View source for Battlestar Wiki talk:Image tagging policy

==Screencap subtypes==
If we had subtypes for iTunes, Broadcast, DVD and HD captures, that would allow us to keep track of image quality and upgrade screencaps as better soure material becomes available. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 11:30, 14 April 2006 (CDT)
: Agreed.  Will implement. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 11:36, 14 April 2006 (CDT)
::I don't think that <nowiki>{{HD-screencap}}</nowiki> is adequate for both HDTV and DVD sources. I'd suggest the following Hierarchy (vertical resolution in parentheses):
::*iTunes (176 lines, widescreen)
::*NTSC Broadcast (480 lines, letterboxed to 360 lines)
::*PAL Broadcast (576 lines, letterboxed to 432 lines)
::*NTSC DVD (480 lines, anamorphic)
::*PAL DVD (576 lines, anamorphic)
::*HDTV Broadcast
:::*720 lines, widescreen
:::*1080 lines, widescreen
::*HD DVD/Blu-Ray
:::*1080 lines, widescreen
::I'll go ahead and implement this with your approval. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 16:18, 14 April 2006 (CDT)
:::Frack! --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:18, 14 April 2006 (CDT)
:::: :-/ --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 16:20, 14 April 2006 (CDT)
::::More thoughts before we get underway:
::::*We need a field to specify whether the image has been cropped from its original dimensions (as most of the one's I've uploaded have been). This shouldn't be too hard.
::::*Timestamps would also be good, so that later users can upload higher-rez versions more efficiently. Obviously it would be too onerous to go back and do this for every image in the database, but it should be available and encouraged for future uploads.
::::*It would be very nice if we could mark the episode source of each image and provide release dates for higher quality versions (scheduled HDTV airtimes, NTSC and PAL DVD release dates). We could do this by using the template to mark the episode of each image as a new category (something like <nowiki>[[Category:33 (Images)]]</nowiki>. We could then keep the Category page updated with availability information, perhaps synchronizing DVD release dates for half-seasons using a template. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 16:29, 14 April 2006 (CDT)

===Template Prototype===
A complete image tag should look something like this:


{| align=center style="background: #850000; border: 1px solid #a60003; padding: .2em; margin-bottom: 3px; width: auto;"
| rowspan="6" style="padding-right: 4px; padding-left: 4px; vertical-align: top;" | [[Image:BSGW SM camera.png|60px|]] || '''This is a NTSC DVD screen capture from the episode "33".'''
|-style="font-size: 90%"
|NTSC DVD screen captures are in anamorphic widescreen, with a native resolution of 480 x 720.
|-style="font-size: 90%"
|The horizontal dimension of this image has been scaled to 834 pixels for aspect ratio purposes.
|-style="font-size: 90%"
|The timestamp of this capture is MM:SS.FF
|-style="font-size: 90%"
|This image has been '''cropped''' from its original dimensions.
|-style="font-size: 90%"
|Higher quality versions of this image will be available on the following dates:
*PAL DVD: [release date]
*HD Broadcast: [broadcast date]
*HD-DVD: [release date]
|}

Notes:
*The message: "The horizontal dimension of this image has been scaled to 834 pixels for aspect ratio purposes." is relevant for current-generation DVD sources, and should be specified by a boolean field. If the field is left blank in the template, the above message shove be replaced with "The horizontal dimension of this image '''must be scaled to 834 pixels''' for aspect ratio purposes."
**For PAL DVD, that would naturally be 1024 pixels instead.
**If the field is left blank, the image should be added to a category, something like "Category:Images with incorrect aspect ratio".
*The message "This image has been '''cropped''' from its original dimensions." should also be specified by a boolean, and naturally should be omitted if the image has not been cropped.
*Release dates for higher-resolution images can be kept in sync via a series of templates, so these templates need only refer to <nowiki>{{ {{{episode}}}_PAL_release_date }}</nowiki>, for example.
*Images should be tagged with the following categories:
*#Category:Screenshot
*#Category:33 (Screenshots)
*#Category:33 (NTSC DVD Screenshots)
*Each of these should be a subcategory of the one listed above, to aid in sorting.

I know almost enough to implement this by myself, but I'll need some help with the aspect ratio if/then/else bit. I'm confidant that this can be a reasonably automated and efficient system. It doubt it will be as hard as it looks. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 17:00, 14 April 2006 (CDT)

:I don't think that the clever CSS hack used to implement hiddenstructures will work the other way around. I remember we eliminated the if_defined templates a while ago, and were glad to be rid of them, but do you think it would be justified to import [[Wikipedia:Template:Unless defined]] for the aspect ratio business? --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 18:18, 14 April 2006 (CDT)

:Wiki code has a bad "if" time. They are working on a policy to fix this problem. On another note, I think your ideas are sound. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 22:03, 14 April 2006 (CDT)

:: How about Template:Qif? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 22:28, 14 April 2006 (CDT)
:::How does it work? --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 02:41, 15 April 2006 (CDT)
:::Nevermind, I found it on Wikipedia. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 02:12, 16 April 2006 (CDT)

Well, mostly done. I've created five new tags: 
* [[md:Template:NTSC broadcast screencap|Template:NTSC broadcast screencap]]
* [[md:Template:PAL broadcast screencap|Template:PAL broadcast screencap]]
* [[md:Template:NTSC DVD screencap|Template:NTSC DVD screencap]]
* [[md:Template:PAL DVD screencap|Template:PAL DVD screencap]]
* [[md:Template:HDTV broadcast screencap|Template:HDTV broadcast screencap]]
And a series of broadcast/release date templates to help keep track of quality updates. I'll clean up the rest of this tomorrow - fill the category tags, create some miniseries release templates, and the NTSC broadcast templates so that we can round everything out with a new iTunes tag. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 05:12, 16 April 2006 (CDT)

:I think things are good to go. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 15:23, 16 April 2006 (CDT)
::Categories are set up. You can start with [[md:Category:Screen captures|Category:Screen captures]] and work your way around. Still need to create category pages for <del>HDTV and</del> iTunes clips, <del>document maintainence schedule,</del> and come up with a workable solution for TOS. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 20:29, 16 April 2006 (CDT)

==Maintainence Schedule==
Keep abreast of DVD announcement dates and update {{tl|Season 2.5 NTSC DVD release date}} as appropriate.

==TOS thoughts==
Well, the hierarchy of image quality for TOS should be much simpler, as we just have the NTSC vs. PAL DVDs to contend with. (I'm unaware of anybody capturing high-definition feeds of TOS episodes in 1080p, anyway...) Because of this, category issues, and the fact that TOS was shot in a 4x3 aspect ratio, I think we should have a separate pair of tag templates for TOS episodes. Current issues that spring to mind:
*What is our primary source for Galactica:1980 screen captures? If they've been released on DVD, we can probably reuse the same set of tags between TOS and 1980; otherwise, we'll probably have to figure something else out.
--[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 21:57, 16 April 2006 (CDT)

:As far as I know there has never been a DVD release of the 1980 episodes. As such, all screen captures should be considered broadcast quality (most likely NTSC, but I guess it's possible that PAL broadcasts occured). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:46, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

:I'm going to stay in a holding pattern regarding tagging TOS images until we figure out the pattern, at which point I might do an A to Z TOS category sweep. 99% of TOS pics I uploaded are NTSC DVD screen caps, so you're right that they should be fairly uniform and don't really have the same need for an "upgrade path" that the broadcast quality RDM caps might need. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:51, 17 April 2006 (CDT)
::"until we figure out the pattern"? --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 21:42, 17 April 2006 (CDT)
:::That is, I was waiting until you determine if TOS should have a separate Tag/Category/space/hieararchy... thing. I don't need you to create all the categories, necessarily, but if you could map out how you envision the TOS tag/categories will work, I can follow that "pattern". (So I guess by "we", I actually meant you. As opposed to the times when "we" means "I".) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:25, 18 April 2006 (CDT)

Here are a few "TOS thoughts... <s>by</s> with apologies to Jack Handley":

A TOS hierarchy would go something like:

* [[md:Template:TOS NTSC DVD screencap|Template:TOS NTSC DVD screencap]]
* [[md:Template:TOS PAL DVD screencap|Template:TOS PAL DVD screencap]]
* [[md:Template:1980 NTSC TV screencap|Template:1980 NTSC TV screencap]]
* [[md:Template:1980 PAL TV screencap|Template:1980 PAL TV screencap]]

I don't forsee a [[md:Template:TOS NTSC TV screencap|Template:TOS NTSC TV screencap]] (or PAL equivalent) because the DVDs are readily available. Thoughts? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 15:29, 18 April 2006 (CDT)

:Concur. While TOS has come on TV (I did my first episode summaries off of Tivo'd scifi channel), it's so uncommon and such an uncommon source that it'd be the exception (not the rule). That's half of what I needed to go on.

:The other half is the category setup. It looks like we'll need a new "Screen Captures (TOS)" and "Screen Captures (1980)" as children to "Screen Captures", then would by episode and format be necessary, since each of those shows is basically uni-formatted? We'd just need a "Screen captures by episode (TOS)" and 1980 if they want to break it down like that. Having looked at the slick template system that Peter set up though, I guess it wouldn't take any more effort to split them out by format if we wanted to be "forward compatible" with any new format situations with regards to "The Old Stuff". I may start in on this tomorrow, breaking ground on the TOS categories and incorporating them into the Screencap structure/hierarchy. Anybody is free to take up the 1980 banner, but if nobody else has gotten to it by the time I finish the TOS stuff I'll probably take care of those too. I envision this as being a pretty gradual process, and may lump it (at least the TOS ones) in with the OSAD stuff (so don't expect an overnight conversion like the Quotes: namespace). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:45, 18 April 2006 (CDT)

::I concur with Joe's thoughts on tagging. As for the categories, I'd prefer it if you'd leave it to me - I can make sure everything's consistant with what I've already implemented. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 19:12, 18 April 2006 (CDT)

:::No problem. That's the way I was leaning earlier with the "holding pattern", but I had thought you were objecting to my buck-passing. As it turns out... you want the buck. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:47, 19 April 2006 (CDT)

::::Is there a generic TOS tag yet for images? I was going to start tagging them but stopped because I wasnt sure where I was supposed to go on this? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 04:38, 25 April 2006 (CDT)

:::::I was still waiting... I don't think the TOS categories/tags/etc. have been set up by Peter yet. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:43, 25 April 2006 (CDT)

::::::My apologies for the delay. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 10:58, 25 April 2006 (CDT)
::::::Things are underway. Please wait for me to set up the categories (probably this afternoon/evening) before anybody begins tagging. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 10:58, 25 April 2006 (CDT)
:::::::Oops. Sorry. (Jumped the gun when I saw the NTSC TOS tag). I'll wait until further word before continuing. On the bright side, I got a chance to rescale some 720x480 images. The TOS tagging effort will be a good opportunity to catch any that aren't scaled correctly. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:35, 25 April 2006 (CDT)
::::::::That was my error. We shouldn't throw out information by scaling down; mediawiki can do that for us on the display end. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 12:56, 25 April 2006 (CDT)

::::::TOS is ready to go. Your continued patience on 1980 is appreciated. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 10:58, 25 April 2006 (CDT)

==Fair Use==
I copied Joe's wording on fair use issues into the new templates I made, but perhaps we should consider some stronger language, such as what Wikipedia uses on [[Wikipedia:Template:Tv-screenshot]]. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 00:59, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

== Nebula Sierra Tango Constellation? ==

I have no idea what PAL and NTSC stand for. I think one is US-formatting and one is for over seas? Should we include a link to the appropriate Wikipedia articles for things like this on the templates? --[[User:Day|Day]] <sup>([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]])</sup> 03:09, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

:NTSC (National Television Standards Committee) is the format common in the US. One of my CS professors joked that it stood for Never The Same Color. PAL (Phase Alternating Line) is more common globally, and sports a slightly higher (still) resolution. ([http://www.pcvsconsole.com/hank/answer/424.html link]). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:51, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

::Considerably higher - 576 vertical vs. 480; that is, enough that PAL DVDs are probably going to be our best image source for some time. That's why I felt the distinction was important. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 09:56, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

:::Horray for being British (PAL) I have the Minieries and Season1 dvd's and will get season2 as soon as its released over here so can get high quality screencaps if needed. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 07:53, 18 April 2006 (CDT)

== Screen captures requiring upgrade==
Right now, everything except HDTV sources are sent to this category. At the time I created it, I was thinking that we'd be able to get 1080i screen caps to place in the category, but apparently the best that can be found at present are 540 pixel high downscales. Since these are of roughly equal quality to NTSC and PAL DVD sources, I think that DVD tags shouldn't send images to the upgrade category - I'll make the change shortly, unless anyone objects. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 18:07, 19 May 2006 (CDT)
:I concur with this change. DVD screencaps shouldnt be added to the "Screen captures requiring upgrade" category --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 18:14, 19 May 2006 (CDT)
::Done. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 12:12, 20 May 2006 (CDT)