Talk:Helena Cain/Archive 1

Moved to a page listing her surname first, hope no one minds.

I wonder why the Pegasus didn't follow Adama's order to rendezvous at Ragnar? Left the system before he sent it, or just Cain's megalomania? Kuralyov 16:50, 29 Jun 2005 (EDT)

We may have that answer by this episode. It's a strong possibility that Cain may never have received the message since wireless has a range limit, and she may have jumped way out of range after the message was sent. Or, going to Ragnar was too hazardous for Pegasus, and Cain had to figure out where the fleet might have headed from Ragnar, in addition to perhaps avoiding her own pursuing Cylons. Spencerian 17:59, 23 September 2005 (EDT)

Actually, I was thinking of doing entries by their first name. The reason that this was done in the first place was because we, at the time, didn't know how to alphabetize listings by their last name in categories... Unless you have a reason why we should continue with going by surname first, I would like to go to a format with first - middle - last name as the namespace. -- Joe Beaudoin 19:34, 29 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Fine with me, although seems like it's going to take a helluva long time to re-do all the entries. Kuralyov 19:54, 29 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Actress

http://www.lvrocks.com/cgi-bin/cutecast/cutecast.cgi?forum=38&thread=2983#1

"And the big news was that Jane Seymour (Dr Quinn, East of Eden) from the original series, turned down the role of Admiral Cain. And Lynda Carter (Wonder Woman), Victoria Principal (DALLAS), Susan Lucci (All My Children) and Kate Mulgrew (Star Trek: Voyager) are all being consider for the hopeful female role.

If the role cannot be filled by a woman they are looking at David Soul (Starsky and Hutch) or Don Johnson (Miami Vice) who was in that show with Olmos."

Personally, I think Kate Mulgrew would be the best choice.

Kuralyov 20:30, 30 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Out of those choices, I do agree. Mulgrew is a good actress -- pity she was under-used in Voyager, IMHO. -- Joe Beaudoin 21:09, 30 Jun 2005 (EDT)

My new info

http://www.calendarlive.com/printedition/calendar/suncal/cl-ca-lettersannex17jul17,0,7954431.story?coll=cl-suncal

Scroll down to the letter by "Tess Harper." Kuralyov 00:40, 18 Jul 2005 (EDT)

"Spoiler Boxes"

The spoiler boxes have a serious flaw--you can't see the "this is a spoiler" line at the top when you're using the Monobook skin. It's too dark to read. I highlighted and ended up seeing the spoiler, and I didn't want to. Of course now I know what the box is and I won't highlight it anymore, but I would appreciate it if the box could be edited to be compatible with all the skins. Thanks. --Fang Aili 00:16, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

I'm copying this to Battlestar Wiki talk:Spoiler Policy, FYI. --Peter Farago 00:21, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

Helena?

SciFi.com is calling her Helena Cain. What do they say in the episode and captions? --Peter Farago 16:08, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

copied from Battlestar Wiki talk:Characters

Okay. So, according to this, Cain's name is Helena, not Nelena. The former seems like a much more, well, reasonable first name, but it could be a typo or whatever. Anyone know where we got Nelena from? --Day 16:43, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

IMDB says "Nelena". --Peter Farago 16:46, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

IMDB doesn't mena jack. Nelena was what all the spoilers called her, although Helena makes much more sense - the name means "Greek woman," which is obviously a connection with the background mythos of the series. Kuralyov 17:06, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

I know it doesn't mean jack, but SciFi.com isn't always right either. Maybe someone who has the episode on tape could re-watch the scene where she's introduced and chime in? --Peter Farago 17:08, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

I taped the episode but they never say her name or see it printed: it's not in the end credits, and at the beginning it just says "Special Guest Star; Michelle Forbes". I checked and it is not in "Pegasus". We should find confirmation in "Resurrection Ship". --Ricimer 11:54, 18 October 2005 (EDT)

Um, when has SciFi.com never been right? In fact, they had a lot of stuff before it was even shwon in the show - Tyrol's first name, the Celestra, and the ship specifications. All of those were backed up either by the show or ZOIC. And seeing as every name in the show has been a real name, and Nelena isn't, and Helena works with the Greek centrism of the show, there's no reason to think that it's wrong. And in any event, claiming that IMDb takes precedence over the official site is laughable. Kuralyov 17:15, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

Well, for one thing their older pages spell "Gemenon" as "Geminon", which was contradicted by "Colonial Day" - note that Helena/Nelena is also a one-letter spelling difference. But I don't really feel the need to carry on an argument about whether IMDB or SciFi are more reliable, when we can simply watch the episode over again at our next opportunity and see what the characters actually say. --Peter Farago 17:37, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

Please remember to be, well, cautious about content from Sci-Fi and IMDb. They've had errors crop up on both pages before; for instance, Paul Tigh instead of Saul Tigh, and I believe they even indicated that the character Grimes (in "Colonial Day") was also an assassin at one point. As for IMDb, they're really hit or miss on things such as this. -- Joe Beaudoin 20:58, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

I can see where a typo could have occurred with the similarity between a capital "N" or "H." Still, it makes it harder when the character name is not used in speech in an episode to verify. Spencerian 10:46, 18 October 2005 (EDT)

Isn't she in the credits? --Peter Farago 11:24, 18 October 2005 (EDT)

Why?

I just got done watching Resurrection Ship, Part I -- that sound you heard (like a strem-locomotive being eaten alive) was me. Oh the pain the pain the pain! How could they (the writers) do this? Cain -- in the orginal -- was headstrong and made an "act of tactical misjudgement;" but he was mainly a leader who always inspired others. Even the Galactica personel were awed by him -- so much so that Apollo and Starbuck tried the absurd stunt of flyint two "Vipers against Baseships." But this woman makes my skin crawl. Her insubordination to the President is reminicent of MacArthur's own insubordination with President Truman. But for her to openly order her people to murder Adama and his command staff and take the Galactica -- that is totally out in left field. There is no way any officer in any military heirarcy could rise through the ranks or have any respect from their subordinates with such a cold blooded additude. The original Cain inspired those under him, but this one commands through fear. No officer like that could ever rise to the rank of Admiral. The orders she has given are illegal and she knows it. The orders she has given are illegal and the people under her know it. And this isn't the first illegal order she's given. She should have been relived when she murdered her XO. You don't obey illegal orders. What the hell is going on here? I have considered this NEW incarnation of the series to be charachter-rape of the worst kind -- and now its gotten wose than I thought possiple. They're going too darn far! Why are they doing this? -- Centuri 06:06, 8 January 2006 (EST)

Welcome to the Wiki, Centuri. "I feel your pain." But, this is a different show so we cannot expect the same characterizations or else we'd lose the conflicts and contrasts we've enjoyed so far. This show is not a clone of the original, so a different mindset is required. This is a story of what humanity with its back to the wall. And despite that, the humans still find ways to screw themselves over. I think you did hit upon some similarities between the RDM Cain and her TOS counterpart. This Cain IS well respected by her crew--they have gone through life and death together in a way that Galactica's crew hadn't quite done in the same scale. Yet Cain is an extremist--her military training has made her forget the reason she and her crew exist--the preservation and protection of the Colonies and her people. She uses the letter of the law and ignores the spirit of the law. For example, if by taking some of her civilian fleet's supplies she would ensure the survival of all of the colonists in those ships as she escorted them out of harm's way, that would be understandable. But she left them to die just to fight--and for what? Roslin said it best; Cain is a threat to the Fleet because she believes that (1) fighting is all that there is to do, and by her rules, and (2) she ignores or forgets that the military serves the people and not the other way around. She will turn on the civilians for the "greater good" of defeating an undefeatable enemy. As far as Cain being relieved of duty, remember that she's built up a lot of morale on her ship through her fights--the crew respect her, if not likes her. They know she kicks ass. And they are also infected with the same fighting attitude that blinds them to what they should really be doing. And her crew also fears her for the same reason--no one but Adama and his crew may have the guts to challenge her. Roslin is completely right when she tells Adama she must be killed. If she doesn't die, EVERYONE may die. The Colonial Fleet wasn't perfect; Cain's promotion likely came through the same poor decisions that doomed them all. Adama has a chance to undo it and gain resources to ensure their survival. Remember, Adama would be Cain if Roslin didn't talk him out of fighting.

The fact that you are incensed means that the writing is working. :) Take the show as a new story and temporarily place the good story that was "The Living Legend" aside for an hour. This Cain is no hero, but this Adama will step up to the plate as I thought his counterpart should have been in TOS. --Spencerian 13:11, 8 January 2006 (EST)

"There is no way any officer in any military heirarcy could rise through the ranks or have any respect from their subordinates with such a cold blooded additude." Oh, how I wish that were true... As for her orders' illegality, I don't think it's really clear that anything she's done is explicitly illegal -- though that certainly doesn't make her actions acceptable. --Redwall 17:24, 8 January 2006 (EST)

Re-imagined Series definition: Executive Officer, e.g. Saul Tigh