Editing Template talk:Episode Data

==Apply to all Episode Guides==
Is this template intended for use in all episode guides? If so, I'll likely start in converting the TOS and 1980 pages. Would duplicate/redundant info be removed from the "Stats" section at the bottom? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:29, 6 January 2006 (EST)
: Yes, this should be applied to all episode guides.  The Stats at the bottom should be removed as well.  (Actualy, this template is supposed to remove that section, as I think it was fairly ugly to begin with anwyay... IMHO, of course.) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 12:39, 6 January 2006 (EST)
::Template updates completed on the RDM episodes to last aired (1/6). There is still the matter of using a version of this to pretty up (and condense the data on) the [[Miniseries]] article, and Steelviper and Co. have been working hard on updating the TOS articles. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:54, 9 January 2006 (EST)
::Template updates completed on the TOS and 1980 sides as well (not that it's a competition or a race or anything... but your progress on the RDM side was pretty motivating). I think we're good to go as long as we keep applying it forward. We just need a few pictures for filling in the template (TOS and RDM), but I think those will come quickly (especially with all the recent help that has been going on with the TOS side!). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 17:06, 9 January 2006 (EST)

==Formatting==
Joe, the template works and looks generally good, except in the formatting guest stars. Steelviper figured out how to add multiple guests, but the width of the template on the page, once done, really makes a page butt-ugly, or at least unbalanced. We may need to limit the area to guest names (no characters), or use actor names with redirects to their character if a page exists to shorten the page. We need to set a picture size maximum as well. Thoughts on this? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:36, 6 January 2006 (EST)

: Yeah. I think we should fix the width of this thing at about 300px (to allow the largest thumb size), and spoecify some padding and margins to it. Right now, on [[33]] the text inside and outside the template run right up tot he [[Red Line]] and, to me, looks bad (italics leans over the line). I also think, a la the [[Template talk:Character Data|Character Data talk page]], we should lay out some guide-lines... I think the pic at the top of the template should always be a wide-screen shot of a whole frame from the episode. Anything taller will bulk this up enormously. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:25, 6 January 2006 (EST)

:: Agreed. For the guest stars, the format should be: Actor Name (Character). We should probably avoid any titles or ranks; though, if we do use ranks, we should abbreviate them. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 14:57, 6 January 2006 (EST)

:::I think ranks are more problematic than they're worth. Three things come to mind immediately:
:::#Ranks can change - thus, an S1 cast template that specifies Lee Adama as captain won't be useable on episode which take place after his promotion to major.
:::#What about episodes in which a promotion takes place? Goerge Birch was both a Lieutenant and a Captain in Home, pt. I
:::#What about civillian "ranks"? 
:::In general, I'd just rather not open the can of worms. (And the width thing is a serious issue. Why don't we separate the cast date and put that on the bottom of the page, leaving the image, airdate and episode order on top?) --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 15:18, 6 January 2006 (EST)

After seeing the results, I think that this new template is unwealdy and we should stop using it.  It scrunches the top of each article (simply making them look awkward), and we can't fit in the full name and title of several characters.  I think it's more trouble than it's worth.  Does anyone agree? --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:53, 6 January 2006 (EST)

: As Peter stated, ranks (and, to an extent, titles) are more problematic then they're worth. (We can always do what the [http://midwinter.com/lurk/lurker.html Lurker's Guide to B5] has done and put the guest characters immediately after the overview/summary.) Also, the issue that makes the template "unwieldy" is the damn table of contents box which fills the top of the page... I think we need to compact it. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 16:06, 6 January 2006 (EST)

::For an example of a page without a TOC in the upper left, see [[Galactica Discovers Earth, Part I]].  I haven't added back in the (empty) analysis, official statements, etc. so there isn't a TOC up there. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 16:10, 6 January 2006 (EST)

:::A compact TOC is not the solution - it will look fine as soon as we remove the cast info from the template and place it somewhere in the text. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 23:41, 6 January 2006 (EST)

I agree that the template is too wide. My suggestion would be to place the guest stars elsewhere in the article (near the bottom maybe), and to make the episode chronology a seperate template. It could go at the bottom of the page (like memory alpha has it) and replace the template that lists every episode, which is going to be ridiculously big in a couple of seasons time.--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 20:47, 7 January 2006 (EST)

:No idea if this has already been said, but I don't like the size of the font. [[Template:Ship_Data|This template]] is a good example of the size of the text that I think is better than this bold text. Also we should always wikicode the templates. I put up a number of examples on how they are created. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 12:13, 20 March 2006 (CST)
::I also noticed that there should be a <nowiki> valign="top" </nowiki> where special guest is so it's not in the middle of the listings if there is more than one. More visusally appealing. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 13:25, 20 March 2006 (CST)

==Guest Stars==
I strongly feel that cast information needs to be removed from this template. If anyone disagrees, we should call a vote. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 18:46, 9 January 2006 (EST)

: I agree. Maybe, if someone wishes a compromise, we could decide on some filtering of guests. I mean... "Micheal Hogan (Saul Tigh)"? I wouldn't have guessed. I don't think anyone else listed in the template on "[[33]]" needs to be at the top of the page. Now, if we had some one-time guest star, that might be worth mentioning. Or some character that doesn't show up very often at all, like Cain or someone, then I could see a case for making a big deal of it. However, listing all the 2nd tier characters as guest stars is only slightly different from listing all the 1st tier characters and we're not listing all of ''them'' at the top of every episode article. --[[User:Day|Day]] 10:18, 10 January 2006 (EST)

:: I agree with Day. If you go to sci-fi.com's episode pages, down the bottom along with writer, etc, is special guest stars (except for episodes with no special guest stars). There are only 3: Richard Hatch (season 1 only, I guess he's not considered a special guest star after as he's too regular), Michelle Forbes, and Lucy Lawless. I suggest we change "guest stars" to "special guest stars" and go with these. The TOS pages do not have this, but I'm sure those familiar could work out some equivalent guest stars.--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 03:35, 20 January 2006 (EST)

:: So if I went ahead and moved guest stars from the template to the body of the articles (and added special guest star for the few episodes with one, see above), would anyone have a problem with it? --[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 03:27, 31 January 2006 (EST)

:::Which episodes explicitly list "special guest stars"? --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 04:00, 31 January 2006 (EST)

::::[[Bastille Day]], [[Colonial Day]] ([[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]).
::::[[Final Cut]] ([[Lucy Lawless]] as [[D'anna Biers]]).
::::[[Pegasus (episode)]], [[Resurrection Ship, Part I]], [[Resurrection Ship, Part II]] ([[Michelle Forbes]] as Admiral [[Helena Cain]]). --[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 05:51, 31 January 2006 (EST)
::::edit: oops, missed [[Epiphanies]] ([[Colm Feore]] as President [[Richard Adar|Adar]])
::::[[Black Market]] ([[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]], [[Bill Duke]] as [[Phelan]])
::::Weird that Richard Hatch is listed for some episodes he's in, and not others, like Home

:::::Interesting. Well, no problem if you want to go ahead. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 10:21, 31 January 2006 (EST)

It's done. By the way, it may now be feasible to reduce the width of the table a fraction, though I wouldn't be the one to do it. --[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 20:46, 31 January 2006 (EST)

== Population ==

I would like to expand the template to include the population of the fleet as listed in the opening credits of each episode (I suppose this would apply only to RDM Season 2 at present).  Any objections / thoughts?  My proposed modification to the code would look like this:
<pre>
|-class="hiddenStructure{{{Population}}}"
| style="white-space:nowrap;" | '''Population'''
|colspan=2 | {{{Population}}} Survivors
</pre>
…and be placed between DVD Release and Chronology.  I have created a [[User:Mayosolo/Template:Episode Data|mockup]].  If folks approve the idea, I'd be happy to tackle making the changes to the episode entries as well.

-- [[User:Mayosolo|Mayosolo]] 03:05, 20 January 2006 (EST)

: Great idea.--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 03:36, 20 January 2006 (EST)

:: Done. -- [[User:Mayosolo|Mayosolo]] 15:49, 21 January 2006 (EST)

== Nielsen ratings ==

Not sure if this is really the right spot to ask this, but I couldn't think where else. I've added the ratings to episode pages for season 2 from gateworld, but their news doesn't go far back enough to find out the ratings for all but the last episode of season 1. I've found ratings from tv.com for the early episodes of season 1 (though I'm not sure how reliable they are), but I can't find ratings for the others. Anyone know a good site to find nielsen rating information? --[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 23:18, 4 February 2006 (EST)

== Hard Coded ==

Alot of the Data, including the inter-wiki links are hard coded. This could be done right in the template so the only thing people have to worry about is the data. I know some things can't be hardcoded, but I know there is a way for "Case Switching". I just have to look it up, as it would have to be a "Case Switch" for the "Series". This would make for none-familiar people to create a Data Block and not worry about that extra field that they may have to enter. I know the only problem is we have to go back and fix all the shows, but in the end you might like the difference when creating each page. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 23:57, 17 March 2006 (CST)

Also, any disabution text that can mean more than one thing, should go above the Episode Data template. Not below it. This makes it much clearer than it being in the middle of the valley. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 00:09, 18 March 2006 (CST)



== R&D skits ==

The skits are directly related to most of the episodes, but have nothing to do with the show itself so I removed all the skits from the notes section, but I would not object to it being placed in this template as we do with the podcast transcription page. Thoughts? --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 09:43, 30 August 2006 (CDT)
:I concur. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 10:00, 30 August 2006 (CDT)
::I agree, as per my comments about this very same thing on a different page., --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 10:08, 30 August 2006 (CDT)
:::{{Support}} Pretty high on the tangent factor, but since Scifi has seen fit to post them, I don't see why we shouldn't link to them. Links to the specific skits in the "data" part, with the "R&D Skit" header linking to the summary page? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:11, 30 August 2006 (CDT)
:::It could be always. There is always a skit. Just that "Related Information" would always be on. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 10:14, 30 August 2006 (CDT)
::::Well, in a way, it is related information. And, were I not sidetracked by difficult duty, I would have suggested this earlier. Damn you Shane... ''damn your intelligence''. :-P -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 17:39, 30 August 2006 (CDT)

== Deleted Scene ==
Another thing that can go under "Related Information" is "[[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)]]". Any objections? --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 18:14, 3 September 2006 (CDT)

== Capitalization ==

"Re-imagined Series" and "Original Series" should always be in Title Case. I've returned the templates to this per wiki convention for these pseudo-proper nouns. --16:55, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

== SciFi.com Link ==

Right now some of them are in External Links section. Anyone else think we should move it to this box? --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 09:43, 15 October 2006 (CDT)

== New Feields/Design ==

Over at [[User:Shane/Testing Area 2]]. Enjoy! [[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 10:19, 28 February 2007 (CST)
:Changes:
:* Flags in front of the airdates
:* A new field for the population count from the previous episode
:** Change in pop. count is automatically calculated and preceded by an up/down arrow (of which the images are missing, BTW)
::Thought I'd sum it up. Looks good BTW. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 10:34, 28 February 2007 (CST)
:::K i made some arrows for you, uses the same colours as the recent changes page --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 11:09, 28 February 2007 (CST)
::::Good. Ready for integration if you ask me. Adding the previous population count to each episode is gonna be a bitch, though. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 12:22, 28 February 2007 (CST)
:::::I'll be updating the template with the changes discussed here today. Any help is welcome. If anyone wants to help, start from [[Maelstrom]]. I am starting from [[Miniseries, Night 1]]. [[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 11:31, 11 March 2007 (CDT)
== Design Collapsed ==
[[User:Shane/Testing_Area]] is ready to be implemented here on the English Wiki. I would like feedback on the design. The area which is still "up to debate" is the extra related information. [[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 11:37, 27 August 2007 (CDT)

== Internal chronology vs. broadcast chronology ==

How about, in addition to broadcast/production chronology, adding a field for in-universe chronology? It might not have been much of an issue in the past, since both were the same, but might be useful now with "[[Razor]]" (set between "[[The Captain's Hand]]" and "[[Downloaded]]"), "[[Razor Flashbacks]]" (set between ''[[Caprica (series)|Caprica]]'' and the "[[Miniseries]]"), as well as the future [[proposed TV movies]], which will take place in various points of time. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 23:33, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
: It might be worth considering, but not worth implementing until we obtain more information from far more reliable (and official) sources. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 23:35, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
::Also arc. They do this on MemoryAlpha, and it's something I was thinking about for a while. But it be a massive thing to do. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 23:38, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
::My other real concern is the massiveness of the infobox. It's already overly complicated already, and actually can use some paring down. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 23:56, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Could some space be saved by some horizontal organization? Something like a 2x2ish table (or whatever css equivalent) for the related info box, or any other fields that might be able to fit side by side within the box? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 00:36, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
::::Not worth the effort. Where do you place "Act of Contrition" or "Unfinished Business", at the frame story or during the flashback events? What about "Razor", whose flashback events take place simultaneously with multiple events throughout the miniseries and first season, or "Downloaded" with events both immediately after the Miniseries as well as nine months later? --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 06:49, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::Of course the flashback episodes should be placed where the framing (latest) story within them takes place. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 09:09, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
::::I'm with Peter on this. Having slept on it, I too feel that isn't worth the effort, simply because of the episodes he mentioned above are scattered in two or more different places in the chronology. (The Razor Flashbacks also suffer this problem, since they're set both at the last day of the Cylon War and the first day of the Fall of the Colonies.) Just simply too much effort, and it can easily devolve into a [[clusterfrak]]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 15:34, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::I also think we shouldn't bother with this. First because we have the timeline articles already, and second because one of the proposed TV movies might take place over the course of multiple episodes (like the comics that take place "somewhere between Home, Part II and Pegasus"), which would screw up the entire effort again. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 22:05, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

== switch between BSG and Caprica on official summary ==

Hi,<br/>I made some changes on the French [[:fr:Modèle:Infobox Épisode|Episode data template]] to include the difference between RDM and Caprica official summaries on the Syfy website. I cannot modfy this one because I'm not sysop, and this template is protected, so you can use the French template for example to make the change on the English one. --[[User:LIMAFOX76|LIMAFOX76]] 08:27, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
: I'm working on this now... however you're going to need to change the template, as the URL schemes for the episode summaries on both the BSG and ''Caprica'' sites differ... 
: The url scheme for Syfy's BSG site: http://www.syfy.com/battlestar/episodes/episodes.php?seas=1&ep=101&act=1
: The url scheme for Syfy's ''Caprica'' site: http://www.syfy.com/caprica/episodes.php?seasonid=1&episodeid=101
: You can see the issue, I believe... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 18:19, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
:: Done. --[[User:LIMAFOX76|LIMAFOX76]] 07:29, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

== Official summary links broken. ==

All the official summary links are broken. It seems Syfy has redone their site. For example for RDM episodes this template uses the following expression <code> http://www.syfy.com/battlestar/episodes/episodes.php?seas={{{season}}}&ep={{{production}}}&act=1 </code> to produce the corresponding link <code> http://www.syfy.com/battlestar/episodes/episodes.php?seas=4&ep=403&act=1 </code> for episode 403. (This link now gives a 404 page not found).

Now, it seems when Syfy has redone their site, they moved all the old content from www.syfy.com/ to media.syfy.com/. And they created total new content on their redesigned site. So this leaves us with two different kinds of summary pages which we can link to. For example check the difference for the episode 403 summary page. 

<code> http://media.syfy.com/battlestar/episodes/episodes.php?seas=4&ep=403&act=1 </code><br />
<code> http://www.syfy.com/battlestar/episodes/season/4/episode/403/he_that_believeth_in_me </code>

This template can be updated very easily to point to the old media.syfy.com/, that would fix the problem. But I suppose linking to the newer pages is better is a better option as the episode summaries are more detailed, and at a later point of time syfy might eventually get rid of the older pages. To do this we would need some kind of expression like. <code> http://www.syfy.com/battlestar/episodes/season/{{{season}}}/episode/{{{production}}}/{{{urlencode:lc:title}}} </code> (I am not sure about how to convert the episode title into lower case, and spaces into underscores.) [[User:CylonU87|CylonU87]] 08:01, 14 August 2011 (EDT)

: And for Caprica's episodes the content at www.syfy.com/ and media.syfy.com/ seems to be the same. So both <code> http://media.syfy.com/caprica/episodes.php?seasonid=1&episodeid=102 </code> and <code> http://www.syfy.com/caprica/episodes/season/1/episode/102/rebirth </code> seem to work. [[User:CylonU87|CylonU87]] 08:24, 14 August 2011 (EDT)