Talk:The Passage/Archive 1

I cried

When I watched the episode tonight, I cried at the end. It was a really sad ending. If an episode makes me cry, that means it was really good. --Shane ^{(T - C - E)} 00:31, 9 December 2006 (CST)

I was just left in shock. What a way to die...and to do it knowingly while saving a civilian ship... Xenophon10k 07:46, 9 December 2006 (CST)

You weren't the only one, Shane. You weren't the only one. Note to Self: When an episode summary says "we'll learn more about a character in this episode," prepare for mourning. --Spencerian 08:42, 9 December 2006 (CST)

I love Kat, I also shed a tear. :'( --Mercifull ^{(Talk/Contribs)} 12:14, 9 December 2006 (CST)

Tether?

Why didn't Galactica just tether the Raptors to their ships? Or use the magnetic clamps that Raptors have to literally attach to the ships? They wouldn't lose any ships, it would save time, and be safer all at the same time. - Linaf 09:21, 9 December 2006 (CST)

Jumping is precise, but not that precise. We don't know if a Jump between tethered ships, if they didn't occur simultaneously, would be a fatal move, or do nothing. In any case, the intense heat and buffeting in the cloud would likely make a tether snap or melt and be worthless. Magnetic clamping might have been possible given that Vipers that perform combat landings hold themselves fast within Galactica. However, performing a Jump while outside of another ship (which is also Jumping) is probably a Bad Idea. --Spencerian 10:06, 9 December 2006 (CST)

Likely for the same reason Galactica has to close flight pods: Each ship's ftl drive is only capable of allowing it to jump, dragging a raptor along likely is no more possible the for galactica to jump with deployed flight pods. --Ghilz 21:07, 9 December 2006 (CST)

I'm sorry but this part of the story still doesn't make sense to me. Why did the raptors have to be outside of the ships to give them jump coordinates? If radiation would fry the civilian ship computers why not simply park a raptor in their landing bays and let their computers do the work.--Boonton 20:15, 9 December 2006 (CST)

Likely because the Raptor's sensors cant operate from inside a metal, radiation shielded landing bay... They werent designed for that type of use. Also, it may be very likely that many ships lack a landing bay, instead relying on airlocks to connect to other ships. --Ghilz 21:07, 9 December 2006 (CST)

It still doesn't make sense to me. Why not weld the raptor directly to the out hull of the civilian ships? If the rapter's computers are so well shielded why not just wrap the computers of the civilian ships in protective armour. Clearly the jump computers are small enough to be contained in a small rapter so the amount of material necessary to harden them couldn't be all that much

Simple answer: it wouldn't have been very dramatic from a storytelling point of view, would it? The fact that the civilian ships relied on the Raptors and their pilots- who, clearly, are fallible- increases the tension exponentially. It hits our characters that bit harder when ships are lost, because they feel it is their fault. By giving the civilian ships the same capabilities of the Raptors, you take away the whole point of having the episode :) --Madbrood 12:18, 10 December 2006 (CST)

Dramatic presentations aside, many civilian ships could have carried a Raptor in their cargo hull until after the first jump. Then they could launch their Raptor and make the second jump. Colonial One, a ship actually small enough to land in Galactica's landing bay, is shown with a Raptor in it's hull during the mini-series. Colonial One also rescued Apollo's Viper when he had an emergency.

Did Kat Die?

I know this is a stupid question but why did starbuck a picture of her in the memorial hall? Snorkel378

Yes, she died because she received a twice-fatal dose of radiation --Serenity 10:10, 9 December 2006 (CST)

Then WHy did Adama Still MAke Her CAG? WHo would make someone who is dead Be A CAG. And We never saw her die. snorkel378

It's glaringly obvious that she died. We didn't need to see her last breath to know it. She received two fatal doses. She was dying in sickbay. Kara gave her pills if she wanted to comitt suicide, because dying from radiation poisoning is extremly ugly.

The promotion is a honorary and morale thing. It was merely posthumous, but Apollo is still the acting CAG. Adama thought that Kat's leadership and bravery are a good example for the crew --Serenity 10:19, 9 December 2006 (CST)

Kat does die; there is no way for her to survive extreme radiation poisoning. However, the show's writers do not show this to enhance the drama of the moment. (Oh, Snorkel, to make an automatic signature, place four tilde characters (~~~~) at the end of your entry.) --Spencerian 10:24, 9 December 2006 (CST)

I'd say it's better that we didn't see her actual death. Death scenes can a clicé if not done right. Just showing its impact on the other character was far better and more effective IMO --Serenity 10:27, 9 December 2006 (CST)

U guys know that this is a thery, we would have to ask the writer. Come on what if she is still insickbay some later episode in rehab? then waht would you guys say. OO and KAra gave Kat Skin rebuilds she even said that in the scene. So u might be alive but we should not be so quick to say she died because there is no ground proof. Snorkel378 P.S. i dont give a damn about an automatic signature

She gave her an overdose of sleeping pills. And I haven't listened to the podcast yet, but it probably "confirms" her death --Serenity 10:37, 9 December 2006 (CST)

Yep, the podcast confirms that Kat died. Just got done listening. And Snorkel, there's no need to get ratty, we just try to help :) --Madbrood 10:41, 9 December 2006 (CST)

While the podcast does make it explicit, the story as aired makes it clear.

• We're told that flying after the tag turns black is lethal. Kat's turns black twice
• Kara gives her "sleeping pills ... enough"
• When Adama tells Kat he's promoting her, she asks him herself if he knows that she's not making it out of sick bay. He does.
• Kat isn't present when her promotion is announced. This would only happen if not only she wasn't available at the time but she never would be. If she will recover, you wait until she can be present.
• Finally, Starbuck posts her picture on the memory wall.

So, the answer to the question "Why did Starbuck put her picture on the wall?" is "so the audience would know that she died".

What makes the show so appealing to me is the quality of the writing. They take the time to tell the story through the character interaction, the emotional moments. They could have had her die on screen when she collapsed and made it explicit. But instead, they write it more powerfully. --Brons 11:45, 9 December 2006 (CST)

Excellent points, Brons. Another example of writing that sets BSG above other shows. --Madbrood 11:49, 9 December 2006 (CST)

She was A good Character, Snorkel378

Agreed. She was one of my favourite characters :( --Madbrood 11:37, 9 December 2006 (CST)

Poor Kat :( *wipes away tears* --Mercifull ^{(Talk/Contribs)} 12:07, 9 December 2006 (CST)

No doubt, Kat's dead. All the reasons above. The wall is a memorial for those who are dead, not those who are sick. And it was even in the news a former Russian spy just got wacked (assasinated by Russia) a couple weeks ago with just a small dose of radiation. Most people don't realize how dangerous radiation is because we don't deal with it on a day-to-day basis, but just a little bit can kill you. I feel that all those pilots were getting more than a small dose, other than just Kat. There could be reprocutions for all of them in the future as their health deteriorates over time.

Kat dying in this way, they could have nixed the B side story to flesh out her story. Kat was a very compelling character and her going out, well, the whole D'Anna dying over-and-over thing and the Baltar 3-way is getting boring and tedious so they could have spent more time with the Kat story. Even thus, They still did a good job of making a dramatic finish even if the story could have used a few more details.--Straycat0 13:01, 9 December 2006 (CST)

The Baltar and Three storyline is neither boring nor tedious and had only four short scenes in this episode. -- Noneofyourbusiness 14:18, 9 December 2006 (CST)

That's all opinion. Everybody's entitled to their own. But I wanted to see more of the Kat storyline and I felt the B side D'Anna story was getting in the way.--Straycat0 00:28, 10 December 2006 (CST)

What if they Findsome healing artifact do u think they would bring her back along with others? Snorkel378

This isn't Star Trek. When people are dead they are dead. Just like in real life. Only the Cylons cheat death --Serenity 15:40, 10 December 2006 (CST)

Anti-Radiation Meds

Part of the summary here suggests that there were no anti-rad doses to go around for any of the pilots. I thought that at some were given to the skeleton crews of the civilian ships. Am I right on this one? Steel viper 18:38, 9 December 2006 (CST)

RDM mentioned in the podcast that the cockpits of the civilian ships might be the most heavily shielded areas. That makes sense to save some money. So the crew could have been shielded, but not the rest of the ship --Serenity 05:30, 10 December 2006 (CST)

Perhaps this section should be titled just radiation rather than anti-radiation meds. I'm not sure why the returning rapters & pilots were subject to decontamination washing. I was under the impression the cluster had intense radiation because of so many stars so close together....not because it was filled with radioactive material. A ship inside the cluster would be exposed to intense radiation but as soon as it jumped out it would be fine. I've read the neutron bombs feed metal an intense amount of neutron s and metal objects like tanks could give off residual radiation up to two weeks after exposure. But washing wouldn't solve the problem. The 'hot' ships would have to be put aside until they cooled down.--Boonton 20:22, 9 December 2006 (CST)

I think that they were just trying to show that there was a decontamination process without getting into the real nitty-gritty details of it all. I would have preferred that they showed a little bit more realistic portrayal of a radiation decontamination, but at the same time I understand at this point in the season, they do cut corners where they can to recoup costs encured by the season opener. All this stuff isn't free and the research, props and everything... --Straycat0 00:32, 10 December 2006 (CST)

Fourth squadron leader

As we saw at the end of this episode, Galactica has four squadrons of pilots under the command of CAG. The squadron leaders were (before Kat's death, of course): Starbuck, Kat, Two Times and... Did anyone notice who was the fourth? -- Spike 20:44, 9 December 2006 (CST)

Two Times was the name of the third squad leader? Could only make out the word "Times" :) You've got better eyes then I do.

It was Ricky "Two Times" Richardson. I'm currently completely updating the List of Pilots page. --Talos 21:18, 9 December 2006 (CST)

I saw Richardson too but missed Ricky and Two Times. Does anyone have this episode yet on iTunes?--Straycat0 01:02, 10 December 2006 (CST)

I don't think that the camera ever pans over to where we can see the 4th leader. I got the ep on iTunes, but I have a season pass.

I do too, it doesn't pan over to the first squadron, but judging by the fact that Showboat is in the fourth squadron, it has to be another Captain, maybe Stinger. --Talos 06:47, 10 December 2006 (CST)

Jupiter = Zeus

I had the closed caption on and found it interesting that "Jupiter" was replaced by "Zeus". I was going to make post this as a note, but then I figured it would get shot down... because I have confidence issues. But still, this makes the debate over what the "Eye of Jupiter" is interesting (I'm leaning toward the god, not planet). Also, I got the impression from Three's line about "their gods and ours" that this is some kind of acknowledgement of Roman mythology? Or did I understand that wrong? --Mars 08:59, 10 December 2006 (CST)

It's not the first mention of Roman gods. We also have Mercury and Mars. The Eye of Jupiter is some kind of artifact they'll find down on the planet --Serenity 10:03, 10 December 2006 (CST)

Maybe we're wrong, but my friends and I thought that the dialog implied that Jupiter was a separate entity from Zeus. Was it ever stated that the Lord of Kobol Hera was like the Greek Goddess, wife of Zeus and all that? It sounds like Hera isn't married to Zeus, but is married to another god named Jupiter.

Personally, I suspect that what happened is that they named the artifact (or whatever it is) the Eye of Jupiter, and then someone realized that was a Roman name, so now they've decided to make the pantheon diverge more from the Greeks. Perhaps Mercury and Mars are also Lords of Kobol. Have Ares and Hermes ever been mentioned? Alpha5099 12:13, 10 December 2006 (CST)

Ares has been mentioned in the webisodes. I think that the names can just be used interchangably and that they aren't seperate entities at all. For example they mentioned Hera and Jupiter in the same sentence, even referring to their relationship I think. That points strongly towards the names meaning the same. A couple of thousands of years have passed, so it makes some sense that the mythology has been adapted --Serenity 12:38, 10 December 2006 (CST)

Hot Dog's name

Great episode. Sorry to see Kat go. Anyway, I noticed that Hot Dog's name was spelled as Brendan Costanza with one "N", not as Constanza. I believe it has always been spelled as Constanza but I think it was spelled as Costanza in one previous episode. --123home123 10:13, 10 December 2006 (CST)

Hybrid's Quote

Anyone got down what the Hybrid told Gaius? Figured it'd look good in the quote section... --Ghilz 14:27, 10 December 2006 (CST)