Tom Lieber: What do you need from him?

Sasha Roiz: If I remember correctly, I just need access to those Cylons because my main objective is to help people back on Tauron. So he's pushing, of course, emotional buttons.

Tom Lieber: Ooh, did he just say Tauron?

Sasha Roiz: And ironically, Eric had to say the biggest speech in Tauron from all of us. I don't think anyone has had to say that much in one mouthful. It was really impressive. He did it well.

Tom Lieber: He did it very well.

Sasha Roiz: I love the way they like the scene, by the way. I love the way McNutt lit the scene. It's always so dark and just drowning in shadows and reds.

Tom Lieber: Well, it's very... The Tauron world is so rich.

Sasha Roiz: It's the earthy look. Very Godfather-y.

Tom Lieber: Very. And then Bear puts the Tauron-sounding instruments in, and it's a really rich tapestry.

Sasha Roiz: This was a lot of fun for me, because Eric and I hadn't had a chance to work really prior to that. So it was really...

Tom Lieber: You just beat the **** out of normally.

Sasha Roiz: Normally, I'm too busy.

Tom Lieber: He's too busy.

Sasha Roiz: You talk? Yeah, exactly. It was fun.

Tom Lieber: They say Tauron speak with their hands.

Sasha Roiz: There you go. Yes, you mentioned.

Tom Lieber: There you go. You did mention, yeah. And here we go again.

Sasha Roiz: No, it was a lot of fun.

Tom Lieber: No, to audience, Sasha has got Eric by his collar.

Sasha Roiz: Is that what they say? Tauron speak with their hands?

Tom Lieber: Well, like Italians.

Sasha Roiz: Like Italians speak with their hands, yeah.

Tom Lieber: Oh, that's what I was wondering.

Sasha Roiz: Tauron does a similar kind of thing.

Esai Morales: I like to speak with my feet.

Sasha Roiz: The Sashiro speaks with his fists.

Tom Lieber: Yeah, he does.

Sasha Roiz: I never noticed this before, but there are Tauron tattoo symbols on the wall.

Tom Lieber: Oh, yeah, yeah. He makes mention of them as he walks in.

Sasha Roiz: That's a fun scene. They really let us play it out. It's a very long one.

Tom Lieber: You kind of look short in this scene.

Sasha Roiz: One plane short.

Tom Lieber: Are you playing short?

Sasha Roiz: The Mackie short. He's an amazing actor.

Tom Lieber: He's actually on his knees.

Sasha Roiz: Literally, I can literally reduce myself. I willed it to him.

Tom Lieber: He just slunched it.

Sasha Roiz: But he gets what he wants, and I get what I want. But it's... Those are great scenes.

Tom Lieber: And this was a good insert, because I remember being very concerned that that bandage on my hand...

Sasha Roiz: Yeah, we talked about it. Which, you know, I continue to wear throughout a number of episodes, all the way through the end, really. I didn't want it to look like an injury. It's actually the tattoo of my...

Tom Lieber: Promotion.

Sasha Roiz: Well, no, the promotion. Yeah. Yeah, so it was on my hand.

Tom Lieber: Yeah, when you remember you you you talked to me out that we're up there and I thought it was a great note.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah, so we did we I don't think it was made clear so now it is.

Tom Lieber: And there's of course the lighter that Joseph will give to Willie and really will give to Lee on Battlestar.

Sasha Roiz: That was your new tattoo. Yeah, that's the new tattoo.

Tom Lieber: No, the one on the right arm is you that one was from the the... The funeral right the journey.

Sasha Roiz: That looks like one of the... Yeah.

Tom Lieber: Yeah, that's Terrell Rotherley, right? That's her name? Terrell Rotherley, wonderful actress.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah, she is.

Magda Apanowicz: I worked with her on Carl X Y.

Tom Lieber: Oh, did you really?

Magda Apanowicz: Yeah.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah. And she's on Hellcats, too, now.

Tom Lieber: Is she?

Sasha Roiz: Yeah, she works nonstop in Vancouver.

Tom Lieber: Good for her. She's really good on Hellcats. Hellcats, of course, being Kevin Murphy. Showrunners. It's his new show.

Sasha Roiz: You worked with her a lot.

Esai Morales: You worked with her a lot.

Sasha Roiz: Oh, yeah. Loved every scene. She's just a real great gal, you know. She's a good sport, very professional, and doesn't take herself too seriously, which is always refreshing.

Tom Lieber: I loved how she fit into the family dynamic. She instantly felt like family, like she belonged there.

Sasha Roiz: They look great together.

Tom Lieber: And the other thing that's great is that Sadi likes her. That's kind of the key to the Adama family. Sadi likes her.

Sasha Roiz: I think it was in the first half of the season when Sadi basically says, I'm going to take Willie to my sister so you guys can be alone.

Tom Lieber: Yeah. No, no, no. Let me see this now. There's some lovemaking kind of thing, I guess.

Sasha Roiz: That's a nice cigarette. Is there like gold trimming around that?

Tom Lieber: I have no idea. But those cigarettes are never really cigarettes, right? They're like some weird clove things.

Sasha Roiz: They're some herbal cigarettes, which make me so nauseous I can't tell you.

Tom Lieber: You're not supposed to inhale them.

Sasha Roiz: Oh, no. Cloves. You're not supposed to [inhale] cloves.

Tom Lieber: well you're supposed to inhale these particular cigarettes but it's uh it's nauseating and even the crew couldn't stand it because especially at goldie's the place would be full all the extras would be smoking uh the same cigarettes and the place would just reek and uh i never knew lettuce could be so bad i know i would sooner smoke the real thing yeah there was a scene we had to smoke weed but it's because of laws because of legalities yeah and it was like the most nauseating thing purple it was supposed to be purple no i don't think it's all right so oh so here we go they're about to get invaded here no what do you get listening into us now what are they going are they watching the show real time or something this girl is so scary she's so scary I remember watching this once with you this is she's so scary and you think nothing of it at first because she's such a little thing compared to Alex but she's so sinister yeah I mean it's really supposed to be any kind of repressed group and not yeah but it's it's I think it's just you know any sort of fascist society or you know they come start clamping down on minorities and she's the young kind of hotter version of the inglorious bastards yeah yeah but yeah there's definitely a Nazi element yeah well and then the outfits become very fascist.

Sasha Roiz: I think that Republican candidate, Rich Ayotte, is...

Tom Lieber: Uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh. Don't bring politics. Real life doesn't go on.

Sasha Roiz: You know the guy, right? The Republican guy that's dressing up as a Nazi.

Tom Lieber: Explain that one.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tom Lieber: Oh! This is not the man law. Yeah, no, all we've known up until this point is that the Adama brothers are orphans and that they came to Caprica very young as orphans. And so... Oh, my God, he just got the gun. Sorry. Oh, boy. That's the end of the act.

Sasha Roiz: Here we go.

Tom Lieber: We're back. Here comes Amanda. Amanda, call my aunt. And Paula had a very big episode last week, so she's not in this one very much. But she's just continuing her espionage now that Agent Duram got her all the tech so that she can spy on everybody. She's doing what she can to try to bring Clarice down.

Sasha Roiz: Oh, is that the little Manny cam?

Tom Lieber: Yeah. A Clarice cam.

Sasha Roiz: More like Fanny cam, fanatic.

Tom Lieber: She's still limping. She still has her limp from her jump off the bridge.

Sasha Roiz: It's a massive bridge if anyone's been to Vancouver.

Tom Lieber: Did it ever show you?

Sasha Roiz: The Barard Street Bridge, right?

Tom Lieber: Yeah. did I show you how she learned in my now you see in the hospital it was that I'm sister police help Fisher out no letters yeah I love these two actors we are having that I mark and since he's me wonderful his cousin system

Sasha Roiz: Now what's going on here? It's been a while since I've seen that.

Tom Lieber: Oh, so in the last episode, Agent Duram slipped seeing false information.

Sasha Roiz: Oh, yes.

Tom Lieber: And so now Singh is trying to cover his ass knowing that Agent Duram has outed him.

Sasha Roiz: I mean, it's been so long. We wrapped one in January?

Tom Lieber: Yeah. We shot this episode last November. Yeah, I mean, it's almost a year now. It's hard to remember since then.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah.

Tom Lieber: But um, so now Singh is uh, is covering his ass to protect himself. This guy's IA, Internal Affairs.

Sasha Roiz: Ooh.

Tom Lieber: Who plays Sing Again? What's the name of the actor?

Sasha Roiz: Peter. Peter Wingfield. Yeah, wonderful guy.

Tom Lieber: Yeah, we got really lucky. I mean, just everybody who came on was super talented.

Sasha Roiz: And it's hard when, you know, you work in Vancouver, You assume you have a deep talent pool, but there are so many other shows there and films.

Tom Lieber: Yeah, I mean, a lot of actors would come up from the States, and occasionally we'd get lucky and we'd use some really good local talent as well.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah. So yeah, he's basically taking footage out of context and indicting him with it.

Tom Lieber: He dropped the F-bomb.

Sasha Roiz: He did.

Tom Lieber: Did he?

Sasha Roiz: Yeah, he's a practice.

Tom Lieber: He just got burned.

Sasha Roiz: Oh, man.

Tom Lieber: That sucks.

Sasha Roiz: Boo. He's a great villain.

Tom Lieber: He is.

Sasha Roiz: So. This.

Tom Lieber: Oh, yeah, that's the girl answering the phone. I forget her name [Nicola Anderson]. I'm so sorry.

Sasha Roiz: She's a reader. She's one of our readers.

Tom Lieber: Every week we would come into the office and we would read the next episode. We would have a read-through, and she was one of our readers.

Sasha Roiz: He's in this one too, I think.

Tom Lieber: Is he in this one? Or the next one?

Sasha Roiz: Yes, we had one girl reader, one guy reader. They're both great. I apologize. I can't remember their names right now. And the guy [William C. Vaughn] was also, I believe, in this episode. He shows up later on as a fan wearing one of those Avenging Angels t-shirts.

Tom Lieber: It's either this one or the next one. But I remember there was a scene in there. I don't know if it made the cut, but when she asked for a name, Paula says Sybil Cassiopeia.

Sasha Roiz: Oh, yeah? And remember the table read, she just killed that and couldn't stop laughing.

Tom Lieber: She said the funniest name. Yeah.

Sasha Roiz: Oh, you know what? They used the footage from the pilot.

Tom Lieber: Oh, really? I didn't remember. I never did a scene outside of Jaggers.

Sasha Roiz: Oh, really? Yeah.

Tom Lieber: Oh. That was a transition to put us into memory. Oh, gosh. Yeah, and so now, again, the boys are watching their father get tortured.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah.

Tom Lieber: And during that table read, actually, Sasha, I don't know if you remember this, but we didn't cast the parents yet. So I played, you remember I played William Adama?

Sasha Roiz: Did you?

Tom Lieber: And Paula played your mom. But you guys still played the kids. So it was so weird. It was like me and Paula were your parents.

Sasha Roiz: Sounds a lot. Kind of like that anyway. Yeah. A little bit.

Tom Lieber: A little bit. I think you played Sister Clarice in this one.

Sasha Roiz: Oh, yes, at one point.

Tom Lieber: Esai has a really, really creepy Polly Walker impression that will make you feel uncomfortable.

Sasha Roiz: "Apotheosis."

Tom Lieber: Apotheosis.

Sasha Roiz: There's no getting away. That's creepy in your face when you do that.

Tom Lieber: Not as creepy as our parents getting tortured to death.

Sasha Roiz: True.

Tom Lieber: Oh, that's horrible. Like that segue?

Sasha Roiz: Yeah, that was very smooth. I brought it back to the show.

Tom Lieber: Alex is great in this.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah, very, very intense. I mean, this is... I'm surprised that chair did not dissent.

Tom Lieber: It's as hard a performance as you're ever going to need to pull off. And certainly this is a terrible experience any kid would have to experience. And so you can understand why they end up who they are. And also their bond.

Sasha Roiz: That's what I love. This episode kind of solidifies why they are so close. They went through this together.

Tom Lieber: What is her name?

Sasha Roiz: I don't know.

Tom Lieber: She's great.

Sasha Roiz: Super biach.

Tom Lieber: Really great.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah. Super biach.

Tom Lieber: Super biach.

Sasha Roiz: She's terrifying. Yeah. And she's beautiful. That's almost what makes it so scary. Is that you're not expecting that kind of evil from her.

Tom Lieber: She should be Polly's cohort.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah. One of her wives.

Tom Lieber: Yeah. Speak of the devil.

Sasha Roiz: Oh, that is so beautiful.

Tom Lieber: Oh, this is our reader. He's in this scene.

Sasha Roiz: Oh, yeah. This is our male reader. There he is.

Tom Lieber: I actually really do want that t-shirt.

Sasha Roiz: I like it a lot.

Tom Lieber: Go to NBCStore.com and you can own your own Avenging Angels t-shirt.

Sasha Roiz: Tom, yes. 20% commission on every sale.

Tom Lieber: Well, there he is. They see STO t-shirt.

Sasha Roiz: Join the STO.

Magda Apanowicz: With your face.

Sasha Roiz: Here's my face.

Tom Lieber: After four seasons.

Sasha Roiz: Thanks. Thanks, you said.

Tom Lieber: No, I'm just hoping he's going to read it. He's really good, too, the reader. He did a nice job.

Sasha Roiz: Oh, he's so great. They're both very talented.

Tom Lieber: And this is great because he's really the only person when Sam actually Mm-hmm. I'm the only people who know the truth that they're both out there because Joseph still thinks that Tamara dies.

Sasha Roiz: It's true.

Tom Lieber: That's a fun look.

Sasha Roiz: Looks like it's straight out of Boardwalk Empire.

Tom Lieber: Yeah. That's his first time he's seen her, right?

Sasha Roiz: In a long time.

Tom Lieber: In a long time. That's funny. He just zips out.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah.

Tom Lieber: Again, all CGI here.

Sasha Roiz: That's so cool.

Tom Lieber: The only thing that's real is that one corner that they're standing on.

Sasha Roiz: Really?

Tom Lieber: Even that other corner is big?

Sasha Roiz: Oh, they're standing on.

Tom Lieber: Yeah, I think it's a green pedestal, basically. And if the other corners are real, they're just covering green felt.

Sasha Roiz: That's what it felt like.

Tom Lieber: Unbelievable what they could do.

Sasha Roiz: They did such a great job.

Tom Lieber: T-Bar.

Sasha Roiz: It says T-Bar.

Tom Lieber: This is our first time watching it.

Sasha Roiz: This is the first time I've seen this.

Tom Lieber: Yeah, it's so difficult to comment on everything because it's the first time I see it. So I need to tune in a little bit.

Sasha Roiz: I remember reading this.

Tom Lieber: You know how to read?

Sasha Roiz: I just learned. A couple years ago.

Tom Lieber: Oh, wow. Here we go.

Sasha Roiz: Will you teach me?

Tom Lieber: That's against the law.

Sasha Roiz: Okay.

Tom Lieber: Oh, the G just fell.

Sasha Roiz: Oh, the G.

Tom Lieber: What's going on?

Sasha Roiz: They're turning New Cap City into their private...

Tom Lieber: That's very deception.

Sasha Roiz: Are they? Elysium. Yeah, they're doing it.

Tom Lieber: They're tearing the whole thing apart.

Sasha Roiz: They're tearing it apart. That's amazing. They're using their powers to make New Cap City go away.

Tom Lieber: Oh, I love that. Oh, they're creating it into their fantasy. Yeah. So that Daniel can't find them.

Sasha Roiz: Is that the Wall of China?

Tom Lieber: That's perfect. Pretty much. That's the end of the act.

Sasha Roiz: See, we came out ahead of all that stuff.

Tom Lieber: We did.

Sasha Roiz: We did. They held our episodes back three years.

Tom Lieber: Head of Avatar?

Sasha Roiz: Yeah, we were.

Tom Lieber: Avatar came out first.

Sasha Roiz: I mean, I guess they started working on Avatar in 1975.

Tom Lieber: Yeah, but they totally ripped off Ron.

Sasha Roiz: Scott looks adorable.

Tom Lieber: I think I have a little crush on him.

Magda Apanowicz: You think?

Tom Lieber: I think you had a little crush on him.

Sasha Roiz: We all went to dinner. You were like...

Tom Lieber: I don't crush on boys very often.

Sasha Roiz: It's okay. He's a good cat. Scott Porter, very good actor.

Tom Lieber: He is a very good actor.

Sasha Roiz: I remember during that dinner, he kept telling us about his beatbox. Yeah. Remember he was doing a mouth beatbox thing?

Tom Lieber: What dinner was this? Why wasn't I invited?

Sasha Roiz: You weren't in town. Or you were too busy.

Tom Lieber: Michael Taylor was there.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah. You're probably on that karaoke tour. You're doing the West Coast karaoke tour.

Tom Lieber: And his wife.

Sasha Roiz: Oh, right. She was working in town, too.

Tom Lieber: Here we go.

Sasha Roiz: Shipping out the Cylons.

Magda Apanowicz: Shattered?

Tom Lieber: Yeah. That's got to be heavy.

Esai Morales: Oh, yeah. It's got to be like a ton.

Sasha Roiz: I love how I get Willie as my little partner.

Tom Lieber: Willie loves this stuff.

Sasha Roiz: Willie loves to play games.

Tom Lieber: It's great.

Sasha Roiz: I miss having him around. You know, it's just so much fun to corrupt.

Tom Lieber: I know.

Sasha Roiz: He's probably 35 now. And 6'1".

Tom Lieber: Yeah, but he's a sweet kid. He's at that age where, like, in a week, he grew, like, 4 inches.

Sasha Roiz: And a mustache.

Tom Lieber: And a mustache, yeah.

Sasha Roiz: I'm still waiting for that age.

Tom Lieber: I want to watch this. It's my son lying to me.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah. What? He kind of looks like you.

Tom Lieber: But it's that kind of relationship that only an uncle, a nephew, older brother younger brother can have you guys are conspiring together against dad mm-hmm you guys are brilliant in the scene that's just because we're here yeah that's true no he doesn't say this kind of thing oh stop it this was a heavy scene i remember this one this was a sort of like emotional arc, like the peak.

Sasha Roiz: You guys were really well together.

Tom Lieber: No, I remember there was, I don't know if we used that thing or not. There was a take where I was, well, yeah, I was in tears.

Sasha Roiz: We go there and then they use the least teary one.

Tom Lieber: I know, I'm not sure we used it. I don't think we used the most teary one. I think what we found in this scene, and this was something you were saying in the script stage, is that the less Sam says here, the more he says.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah, I was doing that thing that actors never do, which is I was begging them to cut my lines.

Tom Lieber: I know the feeling.

Sasha Roiz: Because I just felt like there's more that could be said without words. Because they know what happened between them, and the audience is about to know what happened.

Tom Lieber: I always get worried when there's too much exposition.

Sasha Roiz: They're doing our dad like that.

Tom Lieber: Because I think it's... That part kills me. The crowbar in the kneecap.

Sasha Roiz: This is rough stuff, man.

Tom Lieber: Wow, good thing we're on cable.

Sasha Roiz: This is before 24.

Tom Lieber: Come on, Sam.

Sasha Roiz: Pull the trigger. Kill them.

Tom Lieber: There's three of them. There's three of them. There's three of them.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah. It was still Samuel at this point.

Tom Lieber: Samuel. Yeah. Samuel.

Sasha Roiz: Wow.

Tom Lieber: There we go.

Sasha Roiz: Oh, my God.

Tom Lieber: Did you just put it on?

Sasha Roiz: Yes. Yeah. Guess who did it?

Tom Lieber: But it wasn't Sam who did it. Guess who's got a little bit.

Sasha Roiz: Wow. You're a good shot.

Tom Lieber: Tell me about it.

Sasha Roiz: First time with a gun?

Tom Lieber: Listen, that's my dad.

Sasha Roiz: Our dad.

Tom Lieber: That's our dad, man.

Sasha Roiz: He's so Joseph. That little kid.

Tom Lieber: Freaky.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah.

Tom Lieber: This was a tough, tough scene for young kids to play.

Sasha Roiz: I'm very surprised that we were able to get such great little kids.

Tom Lieber: Were they real brothers?

Sasha Roiz: No.

Tom Lieber: But it's rough stuff for young actors to do.

Sasha Roiz: This is hard for me to watch.

Tom Lieber: He can't run, so he needs to send him to the soil. Because that's what the Taurons want. We set this up earlier in the episode. There's a pride and honor.

Sasha Roiz: You want to be killed by one you love.

Tom Lieber: Or you want to be killed under your own... Under your own terms.

Sasha Roiz: Under your own terms.

Tom Lieber: Because he couldn't walk.

Sasha Roiz: His father begged him to.

Tom Lieber: His father begged him to. So he could die with honor.

Sasha Roiz: We come back to this. I think you even saw that in 113 where I was like carjacked by the opposing gang. It was so insulting to me that I asked them to kill me.

Tom Lieber: Because it's about honor.

Sasha Roiz: And Virgins in 12.

Tom Lieber: Exactly.

Sasha Roiz: Determining your own fate is a major importance to all.

Tom Lieber: This is where you go all?

Sasha Roiz: I don't think they kept that version. I'm not sure.

Tom Lieber: It's our big hug scene.

Sasha Roiz: It's our big love scene. Brotherly bromance. I remember us talking about as well how this being really important emotionally like in the series as well because this was the peak for us because this is the first time the brothers actually addressed this. They've never spoken about this. All that sort of deep-seated aggression towards one another and all the antagonism that you saw between us really stems at the heart of it from this. And we never, as characters, discussed it before. So now that it's out in the open, there's a huge relief and release. And also, I think from this point on in the series, you see the brothers hand in hand. No one's going to be in between us anymore. So this was a major scene.

Tom Lieber: You also got to see how that was when they went in different ways. They both dealt with that pain in different ways. Joseph took the straight and narrow.

Sasha Roiz: and yeah and like a lot of a lot of people a lot of people have been through a traumatic event a lot of survivors of traumatic events they often choose never to speak about it and so in many ways I think that was the case with these two characters until this moment so this just brings them really close together see all that freaking emotion that we did for nothing I wonder what do you think that is Tom why didn't they go with the take with it's too much I agree with them I it's

Tom Lieber: Sometimes when you show too much emotion, the audience...

Sasha Roiz: Shuts up.

Tom Lieber: Feels phony. There's nothing for them to do.

Esai Morales: It's a real tough tightrope.

Tom Lieber: So most leading men or tough guys, whatever, very stoic.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah, just watching that, I mean, it was enough for me to tear up. Just watching my character point the gun at his father made me want to cry.

Tom Lieber: So we don't need to squeeze it out.

Esai Morales: And also, it's not about the pain of the immediacy of the moment. It's about the pain of 30 years of scotch issue.

Tom Lieber: Very well put.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah.

Tom Lieber: There we go.

Sasha Roiz: The first tattoos.

Esai Morales: See the way I held you?

Sasha Roiz: Uh-huh. The hug?

Tom Lieber: That's the end of the act.

Sasha Roiz: I want to cry.

Tom Lieber: All right.

Sasha Roiz: Yeah.

Tom Lieber: It was really, I'm going to go back to like 110, the "Unvanquished."

Magda Apanowicz: Wait, she's back in his house?

Sasha Roiz: I think Eric did such a tremendous job directing ["Unvanquished"]. And I think part of it, and it's a shame he didn't almost get a chance to do more, because it's so intimate. No one knows the show as intimate as someone who's performing in it. So it was really fun to get that perspective as well. I mean, we had lots of great directors. Everyone did a great job. It was interesting, like, his particular take, because he's working from the inside.

Tom Lieber: Right, he knows every character. He knows exactly where their heads are at.

Sasha Roiz: Now what's happening here?

Tom Lieber: Amanda...

Sasha Roiz: Amanda and... they're starting to reconcile and Daniel just told him...

Magda Apanowicz: When did she just appear to him?

Tom Lieber: Last episode. She decided to come back and see him. And Daniel just told her that Zoe's still alive.

Esai Morales: I just had a kid.

Sasha Roiz: I don't know either.

Tom Lieber: She just found out that her daughter's alive. And she said, I want to go in and see her.

Sasha Roiz: Whoa.

Tom Lieber: It's true, Esai just had a kid.

Magda Apanowicz: What's it called?

Tom Lieber: Congrats, Esai.

Esai Morales: Thank you.

Tom Lieber: It's been announced.

Esai Morales: The kid's name is Mariana.

Tom Lieber: And I don't know how much personal stuff to give you.

Esai Morales: Thank you guys for joining us.

Sasha Roiz: Thank you guys.

Tom Lieber: Thank you.

Sasha Roiz: I hope you enjoyed Adama Rama.

Tom Lieber: Adama Rama.

Sasha Roiz: I think that's a new ride at Universal, isn't it?

Tom Lieber: It is.

Sasha Roiz: Only if you keep the show alive.

Tom Lieber: Thank you.