Talk:Messengers/Archive 1

We should add some more specific examples of what the hallucinations have done. A picture of Internal-Baltar with Six would also be good.--Noneofyourbusiness 15:48, 14 March 2006 (EST)

"Most likely"

The article suggests that Six is "most likely" an actual, downloaded personality on a chip in his head. I disagree with this, in part because RDM himself has stated otherwise in his podcasts, but also because I think they've been very careful, for the most part, to leave the question balanced. Gaius Baltar is a genius. If Internal-Six is an hallucination, then he's officially a mad genius, but he's a genius, nonetheless. Almost all of his insights into Cylon motives, actions, and character can be explained simply by his being a genius with multiple personality disorder.

And example, from the miniseries: Six points out the device (later revealed to be a kind of transponder) on the underside of the DRADIS console. Baltar (like Gaeta, who admitted having seen it) has undoubtedly seen this device out of the corner of his eye the whole time he's been in CIC, and it is pretty obviously out of place with the rest of the ship's tech. A "normal" person would either ignore it (as Gaeta did, thinking it was part of the transformation of the ship into a museum) or start speculating silently to themselves what it might be and how it got there. The difference is that Baltar now has a dissociative personality that closely resembles his Cylon lover to talk these things through. Everything he knows or speculates that's related to the Cylons now comes from this split personality, because he's desperately trying to evade his own complicity.

In short, it's just as likely (if not more) that Baltar diagnosed himself correctly from the beginning. He's basically gone mad. And since he's not being treated, he will undoubtedly get worse before he gets better.--Uncle Mikey 14:41, 14 March 2006 (CST)

Clarified.--Noneofyourbusiness 16:19, 14 March 2006 (EST)

I think this page is redundant and should be removed.--The Merovingian 14:56, 14 March 2006 (CST)

Why? It discusses both Internal-Six and Internal-Baltar, who constitute a single phenomenon or two closely related phenomena, so it doesn't belong under either Number Six or Gaius Baltar. All the information from the Internal-Six section of the Six article has been removed and put here. --Noneofyourbusiness 16:26, 14 March (EST)

I disagree with Merv that it's redundant, but I do think a lot of it is speculative. We've been tightening the standards on speculation in episode articles, but I'm not certain what the standard is outside them.--Uncle Mikey 15:12, 14 March 2006 (CST)

Since little concrete is known about the hallucinations the page about them is of course full of speculation, but they're too important not to have a page. The changes in prevailing theories as new evidence airs is noted. I agree that episode articles should not be speculative. Also, most of this content was already on this site, it has merely been moved to this more appropriate page.--Noneofyourbusiness 16:46, 14 March 2006 (EST)

A fair point, and I'm not even sure I would have noticed the speculative aspects as worthy of mention until yesterday, when the policy for "Questions" in episode articles shifted. Now, tho', I'm sensitive to the question of which articles should be strictly encyclopedic and which can and should be more speculative. I'm not saying I'm certain this article should be heavily edited to strip out speculation. I'm saying I'm not certain either way.--Uncle Mikey 15:28, 14 March 2006 (CST)

It sounds like Uncle Mikey might be ripe for recruitment. --Steelviper 15:41, 14 March 2006 (CST)

Thou shalt not make a machine mind in the image of a human mind. Oh, wait, that's the Butlerian Jihad... :-D --Uncle Mikey 09:44, 15 March 2006 (CST)

Nonetheless, there are only two instances of this. Further, Baltar was definately a hallucination by Caprica-Six, clean and simple. Meanwhile, we still don't know what virtual Six is, but that goes on her own page.--The Merovingian 06:43, 15 March 2006 (CST)

Further, and this is my biggest arguement against this (practicality): most of the information here is actually cut and pasted from other arguements. The entire last paragraph is just taken from the virtual Six article.--The Merovingian 06:44, 15 March 2006 (CST)

I don't necessarily see that as an argument to eliminate this article. Having a single article that consolidates information about a particular topic is not a bad thing, and this topic is certainly one of wide interest.--Uncle Mikey 09:44, 15 March 2006 (CST)

Mikey you've only got two "hallucinations". It is hard to consolidate two things. --The Merovingian 13:38, 15 March 2006 (CST)