Editing Talk:The Woman King/Archive 1

==Programming Note==
As many in the United States know, the [http://www.superbowl.com/ Super Bowl] American Football championship game is February 4. For most in our country, that game is a holiday-like event with as much national pride and rivalries as the international World Cup championship games. Since any TV programming that plays alongside the Super Bowl won't get many viewers, it appears that the SciFi Channel chose to pre-empt ''Battlestar'' to the following week. Just to let you know before you search for a torrent of the next episode.

I, for one, will certainly be watching, as I'm a resident of Indinaapolis, home of the Colts and one of the teams in the game. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:48, 30 January 2007 (CST)

: Da Bears will win. End of line. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 07:16, 31 January 2007 (CST)
::Get the to see the Super bowl over the pond too :D --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 07:45, 31 January 2007 (CST)
:: DAAAAAAAAAAA BEARS. I'll miss my weekly Galactica fix, however :( --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 10:53, 2 February 2007 (CST)
:::Yeah, RIGHT. How'd that game work out for ya, BB? :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:30, 6 February 2007 (CST)
::::I had no particular feelings either way, except that my dad did a couple of Saturday Night Live skits about the Bears and my grandpa's a Bears fan. I heartily congratulate Indianapolis on their win :D --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 13:12, 6 February 2007 (CST)

== Wild and Crazy speculation!!!!!!!!  ==
OK, OK, OK, OK!  I know somebody is going to blow my last addition out of the water about the GateWorld crap but I just create a link to a page that has revealed some now confirmed data even though there is other unconfirmed data in the article.  I wanted to create the opportunity for the reader to make an assessment for him/herself.  I know, I know, I know the policies on this stuff, but I'm testing the waters....    --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 15:04, 23 September 2006 (AST)

== Title ==

"Woman King" is the title of a song and E.P. album by Iron & Wine. Maybe someone on the writing staff is a fan? --[[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 06:37, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
: Sounds to me like a play on The Pirate King. All these silly Hollywood types love Gilbert and Sullivan. I have no idea what the relevance would be, though. --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 00:58, 12 February 2007 (CST)

== Concurrent with "Taking a Break?" ==

Is there any information or thought as to whether this episode takes place at the same time as the previous episode, "[[Taking a Break from All Your Worries]]?" It would make some sense, as this episode is rumored to involve Hera under the care of Dr. Robert, and Athena was in a rush to get a sick Hera to a doctor at the end of "[[Rapture]]." It would also explain where Helo and Sharon are during "Taking a Break," since they weren't featured there at all, with the seemingly urgent Hera storyline oddly dropped. 

Of course, the idea of "[[Black Market]]" and "[[Scar]]" being concurrent came up as the second season aired, but that was disproved. This might just be a random idea. I guess we'll find out for sure in two weeks. --[[User:Linaf|Linaf]] 20:12, 29 January 2007 (CST)
:It might also explain why [[Robert|Doctor Robert]] is treating Hera instead of Cottle as he is busy with the interrogation drugs on Baltar. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 11:31, 2 February 2007 (CST)
::Keep in mind though, that Cottle is not on Sharon's "A" list right about now either. Probably, since he played quite a big roll in faking Hera's death and hiding the baby away...Maybe Helo and Sharon wanted to seek...a second opinion. Unfortunatly, if that's the case looks like he won't be a good choice!--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 09:54, 6 February 2007 (CST)
:::Another issue with my theory is the Zarek scene we've seen in the promos. If it happens early in the episode, the two eps can't be concurrent because the decision to have the trial came at the end of "Taking a Break." However, if it's late in the ep, the two eps might happen at the same time. Only about 30 minutes until we find out. [[User:Linaf|Linaf]] 20:38, 11 February 2007 (CST)

== My Predictions ==

I've looked deep into my crystal ball this week, ''Galactica'' fans, and what I've seen will blow your minds and require a change of pants. I'll give you all a moment or two to go grab a spare pair of trousers. Got 'em? Okay, here we go:
*Helo beats the sweet bejeezus out of a frail old man who's just trying to help people through euthanasia.
*Athena, being a murderous Cylon deep inside, gets turned on by the violence. She and Helo conceive their second child.
*The trial of Gaius Baltar begins with thunderous applause.
*Tom Zarek!
*We see the first shots of the Cylon homeworld and learn how the Cylons are dealing with the loss of the Number Three model. Some models aren't taking it so well.
*We also learn why the Cylon fleets are spread so thin: Attacks from a mysterious external enemy have drawn the majority of the Cylons' attention for the last year and a half.
*Starbuck and Hot Dog take the Heavy Raider back to the Colonies to gather supplies. The Heavy Raider is able to make the trip in three jumps each way. When there, they're attacked by Cylon models they've never seen before and are brought to meet their leader: Galvatron!
*Dude. ''Tom'' motherfrakking ''ZAREK''.
*More guest appearances by the SuicideGirls. Quinne Suicide even has a line.
*Tigh whines about stuff and gets promoted. Gaeta whines about stuff and gets thrown in the brig. Apollo whines about stuff and gets promoted ''and'' thrown in the brig.
*Special guest appearances by Dr. Jack Kevorkian and Harlan Ellison.
*Did I mention Tom Zarek?
Should be a hum-dinger of a night. As always, you can place your bets with Bruzer or on my User Talk page. I'll see you all on Monday. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 13:05, 7 February 2007 (CST)
:Yup, bets can be placed on my talk page. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 13:48, 7 February 2007 (CST)
::Suicide girls? They're unboxing the [[Number Three|Threes]] already? -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 19:20, 7 February 2007 (CST)
:::LIke the predictions, especially on Tigh, Gaeta and Apollo. But what about Dee, Cottle, Caprica and Anders?--[[User: CoreyDanian|CoreyDanian]] 19.23, 8 February 2007
::::I hate to step on Slander's territory, but here's what I say - 
::::*Caprica seduces Roslin and gets her to release Baltar because Caprica's become addicted to 3-ways.
::::*Dee and Cottle are having a secret love affair that Cottle is hiding from his other partner, Anders. 
:::::--[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 21:31, 7 February 2007 (CST)
::::::Cottle/Anders OTP. Looks like we got our crystal balls from the same wish-granting Gypsy, BB, because mine told me the exact same things. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 11:45, 8 February 2007 (CST)
:::::::OTP? And also, you got your crystal ball from [[Dodona Selloi]] too? Cool! --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 11:50, 8 February 2007 (CST)
::::::::As defined by Wikipedia, "One True Pairing -- usually used to denote a fanatical devotion to one pairing in a fandom, excluding all others; a fandom abbreviation referring to one's favorite fictional couple." It's a term from the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shipping_(fandom) shipping] community, which I use here for parodic effect, as I loathe fanfiction and everything having to do with it. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 12:41, 8 February 2007 (CST)
:::::::::Ah, so BSG has an official OTP and unofficial. Official, of course, being Six and Three. Unofficial, Anders and Cottle. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 20:21, 8 February 2007 (CST)
:::::::::: OTPs don't have to be same-sex. Someone could designate Starbuck/Anders as their OTP. There's also no such thing as an official OTP, since it's purely a fandom thing. Rule 34, however, states that there ''has'' to be Cottle/Anders slashfic out there. I don't want to see it, but it's out there. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 08:43, 9 February 2007 (CST)
:::::::::::I know the OTPs don't have to be same-sex, but I like thinking about a Three/Six OTP :D --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 10:00, 9 February 2007 (CST)
:::::::::::: I think that makes a whole wiki full of us. Mmm... (We need more women here, to keep us in line.) --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 14:07, 13 February 2007 (CST)

== podcast already up ==
The podcast is already up. Isn't that silly?
http://media.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/mp3/314/bsg_ep314_FULL.mp3 [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 13:40, 8 February 2007 (CST)

== What episode is that from? ==
In the "Previously on Battlestar Galactica" segment, Helo was transferred to take care of the civvies who come on Galactica. What episode is that from? [[User:Moo|Moo]] 21:46, 11 February 2007 (CST)
:Just another "Previously Retcon." They do those from time to time, like in "Resurrection Ship, Part 1," where they "Previously-ed" a scene cut from "Pegasus." It's a way of setting up the story quick and easy, without the clunkery of exposition in the teaser. This one was pretty obvious, as the sound quality of Chief saying it was very tinny.

That it's a recap retcon is obvious. I think Moo is simply asking what episode the footage was cut from. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 00:34, 12 February 2007 (CST)
:I'd assume EoJ or Passage. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 06:02, 12 February 2007 (CST)

I propose that we refer to these incidents as "prevcons." --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 14:15, 12 February 2007 (CST)

== Ep. Summary word choice - racism/prejudice ==

Can I propose to use the words prejudice and discrimination to describe the persecution of the Sagittarons in the episode summary?  Using the word "racism" just doesn't seem accurate.  I just don't think of topics like religious belief or planet-of-origin as race-related.  Zarek, Dualla, and Mrs. King all seem to be of varying ethnic backgrounds, but are still all Sagittarons.  I hesitate to edit anything on this wiki, and I just want to see if people think this word choice is worth considering.  I may just be anal.
[[User:Murph|Murph]] 10:46, 12 February 2007 (CST)
:Right. It might be an allegory for racism, but within the show it's definitely not racism. Your hesitation isn't necessary btw. If you feel that something needs to be changed, go ahead and do it. It's not like this is a huge thing that will change an entire article --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:54, 12 February 2007 (CST)
::I am a little hesitant to make changes because I'm a new user and, until now, I've only corrected typos.  Someone else did more work than me when they wrote up that summary, so I didn't want to start editing too freely.  Just a little cautious on my side, I suppose.  Take my love, take my land...saw Objects in Space on the old DVR (in HD) this week.  Possibly my favorite episode of Firefly.  But that's a discussion for another board.  --[[User:Murph|Murph]] 11:44, 12 February 2007 (CST)
:::If you want to make a change this small, and you think it's the right thing to do, just do it. We keep a history of all edits, so if we decided you have totally screwed up a page, we can always undo your changes. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 13:48, 12 February 2007 (CST)
:"Racist" is the right word. Helo uses it himself: "This guy's dirty. I think he's a liar, and I think he's killing people because he's a racist son of a bitch." --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 14:25, 12 February 2007 (CST)
::A character said it; that doesn't make it the right choice of words. Like real people, the characters on the show sometimes say one word when their intent was to say another. More of that sweet, sweet realism we love from ''Galactica''. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 14:47, 12 February 2007 (CST)
::For all we know, Sagittarons might be a "race" of humans. Racial boundaries on ''Galactica'' aren't as clear cut as perhaps they should be... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 14:54, 12 February 2007 (CST)
:::I completely agree with Joe. If coming from a different county/continent is how we define a "race" then I would certainly think coming from a different planet/colony is. We're all humans, no matter what your ethnic origin or skin color is. Same goes on Galactica. They're all humans, but there are 13 different colonies...and given the distinction that's been shown on the show before, it's analogous to different countries.--[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 16:05, 12 February 2007 (CST)
::::Based on the work we've done at [[Race and Ethnicity in the Twelve Colonies]], it's quite obvious that nobody in the fictional ''Galactica'' universe is remotely interested in skin color as a means of classifying groups of people. The means by which the Colonials place themselves into representative groups is overwhelmingly based on colony of origin. This has been pointed out many times throughout the series: Sagittarons (Bastille Day, The Woman King) and Gemenons (The Captain's Hand) are obvious; Adama dismisses the Taurons as "always acting up" (Hero), and Caprica seems to be in a continual position of prestige. The Quorum of Twelve, the highest legislative body in the colonial government, is also organized based on tribal affiliation. With all this in mind - the irrelevance of skin color and the overriding importance of colony of origin - it makes perfect sense that issues of race should be transferred over to issues of nationality, and the corresponding vocabulary with them. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 16:25, 12 February 2007 (CST)
:::::Unfortunately the cultural and national equivalents of racism don't have concise two-syllable English terms. I've heard bias against various cultural, religious and linguistic groups referred to as "racism" on many occasions. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 18:31, 12 February 2007 (CST)

My say is that I prefer the use of "racism" as opposed to "prejudice" because it seems to keep in line of the broader attitudes that are shown throughout the series.  The dictionary definitions of racism and prejudice are as follows:

*Racism - a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others

*Prejudice - unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, esp. of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group

From a small scale, yes Dr. Robert was acting on his prejudice opinions towards the Sagittarons, but those opinions are coming from a racist POV.  We've seen hints of this POV from others during the series, esp. with background info on how the 11 other colonies treated Saggittaron as their scapegoat, plundering the planet's resources for their own desires.

The reality is, esp. those of us who grew up in a USA culture, racism is always associated with skin color.  Once you throw in the idea that racism covers other things such as religion, then everyone gets all uncomfortable because it seems less tangible.  What we actually are seeing in the show is not so much of racism, but specifically, tribism, where one particular tribe is singled out by the others as being inferior.

So in my opinion, Robert is a racist(or tribist).  His opinions and views on them because of New Caprica definitely are apart of him, but his actions demonstrate that he treated all the Sagittarons as an inferior tribe, even the ones who begged for his help and broke the norm.  Why would he remain prejudice towards Mrs. King and Willie if he was just prejudice and not also racist?  --[[User:LifeStar|LifeStar]] 09:46, 13 February 2007 (CST)
:The use of the term "racism" is most appropriate, with LifeStar's corrollary. I'm more for the use of episode dialogue to define terms, but, as with the [[Talk:Humanoid Cylon|Cylon agent/humanoid Cylon]] decision, what the wiki does to define matters may not necessarily be consistent with dialogue. For the purposes of being an encyclopedia, this shouldn't be, but I know that sometimes consensus overrides this principle. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:14, 13 February 2007 (CST)
::It is racism, as Helo said, because to a Colonial "race" refers to which of the twelve tribes someone is from, not to skin color. "Black" and "white" people aren't different races in biological fact, either. "Race" is a concept with no value other than what culture defines it to mean. A Caprican and a Sagittaron think of themselves as different ethnicities. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:05, 14 February 2007 (CST)

== Camp Oil Slick = Dogsville? ==

Is Dogsville a part of Camp Oil Slick, or has Camp Oil Slick been renamed "Dogsville", or is it a nickname? Thoughts? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 15:31, 12 February 2007 (CST)
:Camp Oil Slick probably ceased to exist once the New Caprican refugees were relocated to other ships. Dogsville is in the same location, but seems to be comprised of people who got shuffled to ''Galactica'' after the loss of several ships during [[The Passage]]. Remember, we see the starboard hangar bay empty during that episode. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 22:32, 12 February 2007 (CST)
::I haven't seen "The Passage", but that does seem to make the most sense. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 22:56, 12 February 2007 (CST)
:::It's easily one of the best episodes of the season, in my opinion. I like that, though the fleet's population has dropped by several thousand, they're having to deal with overcrowding issues. I'm not sure exactly how many ships were left behind on New Caprica or lost afterwards, but it seems like the loss of even one ship is a huge blow to the fleet's people-carrying capacity. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 09:36, 13 February 2007 (CST)

== Roslin and the Internal Baltar ==

I was happy to see Roslin notice the dialogue Caprica Six was having with her internal Baltar. It makes sense in Caprice Six's case (since she's a machine and all) that Roslin wouldn't immediately chalk it up to idiosyncracy as she's apparently done with Baltar to this point. Maybe she'll finally see Baltar's jabbering for what it is too.
: Update! Podcast confirms it might have been in a script and isn't intersting enough to pursue. So, um, nevermind.--[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 00:50, 13 February 2007 (CST)

== Cylon sighting? ==

I can't be sure about this, but does anyone think that one of the coughing Saggitarians looks a lot like the Priest Cylon? (Father whatshisname)
You can see him on screen from about 5min 56 seconds through to 5 min 59 seconds. Could anyone with a high-def copy and some eagle eyes take a look and offer an opinion?
:It certainly looked like him, but the Colonials know about Cavil now so I expect they would have picked him up as the refugees boarded. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 06:04, 13 February 2007 (CST)
:Thought it looked like Cavil too but decided it wasn't since they didn't cut back to him.--[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:08, 15 February 2007 (CST)

== Information from the podast ==
I'm loving the "Information from the podast" subsection of the notes. Is it something that deserves to be broken out into a subheader, or put under the "Official Statements" (which usually goes empty)? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:19, 13 February 2007 (CST)
:I thought about that earlier. Official statements is a possibility. 
:Though we shouldn't add all tiny details gleaned from it. Just the really important/big things. For now it's alright, but like some of the Questions it might become too much at some point. We'll see. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:44, 13 February 2007 (CST)
::Agree on moving to Official Statements. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 14:33, 14 February 2007 (CST)
:::Agreed. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 22:12, 14 February 2007 (CST)

== Zarek & the Saggitarians  ==

I noted this under questions, but Zarek didn't seem to play any role in this episode except freaking out about Baltar and the Trial.  I'm surprised he didn't show up to harass Helo, Adama, and Roberts.
:I was also disappointed, but realistically, the incident only concerned a small number of people as was dealt with promptly. Roslin and Zarek were probably focused on other issues. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 14:29, 14 February 2007 (CST)
::Plus, the larger issue at hand for Adama and Tigh was the security of Baltar and Caprica-Six.  I doubt that they would have reported to Roslin this "minor" issue with a virus going around that was curable.  Remember how Adama dressed down Helo and asked him if he could do his job with managing the situation in Dogsville?  Adama clearly showed that he didn't think of the problems with the disease and the people was something beyond Helo's position.--[[User:LifeStar|LifeStar]] 08:41, 16 February 2007 (CST)