Talk:Messengers/Archive 1

For discussions prior to March 14, 2007, see this revision.

Major revision

This article was strewn with theories and fanwankery that cluttered the article. With the revelations of season 3, what is known about the nature of the virtual Six and Baltar reduces the probability of earlier speculation. Recent contributions have been more of possibility that is hardly supported by aired content, and reading the article as a whole was nearly impossible. As well, the article repeated informaation already present in the episode guides or a more relevant article. I have rewritten the article to keep sole focus on the origins, motivations and behavior of the virtual beings, removing all previous irrelevant, incorrect or otherwise inappropriate content on their nature or history.

As this article deals with the virtual beings related to Cylon activity, I eliminated the text on other character visions; they are more suited for a separate article to keep topics from blending.

With major revisions like this, there is always a possibility that something significant was lost. Contributors should feel free to add in significant notes of the virtual beings, but please do not repeat every instance of the being's presence or interject speculation that is not supported with episode content. The article, in my opinion and recommendation, should focus more on what they do to the actual characters and less on their nature until the show reveals more of their origin. Again, please be careful about excessive speculation; "theories" per se are not acceptable on Battlestar Wiki. --Spencerian 15:34, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

Virtual Baltar Episodes

In the major edit, I botched the episode citation for virtual Baltar's visit to C-Six in her jail cell. One or both of the episode citations I noted are wrong. Corrections to this information are appreciated. --Spencerian 15:54, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

The visit is in "The Woman King". That's where the two kiss and they wonder what's going on.--Serenity 16:00, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

About this: "Neither character has revealed the presence of these images to each other or any other character as of the episode, "The Woman King" (where the virtual Baltar makes an appearance)."
Does this mean that it is the first instance where another character (here Roslin) really wonders what one of them is doing? --Serenity 16:09, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

It should say "Neither character has revealed the existence (...)." Other characters have witnessed the strange behavior, but to my memory, only Roslin has verbally wondered. --Spencerian 17:09, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

Virtual Baltar has appeared to Baltar. -- LicensedLunacy 16:26, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I think that Baltar seeing himself is just a unique way to convey he is thinking/ talking to himself, considering his options. Snorkel378

Virtual Leoben

Shouldn't we add virtual Leoben? He's sort of important I'd say, and is not a part of Kara...--Sauron18 16:34, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

That's a good question. I would say "yes" but that also introduces other dream-related visions such as the ones I removed. I recommend "no" as the article should limit itself to visions that are experienced by characters in real-time and not while unconscious (sleeping or otherwise). That's my opinion and is open for more scrutiny. --Spencerian 17:09, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

No. There is a good chance that Head-Six and Head-Baltar are somehow Cylon-related. That chance is not so great with Maelstrom Leoben, since IMHO it's more likely just a representation of her own subconscious and not in any way whatsoever related to the real Leoben (it even says so in the episode). --Serenity 12:04, 15 March 2007 (CDT)

Maybe we should add at least a note about Maelstrom Leoben and A Day in Life Carolanne, though? 12:37, 15 March 2007 (CDT)

I concur with Serenity. The virtuals are definitely a unexpected (and unrevealed) side-effect of Cylon technology, that much is certain. The virtual Leoben isn't a Cylon, and doesn't appear in real time. He needs a separate article (and deserves it). --Spencerian 14:00, 15 March 2007 (CDT)

I've created a virtual Leoben article and updated the relevant pages where he it cited. --Spencerian 15:00, 15 March 2007 (CDT)

I have to disagree that the virtual Six and Baltar are definitely, or even probably, a result of Cylon technology. Their nature is as unknown as the virtual Leoben's. -- Noneofyourbusiness 11:37, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

Cylon Tech

Isn't this line: "Since the effect appears to occur only between Caprica-Six and Gaius Baltar, it is possible that their visions are an unknown side-effect of Cylon technology," complete specualtion? I think it should be removed, but before doing so, I thought I'd check to make sure there wasn't any concensus I wasn't aware of. If it happened with the other six members of the Significant Seven (or even a majority of them) I wouldn't have as much of a problem, but as it's only happened with Six and Baltar I think it's out of place. If anything, a more appropriate stateent would be something like it's an unkown side-effect of cylon-human intimacy.--RUSnooky 21:09, 3 June 2007 (CDT)

The way you phrase is still speculation, but is more precise to what we know, and would be more appropriate. --Spencerian

I completely agree, and I'd rather remove it outright, but was trying to be diplomatic. I'm going to remove it completely.--RUSnooky 10:25, 4 June 2007 (CDT)