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| == Formatting and Defining Characters in Template == | | {{Template:Archive-bot |
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| | |archive = Template talk:Characters/Archive%(counter)d |
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| Thanks to [[User:Undc23|Undc23]], we have a character template that makes it easier to navigate to characters. There's probably some that choose to adjust the formatting; I've already put my 2 cents in and quickly reached my wiki coding limits. I recommend that contributors compare the format to the template used in Wikipedia for [[Wikipedia:Template:matrix|The Matrix saga entries]] listed there.
| | Wouldn't it make sense to move Tory and Anders to "Supporting" now, since they'll have a much bigger role in season 4? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 03:34, 14 April 2008 (UTC) |
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| We also need to determine two additional points:
| | == Template bloat == |
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| * What characters should appear in this list. I feel that characters who have been in at least 3 episodes qualify, but if they are dead for longer than 2 seasons, the entry could be removed unless their contribution to the overall storyline is significant. [[Crashdown]], for instance, may deserve retention here because his death is a critical juncture for [[Gaius Baltar]]. [[Hadrian]] and [[Wallace Gray]], at present, aren't really characters of depth. I haven't removed or added any characters due to my wiki code skill limits, so look over the template and consider my thoughts and share your own.
| | We're running into the same problem we've [[Template talk:Characters/Archive1|run into before]] with the sudden bloat that this template has taken on. We need to seriously discuss this, otherwise I can see it getting ridiculous real frakking quickly. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 07:00, 5 December 2009 (UTC) |
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| * The [[TOS|Original Series]] character lists would benefit greatly from a similar template, probably similarly named as [[template:toscharacters]]. Although the series ran for just a season (and 1/2, counting the dreaded ''[[Galactica 1980]]''), the "planet of the week" and "alien of the week" formatting generated dozens of characters. Maybe Undc23 will step to the plate for this, or someone else.
| | :Agreed, recurring characters was completely out of hand, I cleaned it up, removing [[Richard Adar]], [[Layne Ishay]], [[Peter Laird]], and [[Kendra Shaw]] while fixing line breaks, I think it looks better now. It can probably be tightened up a little bit more. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 21:28, 6 December 2009 (UTC) |
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| --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:11, 28 December 2005 (EST)
| | :: I might go one step further and just say we need a "recurring characters" plate for those pages with important recurring characters, and have that applied to those pages only. Also, I would probably remove [[Jean Barolay]] too. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 21:36, 6 December 2009 (UTC) |
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| :I agree. The TOS could probably use something like this. I'm not sure whether it would be better to follow this example (main characters only) or the matrix one (to organize all the secondary/minor characters as well). I'd be afraid of having an excessive amount of minor characters cluttering it up, but perhaps one season wouldn't be that bad. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:09, 28 December 2005 (EST) | |
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| I don't like this at all. I think it looks ugly on the Matrix pages on Wiki, and is redundant with our Characters category. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:59, 28 December 2005 (EST)
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| :Is there any way to organize the Characters category? Maybe a category-subcategory relationship? The character category pages by themselves are difficult to read (in terms of determining which characters are major and going to have a big writeup, vs. minor characters). Having character subcategories might be able to render an easier to navigate category page without adding clutter to each of the characters that falls in the subcategory. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:22, 28 December 2005 (EST)
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| ::Yes, I've been meaning to give some thought to revising the categories here for some time. [[Battlestar Wiki:Categories|Let's get to work]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:00, 28 December 2005 (EST)
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| ::: I'm torn. Last night I was trying to figure out the name of the ''Pegasus's'' XO so I could see if there was a good picture of him, but I couldn't find him. I didn't go hunting through the Category, however. Something like this would help with that (or just cross-linking him in Cain or ''Pegasus's'' articles), but I agree with Peter that it doesn't look wonderful, and deciding who should be on it and all... updating it... Seems like a lot of hassle. I like the idea of subcatagories in the Characters one, maybe so one for ''Galactica'' personell (include Lee and Kara because, really, they're from ''Galactica''), ''Pegasus'' personell and the Civillians. --[[User:Day|Day]] 15:04, 28 December 2005 (EST)
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| Spencerian, I agree some characters place on the list is dubious, but I figured others would edit that anyway so go for it. Farago and Day, I don't think it's redundant, as you can browse characters more quickly. If you've noticed, there is a virtually identical template at the bottom of episode pages despite there being an episode category, and this template seems to have been accepted. As for aesthetics, well thats personal opinion, I like it :)--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 19:49, 28 December 2005 (EST)
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| :It certainly does point to a deficiency in the category system. I am continuing to mull on it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:53, 28 December 2005 (EST)
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| === Idea #1? ===
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| Been thinking about this for some time as well... Just that nothing's come to me that I've particularly liked. So I'm going to share with all of you the one idea that's been stabbing the grey matter in my mind.
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| Here's how the whole Category:Characters thing should work, using Category:Characters (RDM) as a baseline...
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| : [[:Category:Characters (RDM)]] (first level categories, followed by the following categories that would be second level...)
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| :: [[:Category:Minor Characters (RDM)]]
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| :: [[:Category:Recurring Characters (RDM)]] (i.e. Ellen Tigh)
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| :: [[:Category:Major Characters (RDM)]] (The two Adamas, Roslin, et al.)
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| Did we want to get specific with characters that were Cylons? If so, then we could add:
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| :: [[:Category:Humano-Cylon Characters (RDM)]]
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| Also, how specific did we want to go with the Character categories? Did we want to have a category for civilians, military, and government? Do we want to have categories for Galactica crew vs. Pegasus crew as well? -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 19:35, 31 December 2005 (EST)
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| :We've been tossing ideas for this around on [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Categories]]. There are some problems to be dealt with, but I'm working on a sketch to run by people. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:36, 31 December 2005 (EST)
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| == A dissenting view ==
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| I love this template because it's a lot easier to cross-navigate than the category. It's also a good at-first-glance look at who all is there. Although here's an idea--why don't we subdivide it so that we can have a template for, say, the Galactica enlisted that may or may not be re-integrated into the master template? (It may also be useful to devise a smaller template for the characters played by the actors billed in the opening credits--Adama, Roslin, Lee, Kara, Baltar, Boomer, and Six--but that may lead to problems.) [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 20:08, 31 December 2005 (EST)
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| :I think the template is getting a little out of hand, but then again BSG is unusual in having so many significant characters who aren't part of the main regular cast. But we're verging on making a huge mess at the bottome of many character pages; meanwhile I don't want some people assuming these are the ONLY characters. I don't know what to do. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:07, 2 January 2006 (EST)
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| ::I also worry that the template will over-power those characters who have very short write-ups and who, for whatever, reason, will probably never have a longer write-up. I mean--what more is there to say about good ol' [[Raymond Lai|Raygun]]? Yet the template is longer than his article. --[[User:Day|Day]] 00:51, 2 January 2006 (EST)
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| :::I still want it removed. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:50, 2 January 2006 (EST)
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| == Standardization Required ==
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| We need to define the use of this template in Standards and Conventions if the majority wants it to stay. Right now, recent additions for one-shot characters unlikely to be seen again anytime soon unneccessarily fill the template and it is growing ridiculously large. I recommend that:
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| * The character template is used ONLY with characters that play a critical role (in life or death) in the MAJOR plot or MAJOR character's development of the series, AND
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| * Appears in ''no fewer'' than two episodes or a story arc
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| I propose the two points are mutually inclusive: BOTH must be met for a character to fit in the template. A character that reoccurs but isn't a major story-driving character (such as [[Laird]]) doesn't fit the bill, while a recurring character that sparks the course of a major character (such as [[Elosha]]) are worthy.
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| That said, [[Helena Cain]] and [[Crashdown]] are also good examples of ones to keep in the template. Cain darkly changes the dynamics of the Fleet (and adds a battlestar to it). Crashdown set in motion a darker change in [[Gaius Baltar]] when Baltar shoots him. [[Socinus]] was in both the "[[Litmus]]" and Kobol story arcs with a significant purpose. While [[Jack Fisk]] isn't a significant character in itself, he's part of the Resurrection Ship mutual assassination story arc. [[Thorne]] isn't a biggie, but his death led to that standoff between Adama and Cain. But [[Prosna]], [[Hadrian]], [[Mason]], [[Phelan]], [[Shevon]], [[Wallace Gray]] (among others) are not suitable for long-term retention in the template as they don't fit the two points. There are other ways to find these and other minor characters without cluttering up every article; besides, this is a wiki, so things are linked by design and easy to find with a search term. We have years of ''Battlestar'' in store, so we have to keep things trimmed in anticipation and to keep the purpose of the wiki true.
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| To make this simple, let's keep debate short and sweet--one comment with one dissent. Please avoid conversation threads, and get your point right the first time. If we don't get consensus on the format, we can put it to a vote in a few days. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:42, 3 February 2006 (EST)
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| ===Discussion===
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| Hadrian was a recurring character in season 1, and should stay. Thorne, however, only appeared in "Pegasus", and doesn't appear to meet your requirements. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:11, 3 February 2006 (EST)
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| :On the other hand, I'll remember Thorne longer than I'll remember Hadrian. If the template gets too big, we can trim it over time. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 17:29, 3 February 2006 (EST)
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| ::It's already too big. --[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 18:41, 3 February 2006 (EST)
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| : I agree; I think Hadrian should stay and Thorne should be dropped. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 18:55, 3 February 2006 (EST)
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| :: Thorne was not a major character, anyway. He was more of a plot device. (Not a [[Cami]], but maybe more of a [[Wallace Gray]]... well, somewhat.) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 19:10, 3 February 2006 (EST)
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| :::He saved my life, as well as the lives of fifty other men, you miserable frak! Thorne was more than a plot device! Erm, I mean....I respectfully disagree :) [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:10, 3 February 2006 (EST)
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| == Trim ==
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| I just trimmed it down a little. Thoughts? [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 18:48, 3 February 2006 (EST)
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| : I would remove Laird and Thorne. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 19:17, 3 February 2006 (EST)
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| ::It does look better, too. Thanks, Phil. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:45, 3 February 2006 (EST)
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| ::Maybe later, but as of now, Laird and Thorne aren't making the template any bigger, they're just making it less empty. Removing them would make no difference with respect to size, their notability notwithstanding. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:05, 3 February 2006 (EST)
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| == Liposuction... stat! ==
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| I was mulling over what to do about this template size and came across the page on [[Wikipedia:Cosmo Kramer|Cosmo Kramer]]. Interestingly enough, if one looks at the bottom they see the character box containing the major characters of ''Seinfeld''. We could do the same thing to the major characters of ''Galactica'', although we may have to tailor it to suit our needs. Thoughts? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 00:06, 11 February 2006 (EST)
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