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| {{archive-header | | {{Template:Archive-bot |
| | archivenumber = 01 | | |maxarchivesize = 32K |
| | number = 1 | | |counter = 3 |
| | start = April 2, 2005 | | |algo = old(5d) |
| | end = January 23, 2006 | | |archive = Talk:Humanoid Cylon/Archive%(counter)d |
| | items = {{archive-item|01|12 Cylon or 12 Humano-Cylon models?}} {{archive-item|01|Same, yet Different?}} {{archive-item|01|Origin of the Term "Humano-Cylon"?}} {{archive-item|01|Hybrids/Sharon's daughter article?}} {{archive-item|01|Order of Models}} {{archive-item|01|Re: Adama and Gaeta being ruled out as "Humano-Cylons"}} {{archive-item|01|Ellen Tigh}} {{archive-item|01|Cylon Series Revision}} {{archive-item|01|Did Boomer really know the count of infiltrators}} {{archive-item|end=Y|01|List of people who are ruled out as Cylons?}}
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| == Replacement and retirement of article title == | | == The Final Cylon, Conception and Prophecy == |
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| :''This discussion's origin originated in [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions#Replacement and retirement of the term "Humano-Cylon"|the Standards and Conventions talk page]], where you can find the original content.'' | | :"The missing 3 will give you the five who come from the home of the thirteenth" |
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| Per the discussion in the above link, I plan to move this article to [[Cylon agent]], as it is the most commonly used term to describe the humanoid Cylon models. "Humano-Cylon" will redirect here, and we will need to scour for other terms to redirect as well. This name is sufficiently canonical that it is unlikely that further debate is required. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:58, 14 February 2006 (EST)
| | The human/cylon child hera obviously has a central role in the series. This is evidenced by her prescence in the opera house, 6 and baltar's delusion that the child is theirs, and the desire of both the human's and the cylons to retain possession of the child. Ill avoid discussing the the childs intended representation as the next evolutionary step in mankinds developement in order to emphasize a few overlooked facts. Conception has eluded the cylons until hera's birth. They can build machines, but they cannot create life. This leaves them unable to fufill the Cylon God's law to be fruitfull and multiply, i.e. procreate. If they cannot concieve they remain outside their god's will. |
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| :Go for it. Though with an article title of "Cylon agent", it would be great to have a screen capture of the file on Laura's desk that has that wording on it. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:04, 14 February 2006 (EST) | | ::A. HERA - is the product of a female cylon (sharon) and a male human (helo) thus estalishing that conception is possiblewith a couple composed of these constituient parts. |
| | ::B. NICK- is the product of a male cylon (tyrol) and a female human (cally) validating this type of conception is possible. |
| | ::C. BABY6 - is the product of a male cylon and a female cylon the last remaining combination and supposedly not possible. (is it tighs love for ellen a human that enables this conception ?) |
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| :I may just spend $2 on iTunes to get just that. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:14, 14 February 2006 (EST)
| | However, back to the puzzle the missing 3 (Hera , Nick, Baby6) are 3 misssing babies will give you the five; so there must be a relationship here to the final five |
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| ::Move completed; no Big Thang. Summary subarticle in Cylon series pages also updated. Please update any pages for old terminology when appropriate. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:33, 14 February 2006 (EST)
| | TIGH....parent |
| | TYROL......parent |
| | Tory....hid baby hera at roslins direction |
| | Sam.......I could use help on him |
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| : Am I right in saying that all references to Humano-Cylon should be changed to Cylon agent> --[[User:Grafix|Grafix]] 08:12, 6 March 2006 (CST)
| | which leaves only 1 who has to be related in some way to the hybrid babies.....and which im keeping to myself....the baby's are the clue see if you can piece it together {{unsigned|Richnpoor}} |
| ::That's correct. We're going with "Cylon agent" since the only evidence indicating "Humano-Cylon" (see below) may have been doctored by the Cylons to throw us off... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:19, 6 March 2006 (CST)
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| :::Just to clarify; they made the picture below as a joke. Really, we discussed it on our Conventions page, and "human-cylon" seemed too much like describing the Hybrid, and hasn't gained much outside use, so we opted for something else. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 14:05, 6 March 2006 (CST) | | == Mechanical humanoid Cylons == |
| | How should we handle the mechanical humanoid Cylons from Caprica? Should we create a separate article for them, or should we give them a section in this article? -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 22:22, 25 August 2008 (UTC) |
| | :An own article might be warranted. We'll see when it airs. I don't think we should put them together with the modern humanoid Cylons. From what I read so far, they are more like machines, possibly with some biological components. But not ''humanoid''. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:26, 26 August 2008 (UTC) |
| | ::[[Zoe Graystone|Zoe-R]] looks completely human in the Caprica trailer. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 01:44, 27 August 2008 (UTC) |
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| == Known Cylon Agents == | | == Final Five == |
| That pic is AWESOME! It fits the section so well that I would normally suspect that it had been photoshopped (if I hadn't already seen it in the show). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 17:00, 15 February 2006 (EST)
| | Should the Final Five section of the article be edited to match the layout of the Significant Seven part? To me personally it makes sense, simply for neatness and a better flow for the article. My proposed change is that each Final Five Cylon would have a subheading, picture and short blurb ala the Significant Seven. Instead of having the current subheading "The Final Cylon Model" we'd have "Samuel Anders", "Tory Foster", "Ellen Tigh", "Saul Tigh" and "Galen Tyrol" (I've went by alphabetical surname). Thoughts? -- [[User:Joveus|Joveus]] 08:37, 22 January 2009 (UTC) |
| :Perhaps you moved the article too soon...
| | :I couldn't agree more. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:45, 22 January 2009 (UTC) |
| :I'll likely delete this image soon. I just had the idea of Photoshopping the folder after the preceding post. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 18:19, 15 February 2006 (EST) | | ::Well I've made the changes. I've also removed the "Thirteenth Cylon" bit because nothing has really been said about it in the series. However I think that might turn up on "A Disquiet Follows My Soul" tonight so maybe it'll come back. The article is 40kb now, and apparantly some browsers have difficulty supporting over 32kb. -- [[User:Joveus|Joveus]] 07:59, 23 January 2009 (UTC) |
| :Photoshop: Suitable tool, or instrument of Satan? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:37, 15 February 2006 (EST) | |
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| == Naming Convention ==
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| As of "[[Downloaded]]" we now finally know some other Model numbers besides Number Six: "D'anna Biers" is '''Number Three''', "Aaron Doral" is '''Number Five''', and "Sharon 'Boomer' Valerii" is '''Number Eight'''.
| | I removed the sentence ''"Their bodies at the time of the First Cylon War and the Fall of the Twelve Colonies are not their original bodies, which were destroyed by the nuclear warfare on Earth."'' as [[The Plan]] reveals this to be false. --[[User:Lord Wolfe|Lord Wolfe]] 03:54, 25 January 2011 (UTC) |
| | :No, it doesn't. Were you thinking the bodies in the tanks were their originals? They aren't. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 05:25, 25 January 2011 (UTC) |
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| In light of this, should we change the title of some, or all, of their character articles to read "Number Three", etc. like for Number Six? Because apparently, among themselves the Cylons never actually use the fake human names some used as spys, or indeed refer to themselves by name at all. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 02:59, 25 February 2006 (EST)
| | == Significant Eight and Final Five? == |
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| I would think that the unfortunately named Number Two is a pretty thankless job. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:00, 25 February 2006 (EST) | | Personally, I always thought "Significant Seven" and "Final Five" were a little too cute, and changing it to "Significant Eight" is simply grating. Now that we know the full difference between the two sets, maybe we can use more appropriate descriptors, say, "Colonial Cylons" for the Seven/Eight, and "Terran Cylons" for the Five. -- [[User:David cgc|David cgc]] 13:01, 15 February 2009 (UTC) |
| | *"Significant Seven" is a term coined by RDM himself. Apparently that's what the writers call them. -- [[User:Troyian|Troyian]] 13:57, 15 February 2009 (UTC) |
| | :Indeed, but Significant Eight is a silly term now that they've added another. They are the humanoid Cylons made by the final five if you want to get descriptive, or the ones made near the twelve colonies. Can't call them "The Eight" as that might mean that model.--[[User:Bradtem|bradtem]] 04:58, 16 February 2009 (UTC) |
| | **I think we should keep the titles "Significant Seven" and "Final Five", and just mention the Daniel & the Sevens within the section of the Significant Seven regardless of the fact that there are techincally eight. The fact is that they AREN'T the "significant eight", as only seven of them are significant, and although we should definitely reference the Daniels they are, at least as a model and probably even the one, not present in the story or in the Cylon society at all. -[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 04:37, 18 February 2009 (UTC) |
| | :::Is catchy alliteration that much more important than accuracy? I say go with "The Eight", or maybe "Colonial Cylons" (the Eight) vs. "Earth Cylons" or "Terran Cylons" (the Five). --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 07:16, 18 February 2009 (UTC) |
| | :Significant Seven is a semi-official nickname and Significant Eight is the most logical extrapolation to cover eight models, so I vote for Significant Eight most definitively. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 07:43, 18 February 2009 (UTC) |
| | :The Significant Seven are the cylons covered by Baltar/Sixes conversation on the base ship after New Caprica. Daniel can not be counted as part of the significant SEVEN. Daniel's place in the continuity is minimal but great enough to be just called the 7th or plain Daniel. |
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| :Yes, where those numbers are known. I broached the subject on [[Talk:Sharon Valerii]] and am currently awaiting a little more feedback before we go ahead with the move. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:07, 25 February 2006 (EST)
| | == Zoe == |
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| Do the Cylons tend to look out for Number One? [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 03:09, 25 February 2006 (EST)
| | Shouldn't Zoe Graystone be mentioned here somewhere? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 23:24, 26 February 2011 (UTC) |
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| Number One is not a number, he is a man. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:10, 25 February 2006 (EST)
| | : No, because she's not a humanoid Cylon. Technically, she's not even a skin-job, she's more of an android with biological components. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 00:03, 27 February 2011 (UTC) |
| | | :: She can be mentioned in a development-history kind of sense. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 01:12, 27 February 2011 (UTC) |
| :A free man? [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 03:24, 25 February 2006 (EST)
| | ::: Yeah, that's what I meant. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] |
| | | ::: I guess it could be mentioned in that light. Note that the technology needed to create the skinjobs was from the Final Five / 13th Colony, not really developed from Caprica. (They attempted to do it on their own, but ended up with the hybrids.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 17:48, 27 February 2011 (UTC) |
| ::I agree with changing the title of ALL articles referring to the mainstream model, making two new for D'anna and Aaron (the media models) like we did for the sharons and sixes.--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 25 February 2006 | |
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| When did "we" start calling them "Galactica-Boomer", "Caprica-Boomer", "Pegasus-Six", etc? You see, Televesionwithoutpity.com does make up and popularize terms like this....but I'm not sure if they STARTED using it, or if they TOOK UP using it from some reviewer or the messageboards. I seriously think this is one of those Stand Alone Complex things; we all just more or less independently, from the grassroots up, got the idea to do that. Anyone? --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 04:49, 25 February 2006 (EST)
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| :Pretty much. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:03, 25 February 2006 (EST)
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| ::I generally compel the proper use of "Boomer" to the Galactica model only, as she is the copy that actually served. ''No one'' in episodes have called the Caprica copy by that name, and things are confusing enough. "Caprica-Valerii" or "Galactica-Valerii" (or Boomer) is better. Otherwise, yes, we have to make things up until we get an official term, but we should be consistent and precise about it. ''Never'' use Sharon in any context--use of character first names only is against wiki convention in episode summaries. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:19, 25 February 2006 (EST)
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| :::Actually, Baltar called Caprica-Sharon "Boomer" at the end of Home, part 2. But what does he know?--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:55, 9 March 2006 (EST)
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| == Question: a Cylon agent transfers its consciousness... ==
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| I just started watching BSG about a week ago and im only part way through season 2, but I'm thinking isn't there a way for the Galactica crew to stop the cylon agents they kill from transmiting their consciousness? Cant they put the agent in a room with thick metal walls to stop the signal, or put their bodies into a woodchipper, or something similar, so whatever system in the body that transmits will be destroyed? In season one they just tossed the agent out an airlock, they didn't even try to stop him. I guess they really haven't explained yet how it is even possible for the agent's body to come up with enough energy to transmit their entire consciousness in an undetectable signal instantly across several light years. Maybe they'll get to it in a future episode, including the ones I haven't seen yet. Right now, its very magical fairies. --[[User:Bp|Bp]] 17:07, 9 March 2006 (CST)
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| : It comes up a bit later. Specifically, right after the mid-season cliff-hanger of Season 2. Not ''all'' your questions will be answered, but it becomes less magical. *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:09, 10 March 2006 (CST)
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| == Grace Park Reveals Cylon Secrets.... ==
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| MediaBlvd's interview with Grace Park was releasd in the full today, revealing a few more things about the nature of the Cylons that had not been released before. A lot of things are Park's own point of view, but she does mention a few interesting facts she read in the "Cylon Handout". Some of these facts include:
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| :" Because Cylons were created in the form of humans, and humans were created in God’s image, and Cylons want to be close to God, they can actually choose - but some models more likely than others tend to eat rather than just taking in nutrients. We just learned all this, I didn’t even know it, but taking in nutrients, I think through the skin"
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| :"There would be specific ports in the Cylon base ship that they could do this, and they can also do that with information."
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| :"- it wasn’t a very specific jack, like your phone jack in the wall. Nothing like that in her arm."
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| :"A little bit of both of that. Within one model, the different bodies can share memories, but within that model only. Now I use the words ‘CAN share memories,’ because it’s not like they all automatically share them. I’m under the understanding that you can choose to upload, and you can choose to download information."
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| :"- that the Cylons that we’ve known so far are programmed not even to think about the last five."
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| These are the actual facts she mentions, amidst her opinions, but what I posted were the solid facts. The last one had already been mentioned before, but this comment clarified that it's not that they don't know who they are, they just don't think about them.
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| There are also some other interesting tidbits in there (such as why exactly the Naked Sharons let themeselves die) which may help other articles.
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| I wanted to ask before posting any of this information, it's all solid and concise, but should we nonetheless abstain from putting in the bits we got (because we have nothing else and it would prove to be tantalizing). I think we should put it in, since they are actual facts from the new "Cylon Bible", but I wanted to pass it here so that you can judge on where to put them and how to word them. (Cuz I suck at actually adding it on the article, so I'd rather share the info and let someone else do the fine tuning on the article itself)
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| For the full interview: http://www.mediablvd.com/magazine/Magazine-Home/MBMag_20060420145.html
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| --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 17:22 09 May 2006
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| :That's kind of how I always rationalized they must share info; not between models, not a hive mind, they CAN but don't alaways. This "nutrient bath" thing is new and intruiging though. "This form brings us closer to God"; yeah I was already theorizing on this after that comment in KLG II that that's why they wanted to appear humanlike. Anyway, great to get some more or less confirmation on those musings/speculation. ***I don't know why, but some people treated it as a "oh my God, massive spoiler" that the 7 known Cylon models might not consciously think of who the unrevealed ones are. I mean, it doesn't actually affect the plot or ANY of our speculation so far; always assumed they had some sort of saftey feature like that for secrecy. '''I wonder: was this "Cylon Bible" RECENTLY written?''' The [[Series Bible]] was written in the break between the Miniseries and season one. Of course, they could have had these Cylon points as running ideas in the writer's room, but is this new, written down 10 page-ish long "Cylon Bible" something new she got? Context. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 21:26, 9 May 2006 (CDT)
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| ::It seems the series bible did not containt detailed information on the Cylon Characters beyond the basics, the new bible is specifically made for Cylons I think, probably detailing some history, both personal and such, and the kind of things that may help an actor understand who/what they are playing.
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| Also, this nutrient bath may be the reason we saw the Sharons naked in KLG2, rather than the Cylons being nudists., and maybe that's also why that part of the Basestar is organic, because it feeds the Ships and the Agents. Guess we'll know in Season 3 --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]]
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| :::Well I always thought they were naked just because they were "fresh off the assembly line" or "in storage" or whatever; like Terminator. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 16:09, 10 May 2006 (CDT)
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| ::::Maybe, but with the Resurrection Ship.... --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]]10 May 2006
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| So wouldn't the Grace Park interview indicate that the evidence "against" Baltar being a Cylon presented in Downloaded is pretty much bupkis? If the agents arent supposed to think of him as an agent, they'd call him a human. In fact, Baltar's behavior is so selfish it borders on cliche. It would seem to me that he would fit the "selfish asshole" archetype of humanity pretty damned well. --[[User:Number Thirteen|Number Thirteen]] 01:04, 12 October 2006 (CDT)
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| == telepathic abilities ==
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| When Sharon met here "sisters" in the basestar, she could hear their voices. Could that mean, that she has telepathic abilities? Or possibly a kind of relaying made this possible? -- [[User:Tirkon|Tirkon]] 12:06, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
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| :Hi, Tirkon. We really don't have any information into the actual manner in which agents transfer low level data (specifically, their memories). They aren't like the Borg; they haven't a collective consciousness. For Boomer to "hear" their voices may suggest that she (as a sleeper) was hearing this low level data transfer for the first time, and being on a basestar may have exacerbated this ability. Agents very likely share data from a collective knowledgebase (since models of the same kind seem to know much of what another model knows, to a point). Since Cylon agents are still constructs, the concept of telepathic abilities suggest implausible things that attribute more biological (even spiritual) concepts to these constructs that probably don't apply; a machine can definitely transmit and receive data (something proven in "Downloaded") so this is the best way to consider Boomer's realization, in my opinion. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:22, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
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| == humanoid cylons stronger than humans ==
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| I think, it is confirmed, that the humanoid cylons are stronger than humans. I.e. confirmed by the fights Starbuck-Number Six, Starbuck-Leoben and William Adama-Leoben. In particular during the fight Starbuck-Number Six Six throws Starbuck as hard as a human never could. During "Downloaded" Six slays Number Three with a huge piece of concrete, which never could be handled so easy by a human. And this piece must have bean very heavy, because the head of Number Three was mud after that. -- [[User:Tirkon|Tirkon]] 12:43, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
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| :That's generally true. While their bodies are still just as vulnerable to injury as a human body, their strength is definitely greater, although we can't state by how much. We can assume that they are strong enough to pick up a human of similar size, but are not strong enough to bend steel bars (otherwise captured agents could escape their cages). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:57, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
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| ::''>We can assume that they are strong enough to pick up a human of similar size'' ... and throw it about four meters. -- [[User:Tirkon|Tirkon]] 13:13, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
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| :::And there seems to be a little disaccord. If one is strong enough for doing that, he also must be heavy enough for doing that (balance weight). That is opposite to the sex between Baltar and Six, when Six was lying on him (the read vertebral column in miniseries). -- [[User:Tirkon|Tirkon]] 13:39, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
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| == humanoid cylons = agents? ==
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| You always talk here from the humoid cylons as agents. Is that realy true? Are they ALL!! agents? Possibly the word "agent" does not have the same meaning in Englisch and German. -- [[User:Tirkon|Tirkon]] 12:32, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
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| :The term "Cylon Agent" came [[:Image:Cylonagentdossier.jpg|from the show]]. See the [[Cylon_agent#_note-name|name note]] at the bottom of the article. So it's mostly a matter of trying to be "canonical" than trying to imply any sort of affiliation or loyalty. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:50, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
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| ::Aaaaaah! Thanks for that claricifation. :o) In the german Battlestar version the term "agent" is not as common. German Wikipedia points out a difference between the english and german use of term "agent". Thus this could be a matter for that. Further the view of some cylons ("the heros in "Download") has changed. Thus in german Battlestar Wiki I have used "humanoid cylon" instead of "cylon agent". And with you comment I am safe, that this dicision was adequate. Sorry for cannot beeing as precise as I would. But I am not a native english speaker. -- [[User:Tirkon|Tirkon]] 13:23, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
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| :::Maybe its just me but i always loved the term [[Humano-Cylon]] ^_^ --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 13:30, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
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| :::Not a problem! Looks like everything worked out. Also, bear in mind that the standards and conventions of the particular wiki should rule for its articles. That is to say, the German Wiki's standards and conventions should govern the articles at the German wiki. Don't let the [[BW:SC|English version]] restrict you at all. As long as you're consistent with your own rules there the German reader/editor will have a more standard/uniform experience. (Though you may want to update [[:de:Battlestar Wiki:Standards und Konventionen|that page ]] once you've established new conventions). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:34, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
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| ::::''>want to update that page'' At present we are just two translaters. And we are still going to built up the structere and translate the episodes and the most important characters. At this state such conventions are not the point. ;o) And the human cylons was until now the only point, what was a little problematic for me. Thus I wanted discuss this with the well-versed people here. And this was helpful :o) -- [[User:Tirkon|Tirkon]] 13:55, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
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| == Unseen cylon agent (miniseries) ==
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| In the miniseries, Number Six mentions to Baltar that she is meeting someone (26:35 into the miniseries) when they are walking in public prior to the attack. She leaves Baltar and immediately meets with an unseen person (27:12), remarking "It's about time, wondered when you'd get here". This person can only be a cylon - but they never appear on screen. Who could it be?
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| --[[User:Cfuxe|cfuse]] 06:48, 18 September 2006 (CDT)
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| : Anyone. It could also be just another very human bloke Six had contact with during her time on Caprica. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 10:10, 18 September 2006 (CDT)
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| == Cylon naming and instancing ==
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| Cylons agents (including sleeper agents) appear to be able to distinguish different instances of the same cylon model from one and other without any difficulty. In Downloaded, 'Sharon' seems to have no difficulty in identifying individual cylons apart, despite the fact that all cylons of a given model are visually identical. In addition, she is admonished for using her name because it is a vestige of her human identity and presumably redundant in cylon society.
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| --[[User:Cfuxe|cfuse]] 06:57, 18 September 2006 (CDT) | |
| : Honestly, we don't know how they do it, and I doubt that it'll ever be explained in the series. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 10:13, 18 September 2006 (CDT) | |
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| == Centurions ==
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| It's been added that Cylon Centurions can't tell the difference between copies of the same model, but that's not what Adama said. He said that they can't tell one humanoid Cylon (ex: Sharon) apart from any other humanoid Cylon. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:51, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
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| == A word about Number Three ==
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| The entry about Number Three says, that <i>of all the Cylon agent models revealed to viewers, the Colonials are not yet aware that D'anna Biers is a Cylon agent as of the season two finale, "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II."</i><br>
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| Oh, c'mon. In "Downloaded" D'Anna, along with other Cylons, was clearly seen by Samuel Anders. In "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I" Anders arrives on Galactica - did you think that he hasn't told the others about what he saw on Caprica? The moment Anders was rescued by Starbuck&Co., the true identity of D'Anna was no longer a secret (hence her presence on New Caprica).-- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 17:29, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
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| :Hi, Spike. Aside from the article now being out of date, the specific clarification you're missing is "of all the Cylon agents revealed to viewers, the ''members of [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]]'' are not aware that D'anna Biers is a Cylon as of "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II."" ''Galactica's'' members and her Fleet may still be unaware that the one named D'Anna is a Cylon (but has likely received intel from their Raptor deployments in Season 3). Anders (although a Colonial) was not part of the Fleet until the end of LDYB and may have not seen the documentary that Biers created, thus not being able to inform the Fleet of yet another Cylon. It is likely that he does inform them; we as viewers aren't enlightened to this until the obvious events on New Caprica where all known agents are revealed to them. (Please be sure to sign your comments; place a couple of dashes and four tilde symbols (~). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:32, 17 October 2006 (CDT) | |
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| == Cylons as the Lords of Kobol ==
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| Given the 12 models of Cylon Agents, it seems possible that they represent the 12 Lords of Kobol. Many of the models seem to have traits associated with the Olympians. I’m not suggesting that the Cylons actually are the gods themselves, but copies of the gods. They may or may not know that they represent the gods. A list of the Olympians matches fairly well with what we know about some of the Cylons. (In particular, the Number 6 / Aphrodite connection is almost undeniable.) Some agents who we know less about (Simon, Cavil) are a looser fit.
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| '''Poseidon''', God of the Sea. Holds influence among the Olympians, but is greedy and quarrelsome. - Cavil? ||
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| '''Hades''', God of the Underworld. Unpitying, always in control of his domain. Abducted a woman to be his wife – Leoben ||
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| '''Hera''', Zeus’s wife. Holds great influence, constantly schemes. - Number 3 ||
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| '''Ares''', God of War. A brutal murderer, but also a coward. - Number 5 ||
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| '''Athena'''. A fierce soldier and protector of her people. - Number 8 ||
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| '''Aphrodite''', Goddess of Beauty. Holds great power over men. - Number 6 ||
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| '''Hephaestus''', God of the Forge. Skills are mental, and creation, not a fighter. - Simon
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| This leaves Zeus, Hestia, Apollo, Hermes, and Artemis as the remaining unknown Cylons. Does anyone else think there may be something to this, or have better fits for some agents? --[[User:PhoenixDreams|PhoenixDreams]] 14:24, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
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| : I've definitely considered the possibility that the Cylon Models and the Lords of Kobol are intimately connected for quite a while. The problem always was that the Greek Pantheon did not neatly end up with a dozen gods, so there was a fair amount of guess work for the what the remaining Lords of Kobol were. For example, I doubt Hestia will be one of them: she's a fairly obscure goddess. Demeter or Dionysus are more likely candidates.
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| : I really like some of the parallels you've come up with though. Aphrodite=Six was always the fairly obvious one, and I've considered Sharon as Athena. I quite like the parallels between Leoben and Hades. All of the other parallels you've come up with work. It's just that without knowing all of the Lords of Kobol and all of the models, and what roles they will ultimately play, it's hard to say exactly how everyone fits. Sure, at the moment Number Six seems to obviously be the Aphrodite of the Cylons, but with her obsession with childbirth, I sometimes wonder if she's destined to be Artemis. Not that she's especially virginal. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 14:52, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
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| They could be the 12 Gods of Kobol, or one for each of the 12 Colonies, which then of course suggests there may be a 13th secret model to correspond to Earth. [[User:Yaneh|Yaneh]] 13:28, 15 November 2006 (EST) | |
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| == The 5 remaining agents ==
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| I think it is apparent that the function of the 5 remaining agents is different from the function of the 7 known agents (my analysis) since the 7 seem to be making decisions on both New Caprica and on the basestar about Baltar and the other 5 are not. Additionally, we have Aaron Douglas's speculation on their status and there is probably other evidence but I honestly haven't done any research on that. Is there enough beef behind this line of reasoning to say that it's not speculation on my part and is worthy of putting SOMETHING on the article page? --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 21:18, 29 October 2006 (CST)
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| :It's certainly speculation, and moreover, it's based on spoilers. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:25, 29 October 2006 (CST)
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| == Possibilities ==
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| I wonder if there is a non-humanoid sapient Cylon we haven't seen yet, maybe something too large to effectively move around (perhaps stuck on the Cylon homeworld that the Cylons disappeared to after the first Cylon war). It could explain a number of things, including how the Cylon agents came into being -- perhaps they are a sort of iPod version of the non-humanoid sapient Cylons, fitting a technological sapience into a more convenient humanoid form.
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| Centurions themselves nor their ships could not have been all there was to the Cylons in the days of the first Cylon war -- how could they rebel? They simply follow orders and carry them out. There must have been *something* or *someone* in those days to alter their programming if not have some sort of control seizure to make them rebel against the human Colonials. It may have originally been some sort of central server-like system.
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| Its just a wild idea, and probably not what the writers have in mind, but something like it could explain some of the seeming inconsistencies and plot holes. Something completely different could also work, I suppose. The Centurions certainly don't seem to have true sapience, and I doubt they have any religious conceptions. --[[User:Itsua|Itsua]] 08:38, 9 November 2006 (CST)
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| : There's a lot we don't know about the Cylons past. However, it's been hinted at that the old Centurions had artifical intelligence, which allowed them to think independently. The new Cylon Centurions, however, don't have a true artificial intelligence since the Cylons themselves didn't want their own machines to rebel against them (this is established in "[[Precipice]]", by the way). -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 09:01, 9 November 2006 (CST)
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| ::It seems improbable that the Cylons were originally ''just'' Centurions whom later created the Agents, unless the original Centurions were just as sapient (if not moreso) as the Agents. I'm hoping/guessing the origin of the Agents will be explored in future episodes, and perhaps Caprica will explain more of the Cylon origins. --[[User:Itsua|Itsua]] 06:10, 11 November 2006 (CST)
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| :::I got the distinct impression that the Centurions were originally true AIs and created the skinjobs over intermediate stages like the Raiders and Hybrids. But then the skinjobs - in a nice parallel to humanity - enslaved the Centurions and stripped them off most of their intelligence. As said all that is touched on in "Precipice" --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:22, 11 November 2006 (CST)
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| == Major Revision ==
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| I've made heavy reorganization and concisions to this article to make it easier to discern the nature of these characters. I've removed data redundant with episode or character articles, and also removed a great deal of [[Battlestar Wiki:Fanwanking|fanwanking material]] that was introduced into the article. The article is still on the long side; further concision to reduce redundancies with other articles is appreciated. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:12, 10 November 2006 (CST)
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| == Origin of Cylon Agents ==
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| This article asserts, as fact, that the Cylon agents are the result of technological development by the previous Cylon models.
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| Is this conclusively established in the series so far?
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| I have suspected that the origin of the Cylon agents was likely the result of either a miraculous fluke or contact with another advanced intelligence — perhaps the Lords of Kobol, whatever the frak they were. Perhaps even God, though it seems unlikely that He would involve Himself in the affairs of the world in such a literal manner (if He exists at all, which is an open question).
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| If the Cylons have complete access to and understanding of the technology to create the agents, why are they limited to 12 models? It seems they should have the ability to create additional models whenever they want to, the same way that they created the first 12.
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| [[User:Capedia|Capedia]] 13:46, 22 November 2006 (CST)
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| :I don't think they want to create more models. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 19:04, 16 December 2006 (CST)
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| :Well, from what RDM said, the Cylons viewed humanity as only having twelve archetypes. There would need to be a serious change in Cylon society as a whole for ther(See: [[Cylon agent#Ron Moore elaborates on the twelve models]].)
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