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| *<strike>Updating [[Peter Laird]]</strike> | | *<strike>Updating [[Peter Laird]]</strike> |
| *<s>Finding out who [[Riggs]] and [[Frank Bruno]] are and updating the articles</s> | | *Finding out who [[Riggs]] and [[Frank Bruno]] are and updating the articles |
| *<strike>Adding some other lines to Noteworthy Dialogue</strike> | | *<strike>Adding some other lines to Noteworthy Dialogue</strike> |
| *<strike>Adding such dialogue to [[Razor Flashbacks]]. Not much to go on, but the "[[nothing but the rain]]" exchange between Adama and McGavin is good.</strike> | | *<strike>Adding such dialogue to [[Razor Flashbacks]]. Not much to go on, but the "[[nothing but the rain]]" exchange between Adama and McGavin is good.</strike> |
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| :::(Update.) OrionFour, I did run with your suggestion however, as you can see [[Razor/Full Article|here]], which integrates the main article with the sub articles for the complete page. However, there's still no way for a user to dynamically pick what they want. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 10:58, 16 December 2007 (CST) | | :::(Update.) OrionFour, I did run with your suggestion however, as you can see [[Razor/Full Article|here]], which integrates the main article with the sub articles for the complete page. However, there's still no way for a user to dynamically pick what they want. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 10:58, 16 December 2007 (CST) |
| : Yeah, we can split off the notes, analysis, and statements into their own separate sub-article. That'd work. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 08:36, 11 December 2007 (CST) | | : Yeah, we can split off the notes, analysis, and statements into their own separate sub-article. That'd work. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 08:36, 11 December 2007 (CST) |
| : I strongly disagree. Unlike the miniseries, there's no logical breakpoint, and having analysis and synopsis on different pages is irritating and confusing - I'm personally glad we abandoned the practice with the miniseries articles. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 13:29, 11 December 2007 (CST) | | : I strongly disagree. Unlike the miniseries, there's no logical breakpoint, and having analysis and synopsis on different pages is irritating and confusing - I'm personally glad we abandoned the practice with the miniseries articles. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:29, 11 December 2007 (CST) |
| ::Well, the article is a bit too long. I moved the official statements to a subpage, since that can easily be put elsewhere. If we don't want to do that with analysis and notes too (which are very important), we could also move the dialogue. Then the article wouldn't really be short, but manageable I think. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:37, 11 December 2007 (CST) | | ::Well, the article is a bit too long. I moved the official statements to a subpage, since that can easily be put elsewhere. If we don't want to do that with analysis and notes too (which are very important), we could also move the dialogue. Then the article wouldn't really be short, but manageable I think. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:37, 11 December 2007 (CST) |
| ::: The dialogue does take up a lot of the page, so we can probably move that to a seperate sub-page as well. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 17:00, 11 December 2007 (CST) | | ::: The dialogue does take up a lot of the page, so we can probably move that to a seperate sub-page as well. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 17:00, 11 December 2007 (CST) |
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| == Colonial Officers - compromising one's credo == | | == Colonial Officers - compromising one's credo == |
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| The Colonial military must have a different creed for their officer corps. I am a Lieutenant Colonel in the USAFR, and one of the first things that I learned was that the military was for the protection of the nation - and by extention, the citizens. And as the officer corps is responsible to ensure that this creed is upheld, seeing officers in "Razor" comply with an illegal order to kill people on the SCYILLA because these people wanted protection, and not be plundered in an act of piracy, is abhorrent. Lt. Shaw was understandably not happy about complying with the order, but if she had any integrity, she would not only have declined the promotion to Captain from Admiral Cain, she would have also resigned her commission and told Cain that she was nothing more than a corsair. [[User:Expatkiwi|Expatkiwi]] 12:28, 29 December 2007 (PST) | | The Colonial military must have a different creed for their officer corps. I am a Lieutenant Colonel in the USAFR, and one of the first things that I learned was that the military was for the protection of the nation - and by extention, the citizens. And as the officer corps is responsible to ensure that this creed is upheld, seeing officers in "Razor" comply with an illegal order to kill people on the SCYILLA because these people wanted protection, and not be plundered in an act of piracy, is abhorrent. Lt. Shaw was understandably not happy about complying with the order, but if she had any integrity, she would not only have declined the promotion to Captain from Admiral Cain, she would have also resigned her commission and told Cain that she was nothing more than a corsair. [[Expatkiwi|Expatkiwi]] 12:28, 29 December 2007 (PST) |
| :If the ''Scylla'' had happened before the [[Fall of the Colonies]], maybe Shaw would have told Cain to stick her orders up her ass. However, there was nowhere to run from a crazy woman commanding (as far as she knew) the only remaining military ship left in the universe. The danger of Cain having her killed for such insurrection was very real, considering the order to shoot people on the ''Scylla'' and her murder of [[Jurgen Belzen]]. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 15:36, 29 December 2007 (CST) | | :If the ''Scylla'' had happened before the [[Fall of the Colonies]], maybe Shaw would have told Cain to stick her orders up her ass. However, there was nowhere to run from a crazy woman commanding (as far as she knew) the only remaining military ship left in the universe. The danger of Cain having her killed for such insurrection was very real, considering the order to shoot people on the ''Scylla'' and her murder of [[Jurgen Belzen]]. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 15:36, 29 December 2007 (CST) |
| ::The thing is, Cain can't singlehandedly kill everyone who disobeys an order. If enough people had refused to go with her course of action, they could have disposed of her. Her system only worked because enough people voluntarily went along with it. Probably not everyone, but enough to intimidate the rest. Though, Shaw refusing that promotion when she was alone with Cain probably wouldn't have gone over well. A coordinated mutiny might have worked however. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:52, 29 December 2007 (CST) | | ::The thing is, Cain can't singlehandedly kill everyone who disobeys an order. If enough people had refused to go with her course of action, they could have disposed of her. Her system only worked because enough people voluntarily went along with it. Probably not everyone, but enough to intimidate the rest. Though, Shaw refusing that promotion when she was alone with Cain probably wouldn't have gone over well. A coordinated mutiny might have worked however. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:52, 29 December 2007 (CST) |
| :::Good luck coordinating it when you've already killed someone on Cain's say-so and accepted the promotion that followed it ;) --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 16:00, 29 December 2007 (CST) | | :::Good luck coordinating it when you've already killed someone on Cain's say-so and accepted the promotion that followed it ;) --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 16:00, 29 December 2007 (CST) |
| ::::From a storytelling and character development perspective, the episode follows the molding of Kendra Shaw's character. There are powerful forces at play here: the difference in rank and authority between an admiral and an admiral's aide, the sheer force of Cain's personality, and the direness and desperation of the situation. This is a conflict between what is taught in the classroom and what is encountered in the field, where the commander sets the tone, with plenty of real-life examples.--[[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 23:48, 17 January 2008 (CST)
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| == Experimented upon Humans in First Cylon War flashback ==
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| After watching the DVD version of Razor, I was convinced that the humans being tortured in the flashback were somewhat familiar. The fact that it looked like they were being intentionally obscured by makeup, camera angles and doors seemed like an invitation to look further.
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| I believe that after Adama puts his hand into the prototype vat:
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| * The first person you see behind the bars is a Leoben (or at least the human template).
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| * The person on the table being carved up with scalpels is Galen Tyrol.
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| * The disfigured lady behind the bars is a Number 8.
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| Which begs the question who is the terrified man and the child? Before I realised it was supposed to be a child, I presumed it was a Number 6.
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| I was expecting to find reference to this somewhere on the web, but drew a blank; so I'm prepared to be wrong - but I'm almost 100% certain of the gentleman on the table being Galen.
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| --[[User:Zaz|Zaz]] 16:55, 1 January 2008 (CST)
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| : Unfortunately, much of this is speculation and there's nothing to really support either interpretation, so you won't find much on it here. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 16:56, 1 January 2008 (CST)
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| :: Fair enough, but I do invite people to take a look. --[[User:Zaz|Zaz]] 17:02, 1 January 2008 (CST)
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| ::: Oh, it's definitely worth looking into. It's just impossible to support any definitive interpretation on those scenes. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 17:07, 1 January 2008 (CST)
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| ::::An interesting idea. Someone else also pitched the idea somewhere around here that Tigh was the terrified man, that Adama rescued him and that that's how they became friends (this was when the "Razor" webisodes were released). However, Adama doesn't rescue anyone, and it was pointed out that Adama and Tigh first met after the war aboard a freighter ([[Scattered]]). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 17:13, 1 January 2008 (CST)
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| :::::Interesting speculation. Personally I always thought the Terrified Man at the very least sounded like a Leoben. You might try posting something on the [http://www.battlestarforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=3 Battlestar Forum] and see what people think. --[[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 17:41, 1 January 2008 (CST)
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| == relatively poor special effects in Razor ==
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| Firstly, I'll refer to the following from the article:
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| *''A curious technical gaffe appears to occur as the smoke from the various fires in the shipyard travel upward. Unless the flames (which would appear as a globular "blossom" shape without gravity) jet upward, the smoke, with the lack of convection (heat rising upward as lighter gases against gravity), would expand in all directions opposite the flames or venting, not "up" relative to the battlestar or flames.''
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| **''While this is true, it is possible that the ship yard is drifting, having lost attitude control due to damage which would leave a short trail.''
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| Would a drifting object in space really leave a trail of smoke if the smoke is not propelled from the object with any counter-force (as that of rocket engine)?
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| I'd have thought without the friction of an atmosphere, the smoke would continue with the same momentum [and in the same direction] as that of the object it originated from. Is anyone here a physicist?
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| :If there are no forces acting on the object and the smoke, this would be true (within the inertial frame). If the object has angular momentum (rotating), this would create a curved trail.-- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 09:27, 6 March 2008 (CST)
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| I believe the special effects in ''Razor'' are simply of lower quality that that of the other RDM content. Other examples are:
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| * The explosion looks "cheap" when a Raider is destroyed during the Guardian's final attack on Pegasus (this scene is also in the teaser prologue).
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| * When Husker chases the two Raiders into the clouds, the ships seem to disappear prematurely.
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| [[User:Xlynx|Xlynx]] 22:51, 2 February 2008 (CST)
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| About that shipyard thing, because the fires would be above the shipyard's upper deck, is it possible that there could be a little gravity extending past the hull of the station? OR alternatively, could they have purposely put gravity on the shipyard for some reason? --[[User:Isidis|Isidis]] 08:42, 3 February 2008 (CST)
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| You're right about the smoke, I noticed that too. Except it wouldn't necessarily expand unless it were contained within something. It would just be ejected at the same constant velocity and direction at which the burning oxygen escaped from the ship into space.
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| If my memory serves me correctly, BSG now uses in-house visual effects, as opposed to contracting the work out to outside organizations such as [[Zoic]] or [[Atmosphere]]. In-house effects, while considerably cheaper, are traditionally of less quality.-- [[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 21:10, 3 February 2008 (CST)
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| :I should probably clarify this a little better. On Earth, the reason smoke rises as opposed to falling, is because the individual carbon atoms, which make up the vast majority of smoke, are lighter than the O2 atoms which make up the vast majority of our air, which forces them upwards. Because of this, smoke should never rise in space (in Razor, it not only is ejected, it curves and rises upwards, which is a physics gaffe). It should however continue at the same rate at which is was ejected (we're assuming this force comes from the force of depressurization).
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| :Smoke doesn't really expand either, it billows, which gives the appearance of it expanding. Faster moving smoke pushes slower moving smoke out of the way, which creates an oscillating mushroom cloud affect, hence billowing smoke. In space, because there is no air resistance to slow down smoke, it should never billow. Instead it should continue outward at the constant velocity at which it was ejected, due to Newton's first law of universal motion. -- [[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 22:28, 3 February 2008 (CST)
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| ::Ok, I forgot about something important. When the air depressurizes, it must deppressurize to zero in space. This has the added effect of splaying out the air in all directions away from the hull breach, as molecules and atoms move away from each other until they exert zero pressure force on one another. This happens very quickly. The vectors remain constant, meaning that you shouldn't even see the smoke after a while, as the atoms become so far apart at a certain distance that the human eye wouldn't be able to distinguish it.-- [[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 01:04, 4 February 2008 (CST)
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| :::There has to be a little suspension-of-disbelief here. In all likelihood they were trying to evoke imagery of a Pearl Harbor-like nature, and the fire and smoke are some of the visual cues. There are other nods to convention that wouldn't make sense in reality ... Doppler-effect engine sounds in space? Viper engines that are always burning (constant acceleration), and reverse thrusters a fraction of the force able to rapidly decelerate, and attitudinal thrusters that seem to magically chnge the ship's momentum as well? All nods to what we and the general audience have grown accustomed to seeing ...-- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 23:54, 5 February 2008 (CST)
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| == Pregnancy revisited ==
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| It isn't that clear, but in [http://www.segalpix.com/sections/battleSTAR/images/image_174.jpg this] promo pic she does appear to have a belly. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 19:24, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
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| : Yes, she's preggers. Costume department gave her the pregnant belly and everything. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 18:44, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
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| == Gaffes ==
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| We have a gaffes section for nearly every episode, why not for Razor? There is one gaffe at the least: during Starbuck and Showboat's flight back to the Pegasus, when Starbuck orders, "Alright, open up with all you've got; we're gonna shoot ourselves a hole" footage of a Viper Mark II's gun firing is used; however, Starbuck and Showboat are in Viper Mark VIIs. [[User:ZeldaTheSwordsman|ZeldaTheSwordsman]] 17:41, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
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| : Gaffes should go [[Continuity errors (RDM)|here]]. We also have a field in [[Template:Episode Data|the infobox]] that allows automatic linking to the gaffes page. Cheers -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 18:44, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
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| == Greystone in the goo?! ==
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| Can't believe this had not landed here yet. A smokin' hot debate as far as the identity of the mysterious Hybrid.
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| Hybrid Zero seems to bear quite an uncanny resemblance to Dr. Greystone in many regards. Some just see this is as a given. One wouldn't really understand this until they watched Caprica and then looked back to Razor.
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| If so the Cylons chose a very cruel however just fate for their 'father'.
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| Let's step back and ponder what a Hybrid even is. If a Hybrid is in fact all that remains of gruesomely tortured human prisoners perhaps the horrors of the transformation are what causes their ultimate catatonic state and 'insanity'. Interestingly this state seems to be something the Hybrid can choose to come out of when he or she chooses. Maybe they choose not to be lucid simply because that means thinking about what they once were. Better to be just zeroes and ones.
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| But somebody with cast iron resolute will like Greystone. Through this incredible willpower a man like Dr. Greystone would not be broken perhaps. However this might make his fate far more Hellish than the others. He refuses to look away from what he helped create.
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| == Cain's sister's fate? ==
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| One of those things you just... Feel.
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| Cain's sister vanishes. Presumed dead, but taken.
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| That Hybrid of the Rebel base star... Could it be? Moore seems purposefully vague as to the origins of Hybrids. If they are in fact vivisected human prisoners from the First War this makes you wonder.
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