Editing Talk:The Twelve Colonies of Kobol/Archive2

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== Notes on Culture ==

All right, has anyone noticed that in the Colonies, virtually everything that would be a rectangle here on Earth (pictureframe, sheet of paper, etc.) is a ''hexagon''?  To cite some examples, in the [[Miniseries]] Roslin is handed a slip of paper describing the Cylon attack on a networked Battlestar.  That slip is a hexagon.  Adama's picture frame of him, Zak and Lee is also a hexagon.  Even the computers are hexagons.  Now, a hexagon has 6 sides (half of 12, which is seemingly a symbolic number in the series), and is a practical shape for use (12-gons would be stupid for paper) so does anyone think that the hexagon is some kind of symbolic shape for the Colonials?

Also, in the [[Delphi Museum of the Colonies]], Starbuck is walking past display cases full of ancient pottery.  Culture is transmitted in the form of art and artifacts, so while this may be trivial I feel like it is worth noting.

In addition to this, notice how Elosha's priestess garment is pretty eccentric, while Brother Cavil's uniform is a plain black cassock with some purple decorations.  A difference of garb choice for priestesses and priests, perhaps?

Furthermore, in the [[Miniseries]], notice those Caprican mothers carting their babies around the city in those oversized plastic baby carriages that look like they provide too much protection for the tots.  Perhaps a link to the Scripture statement saying that life is precious and should be protected?  I can't think of any other way for the carriage manufacturer to be willing to put extra money into obtaining more plastic resources for the increased carriage size and safety.  No wait, lawsuits... But that still wouldn't explain the supersized babymobiles and extra costs and materials needed for manufacturing.

Cereals!  In [[Sacrifice]] (I think, I'm not sure), Roslin tells an aggressive Billy Keikaya, "Looks like someone ate their Wheaties today."  Okay, so...General Mills was actually a ''Colonial'' corporation and they imported it to Earth while we weren't looking.  This might just imply that the Colonials also ate Cascadian Farm, Frescarini, Lucky Charms, Chex Mix, Cheerios, Hamburger Helper...the list goes on.  Either that or I'm just making a big deal over some trivial prodcut placement.

Finally, in TOS, most of the buildings in Caprica (with exception of Long Beach City Hall where the episode was filmed), were pyramids.  In the RDM series, there aren't as many pyramids, but there are a couple in Caprica City (let me get the image).  Since there is circumstantial evidence that life began on Earth, does anyone think these pyramids could be a link with the Egyptians, who already had a thriving civilization and the Giza pyramids built by the time Greece (and perhaps the Kobol-sect) became an ancient powerhouse?
  
Taking all of this into consideration, should I initiate a "Culture" section for the Twelve Colonies (RDM)? --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 14:36, 3 July 2006 (CDT)
:According the the episode transcript...
:'''[[Laura Roslin]]''': Someone took their vitamins this morning.<br />
:'''[[Billy Keikeya]]''': Yeah, I don't know what got into me.<br />
:--''[[Sacrifice]]''
:There's an "[[Arts and Literature of the Twelve Colonies|arts and lit article]]" under construction for the 12 Colonies seriesthat might be a home for some of the architecture, pottery, etc. notes. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:08, 3 July 2006 (CDT)

::Thanks, Steelviper.  I'll look into that. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 15:18, 3 July 2006 (CDT)

[[Image:Mini-Caprica City.jpg]]
Here's the image.  Look to the FAR right hand side and note the two pyramid office buildings, one with steep lateral faces and the other looking kind of like a glass reproduction of the Giza pyramids. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 14:41, 3 July 2006 (CDT)

Arts and Lit is where we're working on that.  Note, that it's really just an in-joke from the Miniseries:  they had to "cut corners" on the production due to budget restraints, so it started out as a joke that they were "cutting corners" on everything.  The problem was, as this series progressed this became a logistical nightmare, as literally hours of work had to be spent into doing this, i.e. stacks of books in Cain's quarters.  As for the image....I'm sorry but it's too vague to actually make out if it's anything.  --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 15:24, 3 July 2006 (CDT)


Huh, I just noticed that the pyramid to the far right looks a lot like Ra's pyramid ship from Stargate, especially the way the paneling is set up. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 10:28, 18 January 2007 (CST)

== Links ==

Folks, I've noticed there's some ambiguity going on with the Wiki reference links, and I think we should probably straighten them out.  In short, do we want to link to the astrological sign, or the constellations?  I note this because I just cleaned up a few of the links before realizing this should be discussed, as (for example), someone had [[Wikipedia:Capricorn|Capricorn]] point to the WP page there, which is a disambig page, instead of [[Wikipedia:Capricorn (astrology)|Capricorn (astrology)]] or [[Wikipedia:Capricornus|Capricorn'''us''']] (the constellation; note the spelling, as there's at least one more constellation that swings this way - [[Wikipedia:Scorpius|Scorpius]]).  Just a thought or two to muddy the waters further.  ^_^--<font color="#4b0082">'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]'''</font> <font color="#2f4f4f">'''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'''''</font> 22:00, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
:I'd prefer to link to the constellations. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 02:08, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
:: Done and done, then.--<font color="#4b0082">[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]</font> <font color="#2f4f4f">''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''</font> 19:44, 9 October 2006 (CDT)


== Libra? ==

I thought Libron was the name of the colony that corresponds with Libra. I think you can make it out  if you freeze framed it in the quorom of twelve in Colonial Day. Or am I thinking of Leon? It's been a while since I checked the episode. --[[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 04 February 2007.
:It isn't visible, sadly. I've been over nearly every frame of that episode. You are probably thinking of Leonis. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 16:31, 12 February 2007 (CST)

== Aerelon, stop changing my contribution please ==

"Farming" when "agricultural" preceeds it, is just redundant. "Accent" is misleading, An accent describes the way people pronounce words of a language that is different from their mother tongue.  Dialect describes a regional way of pronouncing wordsin their mother tongue. Since this is only English throughout the Colonies (so far at least), it's quite reasonable to assume that it is in fact a dialect of the 12 Colonies rather than an accent. Additionally, the dialect he spoke as that of a Yorkshire one, a dialect within England. English eing the mother tongue, need I say any more?

Yes "Food Basket" was the term spoken but, in order to maintain utmost clarity, "Bread Basket" ought to be used since that is the correct term to use. eg; "Rhodesia was the "bread basket" of Africa pre-Zimbabwe". Read the wikipedia entry also; [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breadbasket bread basket]

--[[User:Sixu|Sixu]] 14:07, 27 February 2007 (CST)[Sixu]
:Your points on "farming" vs. "agricultural" and "accent" vs. "dialect" are correct. On the "food" vs. "bread" basket issue, however, I think it's best to stick with what the episode says, especially when viewed in context:
::It was '''considered to be''' the the "food basket" of the Twelve Colonies. (emphasis added)
:If we're saying what people consider Aerelon to be, surely it's better to quote them directly? If you still don't agree, we can always call a vote on the matter... --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 14:16, 27 February 2007 (CST)
:I somewhat agree that bread basket is the more common expression. The problem could be solved by just leaving away the quotation marks. Then it's paraphrasing. There is no need to really quote it. But it's also not a big issue; just a trivial word. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:18, 27 February 2007 (CST)

== Class in the Twelve Colonies ==

There has been some serious issues dealing with class over the course of the show.  I wanted to add an article about class in the 12 colonies.  I wanted to get people's opinions as to whether I should add the article as part of the race and ethnicity article, as that is generally how it works in our culture, although obviously not in BSG or should I create a seperate section in the Twelve Colonies group of articles specifically relating to class?  The reason I come here is that what we would term ethnicity, cultural values/traditions, does not seem to be specifically related to race, minor biological differences, in BSG.  There have been a plethora of references to character's ethnicities i.e. the cultures from the specfic colonies.  These reasons point towards including Class in Race and Ethnicity, but there is such a large collection of references to Class that my preliminary brainstorm makes me believe there is enough information to create a seperate article.  Thanks for any and all feedback on the issue.--Zareck Rocks 23:35, 12 March 2007 (CDT)

== AERILON spelling CONFIRMED! ==

*In Kara Thrace's records as seen in [[The Son also Rises]], [[Image:Kara_Thrace_Record_1.jpg|200px]] 
Spelling noted under Unit of Organizing of Summary Court-Martial "Aerilon DVT" and again in Organization of Convening Authority "Aerilon Cmbt 5th Division. Please make the proper correction to the spelling. --[[User:Os|Os]] 06:47, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
: There's been some issue with the spelling, since official sources have used both. If you read the pertinent section of this very talk page, <s>Ron Moore used "Aerelon" in one of his blog postings</s> there have been official instances of the use of the word "Aerelon". However, the official guide on page 86 does indicate that it is spelled "Aerilon". -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 08:17, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
: I noticed that too, but as said I wouldn't consider it ''the'' definite spelling just because of one occurrence. This is just the prop department doing their thing. The writers might use another spelling in their scripts. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:14, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
::And let us not forget the whole [[Racetrack|"Margaret Edmonson"]] misspelling in "[[Final Cut]]". That mispelling was corrected as his first post by our esteemed [[Bradley Thompson]]. Consistency is a bear sometimes. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:32, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

*From the Second Season, [[Home, Part I|Home, part 1]],Adama reads the file of a CAG candidate, who enter active duty at "Tulu, Aerilon" (which is repeated twice), then near the broken shells of walnuts, are the words "Aerilon Homebase" 
[[Image:Aerilon_proof2.jpg|200px]] This is another occurrence from a different season that proves consistency. This indicates that "Aerilon" is the correct spelling. --[[User:Os|Os]] 01:48, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

== Economy of the Twelve Colonies? ==

Not enough information to go on for an article as this? There's some information on the [[cubit]] that concerns the economy of [[the Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]]. [[User:DrWho42|DrWho42]] 16:09, 5 May 2007 (CDT)
:Gather some info, start writing it, and you'll find out. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 15:39, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
::I doubt there is enough information to go around. Anything notetworthy can be added as a subsection of this article. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:44, 8 May 2007 (CDT)

== Aerelon ==

Couple of comments on the references in the Aerelon Section. When he speaks as an Aerelon in Dirty Hands, James Callis appears to have been adopting the stereotype accent and persona of a "working class" Yorkshireman from the North of England. Accordingly:

1. The accent adopted by Baltar is quite clearly a very broad Yorkshire accent from the the North of England. It is definitely not Cockney !

2. The article refers to the Aerelon culture of going down the pub after work for a "pint and a fight" as similar to the culture in Ireland and Scotland. I can confirm that this is most definitely part of English and Welsh culture as well ! In particular Yorkshiremen are well known as tough, no nonsense, hard working characters who like a pint and a rumble. I guess Yorkshiremen would be the Aerelon equivalent in England which is why James Callis probably adopted the accent. {{unsigned|AvonKerr}}
:I changed the first part. It was already identified as northern English in the language article. So would it be ok to say that the pub thing is a somewhat stereotypical view of Ireland and the British Isles in general? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 04:19, 25 May 2007 (CDT)

== Colonial dating ==

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but [[:Image:Kara_Thrace_Record_1.jpg|Starbuck's disciplinary record]] shows a reference to a date. It appears to be "22/E4/''(?)''F3". Anyone know if this is analogous to anything used on Mama Earth, or dare a guess as to how this reflects their own unique method of dating? I also apologise if this isn't the appropriate place for this, as I'm not sure of where else this should be addressed. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 16:08, 27 May 2007 (CDT)
:Seems to be made up. A similar scheme is also used in Adama's dossier in "Hero". It also has a letter/number pair at the beginning, but then a 5 digit number. The show is a very contradictory and has used several dating schemes so far: [[Colonial calendar]]. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:28, 27 May 2007 (CDT)
== Big split ==

What are peoples thoughts about splitting this article into the individual colony pages? this might entise more people to add to the pages and keep the size of this one down. Keep this page purely as an overal article about the colonies as a whole with perhaps a small blurb about each ear and then individual articles to go into more detail? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 04:50, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
:It's not justifiable to do that for all colonies though. It could be done for Caprica, Sagittaron and maybe Aerelon. But there is no point in having a separate article Picon or Libra for example. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 04:53, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
::Splitting off Caprica but not Picon is inconsequent. We should either split them all or split nothing. BTW, if we're gonna split (which I support), I can create a [[Template:Colonies (RDM)]] with a nice list of colonies, a la [[Template:Drugs]]. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 05:54, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
:::That doesn't matter here IMO. There is no logic in creating too many small articles and diluting all information just because a certain part of the article became too large - though it's still manageable. That would be totally counterproductive. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:06, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
::::The colony pages could be exanded though with details and images of the colonial representative for example. I am sure there is more information to be gleaned from some of the other pages that can populate these new articles. Having many smaller pages is surely no different to the article for the little known pilots eg. [[Greenback]] --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 06:17, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
:: Just as an "older perspective", if you will... We once had the Colonies all on their individual pages, until we decided that this was counterproductive and merged it into the page you see here now. Now, granted, we know a little more about the Colonies now -- but we still don't know too much about the colonies outside Sagittaron and Caprica, and, to a limited extent, Tauron. The other 9 are still an enigma. So I don't really see the point of creating 12 articles out of this one article; I can probably see Sagittaron and Caprica as their own articles, with a brief overview of them on this page. Outside that, I think we'd be creating more work for ourselves if we compartmentalized the information as previously suggested. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki &mdash; ''New'']</sup> 07:39, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
:::My "older" perspective concurs as well. We have [[Caprica (RDM)]] and similar redirecting links if fingers are getting tired of typing [[The Twelve Colonies of Kobol#Caprica]] (which I was). Having separate articles makes my personal [[BW:CON|Concision Fairy]] angry, although she is fine when it comes to specific cities where we have some info, like [[Delphi]]. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:55, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
::::How would people feel about summarising the colonies such as Caprica and Aerlion and have a ''See [[Caprica (colony)]] for more information'' line of text just above the summary linking to a more detailed article? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 09:23, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
:::::That's SOP for such a case. See [[Galactica type battlestar]] for example.
:::::What about an own article for Aerelon? There is quiet a bit there now. [[Razor]] might shed some light on Tauron. We'll see. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:01, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
{{mainarticle|Caprica (RDM)}}? That'd be a good solution as well. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 09:26, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
:That's what I was thinking, in addition to a brief blurb about the colony in question. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki &mdash; ''New'']</sup> 11:23, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
:I would support having "main articles" for Caprica and Sagittaron. We know quite a lot about Caprica (probably more than all the other colonies put together) and trying to keep it all in this article is a bit restrictive. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 12:52, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
::I support Caprica and Saggitaron, in addition to Aerelon and Gemenon (although they're somewhat shorter). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 13:05, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
:::I definitely support Caprica and Sagittaron, in addition to Aerelon. Gemenon is kind of pushing it a bit though, since I don't feel that it's worthy of its own article yet due to the limited content we have on this page. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki &mdash; ''New'']</sup> 00:04, 29 June 2007 (CDT)

== Split done ==

Done for [[Caprica (RDM)]], [[Sagittaron]] and [[Aerelon]]. And that's all that should be done for now.

So now that we have more space, the articles could be pimped out a bit more, but I'm not sure how. For Caprica, we could add some more pictures, although they are all already on [[Caprica City]], [[Delphi]] or [[Unnamed cities of Caprica]]. Maybe an orbital shot if there is one pre-nuking? I'm not so keen on adding pictures of residents though. That doesn't tell people much about the planet itself. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:25, 29 June 2007 (CDT)
== Archiving problem ==

How come there are posts from ''2005'' here that are not achieved? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:05, 6 August 2007 (CDT)

== Same System ==

On [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016 This Sci-fi.com blog] RDM says:

"Does it make sense that there would be a star system with 12 inhabitable planets? Not really, but that was in the original and at some point I decided to run with that as another nod to the old show."

Can we consider this to be 'proof' that we are dealing with just one star system here, and eliminate the ambiguity we currently have? [[User:OTW|OTW]] 16:17, 12 August 2007 (CDT)

: Probably the best evidence we have that the Colonies are in one star system, barring any retcons. I'd say go for it, unless others have reasons against it. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki &mdash; ''New'']</sup> 16:22, 12 August 2007 (CDT)
::I'll note it. But we can still note that its status within the series is not clear. People don't have to accept all the behind-the-scenes info, if they don't want to --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:25, 12 August 2007 (CDT)
== Porn Link ==

Hi,

I just removed a link that linked to a pron site. Added was it in this [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=The_Twelve_Colonies_%28RDM%29&diff=132026&oldid=132021 edit]. Can someone conform that there was a blog entry at all or has this entire sentence to be removed?
[[User:DJ Doena|DJ Doena]] 16:42, 13 September 2007 (CDT)

:ARG! That was my fault :( And I know how it happened. Copy/paste mistake. So how did I get to have a porn link in my memory? http://battlestarforum.com/showpost.php?p=1268&postcount=30 *me looks innocent* (no, I'm not into that stuff).
:Yes, there is supposed to be a real link there. I'll look into it. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:00, 13 September 2007 (CDT)
::Now ''there's'' something I've not seen before... :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:46, 14 September 2007 (CDT)
:::Instead of randomly adding links on pages or replaces whole pages with spam, people should take a cue from my example and replace seemingly legit links with spam ;) --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:48, 14 September 2007 (CDT)
::::Waves finger at Serenity --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 13:25, 14 September 2007 (CDT)
:::Best... edit... ever. LOL! --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 17:17, 14 September 2007 (CDT)

== "official" map of the twelve colonies  ==

so there's a new map available from QMX that gives a detailed description of the colonies in astronomical terms.  according to jane espenson and science advisor kevin grazierand in the article describing the map at i09 [http://io9.com/5742034/a-detailed-map-of-battlestar-galacticas-twelve-colonies] , the map [http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/8/2011/01/map_of_the_colonies_1.jpg] is "quasi-canon" and is based on the show bible for ''caprica'' as well as a document written during the production of BSG.  i'm usually loathe to include anything not seen on screen, but i have noticed elements from the show's bible crop up every now and then, and this technical stuff is not necessarily the type of thing they would resolve on screen anyway.  how seriously should we take quasi-canon?  [[User:Pst001|Pst001]] 21:17, 24 January 2011 (UTC)