Editing Talk:Viper tally/Archive 1

Wait, I have a problem. If there were two squadrons of Mark VII Vipers on board the ship, wouldn't that mean that there were at least sixty vipers on board when the Galactica went to Ragnar? Where is this elusive and suddenly phantom Mark VII Viper Squadron? --[[User:Volostheguardian|Volostheguardian]] 15:30, 23 August 2006 (CDT)

:If memory serves, a squadron is 20 Vipers. The only ''active'' Vipers aboard ''Galactica'' at the time of its decommissioning were these last Mark VIIs, all of which are destroyed near Caprica. I don't believe there were TWO Mark VII squadrons, so this source is needed. There was a museum squadron of 20 Mark IIs. It ''is'' possible for additional Viper Mark VIIs to have been left aboard the battlestar, but may or may not have been in immediate flying condition. The civilian caravan also shows three Mark VIIs in its group, suggesting that other Fleet fighters escaped to join ''Galactica''. This has to be a tiny number, however, so the total of repaired and fleeing fighters ''could'' make up the number. I get the feeling that your question has been asked before. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:47, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
::There might have also been more Mk IIs in storage in the starboard pod, in the hanger as opposed to the flight deck. That happens all the time in real museums, we only see some of the collection, the rest are in storage. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 17:22, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
:::I mean, in addition to the squadron they scramble for the first sortie. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 17:23, 23 August 2006 (CDT)

I think it's more accurate to say there was only one active squadron left aboard Galactica at the time of the miniseries, and the remaining mMk VII's were refugees.  The reasons for this are:

1. The squadron is explicitly stated to be the "last active squadron" aboard Galactica during the flyover sequence at the decommissioning ceremony.[[User:Dallan007|Dallan007]] 20:55, 22 February 2007 (CST)

2. The museum pieces are pressed into service.  It's never stated anywhere that Gaeta or anyone else figured out that the Mk VII's were vulnerable at the time the Mk II's were put back on the line.  Starbuck and Adama's conversation on the bridge just prior to this states that they have pilots, but no Vipers to fly.  They don't say, "The Mk VII's are vulnerable so we can't fly them."  Starbuck says they have no vipers.

3. The squadron of Mk VII's seen at the climax of the miniseries could have been refugees from other ships, broken out from storage aboard Galactica, repaired, etc. 3 are accounted for visually in shots of the civilian fleet.  Lee's viper aboard Colonial One could constitute a fourth.  It's more plausible that there were more refugee Mark VII's, rather than a second, unused squadron aboard Galactica.  Certainly if there was a second squadron, it would have been scrambled as soon as war broke out, if nothing else to fly CAP around Galactica.
:I agree that there was one 20-ship Viper Mk II squadron at the time of the attack. Galactica's last active squadron was the one led by the CAG, Ripper, flying to the planet to be reassigned. There could have been a couple Mk VIIs sitting around, likely not able to fly or else they'd be ferrying back to a base with the others. I'd say that the Mk VIIs would be the ones with the civvie fleet, Apollos (which was onboard Galactica, [[Viper 7242|a Mk II]] was aboard Colonial One, plus a couple that were down for repairs. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 21:47, 22 February 2007 (CST)
:Also, don't forget that there are refugees from other ships in the Fleet, like [[Crashdown]]. He must've somehow made his way from the dying/destroyed Triton to Galactica. Therefore it's perfectly reasonable to assume that a couple of surviving Mark VIIs from other battlestars managed to find the Fleet. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 07:02, 23 February 2007 (CST)
::Not really, since Raptor's have jump engines but Vipers do not. The three Mk. VII vipers in Roslin's fleet are an enigma. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:36, 23 February 2007 (CST)
@@ Line 14: / Line 14: @@
 :I agree that there was one 20-ship Viper Mk II squadron at the time of the attack. Galactica's last active squadron was the one led by the CAG, Ripper, flying to the planet to be reassigned. There could have been a couple Mk VIIs sitting around, likely not able to fly or else they'd be ferrying back to a base with the others. I'd say that the Mk VIIs would be the ones with the civvie fleet, Apollos (which was onboard Galactica, [[Viper 7242|a Mk II]] was aboard Colonial One, plus a couple that were down for repairs. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 21:47, 22 February 2007 (CST)
 :Also, don't forget that there are refugees from other ships in the Fleet, like [[Crashdown]]. He must've somehow made his way from the dying/destroyed Triton to Galactica. Therefore it's perfectly reasonable to assume that a couple of surviving Mark VIIs from other battlestars managed to find the Fleet. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 07:02, 23 February 2007 (CST)
-::Not really, since Raptors have jump engines but Vipers do not. The three Mk. VII vipers in Roslin's fleet are an enigma. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 11:36, 23 February 2007 (CST)
+::Not really, since Raptor's have jump engines but Vipers do not. The three Mk. VII vipers in Roslin's fleet are an enigma. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:36, 23 February 2007 (CST)
-:::You don't really need jump drives. Vipers are fast ships, and the Fleet wasn't far away from the battle. Colonial One even picked up Boomer's Raptor, which was quite close to the main fight. With stranded ships all over the place, it wouldn't take a Viper that escaped from the battle long to find a ship, dock with it and be picked up by Roslin's fleet. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 16:58, 23 February 2007 (CST)
-:::Agreed.  This is supported by the fact that Roslin's fleet initially contained both FTL and sublight only vessels.  Sublight vipers could easily have joined up with ships en route to Roslin's location, or even found their way to the fleet on their own. The possibility that this fleet would accumulate a small group of vipers is also feasable given their numbers. Given 120 battlestars with 80 or more vipers aboard, the cylons would still have achieved over a 99% kill rate with 15-20 survivors. [[User:Dallan007|Dallan007]] 23:18, 1 March 2007 (CST)
-== Worth having? ==
-Is this page worth having? Frankly, it's next to impossible to keep track of the numbers of Vipers in the Fleet, and it seems an exercise in futility that really doesn't matter much given the arrival of ''Pegasus'' and the fact that it was capable of making Vipers before the Bonehead Maneuver. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 02:07, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
-:Agreed. It might have been useful once, but can be deleted now. Even as a retrospective view, it's really not that interesting. Same with [[Talk:Raptor tally|Raptor tally]] -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:52, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
-:Ok, I'll wait a week to see if more people chime in before we delete it, or not. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 13:56, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
-::{{vd}} It's futile --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 17:47, 7 May 2008 (UTC)