Talk:Humanoid Cylon speculation/ColdBoot/Archive 1

Elosha

How could Elosha possibly be any kind of replacement for Billy? They played together in many episodes and it was Tory Foster who replaced Billy as Roslin's aide. --Spike 02:16, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

The lines that Elosha spoke were meant for Billy, but the actor was unavailable. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus} 02:29, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Ah, those lines from "The Hub"... Sorry, I didn't catch it's about a single performance only. --Spike 11:09, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

D'Anna's joke to Roslin is a very strong clue

Just a note since Serenity removed the note about how D'Anna tells Roslin she is one of the final 5, then says it's ridiculous. This is about as far from a fanwank as you can get, at least using the criteria of clues I defined. As noted on the page, there have actually been very few real clues in the show about hidden Cylons. One of those very few clues was Cavil saying, "I know you're not a Cylon because I'm one and I haven't seen you at the meetings." Cavil is also joking here, but of course he's not, and this line is very revealing -- Cavil is a Cylon, and so is Tyrol, but he would not have seen Tyrol at the meetings because Tyrol is Final Five.

This is exactly the sort of clue that the writers will throw in. Throw it in the viewer's face then misdirect them. It is an overt reference specifically to being the final Cylon, indeed the only one in the script so far.

I laid out 3 types of clues, 2 from within the show. The first is something beyond human associated with the character. Things like Tyrol doing very well in Vacuum, or finding the Temple of Five. The second is dramatic references -- prophecies and forshadowings. These are real, and are a common type of dramatic clue. Lines like D'Anna's and Cavil's are close matches. The sort of clue I meant to exclude is the sort we also see all the time, things like "Dee has put herself close to important figures like Apollo and Billy." Those aren't the same level of clue because everybody has lots of suspicious maybes about them, there is always going to be some character associated with power. To be a clue it has to be something out of the ordinary for a human character to do.

So overt references to Cylonhood, especially final-5 hood, are qualified as they can be in my view, so I undid the removal. (I will note that due to the Last Supper, Roslin is eliminated in most people's views, but while there is a section on her -- as there should be because people want to examine her -- this belongs.) --Bradtem 05:07, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

It's clearly a joke meant to poke fun at the ridiculous speculation and overanalyzing in fandom. These days everyone is suspected to be a Cylon and the writers know it. Moore has already said that he doesn't want to have Roslin as a Cylon.

And if there are very few real clues, then the page should contain few clues and not distort lines and events on purpose to create some connection for its own sake. I thought this page was supposed to go away from the useless fanwankery it used to be in the past. But the way some sections of the reboot are developing, it's heading straight back there and the current version is far better. -- Serenity 14:01, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

I have to agree with Serenity here. RDM has pretty much removed Roslin from contention as the Last Cylon with his podcast comments, particularly the FrakParty Q&A for Crossroads, and the comments made in the Season 3 companion. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus} 15:12, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Addendum: Also, Roslin is present in the infamous picture. -- Joe Beaudoin ^{So say we all - Donate - Battlestar Pegasus} 15:13, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, she's in the picture. I decided because there still remains (in spite of official statements) controversy about both the picture and the "four in the fleet" elimination that it was appropriate to collect the clues on those characters, because users of the wiki still will want to study and consider them. Of course, we must be clear that all the clues listed on the page are wrong, except those for the one Cylon character. As such, if we are to have a section on Roslin -- a section for those eliminated by the external sources -- this joke is about as strong as clues get. Knowing it's a joke doesn't alter that. Cavil was also joking when he said he was a Cylon. That's how dramatic, rather than physical clues work. Strange turns of phrase. A similar example is the picture of Ellen Tigh with the big red glowing eye. That's not a physical clue, it's the writers playing tricks on us (if it turns out to be true.) Writer tricks are definitely clues. Worth documenting in a page like this, anyway.--Bradtem 16:31, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Let me add another explanation of why I think this is not a borderline case. When the final Cylon is revealed, there will be things from the show that will make us say, "Ah, of course!" The writers knew what they were doing when they wrote any line about the final Cylon that was special. So for each clue, ask the question, will it obviously be something the writers put in to hint at us? Again, for all but one character, the clue will be false or mean something else, but for the one real winner it will be clear. So if, in spite of the last supper picture etc. it is Roslin, I think it's fair to say we would all say "how can we not have caught that D'Anna flat out told us Roslin is F5, then pretended to be joking?" It would in fact become the most overt clue -- if she turns out to be the final Cylon. I thus feel it's inappropriate not to document it.--Bradtem 16:45, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Let's take it live

Anybody have more to add before making this the live article? What is the procedure for replacing an article anyway?--Bradtem 18:03, 28 July 2008 (UTC)