Editing Talk:Viper Mark II/Archive 1

==Powerplant==

It seems to me that the engine type should be a hybrid of rocket and jet engine. Rockets use a mix of two internal fuels, an actual propellant and an oxidizer. It appears maybe, to save fuel the Vipers' powerplants have intakes to grab oxidizer from the atmosphere when necessary. What's everyone else's opinion? - [[User:Panther|Panther]] 20:59, 17 August 2006 (CDT)
:Well one of the [[Naturalistic science fiction|Goals of the series]] is to not really worry about how the ships run.  --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 21:05, 17 August 2006 (CDT)
::No shit, eh? ;) Still one of the joys of being a sci-fi fan is to speculate on the tech. I gotta wonder though are those fans on the sides inside the engine nacelles intake fans? That would make it a jet. :D [[User:Panther|Panther]] 03:35, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
:::I agree with you completely, Panther. My joy is to make articles such as [[Computers]] to glean what we do know. The intakes, as we should properly guess, is a holdback from the original TOS Viper design. It just looks like a jet fighter. I do believe your idea of getting oxidizers whenever possible helps, although we know as well that it's more likely to maintain status quo on the excessive fuel use inside an atmosphere. In space, they may or may not need a real oxidizer, but then, that's the magic of [[tylium]]. We don't know WHAT the hell it really needs. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:43, 18 August 2006 (CDT)

== FTL in Vipers / the Blackbird ==

The Viper (RDM) articles say that the Vipers do not have FTL. However, it was seen several times in the miniseries that they do:
*Apollo links the shield generators onboard Colonial One with the FTL on his Viper to pull of the trick that makes it look like they are destroyed.
*Boomer jumps back to the fleet with the Tyllium refinery ship in tow.
There have also been several occasions in the series, I just can't think of them at the moment. Obviously, the Vipers do have some sort of short-range, limited-use FTL. What does everyone else think? --[[User:KenoSarawa|KenoSarawa]] 18:46, 12 November 2006 (CST)
:Umm, I don't remember Apollo doing, that. I'll go watch it again. Boomer is flying a [[Raptor]] which does have FTL. There has been no mention or showing that Vipers carry FTLs. Doubtless Apollo would be searching for ships like Boomer was if his did. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:41, 12 November 2006 (CST)
::Okay, went and watched it. He said he used the hyperdrive to manipulate it. If it was the Viper's FTL, it sticks out among the consistant non-FTL Vipers we've seen many times in the show. There are times when a short range FTL would've been used if it existed: the fighters running to Galactica in [[Act of Contrition]], Apollo's strike team in [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]], etc. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:54, 12 November 2006 (CST)

== Steering a viper ==

Two things seen or mentioned in the Episode ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]) are that,
firstly, Vipers have some kind of "Thruster pedal" (Adm. Adama sais so while speaking to Starbuck about her knee being the reason for letting her not participate) and secondly in the scene where Apollo flys through the shaft you can see in one scene that he sees an obstacle, pulls the joystick backwards, and in the next that some kind of reverse thrusters are fired without pulling up the ship's nose.
So one can think that forward thrust is on a pedal and reverse thrust on the "pitch" axis of the joystick?
That they use the same terms like normal fighterplanes is said by Starbuck while she was crawling in the Cylon-fighter on board the moon she stranded on. - [[User:Destotelhorus|Destotelhorus]] 17:40, 9 January 2007 (CST)
:Real spacecraft have six basic degrees of freedom; pitch, roll, yaw, and thrusting back and forth along each axis.  This means that a six degree of freedom pilot input system is needed.  Pedals tend to be associated with controlling the rudder on aircraft, but in a dual-role craft which can handle both space and atmospheric flight, it would make sense for rudder pedals to drive an actual rudder control surface in atmospheric flight and to operate yaw thrusters in space.  

:NASA space craft from Apollo onwards (maybe Gemini too but I'm not sure) used a pair of joystick-like devices for the six axis controls.  The right-hand stick is similar to a typical joystick but it can also rotate clockwise and anti-clockwise around its shaft.  This controller is called the Rotation Hand Controller (RHC) and controls pitch, roll and yaw.  The left hand stick also provides 3 degrees of freedom but has a somewhat different design and is known as the Translation Hand Controller (THC).  

:I imagine the Viper joystick operates like the RHC, except in only 2 axis.  The yaw axis is controlled by the pedals.  There would also have to be an additional control that would operate as a combination throttle (for atmospheric flight| and THC (for translation manoeuvres in space).    The pilot works the stick with his right hand, the throttle/THC with his left and rudder/yaw thrusters with his feet.  

:As for what the actors do during manoeuvres, it's probably from the "waggle the controls and try to look cool" school for acting, I wouldn't read too much into what you see them doing and how it relates to how the spacecraft moves.  After all, having forward thrust on a pedal and reverse thrust on the stick makes no sense, an aircraft designed like that would be totally counter-intuitive to fly. 
--[[User:PassiveSmoking|PassiveSmoking]] 17:43, 6 February 2007 (CST)
@@ Line 5: / Line 5: @@
 ::No shit, eh? ;) Still one of the joys of being a sci-fi fan is to speculate on the tech. I gotta wonder though are those fans on the sides inside the engine nacelles intake fans? That would make it a jet. :D [[User:Panther|Panther]] 03:35, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
 :::I agree with you completely, Panther. My joy is to make articles such as [[Computers]] to glean what we do know. The intakes, as we should properly guess, is a holdback from the original TOS Viper design. It just looks like a jet fighter. I do believe your idea of getting oxidizers whenever possible helps, although we know as well that it's more likely to maintain status quo on the excessive fuel use inside an atmosphere. In space, they may or may not need a real oxidizer, but then, that's the magic of [[tylium]]. We don't know WHAT the hell it really needs. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:43, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
-:During the miniseries Tyrol says something along the lines of "The reactors are still hot, all we have to do is pull the rad buffers and fuel them".  So maybe it's not a chemical reaction that provides thrust but a nuclear-driven one, or an electrical one powered by a nuclear reactor.  Possibilities are raw fuel being pumped through a hot reactor, the heat causing the fuel to expand, thus creating thrust.  Another possibility is ion-propulsion, where atoms of fuel are ionized by a strong electrical field and accelerated out of the spacecraft by a strong magnetic field.  Of course tylium is described as being highly explosive, and neither heating or ionizing would require an explosive fuel, so...--[[User:PassiveSmoking|PassiveSmoking]] 17:48, 6 February 2007 (CST)
-side note: the engines seen in the hangar bay are Rolls Royce Allison 250's (with some other bits welded on) which is a helicopter engine (power turbine). Also, the last picture in the gallery of the instrument panel has a torque indicator from a Bell 206. Seems like the set decorators and builders got their hands on an old Jet Ranger! (If that is of ANY interest to ANYONE), but I thought I'd mentino it.--[[User:Darkensee|Darkensee]] 03:26, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 == FTL in Vipers / the Blackbird ==
@@ Line 16: / Line 14: @@
 :Umm, I don't remember Apollo doing, that. I'll go watch it again. Boomer is flying a [[Raptor]] which does have FTL. There has been no mention or showing that Vipers carry FTLs. Doubtless Apollo would be searching for ships like Boomer was if his did. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:41, 12 November 2006 (CST)
 ::Okay, went and watched it. He said he used the hyperdrive to manipulate it. If it was the Viper's FTL, it sticks out among the consistant non-FTL Vipers we've seen many times in the show. There are times when a short range FTL would've been used if it existed: the fighters running to Galactica in [[Act of Contrition]], Apollo's strike team in [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]], etc. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:54, 12 November 2006 (CST)
-:::He used the hyperdrive of Colonial One to manipulate the coils from Galactica in the cargo bay.  At no time does he mention his Viper.  --[[User:Maserati1945|Maserati1945]] 01:16, 07 February 2007 (CST)
 == Steering a viper ==
@@ Line 32: / Line 29: @@
 :As for what the actors do during manoeuvres, it's probably from the "waggle the controls and try to look cool" school for acting, I wouldn't read too much into what you see them doing and how it relates to how the spacecraft moves.  After all, having forward thrust on a pedal and reverse thrust on the stick makes no sense, an aircraft designed like that would be totally counter-intuitive to fly.
 --[[User:PassiveSmoking|PassiveSmoking]] 17:43, 6 February 2007 (CST)
-== B&C Vipers ==
-FYI, the Vipers in Blood and Chrome are actually Mk. IIIs, not Mark IIs. (You do see the occasional Mark II in there.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 15:23, 9 November 2012 (EST)
-:Where is that information coming from? We see normal RDM Mk II's fighting in the last day of the war and every Mk II detail is there on these Vipers from the rescue handle to the divets halfway along the leading edge of the wing, just different from what we saw before. Unless they've been called Mk IIIs elsewhere, all they seem to be is a retconned redesign, which is why I stuck that information in a notes section. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:01, 9 November 2012 (EST)
-: From the script, and I've spoken to some of the folks who made the show (I've already seen the entire thing). Both Mark IIs and Mark IIIs were in service, as there were multiple types of ships in the war. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 16:04, 9 November 2012 (EST)
-:: That works. Thanks, Joe. I had been frantically googling for interviews or whatnot that called them that, even before I posted the note in the Mk II page in the first place. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:06, 9 November 2012 (EST)