Editing User talk:Sauron18

Welcome to the wiki, Sauron18. Feel free to say a few words about yourself on your User page. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:52, 24 December 2005 (EST)

You were looking for a higher res image of this... ;)
[[Image:Image_lg_bgcast.jpg|100px]]
--[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 14:54, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

:Ooh, thanks. That's perfect =) --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 18:56 24 April 2006

== Kudos ==

Great image: [[:Image:FTL1.jpg]]. Props for that. --[[User:Day|Day]] <sup>([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]])</sup> 23:06, 26 June 2006 (CDT)
:Haha, thanks :) I didn't cap it though, just found it somewhere ;) --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 07:32 27 June 2006 (CDT)
::Where did it come from. Credit will be needed unless we remake the image ourselves. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Mercifull|E]])</sup> 07:35, 27 June 2006 (CDT)
:::A livejournal user called "ariane179254". Actually, I did normally credit the original capper before, but every time I did other users from here would go in and remove the name of the user from the credits, so I stopped doing it because of that, otherwise I'd had continued.  And if someone could clear up the credit thing it would be nice, because when I put it in it was taken out, and when I didn't.... I just crop them. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 09:15 27 June 2006(CDT)

:::: Credit belongs on the Image's page and, as long as it's a cap from the show, I think we just credit Universal with one of the templates. You might bring this up on Requested Images or something so it's more visible to folks. --[[User:Day|Day]] <sup>([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]])</sup> 15:43, 27 June 2006 (CDT)

== Reply ==

Hey Sauron18, this is Homeworld616.  I just wanted to thank you for that mind-blowing map and Merovingian's theory you sent me.  I had no idea people actually calculated that stuff.  I think its awesome, so thanks!  By the way, I didn't know if you had checked the reply I gave on my talk page so in order to make sure you got it I left one on your page as well.  I'm new here, so I could be doing something wrong by posting a reply here.  Tell me if that's the case.  Anyway, thanks for the map!  If you haven't already seen it, I made an article called [[Unnamed Cities of Caprica]].  Check it out if you are interested.  See ya. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 10:28, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

::Hey, it's perfectly alright to post here :). Ah yes, it was mainly Merv's calculations, which I found to be pretty cool, mainly because I don't feel like they're really moving in space unless I see a map ;p. That's also why I loved your article, because I had a similar feeling with Helo and Sharon in Season 1 --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 18:00 28 June 2006 (CDT)

:::So you loved my article!  That feels good.  [[User: Peter Farago|Peter]] liked it too.  The Merovingian actually thought there was too much detail in my descriptions, but he was okay with that as long as Peter supported the article.  I'm a bit curious to find out your reaction to my level of detail, as reactions have ranged from "excellent" to "too much."  In case you weren't aware, (which I bet you are at this point), Spencerian thought that he could use your map and Merv's calculations in his article [[Science in the Re-imagined Series]].  I checked it out earlier today and it is an extremely cool part of this wiki.  Also, I had the same feeling you had regarding Helo and Sharon's movement.  I actually thought they were in the same city (namely, an older section of Caprica City), until I saw some talk pages and I found out that there were two unnamed cities entirely separate from Caprica City, which of course, was BLOWN UP.  I'll talk to you later.  Homeworld out ;). --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 19:36, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

::::I think it was an excellent article, I didn't know it was 2 Cities, and I had never actually thought too much about where they were walking, since it felt like they were always in the same place, so it really helped with the positioning of their trail, helped me imagine how they were sort of running deeper towards the continent, away from the sea, so that was quite cool --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 20:22 28 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::All right, my curiosity has been appeased.  I'll keep you posted if I roll out any new articles.  I'm trying to plan some rigt now.  It's frustrating, however, because whenever I remember a detail from the series (i.e. [[The Colonial Gang]],), I find that there's already an article on it!  About five ideas of mine have been terminated abruptly by preexisting articles.  Oh well.  Consequences of not joining the wiki for a while.  I've got a new lead, however, and I'll see if it's been written up.  I'll keep you posted. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 01:20, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::Jackpot!  Not really, but my new lead was articleless, so I got to create another one!  I just wrote and posted the article [[Caprica Beach]].  It's a stub so it will probably take you 10 seconds to read, if you want to of course.  Contact me if you mind other cool stuff ;).

== Awesome Findings ==

I was just looking back at the Caprica City article when I noticed the images you put up there.  NICE WORK!  Those are awesome, and so clean and detailed.  I can't believe you found such a golden source for those photos.  Also, those images helped me to clear up some of the city locations and gave me a better "feel" for the city's layout.  You've done some great work improving the articles here.  Just wanted to let you know how thrilled I was with your work. :) --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 18:31, 13 July 2006 (CDT)
:Thanks, I'm glad you liked them :) --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 10:39, 16 July 2006 (CDT)
::No problem.  I'm surprised they didn't use those images in the Miniseries, whoever made them was a whiz. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 10:24, 20 July 2006 (CDT)

== Colonial Toasters are Real Toasters! ==

[[Image:BSGToaster.jpg]]

See that Colonial toaster, which you must since this image is a whole ton of pixels.  I was in a kitchen shop the other day (don't ask why) and, believe it or not, I saw the ''exact same brand of toaster'' for sale, from the style to dial to the doubl-slots to the "evil red eye" (the activation switch).  This brand of toaster is made by Dualit, although their logo appears to have been edited out for the series (appropriate, since if viewers saw an Earth corporation in the Colonies it would lead to crazy theories surfacing on Internet forums).  Can you believe the reality of this??? I have to buy that toaster now! --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 23:58, 24 July 2006 (CDT)
*Really? That's cool, and funny. Oddly enough, that toaster always reminded me of Six's metal case which she carried around in the miniseries (And "Epiphanies"). There was also some debate with Starbuck's Hummer in "VOD" (I think it was) Maybe you should include a mention of it in the "Toaster" article (Even if it is one of the Silly ones:p).--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 01:12, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
:I think I will put it in the Toaster article, although it is a good question as to ''where.''  I suppose I could insert it in a "Notes" section.  I'll investigate the article now. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 22:49, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
:Hmmm...There is a character box with an entry for "Parents."  I suppose Dualit could be used for a parent, although that implies asexual birth, and sort of destroys an inside joke.  Spencerian wrote that the Toaster's parents were "Proctor-Silex," which is another one of those appliance companies.  I left a note on the talk page, although knowing my luck no one will respond.  If no one says anything in three days, I make a Notes section. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 23:00, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
::Add the parent's names Homeworld. Anyway, I just found [http://www.dualit.com/content.asp?page=/catalogue/productRange.asp?categoryCode=15 this](It's the two slice one). They covered up the stamped name on the front and side with the plate that's screwed in right above Helo's wrist in the pic above. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 23:04, 25 July 2006 (CDT)

== Sharon images ==

How can you tell what specific model of Sharon the image is of, since they both look the shame? --[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 18:42, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
:I made the judgement based on who accompanies them on the full promo shot. There are only two photos in which we are absolutley sure it's Shagathon (because we see her with Helo), but in all the others she's with the Cylons, which makes me guess it's most probably Boomer, especially since we haven't seen Shagathon with the Cylons in a long time. It's a cool image btw, nice job in editing out the rest of the stuff.--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 19:40, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

== iTunes Caps ==
Most of your requests are from "Torn"? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 17:37, 15 November 2006 (CST)
:Yes, it's the episode with a whole bunch of new things for the Cylons. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 17:49, 15 November 2006 (CST)
::The first one in the batch is actually from "Collaborators", now that I've checked, but the other 3 are from "Torn" :P --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 06:41, 16 November 2006 (CST)

== Recent rollback ==

Sauron, I rolled back your change to [[Final five]]. No information supports the assumption that Cylons or any other sentient non-humans were priests that were dedicated to the Temple. As such, we can only assume that priests, as previously defined in the canon, cannot be anything but human until aired information says otherwise. ''Battlestar Galactica'' has only two humanoid forms, Cylon and human, and the humans didn't exist yet. Listen to Roslin's description again when you have the chance. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:26, 27 January 2007 (CST)
:You mean that Cylons didn't exist yet. But yeah, everything points to them being human --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:40, 27 January 2007 (CST)
::I'm not saying they're Cylons, and I'm not saying they're humans. My main point was that we don't need to specify what they are, even if we knew what they are, when they lived and all that. It might make readers take assumptions that are not necessarily true. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 13:06, 27 January 2007 (CST)
:::This is the actual line from the episode......


:::'''Roslin:''''' “There’s really not much on the eye in these scriptures, but there’s several interesting stories about the temple, listen to this: ‘Five pillars of the temple were fashioned after the five priests devoted to the one who’s name cannot be—‘”''


:::Now, I'm not saying "They're Cylons" or anything, but I do wish to point out that saying they are human priests is an unnecessary assumption. We don't know when they lived, what they did, or who they are, and while they might simply  be human priests who took some drugs and did their thing, they might not. The fact is, saying they are anything other than priests is as much a fanwank as saying they are Cylons, and while they might be, we really have only the line to go by. It's just one word, but it makes a great difference if we add "human" to it, because that's our interpretation, and not the actual truth. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 13:16, 27 January 2007 (CST)

::::While saying "human priests" or "priests" doesn't make much of difference in the end, you can't really imply or assume that they're aliens or whatever. In the BSG universe there are only humans and Cylons, nothing else. It doesn't make any sense to speculate that they are something else. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:21, 27 January 2007 (CST)
:::::I know, but I'm saying we don't know anything about them other than they were priests for whom the temple was built. That is all we know, and that is all we should have. Removing the word human protects us from being wrong in any case and doesn't affect the overall message. All I'm saying is, given the nature of Colonial scripture, we should not theorize and post as fact, even if it's the most logical thing. Let's just put what it says, the bare and simple truth. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 13:26, 27 January 2007 (CST)



:::::::Okay, how about we put this to replace that whole line?

:::::::'''''"According to Colonial scripture, "Five pillars of the temple were fashioned after the five priests devoted to the one whose name cannot be--". The rest of the line is unheard, but it is possible they may have worshiped another Lord of Kobol."'''''

:::::::It's just the bare quote, which also shows that the next part of the notes is speculation and presents only the actual facts while clearly marking what is an inference. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 13:45, 27 January 2007 (CST)

== Cylon origins contradiction ==

I noticed you removed an edit on the question of Cylon origins, indicating that the note that Cylons do not appear to be in control of the biotechnology that created the humanoid was speculation in contradiction of sources.   I am curious as to what the sources are, and why this is speculation?   There are many scenes there they express their frustration at being unable to breed or make new cylons.

I added that because I thought the line before it was the one that was speculation -- that the humanoid cylons were build mostly or solely by the mechanical ones who revolted.   Other than the line "They evolved" is there anything else I have missed in the show that backs that up?

We all have our theories on the origin of the Cylons, but I wanted to enumerate what we have really been shown.  Right now we have not been shown anything about how the humanoids were made, or by who, other than D'anna's talk of "the one who programmed us" and their other talk of God.  In addition, they show none of the biotech skills that would be associated with creating the humanoids, such as being able to breed or create new models.   

So why isn't the first line speculation, or, as I thought was appopriate, should not the two alternatives be outlined?--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 15:00, 3 February 2007 (CST)
:I removed it because it contradicted sources, specifically certain podcasts (I think the one of "Torn" and others) as well as interviews in which RDM stated that they only created 12 models because those are all the ones they wanted to create, not because they couldn't create anymore, but because they specifically wanted 12. 

:He also mentioned that they can make copies and copies of themeselves, as well as new Cylons again and again, meaning they do know how to use the technology to make new bodies and make new Cylon Consciousnesses. 

:Another thing he said was that the whole breeding program was not out of necessity, but out of a part of their culture. The Cylons who want to feel alive, and are apparently the majority, feel that they can't really call themeselves a "people" until they've created children.

:As I said on the edit note, I removed it because sources already contradicted that, and on a milder side because it was fanwankery, a fan-inferrence. That they were built by the other Cylons is really quite supported if not downright factualized (if that's a real word...) by the intro, as well as other sources, which at least makes it more than fanwankery. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 15:10, 3 February 2007 (CST)
@@ Line 2: / Line 2: @@
 You were looking for a higher res image of this... ;)
-[[File:Image_lg_bgcast.jpg|100px]]
+[[Image:Image_lg_bgcast.jpg|100px]]
 --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 14:54, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
@@ Line 22: / Line 22: @@
 ::Hey, it's perfectly alright to post here :). Ah yes, it was mainly Merv's calculations, which I found to be pretty cool, mainly because I don't feel like they're really moving in space unless I see a map ;p. That's also why I loved your article, because I had a similar feeling with Helo and Sharon in Season 1 --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 18:00 28 June 2006 (CDT)
-:::So you loved my article!  That feels good.  [[User: April Arcus|Peter]] liked it too.  The Merovingian actually thought there was too much detail in my descriptions, but he was okay with that as long as Peter supported the article.  I'm a bit curious to find out your reaction to my level of detail, as reactions have ranged from "excellent" to "too much."  In case you weren't aware, (which I bet you are at this point), Spencerian thought that he could use your map and Merv's calculations in his article [[Science in the Re-imagined Series]].  I checked it out earlier today and it is an extremely cool part of this wiki.  Also, I had the same feeling you had regarding Helo and Sharon's movement.  I actually thought they were in the same city (namely, an older section of Caprica City), until I saw some talk pages and I found out that there were two unnamed cities entirely separate from Caprica City, which of course, was BLOWN UP.  I'll talk to you later.  Homeworld out ;). --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 19:36, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
+:::So you loved my article!  That feels good.  [[User: Peter Farago|Peter]] liked it too.  The Merovingian actually thought there was too much detail in my descriptions, but he was okay with that as long as Peter supported the article.  I'm a bit curious to find out your reaction to my level of detail, as reactions have ranged from "excellent" to "too much."  In case you weren't aware, (which I bet you are at this point), Spencerian thought that he could use your map and Merv's calculations in his article [[Science in the Re-imagined Series]].  I checked it out earlier today and it is an extremely cool part of this wiki.  Also, I had the same feeling you had regarding Helo and Sharon's movement.  I actually thought they were in the same city (namely, an older section of Caprica City), until I saw some talk pages and I found out that there were two unnamed cities entirely separate from Caprica City, which of course, was BLOWN UP.  I'll talk to you later.  Homeworld out ;). --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 19:36, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
 ::::I think it was an excellent article, I didn't know it was 2 Cities, and I had never actually thought too much about where they were walking, since it felt like they were always in the same place, so it really helped with the positioning of their trail, helped me imagine how they were sort of running deeper towards the continent, away from the sea, so that was quite cool --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 20:22 28 June 2006 (CDT)
@@ Line 38: / Line 38: @@
 == Colonial Toasters are Real Toasters! ==
-[[File:BSGToaster.jpg]]
+[[Image:BSGToaster.jpg]]
 See that Colonial toaster, which you must since this image is a whole ton of pixels.  I was in a kitchen shop the other day (don't ask why) and, believe it or not, I saw the ''exact same brand of toaster'' for sale, from the style to dial to the doubl-slots to the "evil red eye" (the activation switch).  This brand of toaster is made by Dualit, although their logo appears to have been edited out for the series (appropriate, since if viewers saw an Earth corporation in the Colonies it would lead to crazy theories surfacing on Internet forums).  Can you believe the reality of this??? I have to buy that toaster now! --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 23:58, 24 July 2006 (CDT)
@@ Line 95: / Line 95: @@
 :Another thing he said was that the whole breeding program was not out of necessity, but out of a part of their culture. The Cylons who want to feel alive, and are apparently the majority, feel that they can't really call themeselves a "people" until they've created children.
-:As I said on the edit note, I removed it because sources already contradicted that, and on a milder side because it was fanwankery, a fan-inferrence with no clear anchor on the show. But it was mainly because of the contradictions --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 15:10, 3 February 2007 (CST)
+:As I said on the edit note, I removed it because sources already contradicted that, and on a milder side because it was fanwankery, a fan-inferrence. That they were built by the other Cylons is really quite supported if not downright factualized (if that's a real word...) by the intro, as well as other sources, which at least makes it more than fanwankery. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 15:10, 3 February 2007 (CST)
-:: Well, I would differ and say it's pretty well established they don't know how to breed and consider it a top priority.  However, I mainly wanted to know where this was from -- thanks for the answer.  It would be lovely if people summarized the podcasts I guess or they did transcripts.   Based on real world biology I find it surprised to imagine having the tech to make whole new humans that can't be detected as different by a doctor, but to be unable to do basic breeding but I agree that's a supposition, not something documented.  Because my suspicion is that older beings were involved in creating the bio-cylons, I remain curious of what the justification in the show/podcasts is for the statement I was attempting to balance, that the original mechanical models had a major or sole role in creating the humanoids.  If there is no justification that should also be tagged or removed as a speculation, I would imagine.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 17:43, 3 February 2007 (CST)
-:::There are podcast transcripts right here: [[Battlestar Wiki:Podcast Transcripts]] --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:20, 3 February 2007 (CST)
-::::Thanks, I'm pretty sure it's in the podcast for "Torn", and the interview is on the Cylon page. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 19:48, 3 February 2007 (CST)
-:::::Just read the Torn transcript.  It has that the Cylons can make more of their existsing models does not say they can make wholly new models, that must be elsewhere.  It doesn't add anything about where the biotech came from.  I've always been of the view the Cylon biotech is really advanced, light years ahead of the colonials.  Too far advanced in fact that it was silly of them to nuke the colonials when that level of biotech could have wiped them out far more easily.  Yet they can't deal with a simple virus, or cure Hera.  It doesn't make sense -- unless they got the biotech from somewhere else, such as earlier generation Cylons from the Kobol war, for one speculation.  But I would be interested to see if anything in the show contradicts that.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 00:43, 4 February 2007 (CST)
-::::::The podcast says they can make more copies, which means they have the tech to make more bodies and consciousnesses. The interview says they only have 12 models because of cultural reasons, not scientific. The point in this is that they have the tech, and the ability to use it, but they don't do it because they don't want to, not because they can't. They are machines, they evolved. That is what we know, and what we have in the article. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 01:25, 4 February 2007 (CST)