Talk:Small arms/Archive 1

I'll get some screen captures of some of these later, tonight or tomorrow. --Talos 16:14, 9 January 2007 (CST)

"POV" in terms of voice

While the article is informative, it's voiced "out-of-universe" and so reads more like a behind-the-scenes article of props than a description of what the weapon might be able to do based on its real-world counterpart or on-screen action. When I run into articles like this, I usually use a References section to move the behind-the-scenes comments or sources out of the way of the main text so that article reads better. Thoughts? --Spencerian 20:24, 9 January 2007 (CST)

Concur. Super-informative, but TONS of real world references. However... without the real world references, is there really much worth commenting on? "The Colonials use various pistols, rifles, and submachine guns, sometimes equipped with various accessories such as grenade launchers." That may be oversimplifying just a tad, but ultimately most of the notability of the small arms is the fact that they use some (particular) real world weapons (or at least props that look like real world weapons). Should there be a split between a "Small arms" article and a "behind the scenes" category "Weapons used in the Series" type article? However, as is stated in the opening paragraph, there's not much canon regarding the small arms, so the in-universe articl would be considerably smaller. --Steelviper 07:53, 10 January 2007 (CST)

SV gives my thoughts exactly, I support splitting it into two articles, a small realworld one, which won't have much. It'd have info on the explosive rounds and such, stuff we know. Then a "Weapons Used in Battlestar Galactica" or somesuch for the real-world gear. --Talos 11:01, 10 January 2007 (CST)

As said, the only thing this article has going for it, is what real-life weapons are used. There is really nothing else to say. Having two articles would be alright, even if one will be very short --Serenity 15:49, 10 January 2007 (CST)

Optionally, we can create a new article, "Props used in Battlestar Galactica". This would discuss the many real-life objects and their origin as this page does with weapons, and add these items. --Spencerian 15:58, 10 January 2007 (CST)

I don't know. Generally, it's a good idea, but the guns are relatively prominent in the series, so there is a lot of information about them. Maybe enough to warrant an own sub-article in addition to the other props. A way to seperate the "real-world" information a bit could be to create a "behind the scenes" tag like "silly" and "seperate continuity".

Alternatively, if an in-universe small arms section is pretty small, we could just keep that information on Weapons in the Re-imagined Series and add explosives and the RPG from "Exodus, Part I" to it. Then an own tiny article isn't needed and this one could be renamed/reworded to make out more "behind the scenes" --Serenity 08:33, 11 January 2007 (CST)

I like it. Small paragraph or two in "Weapons" for in-universe, rename/recatogorize/etc. this article to indicate behind the scenes. --Steelviper 08:49, 11 January 2007 (CST)

Sounds like it generates the same effect I'd prefer to keep the voices right. Let's do that. --Spencerian 09:55, 11 January 2007 (CST)

So the voices are telling you that's the way it should be done? (Just don't talk back to the voices, they won't put up with sass.) --Steelviper 10:02, 11 January 2007 (CST)

SA-80 comments

Are the issues surrounding the SA-80 rifle really relevant to this article? Aside from the fact that they are not entirely accurate (The current A2 version is seen as a marked improvement), these issues are not really important to someone's viewing or understanding of BSG.--Cohnee 05:53, 15 January 2007 (CST)

Right. I'll remove it --Serenity 07:32, 15 January 2007 (CST)

I've made a change to the SA80 comments from: SA-80s without the SUSAT sight are seen with the foresight and rear-sight/carry handle unfolded and in use To: SA-80s without the SUSAT sight have no aiming mechanism if the fore and rear iron-sights have not been fitted.

SA-80 fore and rear sights cannot be unfolded, they are slid and then bolted into place using a screw mechanism when the SUSAT is removed --

standard pistol picture requested

Does anyone have a really good picture of the standard Colonial pistol? Preferably the Miniseries/early Season 2 version, that was based on a revolver, before they switched to the FN Five-SeveN. I think it's the most "iconic" weapon on BSG and would be a good picture for the general weapons article too. I know there are pics out there of just the weapon, not really screencaps (and not even fan replicas). But the best I could find, is from "Fragged" where Crashdown threatens Cally and Tyrols fires at the Centurions. If nothing turns up I'll use that, but just the pure weapon would be cool. --Serenity 14:04, 15 January 2007 (CST)

To be honest, I think it'd be best to have a pic of the pistol that's seen most often; ie, the Five-seveN. I know the LeMat version was seen thoughout the miniseries and season one, but I'm pretty sure, scene for scene, we've seen (not scene! :P ) the Five-seveN more often. Either way, I have a couple of caps of both kicking around, whatever we decide. Let me know :) -Madbrood 14:32, 15 January 2007 (CST)

There is already a pic of the Five-SeveN there (though if you want a better one look at "Torn"). I just thought it'd be nice to have both. And the "original" is still around in early Season 2 (such as "Valley of Darkness"). I think Apollo even used in "Resurrection Ship, Part I" when he was de-armed in the Raptor. --Serenity 14:39, 15 January 2007 (CST)

I can get one of the early pistol, there's a good shot in the Miniseries that should work. I'll keep an eye out for a better shot of the FNs too. --Talos 18:08, 15 January 2007 (CST)

Yeah, the Mini has some good scenes like when Boomer and Helo hold off the refugees at the Raptor. But all shots I found were very blurry. Guess I could I make my own ones, but I know there are good ones somewhere out there. And now that I think about it, Tyrol's pistol from "Fragged" is likely the semi-auto version as well. --Serenity 18:12, 15 January 2007 (CST)

There is an excellent side shot of the S1 pistol in "Resistance" when Helo wields the pistol and MP9. I'm not sure what the time code is, because I found the pic on bsgmedia.org's "Resistance" gallery. I'm sure someone with the Season 2.0 DVDs can get the shot. --Kregano 20:25, 19 January 2007 (EST)

Aye, I got a screen capture of that when I was getting Skorpion pics. My internet's screwy at the moment (first time I've been online in about 48 hours. I'll upload it when it all stabilizes. --Talos 19:43, 19 January 2007 (CST)

Excellent news. Can you get shots of the Resistance fighter weapons from that scene? I think Ander's pistol on "Resistance" had an underbarrel launcher too, but the only shot I've found is not very helpful. I think we need to get shots from S3 for the AK type rifle and the arms-cache from "Exodus, part 2". Shots of the Miniseries rifles would be great too. --Kregano 23:55, 19 January 2007 (EST)

Talos, do you mind posting the pistol pic? I see that there are new shots for the rifle, but not the pistol. I've looked at the arms cache scene and I only see a UMP and the AK clone there, so we don't need pics of that scene. Also, I think that we should have a Related Imagery page with 1 shot of each gun, so we don't clutter the page with pics. --Kregano 20:33, 4 February 2007 (EST)

Crap, forgot all about that, sorry, I'll go do get them now. --Talos 19:44, 4 February 2007 (CST)

Excellent. Looks good. And I agree that all further pictures should be added to the gallery --Serenity 10:44, 5 February 2007 (CST)

Thanks. What I'm thinking is that each section (pistol, rifle, etc) has a pic showing the most used one. The ones I'm looking at are: the two sidearms (pistol), the G-36K and Cx4 Storm (rifle), either the UMP or P-90 (SMG), and the Protecta (shotgun). The rest in the gallery. --Talos 10:56, 5 February 2007 (CST)

I agree with your idea Talos. You should put the G-36K in the gallery, since it was used for Lay Down Your Burdens and never seen since. The SMG picture now being used is perfect, so put the P90 in the gallery. Also, we should make a new section on this page for gallery discussion, since the pistol request was filled and this thing is getting a bit long. --Kregano 12:13, 5 February 2007 (EST)

Ammo analysis

Should we have a section about the various types of ammunition used by small arms? I'm asking because ammo in various episodes have different effects. For example, the explosive rounds in "Valley of Darkness", which might be 12 gauge flares, are only powerful enough to destroy a Centurion's head, while in "Home, part One" a 12 gauge explosive round from the Protecta shotgun causes a large explosion that totally destroys the Centurion. Also Helo's pistol rounds during the restaurant fight scene, which went straight through the Centurion's head and the round he fired in the Miniseries, which have never been seen again. --Kregano 11:04, 21 January 2007 (EST)

This article is more for an out-of-universe comparison to real weapons. If you want to add something about the ammunition you should put it here: Weapons in the Re-imagined Series#Handheld weapons, because it's strictly in-universe. Though some of what you describe is the result of different Centurion armor. The ones who boarded the ship had heavier armor and thus needed explosive rounds. I already mentioned the HE rounds there, but some expansion doesn't hurt, as the section is very short at the moment. --Serenity 10:13, 21 January 2007 (CST)

Unknown bolt-action rifle identified

Accuracy Systems Ultimate 700 Sniper. I think that's the money gun. ;) Panther 09:44, 6 June 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for that, Panther. I had a look at the URL you posted up and I found it very interesting, especially in regards to the kind of stuff that can be used to modify both the Remington Model 700 bolt-action rifle and the Remington Model 7600/7615 series pump-action rifles (most of the gear for the Model 7600 and Model 7615 are legal in Australia). In fact, I might refer that URL to the my mates over on the Australian section of AssaultWeb.Net.

On another note, Panther. Did you look at the Choate Ultimate Sniper rifle stock that was used on the rifle in "Resistance"? From a closer look at the stock, it appears that the stock was modified to allow the use of detachable rifle magazines - something which is not commonly seen on the rifle stocks Choate Machine and Tool makes. Roughneck Jase 12:58pm, 16 June 2007 (AEST)

To be honest, I have not seen the episode in a while. I also don't know much about that stock because I haven't had a chance to play with one. One thing that is for sure is that that any stock for a Rem 700 has to leave an opening for the magazine floor-plate. I think that would give you enough room to install a QD mag action with no or little cutting away. Panther 19:53, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

Panther, I checked out a Winchester Model 70 rifle fitted with a Choate Ultimate Sniper rifle stock while I was visiting a gun shop up here in Brisbane back in 2006 and it was very interesting handling the rifle fitted with this rifle stock. If I ever got my hands on a Remington Model 700 or a Winchester Model 70, I would fit either one of these rifles with a Choate Ultimate Sniper stock and if the rifles had detachable magazines, I would modify the stock to accept detachable mags since Choate doesn't make any versions of the Ultimate Sniper that have wells for detachable magazines. Roughneck Jase 10:14pm, 25 January 2008 (AEST)

A Quick Question

Where did Moore say that the Miniseries/Season pistol was an exact replica of the Bladerunner pistol? The two look nothing alike, though they do share some characteristics. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kregano (talk • contribs).

I believe such comments were made in the commentary track for the Miniseries. (It's been a while since I've listened to it, so I'm just basing what I know form memory and don't have a timestamp.) -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate - Sanctuary Wiki — New} 21:19, 17 June 2007 (CDT)

Yeah, watching the final cut, it isn't an exact match. Maybe we should just say that they are similar, or that it was modeled after it. That it's on homage to the Blade Runner blaster is obvious however: [1] --Serenity 07:29, 25 January 2008 (CST)

Re-imagined Series definition: Battlestar Group ^{(TRS: "Water")}. It also doubles as an acronym for the television series itself.