Podcast:Maelstrom

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Act 2

RDM: And we're back. Really like this idea of Kara returning from the combat mission and then them finding no damage on the Viper. It's a really nice effective- there's this creep factor that moves into the show. Right here. Even more strongly, I think, than in the early- in the teaser one.

Terry: How many are we away from the finale? Two?

RDM: Three.

Terry: Three.

RDM: Three episodes to the finale.

Gun camera footage.

Now the way this particular show is struct-

Terry: -What is this?

RDM: This is them looking in the gun camera footage, trying to find the-

Terry: And why is she- 'cause she says it's not hers.

RDM: -the Raider.

Terry: 'Cause it's different from watch she saw?

RDM: Well, 'cause she's saying it's not what she saw. So she;s saying it must not be hers.

Terry: Oh.

RDM: A big difference between early drafts and the final show is that Starbuck made three trips into the nebula. There are really now only two trips left. There's the initial non-sighting of the Raider, as it were, then she spends the show dealing with that, and then she goes back at the end for the final. There was a third. There was a middle passage where she went into- went on a CAP patrol once more and was going by the nebula- or the clouds at the gas giant, and she saw the Raider, but instead of saying that she saw the Raider, in that version, she pretended like she had a hydraulic failure in her cockpit and ran away, and went back home, and faked having a problem. And this scene actually followed that. That she had- she was faking having a problem, and that's when Adama and Lee really started to say, "OK. What the hell are we gonna do about this?" Now in- during the pre-production process, I remember Nankin coming to me and saying, "I wanna cut- ," 'cause the scripts are always fuckin' long. And Nankin was saying, "I wanna cut the middle trip. I don't think you need it." And I was insistent. No, you have to have the middle trip. It's crucial. These things- I mean, there's this old saying in T- drama that things go in threes. You always try to make threesomes whenever possible, triangles. You're always having three beats to a story, etc., etc., etc. And so there's this thing about being three and I thought structurally you needed the third, the middle, beat to justify where we were going. And when all was said and done and he turned in his cut I had heard, through the grapevine, from editorial, that he had cut the middle- trip, and I told him, "Well, don't get fuckin' used to it, 'cause I'm gonna be puttin' that middle one back, because it works, and you need it." And then I saw the cut. And I was so blown away by the show-

Terry: We dedicate this-

RDM: -that I essentially said, "You don't need it." I sent Nankin an email and said, "You know what? You were right, and I was wrong, and you don't need the middle passage," and the show works just fine without it. And you're so emotionally invested in what we're doing and in the characters that there's plenty of action in the piece so you don't need to go into the center again.

Terry: I'm sorry. It just seemed appropriate at this moment to dedicate this show to Sarah.

RDM: Yes.

Terry: Sarah's a young woman who was- who posted regularly on the Scifi.com message board and she and her fiance were recently on vacation in Mexico and they were getting ready to be married, and they were in a car accident and were both killed. And a lot of people on the board are very saddened by that and- as are we. And we promised that we would put Sarah's picture up in this hall next season, in season four. So anyway, and we'd like to dedicate this to her.

RDM: This is for Sarah. We're very- we're very, very saddened to hear of that. Such a trag-

Terry: One of our own.

RDM: Yes, one of our own. It was a tragic loss, for everyone. And Sarah will be on that board next season.

I think this is a particularly effective that I'm really surprised we were able to pull off. This is one of those things that you talk about or write and you say that the wax drips and it forms the mandala on the floor, and then you're never able to pull it off. And this time, actually, they were able to pull it off, and it looks kinda cool.

Terry: Wow.

RDM: Another key difference in this version of the show, and the scripted version, that I also fought for a while and then relented, said, "No, you're right, and I'm wrong," was that Starbuck's last meeting with Adama was gonna be a very difficult one. There was originally a meeting with Laura, Adama, Starbuck, and I think Lee was there as well. And they were talking and there was some bit of interaction or body language between Adama and Laura that Starbuck was picking up on, and we were still talking at that point about playing out this, "Are they? Aren't they?" relationship between Laura and Adama. And maybe there was something going on. And what was happening? And Starbuck was-

Terry: Incoming. (?)

RDM: -figuring that out. And she said something in public, much to the shock of Adama. It was like, "Why don't you-" Oh yeah. The line was- she saw something between the two of them, and one of them had said something to the other, and Starbuck said, "Why don't you two get a room?" And Adama didn't say anything at the moment, and after the meeting was over he asked Starbuck to stay behind, and then he just laid into her. He just- I think he physically pushed her against the wall, and said, "What the fuck are doing? What, do you think this is? And you saying something like that-" And he was so angry at her. And he just went off on her and the idea was, that was the last thing that he had said to her. That it was gonna be after she was dead that the last words Adama had said to his surrogate daughter were these really awful angry things. And I think it was Nankin's note, I'm pretty sure it was Nankin who said, "You don't need that. It's ugly, and he doesn- I don't wanna play it." And they were all having troub- And eventually I relented and said, "OK. Fine. It doesn't have to be." And I realize that they were right. That you didn't- it wasn't- we didn't have to pile on. It was enough that Kara was gonna die. You didn't have to take the extra step and say, "Not only is she gonna die, and Adama's gonna feel that, but he's also gonna say something ugly to her as his last moment." That's a writer's device, in a way. It's not necessary that the last thing be truly ugly, as well.

Terry: And the actress playing Kara's mother, here's your trivia question. What-?

RDM: K. Wait. Oh, sorry, I thought we were at an act break.

Terry: -prime time television show was she a regular on?

RDM: What prime time television show was Kara's mother show once on?

Terry: Like in the seventies.

RDM: In the nineteen seventies.

Terry: Some of you weren't alive, so you're excused.

Act 3

RDM: And we're back. I didn't get the reference for a while either. It took me a while bef- I think- I don't think I ever did. I think you had to tell me who she- who she was.

Terry: I know who everybody is. And you never do.

RDM: So this- sequence here, again, of Lee going and talking to her, of her not being able to get back in the cockpit and finding excuses not to, this was all also colored by the fact that they had- she had gone into the nebula for a second time already. Or- I keep calling it the nebula. It's not a nebula. It's a gas giant. I'm sorry. It's a gas giant. It's really- I'm really fond of the fact that we've taken the Lee-Kara relationship to this point. That we had moved them through a relationship, with- they had been friends. They had been more than friends. Then they had been a lot less than friends. Now they're friends again, but is still fraided with a lot of meaning and a lot of subtext about what might have been and their- each of them having to deal with where they are, as opposed to where they wanted to be, but they're still-

Terry: You mean like real life?

RDM: Yeah! They're still friends. And it's still, like real life, you have complicated relationships with people that defy rational thought, and you would-

Terry: I've had a couple of those. Haven't you?

RDM: I know. All of my relationships have been very, very smart. I invent these kind of things. I imagine what it is to be in a fucked up relationship.

I like the fact, a lot, that Lee volunteers to be her wingman. Which is, if you know anything about fighters and fighter combat and- being the wingman is definitely the number two position, and for Lee to volunteer to Kara's wingman is- it's a fairly significant thing, and it's a nice- subtle point in the relationship and what she means to him.