Editing Talk:Viper (TOS)/Archive 1

Boy, a ''lot'' of this information is non-canon.  Someone needs to go in here and note this.
 
:Stick it on the [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad|Citation Jihad]] so we don't forget.  -- [[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:47, 2 January 2006 (EST)
 
:I've gone through and cleaned out all the fanon and unsourced information.  If there's anything that I've missed, please feel free to clean up after me.  -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 15:40, 14 September 2006 (CDT)
 
== "Breaking" flaps? ==
 
In context the phrase should be "braking flaps", not "breaking flaps".  Is it deliberately misspelled that way in the original script and that's why it's worded that way here?  -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 18:39, 12 February 2007 (CST)
: I'll double check, but I believe the spelling comes from the DVD subtitles for "Saga of a Star World". -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 23:57, 12 February 2007 (CST)

== Dimensions? ==

I'm pretty sure the dimensions listed are incorrect, what is the source for them?
Reson being, Length is listed as "Approx 8.7M", which is only slightly larger than the New Series Viper MkII at 8.4M.  However, a casual comparison of the cockpits of each would seem to indicate, even with a cramped compartment, the Original Series Viper should be at least 25%-30% larger than the New Series Viper.
: I've just remembered reading something that Susan Paxton discovered about the Viper mockups and the actual Viper models built by Apogee not being scaled correctly. As for the actual measurements, I believe they came from a warbook entry in "Living Legend, Part I", where Sheba and Bojay come across Apollo and Starbuck. However, with the impending server maintenance in 3 days, I don't have the kind of time right now to rummage through my DVD collection to find the scene. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 18:38, 29 March 2007 (CDT)

Okay, I just went and messed around with a couple 3D models I have and put together this[url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v341/HandofBobb/Vipers.jpg]comparison[/url].
Now, granted, these are fan-made models, but they're fairly accurate, and correspond to most toy/model images I can find.  The pilot figure in both cases is the same Poser model, Michael 3, at the same scale.  As you can see, even with the Original Series Viper at roughly 130%, he's pretty cramped in there, while there's plenty of room in the new Viper. -[[User:HandofBobb]]
: Unfortunately, many of the CGI meshes are actually, well, wrong in terms of scale. This is because they're based on the Monogram model kits and the Viper mockups which aren't accurate. (Conversely, however, I should note that the Raider kits were so accurate that they were actually used in the series for many of the later episodes.) See http://geocities.com/sjpaxton/viper.html for what I'm speaking of. (There's also a bit more on Paxton's site that may be of interest. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 05:26, 30 March 2007 (CDT)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 Boy, a ''lot'' of this information is non-canon.  Someone needs to go in here and note this.
-:Stick it on the [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad|Citation Jihad]] so we don't forget.  -- [[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 13:47, 2 January 2006 (EST)
+:Stick it on the [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad|Citation Jihad]] so we don't forget.  -- [[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:47, 2 January 2006 (EST)
 :I've gone through and cleaned out all the fanon and unsourced information.  If there's anything that I've missed, please feel free to clean up after me.  -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 15:40, 14 September 2006 (CDT)
@@ Line 17: / Line 17: @@
 Okay, I just went and messed around with a couple 3D models I have and put together this[url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v341/HandofBobb/Vipers.jpg]comparison[/url].
-Now, granted, these are fan-made models, but they're fairly accurate, and correspond to most toy/model images I can find.  The pilot figure in both cases is the same Poser model, Michael 3, at the same scale.  As you can see, even with the Original Series Viper at roughly 130%, he's pretty cramped in there, while there's plenty of room in the new Viper. -[[HandofBobb]]
+Now, granted, these are fan-made models, but they're fairly accurate, and correspond to most toy/model images I can find.  The pilot figure in both cases is the same Poser model, Michael 3, at the same scale.  As you can see, even with the Original Series Viper at roughly 130%, he's pretty cramped in there, while there's plenty of room in the new Viper. -[[User:HandofBobb]]
-: Unfortunately, many of the CGI meshes are actually, well, wrong in terms of scale. This is because they're based on the Monogram model kits and the Viper mockups which aren't accurate. (Conversely, however, I should note that the Raider kits were so accurate that they were actually used in the series for many of the later episodes.) See http://geocities.ws/sjpaxton/viper.html for what I'm speaking of. (There's also a bit more on Paxton's site that may be of interest. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 05:26, 30 March 2007 (CDT)
+: Unfortunately, many of the CGI meshes are actually, well, wrong in terms of scale. This is because they're based on the Monogram model kits and the Viper mockups which aren't accurate. (Conversely, however, I should note that the Raider kits were so accurate that they were actually used in the series for many of the later episodes.) See http://geocities.com/sjpaxton/viper.html for what I'm speaking of. (There's also a bit more on Paxton's site that may be of interest. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 05:26, 30 March 2007 (CDT)
-I'll easily concede that the 3d meshes aren't entirely accurate, but according to that article "To begin with, the sfx model is several scale feet longer than the Monogram viper"- which means there would be even MORE of a difference in lengths.
-Again, my original claim was based on a simple visual comparison of the cockpit sizes in relation the the length of the nose, I was simply using the 3d models to illustrate that point.  I also have two of the licensed figures on my desk, and though they are the same 'size' it's readily apparent that they are not 'in scale' with each other.
-Actually, I just pulled up my 3d model of the Original Viper, and it actually has two of the features which that article points to the monogram model missing:
-"the sfx viper’s nose seems to have a very subtle curve leading into the nose intake"
-"The laser cannon on the sfx viper are almost mounted evenly between the top and bottom of the fuselage"
-I'll avoid posting another image unless requested, as the veracity of the 3d models is not actually the main thrust of my argument, but I felt the need to share in this case. -[[HandofBobb]]
-==RDM Series cameo==
-Given that the other Vipers in the RDM Series are labeled Mark II and Mark VII, it is possible that the Original Series Viper
-appearing in the miniseries was intended to be a "Viper Mark I".Just my two cents. [[User:ZeldaTheSwordsman|ZeldaTheSwordsman]] 16:14, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
-: That's a possibility, but we don't know that for certain. The appearance was so fleeting that it could mean anything, and therefore it's best just to leave it up to the reader to decide whether or not that cameo was a "Mark I" or not. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 16:56, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
-::It's true, though, that there has to be a Mark I before there can be a Mark II. [[User:ZeldaTheSwordsman|ZeldaTheSwordsman]] 02:40, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
-::: It may have been intended as a "Mark I," but I rather not go assuming such things, given that assumptions are the mother of all frakups. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 02:46, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
-==Landing Mechanism?==
-I haven't seen the original BSG series for YEARS (in fact I barely remember it) but I was just wondering - are Vipers ever shown landing or being otherwise recovered in the original series? Would it not be worth noting how they get back to their Battlestar somewhere in this article? Or, if applicable, how such a recovery is never shown on screen?--[[User:HuDaFuK|HuDaFuK]] 06:45, 17 November 2011 (EST)
-: Vipers typically landed on the battlestar like the Re-imagined Series, with the landing gear deployed. We never actually saw them "touch down," but we did see them enter the landing bay. Viper recoveries by shuttle weren't seen in the series, likely because of budget issues and the time it would take to actually produce a visual effect with models. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 12:08, 17 November 2011 (EST)