Editing Talk:The Twelve Colonies of Kobol/Archive1

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== Virgon, Caprica, Ragnar ==

I think it's fair to make them in the same star system, since it seems very reasonable, and having a definitive verb makes the article more encyclopedic.[[User:TaKometer|TaKometer]] 11:41, 1 December 2006 (CST)
:I am pretty sure that Moore confirms that they are in the same star system in the commentary for the miniseries. He said something to the effect that as illogical as it is this is one of the references from the original series that he chose to keep in the new series. I don't really want to rewatch the entire 3 hour mini to find the reference but if someone else would I'm fairly sure I'm right. If so that should be the end of the debate. --[[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 02 February 2007.

:"Fair" and sourced are two different things. The article on [[Cyrannus]] goes heavily into this debate. I appreciate your point, but we need to leave it ambiguous and not [[BW:FANW|add our own unsourced interpretations]] to this. Colonial space is vast and need not necessarily be just a solar system, but the nearby space around it. It is likely that all those items are in a single system, but nothing we have confirms this. We just don't know. Further, the name of a company isn't a valid proof for this point: We have an American airline named "Ted," but I don't think that I can claim that it comes from the country of "Ted." We need to revert the article to keep the interpretation simple. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:25, 1 December 2006 (CST)
::I don't think this is fanwanking, since it is *derived information*:  There's a screen where we see a diagram of Virgon and its orbit relative to the battle and galactica's position, which we know was only hours away from caprica.
::: Adama orders tactical to "begin a plot of all military units in the solar system, friendly or otherwise".  The information that comes back is that the fight is shaping up "near virgon's orbit".  It is also stated that it would have taken 3 days for galactica to get to Ragnar if they hadn't used their FTL drive.  [[User:TaKometer|TaKometer]] 15:38, 30 December 2006 (CST)
::::In reviewing the Mini for another article, I came across something intersting that may apply here. When Gaeta is telling Adama of the location of their squadron early in the attack, the overlay he's writing on says "Caprica Region I." It's upside down on on the top left of the screen, but it's readable.--[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 22:38, 10 June 2007 (CDT)

== New Icons ==

What do you think? We might consider making them smaller and removing the image frame and caption, but I'd also be happy leaving them as they are. It's nice to have a place to note that some of the symbols are only tentatively identified with the colonies in question. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 03:42, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

:It looks fine. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 09:11, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

:: I like 'em. I'd say smaller, though. Of course... I have my thumb settings to 300px so that screen shots are large enough to be intelligible, so smaller to me would be about 150px or 100px. I also like alternating for balance, but that's just me. I alternate right a left in other articles, too. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:21, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

I have a set of colonial glyphs that were lifted from a copy of the voting ballots used in Lay Down Your Burdens Pt1.  I can upload both the cap of the ballot and the vector graphics file of the glyphs.  I've already released the glyphs for public use, so I have no problem with their being used here.  The ballot image I have has Baltar's name blurred out, as that was a spoiler at the time the image was released.  The image orginally came from the Reproduction Props Forum, where a member got hold of one of the actual props used in the episode. --[[User:Scotchfairy|Scotchfairy]] 14:54, 31 July 2006 (CDT)

:Thanks for the offer. It would be nice to get a look at them. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 15:16, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
::Okay, I've uploaded the four jpgs I have of the voting ballot.  They still reside on my server at the moment.  If you decide to include them in the wiki, I'll upload them to the database.<br>
::* [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/PaperProps/VotingBallotSm.jpg Small Image of Ballot Front]
::* [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/PaperProps/VotingBallotFront.jpg Large Image of Ballot Front]
::* [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/PaperProps/VotingBallotBack.jpg Large Image of Ballot Back]
::* [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/PaperProps/VotingBallotTop.jpg Very Large Image of Ballot Top]
::* [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/ColonialGlyphs.gif My version of the colonial glyphs (gif)]
:: If you want to play with the Photoshop custom shapes file, it's [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/LeesBSGshapes.csh.zip here (zip)]. [[User:Scotchfairy|Scotchfairy]] 00:25, 2 August 2006 (CDT)

== Residence vs. Tribe ==

I think there's a difference between "where a character currently makes their residence" and "what colony they are from".  I think "what colony they are from" means "what ''tribe''" they are.  For example, Dualla could have been away from Sagittaron for years and lived on another Colony, but she's still from the Sagittaron tribe.  In "Bastille Day", she describes herself as "a Sagittaron", not "someone ''from'' Sagittaron".  

Anyway, I also think that non-canonical information from SkyOne website should not be used in assuming Stabuck may be from Picon, not Caprica.  We should wait until this is said on either the Scifi.com official site, or on screen.
--Ricimer, 16 Sept, 2005

:Actually, Dee did say "I'm from Sagittaron". [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 10:56, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

::I agree with the original sentiment.  Under the [[The_Twelve_Colonies_%28RDM%29#Natives_2|Caprica Natives]] section, it lists Gaius Baltar, but then clearly states "(Born on Sagittaron)."  If that is the case, then he is a native of ... drumroll please ... '''Sagittaron''', not Caprica.  He may have resided there, but he was a Sagitton.  

::I think this should be changed, but didn't want to just change it without some discussion.  Unless there is a good reason given, though, I'm going to make the change.  /[[User:LucentPhoenix|LucentPhoenix]] 08:26, 20 November 2006 (CST)

:::The source for Baltar's saggitaron origin was an old SkyOne biography which we no longer consider to be a credible source. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 10:58, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::::Ah.... alright, then.  If it's no longer considered credible, we should probably remove the reference from the Caprica Native page, then, shouldn't we?  --[[User:LucentPhoenix|LucentPhoenix]] 15:37, 20 November 2006 (CST)

:::::By all means. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 01:31, 21 November 2006 (CST)

== Outposts ==

Ricimer wrote: ''The Colonials actually expanded their sphere of influence over time beyond the original Twelve Colonies to include several outposts, bases, and mining colonies (such as [[Troy]]) in other systems ([http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html| RDM, January 30, 2005]), though they were apparently minor extensions of the original Twelve Colonies rather than independently functioning worlds in their own right, and when the Cylons overwhelmed the Twelve Colonies themselves no mention is even explicity made about these minor worlds, seeming to take it as a given that the destruction of the Twelve Colonies would equal the destruction of humanity, and that these outposts were not significant enough to pose any challenge to the Cylon fleet.''

RDM's actual comments are:

:Q: "Did the colonies have outposts, bases, or trade partners outside of the 12 colonies. Did they even explore other systems. The colonies could have had observatories, listening posts, or even scientific research teams exploring other planets beyond the colonial system(s). They could encounter any of these which could lead to supplies, raw materials, food, fuel etc. "

:RDM: I think that's probably true, but part of our premise is that the fleet has Jumped far out into unexplored space in an effort to elude the Cylons, so we won't be encountered any other outposts or colonies.

I think that's a very weak confirmation, and if we're going to include it here, it should reflect the vagueness of RDM's actual comment. I have replaced it with the following:

:Ronald D. Moore has suggested that the Colonies probably maintained some minor observatories and listening posts in outlying star systems, but it is unlikely that ''Galactica'' will encounter them in the course of the series. ([http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016|RDM, January 30, 2005])

--[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 20:35, 15 December 2005 (EST)

== Scorpion vs. Scorpia ==

At present, we have a name card from "[[Colonial Day]]" and the name of the [[Scorpia Traveler]] in favor of "Scorpia", and the [[Scorpion Fleet Shipyards]] in favor of "Scorpion". Ricimer, if you want to make a case for "Scorpion" over "Scorpia", you ''must'' cite an episode quote, and I will not produce it for you. Your uncited revisions are anathema to our goal of accuracy. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 13:34, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:I am sorry, I was in a hurry to get out and didn't have time to wip out my copy of the series companion.  On p.86 of "Battlestar Galactica:  The Official Companion", by David Bassom, there is an "''early'' concept sketch of the flags of the Twele Colonies";  On this, it lists the names "Scorpia", but also "Libran", and "Aquarion".  "[[Colonial Day]]" established that these two Colonies are in fact named "Libra" and "Aquaria", in dialog, etc.  This evidence has led me to believe that "Scorpia" was amongst some early ideas for Colony names that were thrown around in the early stages of production, but which were later changed;  however, the art and props department wasn't notified of the switch, or made a mistake, etc.  I'm also inclined to this line of thinking because the props in this scene feature several now-infamous goofs, such as the switcheroo between Canceron, Picon, Leonis, etc., etc.  As for the evidence from "Scorpia Traveler", there's also a "Gemini" ship, as well as mispelling etc. which have led me to the belief that certain ship names are just meant for asthetic value and do not necessarily reflect the actual name of their home Colony.  In "Home, Part II" it was established that the Colonies used to have "ancient names" which align more closely to the signs of the Zodiac, but which over the millenia have drifted away into their present form.  Perhaps some ship captains just felt like naming their vessels after the more ancient names.  I don't know.  But the main points remain:  A) Ship names aren't very reliable as an information source, B) this scene had many goofs in it, C) the official companion shows that this was an early name thrown around, but later abandoned, and several of these early names have been disproven by this point.  Therefore, I think "Scorpion Fleet Shipyards", the first ''prominent'' mention of Scorpion/Scorpia, taken with the above evidence, proves that the true name of the Colony is "Scorpion".  What's everyone else's consensus?  --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 14:24, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::I'm with Ricimer on this one.--Zareck Rocks 15:04, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::I agree with Ricimer, as Cain's mention of the "scorpion fleet shipyards" is the only canonical reference to place when it comes to the scorpio-related colony. It has also been shown, as Ricimer mentions above, that the ship names seem to be variations of the colony names i.e. [[Gemenon Traveller]] and the [[Gemini]]. So we can't necessarily glean the name of the scorpio-related colony from the [[Scorpia Traveller]], for there may also be a Scorpion Traveller. 
::However, unless someone can verify this with subtitles, Cain could be saying Scorpi''an'' fleet shipyards, rather than Scorpi''on'', thereby inferring that the colony name is Scorpia (I dare to speculate that the Caprica would have it's own Caprican fleet shipyards(if it did indeed have shipyards)). I don't have the DVDs, as they're not yet available in Canada, but someone should really check this, it could answer this question --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 16:20, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:::I've grepped the TwizTV logs, and the Scorpia/Scorpion colony has never been referred to apart from the instances we've already listed. So, here's what that means:
:::#We have a mention of the "Scorpia Traveler", which matches the "Gemenon Traveler". "Freighter Gemini" is a TOS reference.
:::#We have a comment that might be the "Scorpion" shipyards, or the "Scorpian" shipyards.
:::#We have a clear and readable screenshot of the name of the colony.
:::We should not "correct" the name of the colony to what we think it "should" be, when we have unequivocal evidence staring us in the face. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 19:09, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::::I'm sorry, but it doesn't really seem like the above evidence is "unequivocal".  Thankfully, I think "Resurrection Ship" will make further mention of ''Pegasus' '' flight from the shipyards, and we will probably hear the name again.  Best to wait until then. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 21:05, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:::::Let me clarify. We have at least seen "Scorpia" spelled out. We have never even ''heard'' "Scorpion", except in a context that might easily have been "Scorpian". In my opinion, the two options here are "Scorpia" or "We don't know". --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 22:45, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::::::Wait a minute, someone out there has got to have the DVD set of the second season, we should be able to determine the definitive name of the scorpio colony from that. Although, I suppose, Peter, that you're suggesting we leave it at Scorpia until someone can check the subtitles. That sounds fine with me. --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 22:56, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:::::::How will that tell us definitively? It was only mentioned in "Pegasus", in the ambiguous dialogue mentioned above. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 23:00, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::::::::Like I said, we stand a good chance of hearing it again in the very next two episodes, so I suggest we leave things as they are, and reach a final decision after "Resurrection Ship, Part II". Although we could get subtitles from the DVD, subtitles can be notoriously innaccurate when it comes to the finer points of spelling, i.e. Scorpion vs. Scorpian.  Perhaps we could rewatch Pegasus, and check the inflection that Michelle Forbes uses; I ''think'' she clearly said "-ion" (as opposed to "-ian").  I'll check again; however, even hearing the dialog personally, I doubt this will give a DEFINATIVE answer in ANY form as the actress could have been just slurring it.  I don't know.  Well, I'll check for the sake of checking.  Again, I think we should "wait and see" on this one.  --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 23:11, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:::::::::I just watched the episode and the subtitles (however inaccurate) do say "Scorpion." It does sound like Forbes says more of an -ion than -ian. Just my two cents. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 23:30, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::::::::::Thank you Talos. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:04, 26 December 2005 (EST)
::::::::::Scorpion would be pronounced with the full vowel "{{IPA|piɑn}}, while "Scorpian" would use a reduced vowel, {{IPA|piən}} or {{IPA|piɨn}}. The latter is what I hear, although Ricimer is right that it could just be "slurring". --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 20:09, 26 December 2005 (EST)
:::::::::::I've isolated Michelle Forbes's pronunciation of "Scorpi_n" and uploaded it [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/scorpian.wav here]. Unfortunately, the last syllable is basically whispered and cannot be analyzed for vowel formants. It does sound very reduced to me, however. This is not usually the case for Picon, Gemenon, etc. which are almost always realized with full vowels.
:::::::::::Note, by the way, that the ''animal'' spelled "Scorpion" would be pronounced the same as the adjective "Scorpian", while a colony called Scorpion would be pronounced "Skor-pee-on". --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 17:05, 28 December 2005 (EST)

Final call for objections before I move the relevant articles. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 02:23, 2 May 2006 (CDT)

== Location ==

I didn't want to get into a revert war, so... How, exactly, are the colonies' positions indicated in the Tomb of Athena? I just watched that ep last night and I don't remember any arrows or name tags... If the theory is that the colonies are inside the constellation that shares their name, then I think I'll have to disagree. Not possible. The zodiac constellations are spread about in our sky in a circle, meaning they're not very near each other at all (so if "the Colonies" can be considered some single area of space that's small enough to go from one end to another inside months they need to be closer than a large ring of space encircling Earth) and all the stars in a constellation aren't even necessarily near each other. --[[User:Day|Day]] 10:42, 4 January 2006 (EST)

:I don't think the positions of the Twelve Colonies are indicated at all by the tomb of Athena. It's just a map to Earth (Earth being the only spot where those constellations would appear in that configuration). It is interesting that would mean that there isn't a direct correlation between the constellations and the colonies that they are named after... (other than as a rememberance of where they came from, kind of). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:50, 4 January 2006 (EST)

:The fact of the matter is that the Tomb of Athena holographic map to Earth shows constellations made of the symbols of the Twelve Tribees/Colonies; these constellations are '''entirely arbitrary'''; that is, they were designated purely because they resemble the symbols of the Colonies; each planet of the 12 is in ''no way'' in each constellation.  Besides, that would mean they'd often end up in separate galaxies.  --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:23, 4 January 2006 (EST)

::Well, no, not separate galaxies, but further apart from each other than each is from earth. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 20:34, 4 January 2006 (EST)

::: My point exactly, Peter. Well said. --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:05, 5 January 2006 (EST)

Can we take the part about all the colonies orbiting the same star out of the article?  I think it's pretty clear that they're all separate systems, unless someone has different information. --[[User:Bahamut|Bahamut]] 02:42, 12 March 2006 (EST)

:Why do you think that's clear? --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 01:59, 12 March 2006 (CST)

::Mostly because of the use of FTL technology, but also because of the improbability of a star having twelve planets that can support human life.  It's discussed elsewhere in the Wiki that it's likely they're all separate systems.  Maybe instead of taking it out altogether we should add a caveat about how it's disputed or at least link to the other discussion? --[[User:Bahamut|Bahamut]] 18:36, 12 March 2006 (CST)

::: (this issue has surely been resolved by now but here goes). There was a commentary in one of the DVD's (I want to say the commentary for the miniseries) where Moore said that even though it makes little sense for their to be 12 habitable planets in the same star system it's still canon. Apparently this was canon in the original series as well and this is a carryover from that. Moore wants some things to carry over from the old series...this is one of them. --[[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 10:40, January 18, 2007.


Upon re-watching the Miniseries (IMHO anyway) all references are given as hours from caprica, but when the war alert first goes off and Cmdr Adama asks to "scan the system" (circa 48mins in) the report is given that "Now, looks like the main fight is shaping up over here near Virgon's orbit" and a few lines latter "If we can keep Virgon between us and the battle". Which to me means that Virgon, Caprica and Ragnar (a gas giant) are all in the same solar system. thoughts anyone? [[User:Pickle UK|Pickle UK]] 00:45, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:I think this is a settled issue. From Moore's blog, [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/#a000016 30 January 2005]:
::Does it make sense that there would be a star system with 12 inhabitable planets? Not really, but that was in the original and at some point I decided to run with that as another nod to the old show.
:--[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 00:56, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:::An important note on this topic is that among young stars, they tend to be grouped in what is known as "stellar associations" which are several stars that are gravitational bound together by virtue of them all being born at the same time in the same stellar nursery and all being within a light year of each other; hence you could call them a system.  Now, over time as they get more to our Sun's age, they will disapate over a great distance and no longer be associated, but this is over 100s of millions to billions of years.  Generally it is considered unlikely that such young stars bear planets that possess life but does not rule out the idea that they have planets... earth-like planets.  Therefore, a stellar association, possessing 12 or more stars....all within a light year of each other...--[[User:StrayCat0|StrayCat0]] 01:40, 10 April 2006 (PST)

::::Honestly, this is the sort of speculation that impedes my enjoyment of the show. It doesn't matter, and I don't care. Feel free to speculate as you will, but I think the whole debate is distracting and unworthy of more than a footnote. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 03:37, 10 April 2006 (CDT)

While Moore's line about borrowing from the original show suggests he means 12 planets, do we actually see anything to suggest there are 12 complete planets?  There could be several colonies on a single planet.  After all the USA was formed from 13 colonies.  This makes things more astronomically possible, though you're not likely to have more than 2 or 3 planets in a star's habitable zone, and one would definitely be better than the others.   The other way this could happen is if you had a collection of large, near-Earth sized moons around a single massive object in the habitable zone.  Then all could have similar insolation and climate.  I don't know how well gas giants would survive in such a hot area but it's at least plausible.    The show Firefly used gas giants with many moons, but unfortunately for its own accuracy, it had several such gas giants, which does not appear to be match known planetary science.  Having one giant with some number of moons, and several colonies per moon also makes it possible to have ships that are not jump capable and still make sense.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 14:56, 2 February 2007 (CST)

== More on flags ==

I found this a while ago.  A user on Sci-Fi.com's messageboard going by "bescincimevsim" has made some incredible renderings of all twelve colonial flags that, in my oppinion look very good and accurate to what has been seen on the show.  It might be worth checking out the [http://mboard.scifi.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=BattlestarGalactica&Number=1310569&Searchpage=2&Main=1310569&Words=bescincimevsim&topic=&Search=true#Post1310569 topic here].  I ''think'' they might be avalible for free use, but then again the guy doesn't seem to be available for contact anymore a he posted only one topic, the one about the flags, then stopped posting altogether in mid October.  Either way, I think it should be worth checking out. -- [[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 18:05, 25 January 2006 (EST)

:We should not use these.  I think they're just fanart.  There is a page in the official companion of *early* flag designs (the names are wrong in some cases, etc. so this page of the book is an early draft and shouldn't be used as fact).  However, this guy also confuses the symbols of Tauron and Leonis.  I mean it's just a guy posting on a messageboard.  The Citation Crusade wouldn't stand for it. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:22, 25 January 2006 (EST)

::The assignment of colony and flag is obviously non-canon, but the graphics themselves are far superior to the ones we're using. We should ask him to license them to us under the CCL. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 18:56, 25 January 2006 (EST)

::Alternately, if he can be contacted, ask him to create corrected ones based on a CCL.--<font color="#4b0082">'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]'''</font> <font color="#2f4f4f">'''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'''''</font> 14:40, 2 February 2006 (EST)
::Well, I've done some tweaking to our icons making them look a little crisper and sort-of rationalised the originals by QuintusCinna and the ones seen on the Sci-Fi BBS by bescincimevsim.  I'll upload them soon and if you don't like them then I guess you can just revert them later.  Just thought I'd help out, is all. -- [[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 00:12, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:::I think they're an improvement. Thank you, Kahran. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 00:57, 17 March 2006 (CST)

== Colonial Flags ==

The Colonial Flags, as listed on this page, have been matched to their colonies based solely on on-screen evidence. Given their dubious veracity on other matters, I am not prepared to take the Official Magazine's word for it over what we've actually seen — at least not without a discussion. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 22:26, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:Okay, then you should know that the flags also match what is written in the Battlestar Galactica The Official Companion.  It has a page for Colonial Day that lists the flasg for each colony and it's the smae as the Magazine flag listings, so that's two sources that support my listings as opposed the shoddy on-screen evidence from the episodes. --Ltcrashdown 22:30, 5 February 2006 (EST)

::I've examined the footage of Colonial Day and QuintusCinna's arguments, and concluded that they aren't very strong. I'm going to revert this back to your version. Do you have a cite for the Official Companion as well? --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 22:35, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:::Here's the info: Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion by David Bassom, page 86, Published by Titan Books, London, August 2005
:::By the way, what was QuintusCinna's source?--Ltcrashdown 22:39, 5 February 2006 (EST)

::::For the colonies at issue here, it was mostly conjecture on his part. I remembered his argument having more basis than it actually did. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 17:26, 8 February 2006 (EST)

== We are Gemenese if you Please! ==

I think the way this works (and once we nail it down, we should put it on S&C, probably) is that someone ''from'' Gemenon is a Gemenon, but the adjective for describing them is Gemenese. So, like, a nice Gemenese Rug or something. This is a throwback to the language of Gemenese in TOS, I think. Now... Is someone from Caprica Caprican and "a Caprica" or does that one match the adjective (like I'm from Texas, thus I am Texan and "a Texan" if that helps)? Whatcha think? --[[User:Day|Day]] 21:07, 19 February 2006 (EST)

== Aerilon? ==

Unless someone cites a source on this spelling correction, I think this needs to be reverted. Anyone? --[[User:Day|Day]] <sup>([[User talk:Day|talk]])</sup> 19:46, 20 March 2006 (CST)
:Seems like other people are using it: http://s9.invisionfree.com/Ragnar_Anchorage/index.php?showtopic=658 the same way. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 19:52, 20 March 2006 (CST)
::It is also on http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/ships/ships/ on the Celestra bio. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 19:55, 20 March 2006 (CST)

::: Well, the forum link is inconclusive, as the poster using that spelling questions it himself and is not, quite frankly, a reliable source. The SciFi.com link is more helpful, but still doesn't help much. They have two different spellings for a couple of the Colonies still around their site, so we can't really trust them on this. Does anyone have a copy of the various writings spawned from the show? If the companions and magazines and scifi.com all agreed, even though none of those are on our big list of accepted sources, I'd consider that a pretty good indication that we'd been misspelling it this whole time. --[[User:Day|Day]] <sup>([[User talk:Day|talk]])</sup> 20:30, 20 March 2006 (CST)

== Spelling ==

This topic keeps coming up, and our spelling conventions do not seem to match the ones generally used throughout fandom, so I want to have a definitive location for sources on spelling used here. Our emphasis, as always, is on citation and accuracy.

The names of six of the colonies can be seen fully spelled out in the episode "Colonial Day". There should be no room for debate on these.
<gallery>
Image:sp-canceron.jpg|Canceron
Image:sp-caprica.jpg|Caprica
Image:sp-gemenon.jpg|Gemenon
Image:sp-leonis.jpg|Leonis
Image:sp-sagittaron.jpg|Sagittaron
Image:sp-virgon.jpg|Virgon
</gallery>

We can also see the first three letters of "Picon":<br>
[[Image:sp-picon.jpg|sp-picon.jpg]]<br>
There's no serious controversy here, as no other spelling has been proposed for that colony.

Although not visible in the episode, the spelling of Scorpia can be clearly seen in a high-resolution [http://galactica.emedian.net/episode/1.11/imagepages/image6.html publicity still]:<br>
[[Image:sp-scorpia.jpg|150px]]<br>
This is complicated by [[Helena Cain]]'s reference to the "Scorpian Fleet Shipyards" in the episode "[[Pegasus (episode)]]". [[Talk:The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Scorpion vs. Scorpia|Extensive discussion]] on battlestar wiki concluded that the visual evidence should be deferred to, and also suggested that she may have been using "Scorpian" as an adjectival form of the colony's name. This was supported by Michelle Forbes's use of a reduced vowel in the final syllable, while other colony names used throughout the series have used the fully realized vowel /ɑ/.

The names "Aquaria" and "Tauron" were given in "[[Colonial Day]]" and "[[Pegasus (episode)]]", respectively. There is no serious debate on their spelling.

Very little evidence is available regarding the colony corresponding to Libra. Neither it nor its citizens have ever been mentioned in the miniseries or 33 episodes aired to date, nor has RDM mentioned the colony in his blog. SciFi.com's website refers to the [[Space Park]] as being of "Libran" registry, but it is unclear whether this is meant to be the nominal or adjectival form of the colony's name (see below).

The name of the colony corresponding to Aries was named as {{IPA|'ɛɹ.lɑn}} in "[[Bastille Day]]". Two spellings have been proposed. It is worth noting that the second vowel, which is the one at issue, is not actually pronounced by actress Mary McDonnell.

'''AERILON'''<br>
'''Official Use'''

The SciFi.com website refers to the [[Celestra]] as being of "Aerilon" registry. This is apparently the nominal form, despite the anomalous use of the adjectival "Caprica" on the "Colonial One" entry on the same webpage. (The adjectival forms of Scorpia (Scorpian, established in "[[Pegasus (episode)]]") and Tauron (Tauranian, established in "[[Resistance]]") are not used.)

RDM uses this spelling in a [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/#a000016 blog entry] dated 30 January, 2005.


'''Fan Use'''
*Google returns approximately [http://www.google.com/search?q=aerilon 400 matches] for this spelling.
*This spelling is used by transcript website SadGeezer.com.

'''AERELON'''<br>
'''Fan Use'''
*Google returns approximately [http://www.google.com/search?q=aerelon 300 matches] for this spelling.
*[http://tviv.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica_(2003)/The_Twelve_Colonies TV IV]
--[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 21:34, 23 March 2006 (CST)


== Should I Add This Or Not? ==

On Wikipedia there is a lot more information on the Twelve Colonies, including founders and names of capital cities.  Should I add this information to the corresponding colony section on this page or is this information that doesn't belong on this wiki? --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 11:04, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
:We're pretty strict about [[BW:CITE|citations]] around here. Unless we can find official sources to back up that info, it doesn't belong here. I'm pretty sure that it hasn't been officially established names for all Twelve Lords of Kobol (if there are exactly twelve, as RDM was a bit vague on this), and I've got no idea where they are getting the capitol names from. If there is an official source, we'd be good, but it feels like this may be derived from fan fiction (which would have NO place on this article) or at best from novelizations/alternate continuity (which could at least be argued, but is still suspect). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:17, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
::Understood.  I just reviewed the article and it said that the names were non-canonical.  In that case, Wikipedia's information has NO place in this article.  If the characters start listing off this information in the next seasons (which I SERIOUSLY doubt they will at this point), I can put it in.  However, I want to note that I found confirmation for Aerelon's capital (including a photo) and the colony description on Google.  You have to type "Aerelon" (make sure it's spelled EXACTLY like that) and then scroll down the top ten results page.  The title is simply "Aerelon" and is located two results under the listing for our own wiki.  The description starts with "Capital: Maegera"--[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 19:24, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
:::That's a fan site. Please read over the [[BW:CITE|Citation Jihad]] for a list of official sources. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 20:00, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

Thank you no end, Homeworld616, for pointing out this grievous error on Wikipedia.  *One person* posted their own fanfic into there:  they even left a warning label: "These following sections contain equal parts fanon and canon.".....er, it is impossible to be both "fanon" and "canon" at the same time.  ----->'''I have personally deleted all of this fanfic from Wikipedia, and warned the user that posted it'''.   Sorry, but they get all kinds on wikipedia.  Thanks for asking us and bringing it to our attention 616--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 20:45, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

:No problem, Merovingian.  It's my pleasure to help make Wikipedia and its associated sites better for all.  I can't believe someone actually tried to pass their fanfic off as fact.  Oh well, so long as it has been deleted.  But we need to watch for other users posting crap around here.  Wikipedia's Twelve Colonies may just be the beginning.  To quote Shakespeare from ''The Tempest,'' "what is past is prologue." --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 01:12, 29 June 2006 (CDT)