Battlestar Wiki talk:The Merovingian Ban

Please REMEMBER TO BE COURTEOUS and WP:CIVIL AS The Merovingian CAN NOT RESPOND. This is a remember to all parties adding comments to this page... myself included. --Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 16:00, 1 September 2006 (CDT)

Comments

It must have been a hard decision to take such a drastic action, but I'm sure that this move will only benefit the wiki in the future. --Ribsy 00:14, 30 August 2006 (CDT)

I'm intrigued to know what's happened in the last few days for such a hard decision to be made. I was on vacation from the wiki all last week and I dont use Skiffy boards or other forums to know what happens off-wiki... --Mercifull ^{(Talk/Contribs)} 04:07, 30 August 2006 (CDT)

I suspect the off-wiki behavior has just come to a head. But I'd not speculate further. We are what we are outside and inside the wiki. While Merv's face was improving here, it seems he began to claim the wiki as his own, and this isn't a place we can take ownership in. We can all take pride in adding our own contributions to form, together, one great resource for everyone, yes, but we can not take ownership to be point of being catty, rude or representing yourself as a wiki official without authorization. --Spencerian 12:42, 30 August 2006 (CDT)

It was not only that, but his general behavior to people off-wiki -- his behavior even prompted RDM's own wife, Terry, who posts on the SciFi.com boards as "Mrs Ron", to warn Merv about his's own behavior. (In light of how she herself is painted as "a champion of [Merv's] bad behavior", I do not envy her current position as well, which apparently mirrors our own in some ways.) What I do know through conversing with others who aren't contributors to the Wiki, but have their pulse on the fandom, is that he has damaged the wiki through his actions as he is associated with us. (He's made this association clear through a banner on the SciFi.com boards, a banner that I will ask be removed from his signature immediately.) I know that he's caused damage to the wiki; it's not like any of this is not out there on the boards and the like -- it is. I've tried to establsh damage control, hence the Official Representation policy, which, I will freely admit, is a direct response to Merv's previous actions. He has (almost) cost us a very good contributor in the process just within the last 48 hours and, in talking with others, I have determined that an RFC would have caused much, much more issues than the primary issue we were attempting to fix. I'll make it pretty clear that this decision was not a spur of the moment; I've thought about it intermittently for some time now, until I could put the pieces together all of the events that have transpired for the last six to eight months, without massive bias on either side of the issue. The sad thing is that it all adds up to a very nasty picture, which I refuse to have this wiki be a part of. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 17:35, 30 August 2006 (CDT)

I dont need to know about the reasons that leave to Merv´s banning ,hes childish behavior and arrogance are very well known arround the BSG fanbase.These action open the gate to our group of fans that avoided these place because we didnt want any involment to do with the Merovignian. The FRAKHEADS! and the BSG-55 board will celebrate these desition and ad theyr contributions to the BSG wiki project.

Moctezuma. BSG-55 FRAKHEADS! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Moctezuma (talk • contribs).--Moctezuma 19:17, 30 August 2006 (CDT)

Dont worry about these site image on the contraire,the relevance of the content and the profesional structure are really amazing, im very pleased to read about a young profesional entrepenour like you and the TEAM that makes these site posible.--Moctezuma 19:17, 30 August 2006 (CDT)

Thank you for your kind words. I personally appreciate them. :-) -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 22:22, 31 August 2006 (CDT)

A comment by Dogger and replies to it

I don't understand what has prompted this move at this time, and there is nothing in your announcement, Joe, that really explains it. I have been clued out of the community for a few weeks now, and there may well have been some new incident that showed Merv not only to be unworthy of adminship, but unworthy of editing as well. But if there is, you haven't cited it. When I saw the title of this page I expected to see laid out for me a series of recent references to Merv's transgressions both here and off-site. I didn't get it. Why not? Banning people out of the blue for vaguely generalised past behaviour casts, IMO, an even worse impression on the wiki. Is it because he called somebody a moron in that thread? If it is, just say so. Why the hints and characterisations? Is the trigger that MrsRon spoke against him? I wouldn't call what she wrote a scathing indictment, just a mild voice of reason.

Judging from the arguments I have seen from people on this site in such matters, which have been generally very rational and of a high level, I find this announcement disappointing, more for the content of the announcement than the actual decision that was taken. It comes across as an emotional reaction -- something that I thought the wiki was above indulging. If you were going to ban somebody from editing, I would expect this to include a carefully cited set of examples of his behaviour, not a link to a single slur wrapped in several paragraphs of what basically boils down to 'People don't think he's cool and therefore they think the wiki isn't cool.' I suggest that in the future if you ban anyone from doing anything that you dispense entirely with all of the talk about wiki's reputation (which dominates your announcement and is not on point, i.e. it's not the relevant issue), and instead take a much more rational and carefully laid out approach that concentrates on examples (especially recent ones) of Merv's actual behaviour, because without that, there is no 'there' there. And that presents the appearance at least of having arbitrarily and without careful consideration (but merely out of a sense of fed-upness) chosen a side in what is ultimately a personality conflict in fandom, and chosen the side that will result in the least repercussions for the wiki. As in, maybe if you get rid of Merv the whole conflict will just go away? Okay, leave aside the fact that this doesn't seem to be an actual valid reason for banning anybody; more importantly, what happens to the next target chosen for unpopularity by your secret sources? Do we all have to curry favour now with certain off-wiki fan personalities to remain in good standing here? And exactly who are these people, anyway, with their "fingers on the pulse of fandom"? They don't have their fingers on MY pulse. You might as well have said that Merv has been excommunicated because a shadowy figure came to your doorway and slipped you a note after you left an X on your window. It really leaves an awful impression.

I don't really have time to debate this at length, but I think the way this decision was presented reflects very poorly on the wiki, because I find most of the things you have talked about to be not relevant. Think about somebody with no prior experience of this conflict reading what you just wrote, Joe. You have given this hypothetical newbie almost no actual clear and present reason to believe that The Merovingian is still the imperious dictator you say he is, and instead given him/her a major reason that is right in their face to believe exactly that about you and about the wiki.

I'm not asking that you reverse the decision. I don't know enough to say that. As I say, I have not been privy to what's been going on, which is why the paper-thinness of what is on this page is so glaringly obvious. But I hope that in the future any bannings of longtime members that are under consideration will be handled much more carefully and methodically than what I see here. It also would help if there were reference made to violations of an official policy on exactly what is bannable and what is not. Is being unpopular with other fans a bannable offence? You give a very strong impression here that it is.--Dogger 03:22, 1 September 2006 (CDT)

What prompted the banning were the fact that, repeatedly, editors have tried to up and leave regarding his behavior -- behavior which is well documented on the message boards to which he participates as well as the wiki. It is not only pathetic that I have to keep on talking down contributors who have had issues with Merv, but it is also pathetic that people, like Shane (who isn't even an admin, for pete's sake), have to talk people out of doing such an act. Perhaps you didn't know this, as it wasn't common knowledge, but myself and the other administrators, such as Peter, have been endeavoring to help Merv soften his behavior. For a while, it seems he was improving in his behavior, until the complaints -- from people who hardly participate in message boards -- started rolling in again.

I'm not going to release names because they have come to me in confidence -- though I do hope that they have the courage to come forward, since I believe it would be cathartic for them. But Merv is directly responsible for us almost losing a very good member of this community 24 hours prior to making my decision.

We have had issues with Merv for quite some time now, including the whole KR thing which, sad to say, almost damaged the wiki more than I've ever let on. This is detailed in his three Requests for Adminship, which I believe you may have read, as well as throughout the wiki. Feel free to do a search in our wiki, or even a Google search. (As I said, it's all out there for review.)

Merv has also attempted to comport himself as taking ownership of the wiki on various occassions, despite our attempts to curtail such behavior by establishing our Official Representation policy. No one here, including myself (who shoulders the burden of financing, tech support, and being the one who tends to mediate issues here), dares take ownership of the wiki because it is a team effort. We are one here; everyone works together to build this reference. If there is someone who tries to use Battlestar Wiki as his personal pulpit, such as in the whole KR thing which is documented in our archives here, then they will reap the consequences of doing such a thing from not only myself, but from the community.

Fact of the matter is that I haven't included links due to the fact that his behavior outside the wiki and goals are so glaringly apparent that I believed such a thing was unnecessary; I now know why he was so insistant on getting adminship here at the wiki as well, which was to solidfy a position to be some sort of prima donna information broker in the fandom. (This motivation doubtless lead to the near-disasterous incident with KR, which Peter should be thanked for mitigating.) I firmly believe that Merv never wanted the responsibility; he wanted the title, which is something that the cynical part of me has always suspected.

To satisfy your curiousity regarding links and a dossier of his behavior on and off wiki, there are people who are working to create a compilation of all of Merv's replies and actions to date. A link to it, most likely in PDF format, will be uploaded to my website and linked here as an archive for all to see upon completion and review. I personally think such a thing is a waste of time, but I want everything out there because the truth will come out sooner or later, as it always does.

Also, Merv's assertion that people such as Darth Marley have been mailbombing me with complaints is totally ludicrous and strikes me as an indicator of Merv's paranoia, as well as solidifies what I've found to be a characteristic of his personality: that he will take leaps of logic with pithy information and without thorough research. I have never corresponded with Marley or others (I've talked to Larocque, but that's because I respect him for all his work he's done with the original Battlestar Galactica FAQs and so forth); to continue, I've read what they've said on the boards and had I heeded them immediately, this ban would have happened several months ago. Merv's popularity, or lack thereof, had no bearing on this decision -- it was his actions and his treatment of others both on and off wiki that came to a head. Call it the powder keg just waiting to be lit that Merv's actions (and consequences of his actions) have built up for months, if you will.

There was no "ban Merv" caucus or calls from said non-existant caucus to ban Merv that lobbied me; Merv acted uncivily and nearly scared off new and even established contributors (that I know about, anyway), as a result, was banned indefinitely, until he wishes to act like a respectful human being and not the overbearing person he's projected himself to be.

If Merv wants to be a part of a community, he can't act like the progeny of a prima donna and pitbull. Such progency and the goals of a productive community are mutually exclusive and have no place with one another.

Humility. Integrity. Respect. Honesty. Collaboration. These are things that the wiki stands for and, quite frankly, Merv's actions do not fit in line with the philosophies of this wiki. And, needless to say, Merv is being watched very carefully now more than ever even from people who have better uses for their valuable time. Think about that for a moment, or for as long as you need to... why would people waste their valuable time to watch him like a hawk?

I think there is something very wrong with this picture, and it is something I have no desire to have this wiki be a part of. Hence my executive decision. Now I've said enough and have better things to accomplish... do excuse me. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 09:18, 1 September 2006 (CDT)

Thanks Joe for making such a concerted effort to explain yourself further. I think it helps make this page intelligible. It still bothers me somewhat that most of your complaints are from behaviour that is not clear & present but now ancient history as in it does make the timing seem somewhat arbitrary. If you were going to ban Merv over the KR incident then it should have been done long ago. To now name that incident as a major reason for his banning doesn't make much sense. The things you are saying about fresh altercations with new wiki members are very relevant but you seem to be not at liberty to discuss them further, which is unfortunate because that should be the meat of your case: it is that stuff that would be the most justifiable support for a move like this at this time, not the KR thing. Sometimes when you take a shotgun approach you damage your case, because it isn't clear to anyone exactly why all the stuff is a good reason now but wasn't a good reason then (is there is a timer that goes off six months after a bad act that results in a banning?). It invites speculation as to what is happening behind the scenes. Too bad you can't much talk about what I consider to be the only valid reasons you have named for taking a fresh look at Merv's membership status; knowing the history I'll take your word for it, but laying out this recent evidence would have been far preferable. I hope you know this and will consider how important that is in making this kind of announcement. The wiki is not in control of Merv's actions; but it is in control of its own actions, and the transparency and above-boardness with which you handle a banning speaks much more directly to the character of this place than anything done by one of its members.--Dogger 14:48, 1 September 2006 (CDT)

I agree, Dogger - I feel that I must give Joe the benefit of the doubt on this matter, but we are at great risk of setting a bad precedent here. I eagerly anticipate a final report on the off-wiki behavior of Merv's which justified this. --Peter Farago 19:07, 1 September 2006 (CDT)

Bad precedent, indeed. If I've read your arguments correctly, then generalized bad behavior AWAY from bsgwiki is considerable cause for banning ON bsgwiki. In light of this, I have a list of usernames I'd like to see banned for some serious bad behvaior on skiffy. Where would you like those names sent? What if I wanted to complain about Joe's "executive decision making" on this "community run board?" Who would I submit those anonymous, unrepeatable, and unspecified charges to? Just curious. Would it be possible for you "leaders" to post a really good list of offenses off-board that will get me banned here? I mean, I flipped off the guy who cut me off in traffic today. AND I made a really mean joke about Dualla on Skiffy sometime back and I REALLY upset a lot of people. Can I expect my login here to stop working? -AerynSun44 22:01, 1 September 2006 (CDT)

If he wanted to be hated by the community in his own fashintion he can, but as soon as you link bad behaviour with the wiki using the wiki as a tool that's not correct. No one person speaks for the wiki, except Joe. I don't see any other users setting up camp on the SciFi Forums who speaks for the wikiw and then on top of that, "acts in bad faith" using the wiki as a tool. Name someone else who uses the wiki as a refernece on the SciFi forums in a bad manor. --Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 22:14, 1 September 2006 (CDT)

So, it was the incident from several months ago that prompted the banning (as opposed to recent, mysterious incidents) because he used battlestarwiki to paint a user in an extremely negative light. Not unlike, um, using the administrative banning function and associated talk pages to publicly humiliate a user with as broad coverage as possible. Oh, wait. Did I say that out loud? -AerynSun44 22:31, 1 September 2006 (CDT)

I did not say that. Joe statied it's a number of reasons. Current and past. --Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 22:41, 1 September 2006 (CDT)

Alrighty, I think the blonde girl has finally caught up with the logic train. The banning was the result of an offense committed months ago (that Joe is now also guilty of - using bsgwiki pages to publicly humiliate another member of fandom) and mysterious, unspecified charges levied by persons unknown. Got it. I do appreciate the clarifications. -AerynSun44 22:48, 1 September 2006 (CDT)

Aeryn, I thank you for sharing your point of view with us. It is very welcomed, although I would like to ask that you please calm yourself. This isn't end of the world type stuff we're talking about here.

However, you need to know that Merv placed himself in a position where he and the wiki were intertwined; this isn't one of our contributors going out and making mean or sexists jokes on the SciFi Bulletin Boards. (It's up to SciFi's administration on whether or not to deter that kind of behavior, not ours.) Essentially, had he not placed himself in a position to act (and insinuate that he was) the wiki's unauthorized promoter or placed the unauthorized banner beneath his posts with the URL and icon to this wiki then his off-wiki behavior would have never been brought into question. And this is not a one time incident, hence the creation of our Official Representation policy which, ironically or not, Merv supported. To go with what Peter said in one of Merv's previous RFAs, I am not concerned about what other people think of a contributor -- unless they deliberately placed themselves in a position to use the wiki as a backing to advance his own agendas. Agendas that he has made clear in the past. I am concerned about the image of the wiki, as well as ensuring that no ones contributions have been in vain because of the acts of a person or group out to advance an agenda. (This agenda will be made crystal clear once the dossier on Merv's overall behaviors on and off wiki have been completed and published.)

I will also state again that everything has a cumulative effect and Merv's behavior on-wiki has come first circle, much to the point where we nearly lost one very good contributor. For some time now I (and others) have had to deal with Merv's behavior to others and try to mitigate the damage. Were it not for the work of the dedicated individuals in this community to retain those upset members, we would have lost more people than Merv.

As you yourself may not be aware, we as admins and contributors have tried to make Merv understand that his treatment of others is destructive and damaging to a community. None of his behaviors to date are a surprise to either myself nor anyone else here who has been for more than six months. The fact that I had to perma-ban Merv disappoints me, because it tells me we have failed to help Merv modify his social skills to a point where he can be respectful of others and their opinions, regardless of whether he views them as "moronic" or vapid from his point of view.

At this point, my concern is whether or not the wiki will recover from the damage Merv's inflicted. For a place he claims to love so much, he's endangered all our work here with his actions... and I've sid enough, because I will wait for the dossier to come out and then, as it is said, the truth will attend to itself, because it always does one way or the other. And then you can all do with the dossier what you will; you can believe or not. The choice to believe or not to believe is up to you.

Thank you for your interest and your concern. :-) -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 22:51, 1 September 2006 (CDT)

Joe, I find your comment to be condenscending and mean-spirited. I engaged your representative in a dialog concerning your unilateral action and your response is a very rude "calm yourself." I demand an apology for your poor judgment in dealing with me since I am, as far as I know, a member in good standing of this community. Your use of harsh words and offensive tone was derogative and completely unwarranted; I am deeply insulted and plan on quitting this board unless you apologize immediately. -AerynSun44 22:58, 1 September 2006 (CDT)

Aeryn, I did not mean to be mean spirited; I'm sorry if you viewed my words as mean spirited, I am merely concerned about ensuring that everyone remains calm. It does no one any good to act irrationally. I recognize that this is a highly emotional situation. For instance, I myself am not fond of making this decision, but all I ask is that people please wait until the evidence comes to light. Then you and everyone will better understand why I banned Merv for the ultimate good of this community. That's all I ask right now during this difficult time. Thank you. Now I'm going to get some sleep. Good night everyone. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 23:15, 1 September 2006 (CDT)

As a minor point of interest, a true apology is one in which the offender says "I am sorry for what I said/did" (taking responsibility for his actions) NOT one in which the offender says "I am sorry you didn't understand what I said/did" (taking no responsibility for his actions and placing blame on the other party). There is a difference. I am inclined to observe that the efforts to reform the student may not have succeeded because the teachers suffered the same failings. This is just a hypothesis, of course.

I AM one to mince words but I will get to the point anyway (finally). You had an opportunity and ability to handle this privately with Mero. But you chose instead to make a broad, public statement via a project page and associated discussion; you CHOSE to publicly humilate someone who has worked tirelessly on behalf of your pet project when you had the opportunity to be silent and let the pieces fall where they may. From where I sit, this says much more about you and your approach to this "community" than it does about Mero. In the same project page you tout your "executive decision making" powers but try to convince us "we are all one." The latter rings false in the shadow of the former.

Whether I agree with your decision or not is really irrelevant and I certainly do not dispute your right to make the call but I have serious doubts about your sincerity in light of your approach. This doesn't feel like the results of careful consideration and thoughtful examination of facts. It feels like opportunistic public flogging designed to inflict the most damage possible and to "recruit" people to your point of view. These aren't the actions of a good, reasonable administrator.

Of course, everyone here will agree that I am no one of any importance - just the hall monitor - and my opinions don't really matter all that much but I would invite you to consider that what has transpired here (the public nature of your decision implementation) may appease a few but many others will remember this course of events in a less positive light. -AerynSun44 00:45, 2 September 2006 (CDT)

I'm not going to comment on any opinions here, but you made a false assertion of fact. Apology has three meanings; loosely, one corresponds to your "I am sorry for what I said/did," and another corresponds to your "I am sorry you didn't understand what I said/did." --CalculatinAvatar^(C-T) 11:39, 2 September 2006 (CDT)

A comment by Elach and replies to it

Wow, what an interesting exercise in community this is! And in the transgression of a community’s stated and unstated rules. I think it is great that people care enough to spend the time to debate what is acceptable and what is intolerable and in doing so, they are taking a major step in defining what the Battlestar Wiki community really stands for. (I’m reading a book right now about the trial of Socrates that argues that particular moment in history recast Athenian society forever, and I can’t help but be struck by the parallels.)

Regarding the matter at hand, namely, dear Mr. Merovingian … I have to say I have personally experienced his insensitivity, his high-handedness, and his editorial caprice. These encounters have left me smarting sometimes, and more than once I have thought, Frak this! I don’t need to put up with this s—t! and vowed never to visit Battlestar Wiki again. But I always have, and that probably has more to do with my continuing interest in the show, as well as the kindness, helpfulness and generosity of others I have met here online.

From what I know, and what I have read here, The Merovingian has clearly stepped on a lot of toes and crossed a lot of lines he probably shouldn’t have. But I believe he cares a great deal about Battlestar Galactica, and the world of the fans, and we should try to give him a chance to do the right thing, make amends, and find a new and probably different place for himself in the group … if that is still possible. We owe him that, at the very least. Now, I said, “if that is still possible.” I personally have no problem with him staying, on some amended basis, but that is really a collective decision.

I do know that, regarding his recent mysterious transgressions that have brought him to this precipice, I think we as a community need to know what he is accused of doing, even if it is only “behavior unbecoming” a whatever, not so much for his sake, but for the sake of everybody else. We need to know where the lines are, so we can know when they are being crossed. It may be painful and humiliating for The Merovingian, and difficult and embarrassing for the leaders of Battlestar Wiki, but clearing the air is the only way I believe we can move forward at this point, and openness and plain-dealing should be something we strive for among everyone who wants to participate.

Those are my humble thoughts, anyway. --Elach 02:31, 2 September 2006 (CDT)

One of the cold facts about the Wiki and all internet boards is that they are not truely public squares. People or companies own them and those people or companies have the right to exercise "landlord" privledges, whether we like it or not. There are no hall monitors, no apriori entitlements to due process and no real obligations to act on an exclusivly logical basis. Joe owns this Wiki and he can evict whoever he wants. The tension this creates for a Wiki is that Wiki's are meant to be democratic exercises in the sense that they are community efforts. This can make the banning of a contributor, especially someone as prolific as Mero, seem aganst the spirit of what this place is meant to be. Which brings us to the issue of Mero.

Just to put my biases right on the table: I'm a Mortal Storm and Moist Board memeber and I've publically resisted any of Mero's attempts to curry favor or positions of authority in this fan base in several venues. I don't know him outside his presentation here or on the boards, I just know what tone he strikes online.

I support Joe's decision because I think Mero's ban will have the paradoxical effect of making the Wiki a more democratic effort. At place after place after place, Mero treats people he deems unworthy with sneering contempt, presents himself in self aggrandizing ways and seeks to quietly or overtly assume a role of authority. His treatment of newbies at Skiffy is one example. His repeated reffrences to his own intelligence and accomplishments is another. His repeated attempts to gain admin status at Wiki and his advocating for fan moderators at Skiffy rond out the trifecta. He displays in his online behavior the combination of power lust and disdain for others that would make what is a hobby for most of us a huge pain in the ass. I'm a grown man with a job, a family and accomplishments of my own. I come to these places to kick back and have fun, not cow-tow to someone who thinks they run boards with "an iron fist." My gut reaction to these kinds of behaviors is "WTF dude, I'm not gonna hang out for this."

Which is exactly the point.

With all due respect to the good folks who run this place and all the nice people in this fan base: what we do here is nerdy entertainment, not anything to be taken seriously. Petty nerdy bickering and pretentiousness is par for the course when you get a group of smart and detail oriented folks hanging around together. If it were just that level of stuff from Mero, it would be the usual online social background noise. Mero takes it a step further, treating people in a way that makes them want to go elsewhere, without comment or rebuke, to just go away. That kind of thing is deadly for a Wiki, which is premised on the idea of folks coming together and sharing their contributions in a collaborative, respectful manner.

Mero's investment in the Wiki has led him to make overt and subtle statements to both associate him with the Wiki and overstate his role in it's administaration. I did not compile what follows, and I apologize to the person who did for using their work without citation or permission, but it is a selection of what I mean.

• http://mboard.scifi.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=BattlestarGalactica&Number=1521770&Searchpage=8&Main=1521313&Words=wiki&topic=&Search=true#Post1521770
• http://mboard.scifi.com/printthread.php?Board=BattlestarGalactica&main=1634504&type=post
• http://mboard.scifi.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=BattlestarGalactica&Number=1643559&Searchpage=7&Main=1643092&Words=wiki&topic=&Search=true#Post1643559
• http://mboard.scifi.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=BattlestarGalactica&Number=1672875&Searchpage=6&Main=1672384&Words=Wiki&topic=&Search=true#Post1672875
• http://mboard.scifi.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=BattlestarGalactica&Number=1693478&Searchpage=6&Main=1692682&Words=Wiki&topic=&Search=true#Post1693478
• http://mboard.scifi.com/printthread.php?Board=BattlestarGalactica&main=1775993&type=post
• http://mboard.scifi.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=BattlestarGalactica&Number=1775993&Searchpage=5&Main=1638887&Words=Wiki&topic=&Search=true#Post1775993]

This kind of behavor sends the message that Mero runs this place. He doesn't. It sends the message that it's his playground and that he exercises editorial power. He doesn't. If I ran a place meant to encourage people to contibute and join the fun, this is the very last thing I would want one of my members doing. Joe has been patient and measured in trying to give Mero feedback and to clarify who speaks for this place, but it's continued all the same. When you tell people to stop acting like they speak in your name and they continue to do so, it's time to pull the microphone. Mero doesn't deserve to be tarred and feathered every time he posts. He needs to stop treating people poorly while expecting to be treated like a noble personage, and then talking about his role at the BSW.

Ugly, sad business, but the right move.

--Cranky1c 07:48, 2 September 2006 (CDT)

I only find links 2 and 4 to be especially damning. --Peter Farago 10:48, 2 September 2006 (CDT)

was the sig --Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 11:43, 2 September 2006 (CDT)

That sig does not strike me as making any kind of grandiose claim of status or ownership at BSG wiki - it really appears to be a very straightforward advertisement, the sort of which is common on the scifi.com forum, at least. The only harm I can imagine it doing is associating the Merovingian with our site, but that is an inevitability for any user involved in both communities. --Peter Farago 12:55, 2 September 2006 (CDT)

That sig is completely innocuous. And the "damning" links 2 and 4 are over six months old, from long before Merv undertook to reform his excesses of pride -- an overture that as I recall this community accepted. This is exactly what I'm talking about where a shotgun approach weakens a case. Merv was given another chance, so any case against him should focus almost exclusively on his behaviour SINCE that time, with the older stuff mentioned perhaps as contextual background but not as the primary cause. If post-"reform" evidence is going to be the meat of this 'dossier' that is being assembled by Joe, then I look forward to reading it. But if all it's going to consist of is a rehashing of these old grievances then I can guarantee that I will not be impressed.--Dogger 17:02, 2 September 2006 (CDT)

Dear Cranky1c et al., I hear what you guys are saying and the points generally seem well-taken and -substantiated. I'm relatively new here, and quite frankly not that active, but I personally would rather give a guy one chance too many than prematurely condemn him. That's all I'm saying. We will all need a little compassion and another (probably undeserved) chance sometime in our lives. Maybe this is The Merovingian's time. As someone said, this is Joe's creation, his baby, probably he is the only one who can give The Merovingian another chance at this point, and set the conditions for that reprieve. But I believe there are no places in Hell for the overly compassionate. I have probably said too much on this topic already. I'm done. I leave the rest to others. --Elach 12:19, 2 September 2006 (CDT)

Shane's Comments

While Merv might see this as a sudden "ban", I don't really think it was. Merv has been giving tons of opportunity to mend relationships with the community a dozen of times. A simple, "Thank you" or "I am sorry." or "I made a mistake. Please forgive it." would have gone a long way.

I realize now, after all this time, that User:Peter Farago deserved a sorry from me because of the two RFC's I filled against him in protest in defending Merv's actions. While I got one a while back when my first RFC was posted by Peter.

Merv, if you want to discuss the polices that you broke, all you need to do is look up all the pages in the Battlestar Wiki namespace. The admins gave you tons of chances and though maybe a mistake on their part for now being more tough on the rules, you should have been able to follow your own suggestions as you did when voting for the BW:OR policy, the first one in-fact. The BW:TANK was created so I had an avenue to get my ideas out and you know what.. it worked. the BW:OR was for you, you didn't know that, but you through it was a good idea after the KR incident.

You say you could not use the high complex templates? I was always willing to help, yet I never got a message saying something. I hope, that you can make peace with yourself, otherwise you will never be able to get along with people in real life. If you were so ambitious why you were blocked, do a search on your username in all the forums that you do. Re-read your posts. Look at where you might have said something that might have offended people. You said once that the Battlestar Wiki article that it was deleted and should not have been because it was just like Memory Alpha. Memory Alpha is a bit larger and it has a little bit more fame since it's been around. But did you ever check the AFD page? Joe, an admin of Wikipedia, voted to delete it. (State of the Wiki II)

As for the wiki, drastic actions as in resorting to outside forums to further your cause also inside the wiki was not a good idea. When you first did it with me and the portals, I found info on two different forums. One was SciFi and the other was the GalacicaBS forums. Why am I being smeared to something that would have a positive effect on the wiki as a whole? Why?

Do you want to know why the person came to me? Because they didn't know if they could bring issues to Joe directly. It could have been the other way around and I could have been out-of-the loop up to the ban and still not what was going on. People came to be because I was fair and have always been fair. (Also since I have direct contact with Joe kinda helps, but that's a side factor). I don't know why you think it was the guys over a MS or Frackheads (?). Can't you think that it was someone who was part of the Wiki? And before you ask yourself, it was not me. Granted, I spend a ton of time here, and know what goes on, I know how people feel.

Anyway, you can contact me via email if you want. You know how.

P.S. Adminship does not grant one "ambasatorship".

P.S.S. If you can prove to the heart that you can be curtiousto others and show that you can repect over people for what they do and how they do it, you will never know if you will be allowed back here. Take this as a vacation as I did. Come back with a fresh view. It might be benifit to your understanding with Joe and the community. You can only prove it to yourself that you can be true to the guidelines of the site that you love.

--Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 14:56, 1 September 2006 (CDT)

Merv needs to grow up. The guy has shown that he has little social skills and alienates fans who don't need to know about the board politics. It's not about him; it's about the show. If he wants to show some humility he'll continue to contribute without attribution. Starting with the podcast transcriptions.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hal Levolier (talk • contribs).

So "we'll ban you but we want you to submit work anyway"? 'Some nerve' doesn't even begin to describe this comment. If Merv doesn't submit those transcripts it proves nothing other than that he understandably doesn't feel motivated to contribute anything to a community that has declared him an outcast. What else would anyone expect? The sense of entitlement here to hours of the man's free labour is kind of breathtaking. If he is banned, then let him move on with his life and find somewhere else to place his efforts. To make this kind of statement that in order to prove his humility he needs to submit not ONLY for free but without credit, is just repugnant. What has happened to this place?--Dogger 01:29, 2 September 2006 (CDT)

Okay never mind. I just checked and Hal Levolier has never edited anything around here, so while that doesn't render his opinion invalid, he wasn't (at least I hope not) expressing any expectation among the regular contributors. Merv's banned, so he's probably done contributing. Nobody should be expecting otherwise.--Dogger 01:55, 2 September 2006 (CDT)

Eloch, or Merv, just fork over the podcasts and take your medicine.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hal Levolier (talk • contribs).

Hal Levolier, it's interesting that you accuse me of artifice, deceit and breaking the rules when you hide behind unsigned comments that cast aspirations on others apparently just because you don't agree with what they are saying. I am who I say I am, and I stand by my comments as my own, and I will submit to any examination that the administrators of this site care to apply to me. Anyone who is governed by reason and compassion will recognize the truth of what I say and the genuineness of my sentiments. Which is more than can be said for you and your postings. Until I hear from you again (and I'm sure I will), I remain steadfast and eternally ... --Elach 04:29, 2 September 2006 (CDT)

Keep it WP:CIVIL guys. --Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 11:17, 2 September 2006 (CDT)

I apologize to Hal, if people feel I have crossed the line. I thought the most I had said was that his own writing does not appear as reasonal, compassionate or genuine as my own. And that only after he accused me of being The Merovingian in disguise, both here and on my own User page. I leave it to the community to decide which is the more uncivil act. But there is enough ill-feeling flying around, and it was never my intention to add to it. So I apologize.--Elach 11:54, 2 September 2006 (CDT)

Takes us a sec to see if it was Merv. So unless otherwise told, it won't be merv. --Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 12:05, 2 September 2006 (CDT)

Aliases on SciFi.com Forums

Now i dont understand!

One of the most drastic sciffy politics its the usage of cloned handles or to post with two handles,i was banned every time i try to log in with adiferent handle so many people that we know,then why in hell these stupid arrogant Merv person now goes to sciffy and openly announce that hes posting under the handle "V" (very stupid i guess) and also keeps posting as the merov_ignian? why does anybody report him to the ADMINS for doing these and get hes ass banned fro sciffy for good,in all fairness these is wrong ,very wrong,i did the same thing and my ip was traced and banned,i dont care,but since when scciffy its a facist forum who favors the assholes and bann the fun seakers?,i dont know about you but i dont like unfairness. quoting merv: Voilà! In View, a humble Vaudevillian Veteran, cast Vicariously as both Victim and Villain by the Vicissitudes of fate. This Visage, no mere Veneer of Vanity, is a Vestige of the Vox populi, now Vacant, Vanished.

However, this Valorous Visitation of a bygone Vexation stands Vivified, and has Vowed to Vanquish these Venal and Virulent Vermin, Vanguarding Vice and Vouchsafing the Violently Vicious and Voracious Violation of Volition! The only Verdict is Vengeance; a Vendetta held as a Votive, not in Vain, for the Value and Veracity of such shall one day Vindicate the Vigilant and the Virtuous.....Verily, this Vichyssoise of Verbiage Veers most Verbose, so let me simply add that it's my Very good honor to meet you and you may call me V.

I am V, formerly known as "The_Merovingian"

Disdaining Fortune with his brandish'd steel, which smoked with bloody execution...

Remember, remember, the 5th of November --V blows up the Old Bailey (British equivalent of the US Supreme Court) on November 5th, Guy Fawkes Day

While the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, Words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of Truth......Fairness, Justice, and Freedom are more than words, they are Perspectives --V hijacks the police-state controlled airwaves to explain why he destroyed the Old Bailey

Governments should be afraid of their People --After taking over the tv airwaves, V has to escape from the BTN tv station, surrounded by an army of police officers.

---

Does these means that he will never will post under the Merovignian handle again?. --Moctezuma 23:26, 22 September 2006 (CDT)

I don't think this line of discussion is particularly relevant. --CalculatinAvatar^(C-T) 00:08, 23 September 2006 (CDT)

I recieved the following email from Merv requesting I add the following to this page to clear a few things up: --Mercifull ^{(Talk/Contribs)} 12:59, 25 September 2006 (CDT)

If you go here to my user talk page here: http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/User_talk:The_Merovingian#Name_Change you can see that I private messaged Steelviper, telling him to announce on my user talk page that I was changing my name from "The Merovingian" to "V", over 2 weeks ago. This was already publicly announced. Within the same announcement (see the link) I made it clear that this isn't a case of me creating a new clone account, as so many have in the past. I private messaged the Administrators and asked them to change my name to "V". One-character names are hard for their bboard code to handle, that's why you're not allowed to use them (they physically can't be done) but the Admins were very nice and put in the technical work that allowed me to get the one-letter monicker, "V".

As soon as my "V" account went active, as planned, the Administrators retired my "The Merovingian" account. This is not like when someone gets repeatedly banned from Scifi and comes back using a different screename. I didn't get banned and didn't just make up a new account. I asked the Administrators and with their permission this name change was done.

I had announced it elsewhere, but for the sake of clarity I edited my post on Scifi.com announcing the creation of my "V" account, adding a note to say that I asked the Administrators to change my name, and me "The Merovingian" account no longer exists.

By the way, please add a link to that post I made; when Moctezuma copy pasted it he didn't include links: it might confuse some of you at the end where I'm saying "remember remember" and "although the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation", etc,etc. Those were links to videos from "V for Vendetta" on YouTube that I posted, and those were the names of the clips (I think it might have been incomprehensible if you didn't realize I was making links to things not in the post).

Final Report

I am extremely disappointed that Shane and Joe's effort to create a comprehensive document of The Merovingian's recent behavior issues appears to have been abandoned. Has there been any progress on this? --Peter Farago 00:32, 29 September 2006 (CDT)

I understand the disappointment; I just haven't had the time to put together something. As of right now, I'm working six days a week (and it's not even holiday season yet) and have personal issues of my own to contend with. I also went on vacation two weeks ago, so I was pretty much focused on R&R, since this holiday season is looking like a tough one for me and my crew (I'm short staffed by one full timer and I don't have any seasonal help yet, if that gives you any idea). Also, Merv stated publicly on the SCIFI.com board three or so weeks ago that he wanted the issue dropped, so we respected his wishes in that regard and didn't press further. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 01:18, 29 September 2006 (CDT)

Regardless of Merv's wishes, it's important that we document the situation in order to avoid an ambiguous precedent. I presume Merv was banned for a good enough reason to justify bypassing the normal RFC process. The rest of us deserve to know what that reason was. --Peter Farago 01:33, 29 September 2006 (CDT)

I agree. So the document will be available by Monday or Tuesday at the latest. As you yourself realize, Merv is a special case for the wiki. His history with the wiki and its members has always been torrid; we've always tried to correct Merv's behavior when it reared its ugly head.

I don't want to start any ambiguous precedents myself; that ssaid, this is an executive decision, and I do have, ultimately, the right to ban. Merv has nearly scared off many contributors, who don't care to bring up the issue, and I will not tolerate this; I have grown weary of playing "peace keeper" when dealing with Merv and cleaning up after his actions. With Merv gone, I find that I have much more time to develop Battlestar Wiki as a resource, which is the ultimate goal. Those who have I talked to also agree with me on this.

The reason the off-wiki stuff is important is because Merv made it important. Otherwise, I would be in full agreement with you when you said that what people think of us personally off-wiki is irrelevant. Everyone has enemies. Merv just makes more of them, perhaps intentionally... Hell, he attempted to use us as a springboard to legitimize his defamation of Jim Iaccino and made you, myself, and the whole wiki look like fools in the process. He fancied himself as a prolific contributor who "practically runs Battlestar Wiki" and he went so far as to stick an unauthorized signature plate to the bottom of his SciFi posts, even after the institution of the BW:OR. He has a history both on and off-wiki of scaring off people via personal attacks. He even did this roughly 30 days after I instituted the banning, using Asperger's Syndrome as an insult, which sickens me on a pesonal level as I myself am a functional autistic with Apsergers. (A fact I reveal to very few, since it's really no one's business.)

As for the RFC process, Merv has a history of gaming things. Take a look at his previous RFCs (notably his first two), which he attempted to recruit people to vote in his favor -- this gaming lead to my unilateral change to dismiss all votes for people who have had accounts for one month. Remember this? I certainly do. (All this recruiting, incluidng recruiting people to defend him after the ban here, will be included in the document.) I will heavily stress that Requests for Comment are not a banning mechanism either: it is a means of identifying a problem and finding a solution. A near perfect example of this is the RFC on Shane, which fixed a problem you yourself had regarding his contributions, and resulted in the creation of a successful meachism in the form of the Think Tank.

Ultimately, we've already have had an unfiled RFC on him; we knew his behavior, we knew the treatment, and he duped us with good behavior on wiki while using bad behavior on the outside (with our name attached). And he scared off people on-wiki doing so, which was the last straw for me as the legal point of contact and operator of Battlestar Wiki. Scaring off people due to horrid behavior is, by me, wholly unacceptable and it is a bannable offense. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate} 20:04, 30 September 2006 (CDT)

I appreciate the points that Joe made, but especially the liability issue. The philosophy of a wiki doesn't protect anyone legalally. Personal attacks are easily documented here since nothing is truly removed, and the last thing anyone here wants is to be sued for libel since this is less of a personal document but intended as a reference. Note the recent tainted bio on Wikipedia that got the place far too much and the wrong type of publicity. --Spencerian 21:55, 30 September 2006 (CDT)

For the record, I have forgotten none of Merv's past behavioral issues, and I am on the record as one of his staunchest critics during his earlier time here. It was my genuine impression that he had fully addressed his hostile tendencies, which was the basis for my RFA in July. The notion that he would return to his previous ways is not at all beyond my ability to imagine, but because his behavior here had been exemplary up to the time of his dismissal, and I was neither privy to nor interested in his off-wiki activities, I have no way of evaluating the merits of your executive action until some sort of formal statement is issued. Until then, I feel that I still owe Merv the benefit of the doubt, and the consequent lack of closure is unsettling to me. --Peter Farago 22:56, 30 September 2006 (CDT)