Talk:Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I/Archive 1

Since, according to IMDB, Dean Stockwell has been credited with the role of Brother Cavell (not Cavill) ... should this page be modified? Apparently, one more cylon has been identified.

Not sure. All the ep guide says is that Cavell is a Humano-Cylon priest. IS it possible that the spoiler is wrong and he's really just a religious leader (possibly replacing Elosha) who is promoting a Human-Cylon peace? --Ltcrashdown 22:19, 5 February 2006 (EST)

I've been spoiled, and can tell you that he is indeed a Cylon (unless he has an identical twin brother). Noneofyourbusiness 12:49, 4 March 2006 (EST)

Ummm... dude, thanks for spoiling me. Grrr.... --stealthboy 10:38, 6 March 2006 (EST)

Found some pics - Spoiler Warning - http://pics.livejournal.com/ravenclawdrew/gallery/0000wa1h - Lordmutt 12:30, 11 February, 2006

Yeah I saw those too; it's what I based the info about Baltar running for President on (look really hard).--The Merovingian 20:40, 10 February 2006 (EST)

I am starting to think these spoilers were to throw us off the track...

Corrected a number of spelling mistakes - Lordmutt 3rd March, 2006

Note to everyone: I tend to make a lot of spelling mistakes because I'm hurrying, and worrying about spelling makes it harder for me to concentrate and focus on the information, and slows me down alot; I usually try to proofread my stuff when I'm "done" with an episode (after most of the notes and stuff around done) but I still tend to leave a typo here or there. I appreciate the spelling help. --The Merovingian 22:55, 3 March 2006 (CST)

Merovingian, don't worry, the quality article makes "up" for it ;) i do the same thing as well when it comes to writing up an article - Lordmutt 3rd March, 2006

Yeah I usually only worry about spelling around Sundays, by which time we're more or less done. --The Merovingian 23:04, 3 March 2006 (CST)

I think this is the right approach. We obviously want the capsule summaries sooner rather than later. And we don't criticise authors' typos as English may not be their native tongue and in any event if we waited for perfection we'd still be on the miniseries. JohnH 08:14, 4 March 2006 (CST)

Does anyone know the music playing the the background from the first few scenes of this episode? --PioneerCreative 23:33, 3 March 2006 (CST)

How many Raptors are lost in the misjump into the mountain? One or two? I only thought it was on when I watched the episode and edited the summary to reflect this, but it seems everybody else seems to think it was a pair. Starbuck did say two names, but I interpreted those to be the pilot and ECO of a single Raptor. -CWD 01:29, 4 March 2006 (CST)

Helo says they have 17 Raptors left. They already lost Racetrack's. They then say two names, and Starbuck says "we lost Raptore six twelve"; Now, this sounds confusing, but I don't think she said "Raptor 612"; I think she said "Raptors 6, 12" out of 20. Plus she did say two names; in addition, it wasn't just pilots but also marines, so one name wouldn't make as much sense. Although a little fuzzy, this still fits the "19-17=2" thing, instead of us jumping to believe that another Raptor got lost in a completely undocumented event. --The Merovingian 01:36, 4 March 2006 (CST)

I remember hearing Helo say they had seventeen left after (I thought) a single one had been lost in the mountain and thinking nineteen was an odd starting number, having missed the earlier reference to the entire complement being twenty. If the starting force did indeed number twenty, it seems clear two Raptors were indeed lost in the final jump and I was mistaken. I will point out, however, that Starbuck would be much less likely to know the names of marines lost on board a ship, while it's almost a given she would know who the flight crew were. -CWD 02:01, 4 March 2006 (CST)

Helo actually says, "Wait a minute, we lost another Raptor. I'm only reading 17 out there." His DRADIS screen doesn't display the Raptor they are in - that behavior was shown clearly in Scattered. Galactica's DRADIS was completely empty when they were seperated from the fleet, it didn't show Galactica itself as a single contact. So, clearly, Helo is talking about there being 17 other Raptors, in addition to the one he, Starbuck, and Sharon are in. In addition, Starbuck clearly says Raptor, not Raptors, and it is extremely unlikely that she would verbally separate a list of two numbers with an implied comma rather than the word 'and'. Not to mention, Raptors are commonly referred to by their 3-digit flight number. So only two Raptors were lost - Racetrack's miscalculated jump, and Raptor 612, which jumped into the mountain. Eighteen landed safely on Caprica. --Xenophon10k 09:00, 4 March 2006 (CST)

Xenophon is right on the money. Oh well, this means I don't have to right all that. I suddenly want to read "The Ten Thousand" again... --Talos 09:24, 4 March 2006 (CST)

And just to chime in, if there were only 17 raptors, then Kara would have had to scrub the mission, so 18 did land on Caprica. --LindyChef 23:05, 6 March 2006 (CST)

BTW: in case anyone was wondering later; in the podcast, RDM confirms that by "jumped into the mountain" he doesn't mean "they jumped close to it and thus crashed", he means, exactly like a Star Trek transporter accident, that they materialized from the Jump "in solid rock" like a transporter accident. Cool. (It's what I assumed too).--The Merovingian 02:39, 4 March 2006 (CST)

If the FTL drive works by opening up a wormhole then it seems like jumping into a mountain would create a sphear of rock that would be 'jumped' into space while the raptor swapped places with it. Likewise a puff of air would be seen if you were observing the spot from which the the raptors made their final jump into the atomosphere. If that was the case it would be possible for the unfortunate raptor to just jump itself out of the mountain. On the other hand perhaps opening up the wormhole w/one end in the mountain perhaps the raptor collided with the rock that was being 'jumped out' leaving its transponder intact inside the mountain but the raptor & its crew would be smashed up. If this is the case FTL's could make useful mining tools. If some valuable ore is buried at the center of a planet or star just use an FTL to open up a wormhole and let it come out. Say your water tanks are empty. Just open up a wormhole inside the tank with the other end in some fresh water lake & the water will pour out and fill you up. -- attributed to Boonton @ unknown time

Oh man, you're getting into quantum physics, and while that makes for a fascinating discussion (appropriate for here, if you wish), I'll prefix this by saying that RDM has stated, several times, that he's not one for techno-babble-geekiness. Let's just figure the folks in that Raptor got "rocked" (sorry, bad pun... I could have said "stoned") and won't be seen again. -- Hawke 13:49, 6 March 2006 (CST)

Fair point. I love that RDM has kept away from geeking the series up with psuedo-science but the mind can't help but wonder about these things. --Boonton 14:09, 6 March 2006 (CST)

Is the planet in this episode Earth? -- John-1107 09:06, 4 March 2006 (CST)

No. The leaders know roughly where Earth is, and it's very far away from their current position. JohnH 09:13, 4 March 2006 (CST)

Not to mention that Earth is neither barren nor hidden in a nebula. Noneofyourbusiness 12:47, 4 March 2006 (EST)

Not now, at least. BlueResistance 15:30, 4 March 2006 (EST)

Hey all, I find it interesting that the discussion automatically focuses on counting Raptors and figuring out how the technical things work. Can we perhaps add some discussion about the actual events of the show, and the characters? To me, the draw of the show is the fact that it's actually a character drama that just happens to be set in space... Ron Moore has said many times that he doesn't feel the need to explain how everything works, and I think that goes a long way in making it a successful show. The last time I really saw that was the original Star Wars. With no explaination of all the sci-fi tech, you more readily accepted "their" world and just went along for the ride, instead of getting caught up on minutia of how FTL works, etc. Thoughts? Or am I just out there...? -- stealthboy 10:23, 7 March 2006 (EST)

I agree, this episode put forth some interesting ideas about religion. Brother Cavell, who I would expect to be putting forth a stelth version of the cyclon religion, more or less ripped apart the idea of praying to the gods for help. Is he trying to weaken the colonials faith in polytheism in order to pave the ground for a cyclon conversion effort to monotheism?

In politics I found the camapaign by Baltar to settle the planet to be odd. How many modern people could be dropped off in untamed wilderness and make a settlement from scratch? I for one would rather have the comfort of a modern ship to live in until we find a world pre-populated with friendly people.

Finally the rescue mission struck me as odd as well. This seems like an incredibly risky mission to send the best of the best on in order to achieve the slim hope of recuing a handful of people. Will Galactica and the fleet just wait around for them to return? What if they all get killed, how long can the fleet wait to see if this gamble pays off?--Boonton 14:32, 7 March 2006 (CST)

About Brother Cavel, he criticized prayer - not the Lords of Kobol. He said the problem was with Tyrol, not them.

About the campaign, the peopled vote based on hope not reality. They're not thinking of how hard it will be down there, and won't until they actually have to make a living.--Noneofyourbusiness 17:00, 8 March 2006 (EST)

Raptor Count

Questions:

1. Did we get the 20 raptor count in dialog?
2. We lost Racetrack on the first jump and Raptor 612 on the last. The SAR team had 17 raptors after that, so if they started off with 20, they lost one other in between. Only Raptor 612 got up close and personal with the mountain. --Peter Farago 12:51, 4 March 2006 (CST)

No, Farago. She said "RaptorS 6, 12". They lost 2 in the final jump, 1 when Racetrack got lost, and none in between. Starbuck lists off two names. --The Merovingian 14:12, 4 March 2006 (CST)

Counting the one they're in (Helo said something like "there are only 17 Raptors out there") it would have to be Raptor 612 (they've paused like that before in dialogue "Raptor 6..12").

• 17 other survivors
• Starbucks (one with Heavy Raider brain)
• 612 (in mountain)
• Racetracks

=20

Helo is in Starbuck's Raptor, which would not show up on his screen. The correct count is Helo/Starbuck's ship, + Racetrack, + Raptor 612 (lost in the mountain), + 17 others = 20. -CWD 09:28, 5 March 2006 (CST)

Yes, but are we certain there were 20 raptors to begin with? It's not given in dialog, and I haven't been able to get a good count from any CGI shots. According to sadgeezer, these are the pilots that checkin with Starbuck over wireless:

1. Headcase
2. Swordsman
3. Shoestrap
4. Scumball
5. Milko
6. Skylar
7. Ronin
8. Brake
9. Boulion
10. Steaker
11. Hamster
12. Bo
13. Chaser
14. Godama
15. Charlieman
16. Starcloud
17. Racetrack
18. Callon
19. ...and Starbuck.

I suppose the raptor piloted by "Toughguy" and "Carousel" makes 20. I also hear an unintellgable name between "Swordsman" and "Shoestrap", but I can't actually hear "Toughguy" either - they might be the same person. I think it's worth noting that Stubbs isn't on this list - this reinforces my opinion that he was the pilot killed in "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I", but I suppose it's possible that he's still around and just opted out of the mission.

--Peter Farago 14:00, 5 March 2006 (CST)

I'm confused - I don't remember hearing that many checkins. The only time I recall them doing it, I heard at most a couple followed by Racetrack and then they were done. -CWD 22:48, 5 March 2006 (CST)

The checkins were in the background while Helo talked to Sharon. Additionally, they did only lose one Raptor (Helo continually refers to losing one Raptor, in the singular) and his exact line was "they jumped inside the mountain". Philwelch 12:38, 7 March 2006 (CST)

Raptor Reconciliation

In Scar the mining ship was mining metals for Pegas's production teams to construct new vipers. Isn't it possible they produced some raptors as well?

It might be, but just like an automobile factory, it would probably take substantial effort and material to re-tool the Pegasus viper factory for raptors. Switching to another variety of the same vehicle (Corollas to Camrys, or Mark II vipers to Mark VII) takes some doing; this would be a much bigger change. BlueResistance 5 March 2006 6:08 p.m. (EST).

Well, the Pegasus has the capablility to build one craft in it's air wing. Logically, she should also be able to produce other ones. --Talos 18:59, 5 March 2006 (CST)

Actually many automobile assembly lines are being designed now to allow for multiple models to be built at the same time. For example, BMW's new plant in Leipzig can produce all 10 BMW models on the same assembly line. --LindyChef 22:59, 6 March 2006 (CST)

Noodles note

I think the noodles note on this went on far longer than it should; just leave it with "this is something his father did too": pointing out all of the superstitions and stuff just ran on--->unless RDM himself mentions this kind of thing in the podcast, she should not use it here; RDM indeed did not mention it in the podcast for LDYB part I. --The Merovingian 22:05, 5 March 2006 (CST)

Spoiler's Right or Wrong

So were the spoilers that were posted before the episode aired a red herring? The planet was not offered by the cyclons as part of a peace initive. Since one of the selling points of this planet is that it is supposedly unlikely to be found by the cyclons wouldn't any of them showing up in part 2 basically spoil the whole idea? -- attributed to Boonton @ unknown time

crew member handling electronic countermeasures of a craft; ECOs are standard crew aboard Raptors (see: ECO)

Re-imagined Series definition: the process of using the FTL engines to make an near-instantaneous apparent faster-than-light transport of a ship from one point in space to another

Re-imagined Series definition: "Direction, Range, and Distance", Colonial equivalent of radar or lidar

Re-imagined Series definition: technology enabling travel across distances faster than the speed of light would permit, see: FTL

Original Series definition: a title of nobility (e.g. Count Iblis)

Re-imagined Series definition: the act of finding missing persons in the hopes of their rescue, see: SAR ^{(TRS: "Fragged")}

Re-imagined Series definition: used to signify a civilian transport vessel over a certain gross weight/mass, i.e. Colonial Heavy 798

Re-imagined Series definition: Colonial equivalent of radio