Editing Talk:Class-D nuclear warhead/Archive 1

I really don't know what level of speculation is appropriate here. I wouldn't have gone off on this nuclear bomb design digression, except that the previous revision was really confusing and seemed to imply that the Class D was implausible, which I don't think it is. Battlestars are jumping around at faster-than-light speeds, is it such a stretch to believe the colonies have advanced nuclear reactors to produce exotic isotopes, and really powerful explosives to compress them to supercritical mass?

I don't know, maybe it would be best to just cut this article down to "here's what the class D was in the series. Gee whiz, it must use some kind of advanced technology."

[[User:Evan|Evan]] 21:33, 27 March 2006 (CST) (first edit here!)

:I think we need to clean this up (not because of you Evan).  You see they say "hm, should be 40 Class-D nuclear warheads there" but Adama later says they only have "five nukes" aboard Galactica, leading to the possibilities that A) There are different KINDS of warhead, and the BIG ones Adama was referring to were different, OR that when they ''actually got'' to Ragnar Anchorage, there were less warheads than they expected. Hmmm...--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 22:28, 27 March 2006 (CST)

:Based on reading up, it seems feasible. Our nukes were all designed rather a while ago, and sub-20kg would be doable with standard fissionable materials. A W54 was 23kg in 1961, and the Class-D was in a pretty big case. The yield is almost completely inestimable from available information, so the 1kt max for a W54 might even be close.
:Anyway, why do the colonials have suitcase bombs? Seriously, they are a bit puzzling motivation-wise. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 01:36, 28 March 2006 (CST)
::The main, real Class-D warhead used by the US, the W-28, weighed about 1800 lbs. Here's an interesting article on suitcase bombs. [http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/News/DoSuitcaseNukesExist.html] --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 06:17, 28 March 2006 (CST)
:::I'm not sure if you're claiming the US Class-D is the smallest nuke the US has possessed, but it was not even close. The link you point out confirms this readily. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 11:30, 28 March 2006 (CST)
::::I wasn't. I was pointing out that a real-life Class-D warhead is much to big to fit in a suitcase. The W-54 is much smaller than the W-28. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 12:01, 28 March 2006 (CST)

"Judging by the total instant destruction of the Cylon Basestar in Kobol's Last Gleaming, they would appear to have a yield in the megaton range." <--That's a misinterpretation of the explosion. First of all, what this "instant destruction"? A nuke explodes at essentially the speed of light, of course you'd be looking at instant destruction of the Basestar. And when you're blowing up something like a Basestar from the *inside*, you don't need nukes in the MT range. Considering the size of a Basestar (really not that big, especially compared to cities), its own onboard combustables and reactors and the incomplete vapourization of significant portion of the vessel, even a 20KT bomb would be more than enough do the damage observed. A MT-range bomb would've left *nothing* of the vessel, even a high KT-range bomb would've had you looking for the Basestar wreckage with a magnifying glass. Remember, a nuke exploding inside a target massively multiply the effectiveness of the nuke. I recommend editing out the estimated yield, period, and save the educated guess for when we've been sufficiently educated by additional onscreen material. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 15:15, 28 March 2006 (CST)

==Gina's nuke was not a Class D warhead==

I think we've overlooked this:  when Tigh is going through a manifest of what is ''supposed'' to be at Ragnar Anchorage, he says there ''should'' be 40 Class D nuclear warheads there.  --->In "Bastille Day", Adama says that "Galactica has 5 nukes left".  For ''already'' had a few of these, which would be removed when the crew left (they couldn't just be safely detonated like normal ordinance).  ***My point is, we don't know that those "5 nukes", one of which was given to Baltar who gave it to Gina, was actually a "class D warhead"; we don't even know if they actually found any of them.--->we go on at length talking about how it could or could not be a suitcase bomb, because the nukes that Galactica-Boomer and Gina used were that size; but we don't know that that is actually a Class-D warhead. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 14:12, 29 March 2006 (CST)
:Silly question, but does the miniseries use the phrase "Class D nuclear warheads" or just "Class D warheads"? There's a huge difference between the two, not all warheads are nukes. I also find it rather unlikely that the Colonial government/military would just leave that many nukes lying around an unguarded, half-abondoned, middle-of-nowhere depot, and none of the Galactica members seem to have freaked out at the idea that there was a thief onboard a station supposedly full of nukes (or wonder how he got there, suggesting that Ragnar wasn't exactly hard to get to). --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 21:07, 29 March 2006 (CST)
::I think they just say "Class-D warhead". I assumed they weren't nuclear due to the comments in "Bastille Day". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:14, 29 March 2006 (CST)
:You make a fine point. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 14:46, 30 March 2006 (CST)

::I tend to agree. I've just watched the Mini, and there is no mention of the class-D warheads being nuclear. It is quite concievable, and entirely more plausible- as stated above- that these warheads are either the "flak" type warheads we see being used in the Battle of Ragnar Anchorage, or another type of ammunition used by ''Galactica'''s main guns. I believe this page should be moved to another, with a more accurate title and re-written as such. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 08:07, 17 October 2006 (CDT)

::And, just for the record, the dialogue is as follows:

::Adama: It's a supr-bitch to anchor a ship there...
::Tigh: Well, the book says there are fifty pallets of Class-D warheads...   

::No mention of any nuclear ordnance... --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 08:11, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
@@ Line 14: / Line 14: @@
 "Judging by the total instant destruction of the Cylon Basestar in Kobol's Last Gleaming, they would appear to have a yield in the megaton range." <--That's a misinterpretation of the explosion. First of all, what this "instant destruction"? A nuke explodes at essentially the speed of light, of course you'd be looking at instant destruction of the Basestar. And when you're blowing up something like a Basestar from the *inside*, you don't need nukes in the MT range. Considering the size of a Basestar (really not that big, especially compared to cities), its own onboard combustables and reactors and the incomplete vapourization of significant portion of the vessel, even a 20KT bomb would be more than enough do the damage observed. A MT-range bomb would've left *nothing* of the vessel, even a high KT-range bomb would've had you looking for the Basestar wreckage with a magnifying glass. Remember, a nuke exploding inside a target massively multiply the effectiveness of the nuke. I recommend editing out the estimated yield, period, and save the educated guess for when we've been sufficiently educated by additional onscreen material. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 15:15, 28 March 2006 (CST)
-* I am not sure thet the Class D warhead is a nuclear Weapon. Because (like Madbrood remembered):
-::Tigh: Well, the book says there are fifty pallets of Class-D warheads...
-Galactica has five nuclear warheads as of "Bastille Day".  (not 50 pallets...)
-Isn't it possible that the Class D Warhead is the ammunition for the Main Battery? And further more it is the one seen at Ragnar that fell down and explodes? --[[User:Enabran|Enabran]] 11:18, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
-: Ditto. We had this conversation before, but nothing happened apparently... But, yes, the Class-D's shouldn't be nuclear in lieu of the other evidence presented.  -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 03:44, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
-: On the german Wiki I have created two diffferend pages: Klasse-D Sprengkopf and Nuklearwaffen. Maybe you should do the same on the engilish wiki --[[User:Enabran|Enabran]] 05:41, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
-:: Definitely an idea. Or we can just put the nuclear stuff in [[Weapons in the Re-imagined Series]]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 04:28, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
-::: If you do so, you could do the same with Class-D warhead...  --[[User:Enabran|Enabran]] 18:26, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
-:::: My guess is that the nuclear weapons are that: Miniseries 1:57:19: Tigh reads from his book: "The book says there's also 50 tons of quandal---"  --[[User:Enabran|Enabran]] 17:14, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
 ==Gina's nuke was not a Class D warhead==
@@ Line 36: / Line 19: @@
 I think we've overlooked this:  when Tigh is going through a manifest of what is ''supposed'' to be at Ragnar Anchorage, he says there ''should'' be 40 Class D nuclear warheads there.  --->In "Bastille Day", Adama says that "Galactica has 5 nukes left".  For ''already'' had a few of these, which would be removed when the crew left (they couldn't just be safely detonated like normal ordinance).  ***My point is, we don't know that those "5 nukes", one of which was given to Baltar who gave it to Gina, was actually a "class D warhead"; we don't even know if they actually found any of them.--->we go on at length talking about how it could or could not be a suitcase bomb, because the nukes that Galactica-Boomer and Gina used were that size; but we don't know that that is actually a Class-D warhead. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 14:12, 29 March 2006 (CST)
 :Silly question, but does the miniseries use the phrase "Class D nuclear warheads" or just "Class D warheads"? There's a huge difference between the two, not all warheads are nukes. I also find it rather unlikely that the Colonial government/military would just leave that many nukes lying around an unguarded, half-abondoned, middle-of-nowhere depot, and none of the Galactica members seem to have freaked out at the idea that there was a thief onboard a station supposedly full of nukes (or wonder how he got there, suggesting that Ragnar wasn't exactly hard to get to). --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 21:07, 29 March 2006 (CST)
-::I think they just say "Class-D warhead". I assumed they weren't nuclear due to the comments in "Bastille Day". --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 21:14, 29 March 2006 (CST)
+::I think they just say "Class-D warhead". I assumed they weren't nuclear due to the comments in "Bastille Day". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:14, 29 March 2006 (CST)
 :You make a fine point. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 14:46, 30 March 2006 (CST)
@@ Line 47: / Line 30: @@
 ::No mention of any nuclear ordnance... --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 08:11, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
-:::I recommend we mark this page for deletion then. It's factually incorrect and frankly is nothing more than a justification of the size of the warhead Baltar gave Gina. Since I don't know how to mark a page for deletion, I thought I'd ask here.--[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 23:42, 12 July 2007 (CDT)
-::::Marked it. By the way, it's <nowiki>{{Template:Delete}}</nowiki> --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 00:06, 13 July 2007 (CDT)
-:::::Thanks..I looked for it, but I'm so tired I probably overlooked it! Off to bed for me!--[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 00:17, 13 July 2007 (CDT)
-Does any of this content need to be relocated to other articles before it's nuked? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki &mdash; ''New'']</sup> 01:15, 13 July 2007 (CDT)
-:No, not really. Alternatively, we could just remove all the technical speculation, and only say that some are kept at Ragnar Anchorage and that maybe one of them is given to Gina. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 03:29, 13 July 2007 (CDT)
-== Cleanup done ==
-Per talk here, I've made a sizeable cleanup on this article, adding what we know and what we don't, and fluffing things up a bit. I removed the fanwank theory that existed here. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:40, 13 July 2007 (CDT)
-:Erm, it's still written "nuclear warhead" on the page. Did someone revert back to the erroneous page?
-:Other thing. Could it be possible that some warheads use compressed tylium as reactant, and are empty until loaded? --[[User:Mister Oragahn|Mister Oragahn]] 00:31, 19 May 2009 (UTC)