Editing Talk:Uniforms (RDM)/Archive1

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== Viper Pilot's Wings ==

What is the insignia that Colonial Officers wear on their uniform on the left side of their chest.  It's diamond shaped, and some have sort of wings on the top, and some on the bottom.  I have wondered what each signifies, or whether they are Viper Pilot's Wings, which I thought Kara mentioned in "You Can Never Go Home"(not sure of the name) [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 21:12, October 17, 2005 (EDT)
:Apollo takes his off and pins it on Hotdog in "You Can Go Home Again." Just from the dialogue in that scene, I'd say they Wings. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 22:50, 17 October 2005 (EDT)
::See, that's what I'd say too, but I think Gaeta and others have the same insignia...it doesn't seem to me that it should be so common.


Adama, Tigh, Fisk, and Cain have the "wings-on-top" insignia, possibly designating a command role. Gaeta's counterpart aboard Pegasus also wears the wings. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:23, 23 January 2006 (EST)

On the Wings issue, I would suggest that Lee's are Standard Viper Aiviator Wings(VAW? could we get away with that?), and William and Sauls Pilot wings are Senior Viper Aviator Wings(SVAW)--[[user:Jetstorm316|Jetstorm316]] 21 Febuary 2006.
:Yes. This has been confirmed by Bradley Thompson in the Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques. I therefore suggest the references to the "Surface Warfare Badge" be removed, as well the statement that the senior wings aren't worn by pilots, but "fleet officers".<br> 
:Galactica just doesn't have very experienced pilots on active duty. Pegasus' CAG can be seen with senior wings: http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:Bscap168.jpg --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 02:54, 14 September 2006 (CDT)
::Well, Starbuck for example is a very experienced pilot (possibly the best in the fleet) and former flight school instructor as well. And yet she still wears shorter, junior wings. If she hasn't got "extensive experience in flying small crafts", then who has?<br>
::The statement that the senior wings aren't worn by pilots, but by "fleet officers", also seems to be incorrect: Stinger wears senior wings and Apollo always wears junior wings, even when being commander and ''Pegasus''' CO.<br>
::And one more thing: if these wings are for '''pilots''', then why Dualla and Gaeta are wearing them? -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 00:18, 10 November 2006 (CST)
:::Pilots '''are''' fleet officers too, you know. I think the implication that senior wings are for command officers has been removed some time ago, as it was indeed wrong. Gaeta might have learned to fly Raptors in officer's school. Dualla is more weird. Maybe she had some basic Raptor training in the missing year, but it's weird. In LDYB she didn't have any wings though. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:42, 10 November 2006 (CST)
::::I've just checked it - the only episodes in which Dualla is wearing pilot wings are "Occupation" & "Precipice". Either before or after that she doesn't wear any. And speaking of LDYB - in the end of LDYB II she's wearing...Colonel pips! Looks like it's prop department's major screw-up. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 18:46, 11 November 2006 (CST)
::::::Errr, wrong. I don't have pics atm, but they aren't Colonel pips. Rather some entirely new pin we've never seen before. There is another diamond in the middle instead of a a colonial Phoenix. Maybe some sort of brevet rank, but it's an anomaly --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 04:58, 12 November 2006 (CST)
:::::::Yeah, you're right. I have the [http://galacticastation.com/Screencaps/S2/220/bscap495.htm picture] and for me it looks like Lieutenant Colonel rank pins (mentioned a month ago by Bradley Thompson). Probably an error since Dualla is definitely Lieutenant in Season 3. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 23:14, 14 November 2006 (CST) 
::::Gaeta is occasionally seen without wings as well, like during the ceremony at the end of the Miniseries. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 13:14, 10 November 2006 (CST)
:::::Yes, but that's the exception, not the rule. Gaeta wears pilot wings almost constantly. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 18:46, 11 November 2006 (CST)
:::::This seems to be a major prop issue, as Lee can't seem to make up his mind:
:::::[http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=175&pos=363 LDYB, Part II (Commander Lee)]
:::::[http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=191&pos=40 Season 3 Promo (also Commander Lee)]
:::::So who knows... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:03, 10 November 2006 (CST)
::::::I asked this in the BW:OC and Bradley Thompson said that they deliberately gave him Senior Wings with his promotion to Commander, saying that he earned them through his flight experience up to that point. But it seems they got screwed by the prop departement in Season 3, as he couldn't answer why he is back to Junior Wings then. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:08, 10 November 2006 (CST)
:::::::I've just checked it - the only episodes in which Lee is wearing senior wings are LDYB I & II. Either before or '''after''' that he wears junior wings. Looks like it's prop department's screw-up, as in Dualla's case. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 18:46, 11 November 2006 (CST)
Just to add something else, Cottle doesn't have wings in both AMOS and in the scene from Hero in the "Introducing Bulldog" video blog. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 13:05, 11 November 2006 (CST)
:Of course, neither has Commander Barry Garner - they both aren't pilots after all. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 18:46, 11 November 2006 (CST)

I took some pretty pics for this: [[Image:Senior_wings.jpg|150px]][[Image:Wings.jpg|150px]] --dancing_salad 19:01, 23 February 2006 (EST)

== Dress Uniform RDM ==

I know this has not been discussed much, but as far as I can see, Military Dress falls into these topics 

A) Parade Dress - Normal Bridge uniform with a "leather like" sash with medals earned. 

B) Bridge Officer - as above but without sash, with or without pilot wings, pending Viper Pilot Training. 

C) Khaki - a universal standard, mainly adopted by colonial non-coms, a black armband if Military Police with MP shown. 

D) Deck Crew - an orange jumpsuit with a black "hold-all" waist coat. 

E) Desert Combats - whats the deal with this? any ideas? --[[User:Jetstorm316|Jetstorm316]]

: Here is what I can add

: A) These are known as Dress Greys and fullfill the same role as the Full Dress Blues in the USN.<br>

: B) These are Blue with a different cut than the Greys. Except for Hoshi, all "Junior Officers" (Major and Below) wear the Diamond with the downturned wings and Colonel and up wear the larger spread wings. These are like the USN Service Dress Blue in that they can be worn on watch and are still formal enough for some ceremonies (like in Pegasus). <br>

: C) Mainly seen on Marines and a few random bridge and hallway extras. The OD uniform seems to be the standard uniform for the fleet and is like the Working Khaki in the USN. These can be worn be officers and non-coms alike and seem to be the most formal uniform available for the non-coms. For the officers, it's like an undress uniform. <br>

: D) There are also yellow uniforms of this type. Jammer wears one. <br>

: E) When have we seen DCUs?, all there have been is Black BDUs and Urban MARPAT copies. <br>
: --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:50, 21 February 2006 (EST)

: I'm inclined to be in Talos's camp, especially on item E. Why are you creating an issue out of a non-issue? Even mentioning it is pure speculation, fabrication, and over-think at this point. If TPTB depict a desert scene, and roll out a new uniform for it, then you've/we've got our topic to pursue and document. If they ''never'' do a desert scene, then that's their perrogative. Either way, any pursuit of this topic (item E) is a complete waste of time at this juncture. 

: We also have to keep in mind... this is a ship/fleet with limited resources, under durress, and a fractured sense of protocol and structure. Yes, they (the military) will try their utmost to keep to standards, but as even Admiral Adama concedes... he's not one for demanding protocol at all times. They (the crew) might have limited caches of uniforms, of pins, of medals, of patches, and are ''making do with what they have on hand'' (which isn't much, considering one ship (''Galactica'') was destined to be interred as a museum piece, and the other (''Pegasus'') was in the midst of a refit). Certain crewers (Hoshi, for example) ''might'' have different pins because they are from different previous postings, now pressed into service at that post because of need, and there's no point in such a petty detail of changing a pin. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 15:11, 21 February 2006 (EST)

I forgot about Jammer, thanks for that input, Talos, well brought up.  Would this mean he'd have a different role on the hanger deck (Orange = Maintenance, Yellow =?) from Cally.
As for the desert Combat Dress(DCU), I may have got my wires crossed, but I can remember the security chief wearing a similar style in "Litmus".  But you may very well be right on topic E).
Hmm, food for thought, but interesting non the less..-- [[user:Jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]
:Hadrian was wearing the khaki version of item C in both [[Act of Contrition]] and [[Litmus]]. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:54, 21 February 2006 (EST)
::Also, on the same subject as Hawke, didn't Roslin have Adama's Admiral insignia made by a jeweler? --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 17:11, 21 February 2006 (EST)
But on that note, did Admiral Adama give his son Lee his old Commander Pips?--[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]
:I like to imagine so, although it was probably for reasons of sentimental value instead of necessity--they had insignia for Fisk and Garner by some unknown means. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 03:16, 22 February 2006 (EST)
But why promote Lee?  There are other Senior oficers that could do the job.  Why the favoritism?  Puzzling.......
But I wouldn't give the job to Saul Tigh, otherwise we'd be renaming the pegasus the "JIM BEAM" (HA HA!)--[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]

:Please read Questions and Analysis on "[[The Captain's Hand]]" where this question was already asked, and possible answers given; my best-fit theory is that like on ''Star Trek'' and in the real US Navy, anyone who commands a ship is called "captain" even if they have a rank lower than "captain", right?  Perhaps this is a continuation of this Navy terminology; Apollo is made "Commander" (their Captain equivalent) of Pegasus, therefore he is given the rank of "Commander"; why put him in charge at all? Well, Tigh never wanted his own command, and below that, there aren't many other high-ranking officers left.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 04:27, 22 February 2006 (EST)

True, but Kara Thrace is another possible "Candidate".  A natural tactitian(like myself), and brilliant leader.  A little rough around the edges, maybe more responsibility thrown upon her may mellow her.

:A) Kara is not the best of commanders, B) They've only got so many officers, and they need a Galactica-CAG, C) Apollo outranks her.  2 months ago she was a Lieutenant.  Apollo is at least 3rd or 4th ranking on Galactica. 

::What about "KAT"? as C.A.G?, It then frees up Kara to move up the command chain. 

Question: Have the colonials setup a training camp to repalce losses?--[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]

:.....The episode "[[Act of Contrition]]", the episode "[[Scar]]"....Jetstorm316, I mean this out of genuine confusion: how much of the New Series of Battlstar Galactica have you seen so far?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 04:54, 22 February 2006 (EST)

But thats for PILOTS.  What about officer training facilities, boot camps for marines, ect?  Recruiting instead of enslaving is a must considering current fleet status.  They did so in TOS, replacing officers is also crucial or the command structure will crumble from the ground up.

:And to answer your above question: (ahem)ALL OF IT TO PRESENT DATE, ALL ON VCD, DOWNLOADED BY MYSELF, TO WATCH AT MY OWN LEASURE!  I can't spend all day analising every episode, I have othe responsibilities to tend to, like a paying job.

I Can't wait until Saturday when I get the latest episode "Download", just to annoy my partner.--[[user:Jetstorm316|Jetstorm316]]

:: "[[Epiphanies]]", [[Asha Janik]]; using some civilians to do grunt work in understaffed areas like assembling the ammunition they got in boxes from Ragnar.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 06:52, 22 February 2006 (EST)

But have they recruited to re-enforce their dwindiling Military?  Asha is still civilian aswell as Peter Liard, a civilian deck chief on Pegasus, even though he was pressganged.  "Pegasus" can only do so much.--[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]

:I have to go check out my DVDs but it looked like Laird had CPO pins on his uniform. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 07:13, 22 February 2006 (EST)

:: which were most probably given as a field promotion, due to his technical expertise in aeronautics--[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]

:::What I figured happened was that Cain needed a deck chief so she assigned him to that job since he was an aeronautical engineer and gave him a rank commensurate with his position. As Cain would say, "I m a flag officer in detached service during a time of war. Regulations give me broad authority in these matters." --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 11:29, 22 February 2006 (EST)
::::Possible, due to the fact she lost 700 men, maybe her original deck chief was one of those casualties, hence Liards field promotion.--[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]
:::::Exactly my point. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 13:41, 22 February 2006 (EST)

Back to the original discussion, Point C), if you look at Talos's images Khaki OD dress, this is taken form the pilot episode as Tigh walks away from the CIC.  To help everyone out a little, this is time index 8 mins 2 seconds.  If you look at the right arm of the non-com, you will see a black armband, with 2 letters in yellow.  If I can get a better/clearer shot of this, I would wager the armband reads "MP".  Now tell me I don't know my millitary structures!  Could anyone please help varify this (Pictorial)fact?
--[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]
:The only problem is that's not khaki, thats OD. Khaki (color) is what Hadrian wears. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:19, 22 February 2006 (EST)
::It looks like any confusion is caused by me comparing the OD uniform to the Navy Service Khakis, an undress, working suitable uniform. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:22, 22 February 2006 (EST)
[[Image:ODarmband2 Mini.JPG|thumb|OD with Armband ([[Miniseries]]).]]
Talos, do you concure that the OD dress with armbard, has lettering?.--[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]
:It looks like the lettering on the OD armband says "SECURITY" or "SEC". It's clearer in the DVD and I'll see if I can get a clearer pic. That was just a picture of oppourtunity while I was looking for Blue duty pictures. There aren't that many of the OD with armband walking around, compared to ODs without like Dualla. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:08, 22 February 2006 (EST)
::The armband definatly says "SECURITY" as seen in this picture. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 13:22, 2 March 2006 (CST)

::...what does "OD" stand for?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 13:43, 2 March 2006 (CST)
:::Olive Drab. It's the "army green" color (not camo, just green). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:44, 2 March 2006 (CST)

Or "Off Duty" (as a second dress standard for all military types) See "Scar" for reference.[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]

Alright, while watching season three so far I've been getting the feeling that they made new "blues." So far, looking at pictures over at [http://galactica.emedian.net/ Dark Thoughts] I've found a couple of things that support this theory. For starters, look at the collars on some of the uniforms. With the exception of Adamas' uniform that has always had a short collar (curves almost immediately after coming off the main part of the uniform) most of the uniforms have had a taller coller (goes up a half inch-inch before curving). This season all of the "blues" seem to be the shorter collars. Secondly, unless they've just changed the lighting on the sets, the uniform material seems to be a brighter blue. The old uniforms looked dark blue/almost black sometimes but this season the uniforms are clearly blue. Third is the buttons. In the first two season you never saw more than 4 buttons (pocket not included) on the front of the "blues," this season everybody seems to have 5 buttons always showing. (Edit: Just found a pic from season two showing Tigh with 5 buttons showing.) Also if you look at the promo pictures for the third season over at [http://galactica.emedian.net/ Dark Thoughts] you'll see two different ''Pegasus'' patches on pictures of Apollo. Looking at the individual picture of Apollo (in his blue uniform) you can see a small part of the ''Pegasus'' patch. The base material is clearly a blue twill material. However, if you look at the pictures of Apollo in the Ensamble section, the base material on the ''Pegasus'' patches is the shiny sateen material we've seen the ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' patches made from since the first two seasons.  While the patch difference doesn't mean new uniforms it at least means a new run of patches.

Also, two things I haven't seen mentioned before, and not relating to new uniforms for season 3, is the differences in the bottom of the pants and at the cuffs on the shirts. For senior officers the bottom of the pants have a cut to them that results in the material coming up in two arcs to meet in the middle of the front of the leg. This also allows for you to see the strange black cover that goes over the front of the senior officers shoes. However, if you look at pictures of the junior officers (white piping on the uniform) the pants are lacking the cut in the front of the pant legs and they also do not have the covers over the front of the shoes. This can be clearly seen in ensamble pictures on the [http://galactica.emedian.net/ Dark Thoughts] website.  The second thing is the cuffs on the shirts.  In the first two seasons the only time I was ever able to see any decoration on the back of the cuffs on the blues is with Adamas' uniform.  He always has had this buckle-like devices on the back of his cuffs.  At first I thought it to be a senior officer/junior officer deal but I couldn't find this on any other uniform in pictures including Tighs'.  Now this season I've noticed that Apollos' uniform has these same buckles on his cuffs.  So apparently this is decoration for commanders uniforms only. --[[User:Slothboy|Slothboy]] 21:21, 14 October 2006 (CDT)

== Latest Uniform Quibble (Marines) ==

It would appear that TPTB's (or costume dept's) use of the "digiprint"/MARPAT camo BDU's in Home for the featured cast was a one-time occurance, or, at least, an employment ''that is not typical of Marine uniforms''. Up until the Lay Down Your Burdens episodes, we had only seen combat Marines in their black BDU's. Here they were headed back to Caprica to recover as many survivors as possible, and what BDU's do they end up using? OD/green. The vests remained black, but each Marine on the recovery team was suited in OD/green. If the digiprint-camo BDU '''''was''''' part of the Marines' uniform rotation, then it goes without saying that it should have been in this event.

'''''But it wasn't.'''''

Now, that could be from several reasons that either exist inside of, or outside of, the storyline. The reason I'm provocating is that <font color=#00f000>A)</font> the digiprint/MARPAT-camo was indeed a one-time use, spurred by a "Hey! This will look cool!" by a production source, and it wasn't intended to be, nor was it originally, a part of the "series bible", <font color=#00f000>B)</font> The production staff realized they'd be tattooed on the forums for using black (and I'm sure that it would go against the training/knowledge of any military-types on the staff) uniforms to depict a planetside operation, <font color=#00f000>C)</font> The staff couldn't afford, nor justify, purchasing more digiprint/MARPAT BDU's, and "old" camo BDU's wouldn't look "unique" enough for this storyline, and <font color=#00f000>D)</font> They used ''what they had on hand'' (OD/green BDU's) ''knowing that it's an exceptionally minor detail that shouldn't affect the story.''

If my post has a twinge of hostility in it, it's in response to certain folks' repeated (perhaps they've let up recently) projections of real-life structure, regulations, etc. into this topic. Just because a couple of Shore Patrol dudes and the feature characters wore some cool-looking digiprint camo ''does not mean'' that it is standard-issue, regulation-grade uniform for the Marines, or for anyone else. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 13:40, 15 March 2006 (CST)
:I think the Digital BDUs aren't for the Marines, they've been consistently shown wearing solid color BDUs. My thinking is that the Digital Uniforms are a Fleet-only uniform. The colors are actually similar to the new Digital work uniforms the US Navy is experimenting with. They wouldn't be the best uniform for a mission in a woodland enviroment, is ODs are more appropriate. To be honest, they shouldn't have used those uniforms on Kobol, sticks out like a sore thumb. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 15:42, 15 March 2006 (CST)

'''''Dress Grays problem'''''
After watching Res Ship pt II, I noticed that the bars around the collar of both Admiral Adama and Commander Fisk were bronze, not black/dark gray. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 07:14, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

== New Unknown Uniform ==

[[Image:Unknowndressunif ActoCon.JPG|thumb|left|Funeral Detail ([[Act of Contrition]])]]
Here's an unknown uniform I saw while watching Act of Contrition. It's the same as the Dress Greys except the color of the coat is more black and less blue, the sash is blue, and there's an insignia shaped like a eagle (that's what it looks like to me) near where the sash and belt meet. Maybe it's one of the following:
*A Marine Dress Uniform, officer or enlisted
*A specific Honor Guard uniform 

Any thoughts? --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:34, 20 March 2006 (CST)

I would say its an honour guard dress, personally --[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]

[[Image_talk:Unknowndressunif_ActoCon.JPG]] --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 11:47, 26 March 2006 (CST)

I think it's the Dress Grays, just in brighter lighting and without the epoulettes.  The differences in lighting really make the uniforms look different.  --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 08:01, 9 August 2006 (CDT)

== The Ship Patches ==

I'm going to quibble with both the description of the ship patches (because I think whoever wrote that section didn't understand how they're constructed), how many different patch variants there, and what they look like.
"Galactica's crew patch is colored gold, with "Battlestar Galactica BSG 75" written around the seal. Pegasus' crew patch is colored white, with "Battlestar Pegasus BSG 62" written around the seal. For both officers and enlisted crew, rank insignia is affixed to both sides of the collar."
No.  The basic patch for Galactica is a gold/green ground.  That's not stitching, it's a solid fabric with a high sheen.  The only stitching is the outlining and lettering.  That varies depending on what uniform the patch goes on.  We've been looking closely at this at Dewback Wing because we're trying to reproduce the patches.  The stitching appears in many cases to match the color of the shoulderpad of the uniform tunic.    So the duty blues patch actually has very, very dark blue stitching, the duty greens patch has very dark green stitching.  The flight suit patch appears to be made from the same material as the the flight suits with dark brown stitching.  The deck crews appear to wear patches that are either gold or a darker bronze with dark brown or black stitching (I can't tell from the few clear screen caps I've found, the lighting makes it hard to be certain).  Khaki BDUs/duty tans appear to have gold patches with dark brown stitching.  Marines appear to have black patches with white or grey stitching (again, lighting) on their black uniforms.    The only Pegasus patches that anyone's produced clear screen caps of are on duty blue uniforms and those are bright blue with white stitching.  I have no clear shots of what a Pegasus flight suit patch looks like at this point in time. 

You can look at my (and the other contributors' at Dewback Wing) work [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/ShipPatches.gif here] That first variation was an explanation of why a single flat color doesn't look right, no matter what shade you pick.  You can also see the heavily cropped screen caps of patches [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/ShipPatchesCollage.jpg here]. Keep in mind that some of the color variation you see is the result of high-sheen textiles and variable lighting. --[[User:Scotchfairy|Scotchfairy]] 07:13, 9 August 2006 (CDT)
:If it's wrong and you have onscreen evidence to back it up, by all means correct it, please. A simple episode reference can serve as the citation, though we have the fancy new [[Template:Cite episode|episode citation template]] if you want to specify a timestamp (though honestly nobody has really started using that much yet). Drop me a note on my talk page or pm me at Mortal Storm if you need a helping hand. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:50, 9 August 2006 (CDT)
::some of those reference photos aren't from episodes.  They're studio promo pics.  I'll have to see if I kept those particular shots sorted by episode (for snarky details I generally don't, since a single detail can generate 10-20 caps across several episodes). --[[User:Scotchfairy|Scotchfairy]] 17:54, 9 August 2006 (CDT)

::I'm no expert on stiching vs. sold sheen, etc.  Though I still thought the basic "Galactica is gold, Pegasus is silver" idea holds up based on the screencaps you have. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 08:04, 9 August 2006 (CDT)

:::Too much blue, and too much bright blue on the Pegasus patches for the background material to be silver/white.  It's pretty clearly white stitching on a blue ground.  That's why it seems glaringly bright in some shots.  The flight suit patches may indeed be white ground, but we haven't seen enough yet to tell.  It'd be nice if things followed a logic that fans could make fit with "military" practice, but TV and movie costuming is often driven by other factors, one of the foremost being "Does that look good on camera?" I have a feeling that white patch with dark blue stitching didn't stand out against the duty blue uniform enough.  But the shots I've seen from the video blog confirm that the patches are predominantly blue (and a really bright blue at that).   Given that they often film in Dark-O-Vision, I can see why they'd make that color choice. --[[User:Scotchfairy|Scotchfairy]] 17:54, 9 August 2006 (CDT)
::::I don't know a lot about uniforms materail detail, though I try.  The ''real'' question is whether we can make a convincing enough replica to sneak onto the set...--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 19:30, 9 August 2006 (CDT)

:::hah.  Okay, this is a link to someone's photo gallery.  They've graciously put up their set of screencaps from the video blog, which confirms some of the things I suspected.  ''All'' the Pegasus patches are blue with white stitching, there are no variations for different uniforms.  And the Galactica flight suit patches are made from the same material as the suits.  Jury's still out on the Pegasus ones, as I can't read the patches on the rack there and the screen cap I have has too much lighting glare to let us see the actual color of the patch ground.  [http://byyourcommand.net/photogallery/SciFi-Channels-BSG/Costume?full=1 byyourcommand.net]  Please be polite and don't hotlink to this page, as I don't own it. --[[User:Scotchfairy|Scotchfairy]] 04:48, 10 August 2006 (CDT)

== Pants ==

This article needs more discussion of pants. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 17:14, 19 September 2006 (CDT)
:Does starbuck wear a thong? Important questions indeed... unless of course you mean trousers? ;) --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 18:16, 19 September 2006 (CDT)
::Per the episode "Scar", Starbuck just appears to wear grey (excuse me, *gray*) *panties*. Apollo seems to wear gray *underpants*. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 00:22, 21 September 2006 (CDT)
:::Gray is such a boring colour for underwear, i'm dissapointed :( --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 02:57, 21 September 2006 (CDT)

== Flag Officer Piping == 

Hate to shatter everyone's established view of the piping as seen on Admiral Cain's uniform, but it is NOT gold and white- there's a red stripe, also:

[[Image:Admiralpiping1.jpg|200px]]

If you can see, there's a strip of red piping outside the Gold. :) --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:04, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
:Nice work. Document, document, document. This article has made tremendous progress. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:29, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
:But it's really tiny compared to the gold/white or to the red on the Commander and Colonel uniform. Almost invisible --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:14, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
::But it's there nonetheless. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 11:19, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
:::Good eye, Madbrood. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 11:20, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
::::Thanks :) I seem to notice little things like this a lot, not just in BSG... I swear, it'll be my undoing someday. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 11:34, 25 September 2006 (CDT)

== Engine Room Dress Shirts ==

In [[The Captain's Hand]] the engine crew is shown to be wearing a dress T-shirt with the Pegasus patch on the shoulder.  It seems to be a dark green colour.

[[Image:Pegasusdressshirt.jpg|200px]]

Anyone have a better picture or better description for the main page? --[[User:Jtal|Jtal]] 20:31, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

: Either Talos or myself could grab a better version from the DVDs. I'm going through them methodically now; right now, I'm just finishing up audio capturing Phelan's rather horribly dialogued words for the "[[Black Market]]" page, so I should hit "Captain's Hand" sometime tomorrow if all things go well. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 21:10, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
::I'll take care of it. It's hard with the lighting in the scenes that the shirts are in, frakking strobe light. It looks like they have a polo shirt collar, not a crew neck like the grey t-shirts the others wear under their uniforms. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 21:45, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
:::Nevermind, its a short-sleeved button down shirt like the OD uniforms except for the different cloth, length of sleeves, and lack of the suede shoulders like the other green uniform. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 21:56, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
[[Image:Snipeuniform CptHand.JPG|thumb|Engineering uniform ([[The Captain's Hand]]).]]

== Cottle's uniform ==

Absent from this page is a section covering Cottle's medical uniform, along with some pictures. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 10:17, 23 April 2007 (CDT)

== Article voicing ==

This article, like the articles dealing with weapons for ships and personnel in the RDM continuity, mixes so many real-world and in-universe concepts that it makes it hard to read. For  sidearms, Serenity adjusted information to create the [[Small arms]] article, but that's not the solution I recommend here. To work in the guideline of [[BW:REAL|real-world POV writing]], I'd like to see if any real-world comparisons can be moved into footnotes so we can keep the article voice concentrating on the Colonial way. I would like to make a fandom article on article components and their basis to keep TOS and RDM costume enthusiasts as well. Comments? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:12, 23 April 2007 (CDT)

: I agree. I'd like to see these things as well. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 11:14, 23 April 2007 (CDT)

: Though it's not really the ''whole'' article that's affected. Most real-world references are contained to the "additional notes" section. And specifically the third paragraph there. That shouldn't be too hard to clean up. Maybe even delete that paragraph and move the handful of other RL references to footnotes. The real word references in the "Colonial Marine Corps" section can be deleted as well. If that's alright, I can do the cleanup. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:20, 23 April 2007 (CDT)

:: Sure. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 12:44, 23 April 2007 (CDT)

Ok, major cleanup is done. I didn't create any footnotes, but all that information is already at [[Colonial Marine Corps]]. So I thought about adding a ''For real life costuming information, see'' thingy. I'll also get pics of the green enlisted uniform and the digital camo from LDYB. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:13, 23 April 2007 (CDT)

:Looks cleaner. Great work. I'm sure as soon as we create a fandom page for links to tips, adding specifics from the BSG costume designer's video blog for some authenticity and relevance to the wiki, it'll be a good start without obligating us to host. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:45, 23 April 2007 (CDT)
== Battle Dress Uniform ==

There seem to be two collar variations of the BDU's in Home pt. II, the normal collar like in any dress shirt worn by Apollo, and the Mandarin collar uniform worn by Adama. The Mandarin is the stand up collar that in the new generation uniforms is for comfort under body armor. You can see the difference in the screenshots for home on the reference link in the main article. The big two pics are the one of Apollo with the shouldered rifle and any of the Adama pics were he has the pepperbox aimed at Boomer's head.

:I agree. I'll make the change. Also, I may have been wrong about the flight suits. They could be plastic or vinyl instead of leather, opinions? Use this image as a reference. http://galactica.emedian.net/episode/1.06/imagepages/image2.html

I don't know, it looks like leather. I'll brainstorm on this. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:21, 13 September 2005 (EDT)

:The sleeves look like Vinyl. The vest looks like an unpolished leather. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:15, 12 September 2005 (EDT)

:: To me, the suit bit (sleeve, pegs, under-vest, etc.) looks like some kind of ''rubber'' material to me. I've thought this for a while now. I imagine that it's some kind of Space-Age Technology that is super-insulative and air-tight that would help in the case of cabin depressurization while in a Viper. This is, after all, the flight suit. I agree that the vest thingie looks leather. --[[User:Day|Day]] 18:34, 12 September 2005 (EDT)

:::I agree with Day in that the flighsuit is probably a futuristic Space-Age material. I wonder what the actual costumes are made of (besides the vest, it is most likely unpolished leather). --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:21, 13 September 2005 (EDT)


If you are talking about the "Digital Urban Cammo" "BDU', which is actually known as a MARPAT...its not a collar variation, its the same collar. it can be worn like a madarin collar, or open like a standard butterfly collar.
My Question about the BDU's is what is the designation for the Khaki/Tan variant of the BDU's seen in the MiniSeries and the 1st Season?-- [[User:Stratohead|Stratohead]]
:There is no Urban MARPAT, only the Forrest and Desert versions since the Urban was never accepted. The BDUs they wear in Home look to be a commercial digital pattern based off the MARPAT like the ones you can get at UsCav. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 13:04, 7 February 2006 (EST)
::Yep. While MARPAT has become slang for digital camo, technically only the U.S. Marines can use [[Wikipedia:MARPAT|MARPAT]]. The Army countered with the [[Wikipedia:Army Combat Uniform|ACU]], which lacks the color black. The wikipedia ACU article talks about the whole "Mandarin" up/down style (like Strato said). Does anybody have captures of the older (1st season) camo pattern that Strato is talking about? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:31, 7 February 2006 (EST)
:
::I wasn't refering to a Camo Pattern when I refrenced the Khaki/Tan...but a BDU uniform that is of the same construction as the Olive Drab ones...only Khaki/Tan.
This is seen in the background a few times in the Miniseries (once on a Deck Hand working at a bench in the hanger deck) but can be seen most clearly in the Episode "Litmus" on Sgt. Hadrian ( http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Hadrian). Just curious if thats supposed to be a Marine BDU variant, or what it is. In the Miniseries the Marines wore OD plus an armband that simply stated "Security"...so I really don't know what the color difference is supposed to mean.( in my last post above I was refering to Digital Cammo as "MARPAT" in the same way we refer to Tissue Paper as "Kleenex" regardless of the brand...sorry if that was confusing)-- [[User:Stratohead|Stratohead]]

:::Um, as I have already said in the main article, "Marine NCO's (Non-Commissioned Officers) wear a khaki uniform"-->That's a Marine Non-Com uniform.  Normal Marines don't wear it.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:32, 7 February 2006 (EST)
::::It is just a khaki variant of the green service uniform that both the Non-coms and Officers wear. It may be missing the suede shoulders though, I need to go check out Litmus. Isn't it ironic that todays quote is from Litmus? --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:20, 7 February 2006 (EST)

== Pictures ==

This article (as noted on the [[Battlestar Wiki:Standards and Conventions|Standards and Conventions]] page) is gonna need a lot of pictures. Do you guys think that we should create a 3- or 4-equals heading for each kind of uniform to better align tha pictures with the accompanying text? This would also help in finding the specific type of uniform a reader is loking for if they were looking for that, rather than just looking for all/any uniform information. --[[User:Day|Day]] 20:48, 12 September 2005 (EDT)
== Jacket ==

I removed the line "[[Lee Adama|Apollo]]'s flight suit identifies that he is actually qualified to pilot both." A jacket, in military aviation, is a dossier that contains all the pilots qualifications, commendations, etc. Stinger was not referring to Apollo's flight suit but his record, which he would have recieved when Apollo was transferred under his command. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 22:51, 22 January 2006 (EST)

: Ahhh. Ha-ha! That makes much sense, then. I guess I can take off "scrutinize Lee's uniform for mention of a Raptor" of my list of things to do. Interesting. --[[User:Day|Day]] 08:43, 23 January 2006 (EST)

== Counterpoints ==

Okay....I do not want this to get "ugly", however there are a *LOT* of problems with Jetstorm316's recent posting here in Talk; For starters, at first glance it doesn't look like he even bothered to read the write up '''already in the article''', but instead posted up his own observations.  I'm not trying to insult, cast blame, whatever.  I wash my hands of this.  But I need to make the following counterpoints:

"A) ''Parade Dress - Normal Bridge uniform with a "leather like" sash with medals earned. ''"

:No.  As you can see in the write up I did weeks ago for "Uniform" on the front page, a dress uniform is not "a bridge uniform" with some alterations:  It is gray, lacks a pocket or shoulder patches, as well as the sash.  Senior officers' uniforms also feature a dark gray bar around the neck, and epaulettes.  No, it is not called "Parade Dress" (well, with capitals like an official name like that), they call them "Dress Grays", i.e. dress uniform.  A point I forgot to make was that the Dress Uniform is actuall an overcoat of sorts; the Duty Uniform (below) just tucks into the belt.

"B)'' Bridge Officer - as above but without sash, with or without pilot wings, pending Viper Pilot Training. ''"

:A key point you didn't notice is that this is not a "Bridge Officer" uniform; it is a uniform for all Colonial Fleet officers:  Apollo, Starbuck, and Boomer have been seen wearing them, as noted in that list there which denotes the differences in this uniform for different ranks.  LSO Kelly also wears one.  And as said above, it's really not like the dress uniform.  As for the differences in those little Wing badges they have, I would greatly appreciate if someone could find the little differences between them; however it is definately not "pending Viper Pilot Training", as I do believe that even Raptor pilots or Gaeta have them.

"''C) Khaki - a universal standard, mainly adopted by colonial non-coms, a black armband if Military Police with MP shown. ''"

:No, this is also blatantly wrong. This is not a uniform for "Colonial Non-Coms".  Chief Tyrol is the highest-ranking Colonial Fleet Non-Com on the ship, yet as you can see clearly in this Galacticastation pic: http://www.galacticastation.com/Galactica%20Station/Screencaps/s1/103/bscap028.htm he does not wear a khaki uniform.  He wears the green duty uniform, which other Colonial Fleet personel, such as Cally: http://www.galacticastation.com/Galactica%20Station/Screencaps/s1/103/bscap014.htm who is an enlisted crewman, also wears.  So you see, '''this is not a "universal standard, mainly non-com uniform"'''.  No, a black armband is not worn by just "the military police"; all people wearing this that we have seen had the black armband.  Either way, we've pretty much confirmed that it is the Colonial Marine Corps Non-Com uniform, but is not used by the Colonial Fleet.  (Still, we have not seen it featured much, and the black armband stuff needs more research/attention in future episodes.

"''D) Deck Crew - an orange jumpsuit with a black "hold-all" waist coat. ''"

:Correct; this is in the article, yeah no problem there; there are actually orange and yellow ones (notably Jammer), as has been stated above; on real world ships, color denotes task, but as I stated in the article, "orange" isn't a color used by the US Navy's color-coding system. 

"''E) Desert Combats - whats the deal with this? any ideas? ''"
:....did you just count the Khaki uniform twice in your list?  No, we have never seen a "desert combat" uniform in any episode.

I am sorry, and I have tried to keep this as close to the facts as possible, however this really needed correction. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 04:51, 22 February 2006 (EST)

:Well, we do agree on something after all, Point D).

As I have stated on Point E), I conceeded it wasn't "Desert" combats, but "Urban" style.  Talos quite rightly pointed that mistake out, and I have made sufficiant note of this fact, to correct at a later date in my own files.  Once again, point conceeded, no problems here.

Point C) is a tricky one, but I have not seen an episode other than "Litmus"where it was used.  Yes, I AGREE more research is needed on this point, maybe pool resourses to define is proper use (I'm offering an "Olive Branch" here, not many get handed out from me), but once again, no problems.

A and B are too close together to seperate, but both uniforms do have similarities with each other.

I must admit, you do have some good points, but some do need redefining.--[[user:jetstorm316|Jetstorm316]]

I uploaded some pics as examples.

A)[[Image:Greys Mini.JPG|thumb|A) Dress Greys ([[Miniseries]])]]
<br>
B and D) [[Image:Bluesjumpsuit Mini.JPG|thumb|B and D)Blue duty uniform and jumpsuit ([[Miniseries]])]]
<br>
C) There are some people wearing the khaki without the armband and I'll get a better pic of both the OD and khaki when I get home from classes in about 4 hours. Here's a bad pic of the OD one with a security armband.
[[Image:ODarmband Mini.JPG|thumb|C) OD Uniform with security armband ([[Miniseries]])]]
<br>
E) [[Image:Urban FotP.JPG|thumb|E) Urban camoflage uniform ([[Flight of the Phoenix]])]]
--[[User:Talos|Talos]] 07:01, 22 February 2006 (EST)

Good examples, Talos.  Well deserving of recognition.  Why Don't you add them into the document as additional 
supplement.--[[user:Jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]
:I was planning too. I just wanted to show them here first. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 12:54, 22 February 2006 (EST)

== New Uniform Pics ==

Sweet. Thanks, Talos! --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:43, 22 February 2006 (EST)
:My pleasure. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 12:55, 22 February 2006 (EST)
:: i've been cutting off the concrete suits. maybe they can be introduced to the article that way:
:::*Commander - red line on outer edge, gold line on inner edge - [[:Image:Commander_uni.jpg|Example]]
::here are the pics: [[Image:Colonel_uni.jpg|70px]][[Image:Admiral_uni.jpg|70px]][[Image:JuniorOff_uni.jpg|70px]][[Image:Commander_uni.jpg|70px]]

:::well, i think nobody cares. If someone does, just recover. --dancing_salad 18:54, 23 February 2006 (EST)
::::Thanks for adding the pics to the uniform page. Good job on linking through text and not thumbnails, I keeps the page cleaner and less cluttered. Keep up the good work! --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 21:59, 23 February 2006 (EST)