Editing Talk:The Temple of Hopes/Archive 1

'''The Temple of Five Lords.'''


I knew I had heard this title before somewhere, In Battlestar Galactica's case it does not refer to this. However, 

::''"In China where Haikou and Qiongshan border on each other there is a grouping of ancient buildings. The group is comprised of temples, gardens and the houses of five famous ministers of the Tang and Song dynasties. Construction of these ancient buildings began during the reign of Emperor Wanli of the Ming Dynasty. The group takes its name from its main building, which is also called the '''Memorial Temple of Five Lords'''. Nine meters in height, the temple is a two-story wooden building covering a floor-space of 560 square meters. During the Tang and Song dynasties, five outstanding ministers were demoted and exiled to Hainan-the bleak end of the earth at that time. And it was to them that the temple was dedicated. With a golden-glazed board reading “Number One Building of Hainan” hung at the front, the temple has become the most popular site among Hainan’s cultural relics."''
::exerpt taken from [http://www.china.org.cn/english/travel/42545.htm Here]
I know that BSG hasn't used any asian references insofar, but I thought it might be interesting to add, and get the imagination going.
--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 07:30, 1 December 2006 (CST)

:This really isn't an article since there's nothing really to say. However, we can keep it as a placeholder since we know of [[Number Three]] and her strange vision quest with five luminous beings, and of the Final Five. Probably related. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 07:51, 1 December 2006 (CST)

::There's nothing to say yet, true... I had thought that there should be at least a "placeholder" as you said, just because there should be an inevitable development around this subject. Anyway never opposed to getting rid of it later if it gets in the way.--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 08:12, 1 December 2006 (CST)

Ok. I'm kind of surprised no one has mentioned this, but the Temple of Five "priests" == [[Cylon Models#Final five|five missing Cylon models]], which are devoted to the one god, a jealous god... connection? [[User:Luis F. Gonzalez|Luis F. Gonzalez]] 00:35, 19 December 2006 (CST)

:Maybe. Maybe. A group of humans who are connected with creation of the first humanoid Cylons? Another link to the Lords of Kobol and the Cylon god? Baltar's ultimate destiny? Much will be answered in the next episode... --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 07:50, 19 December 2006 (CST)
::This leaves one logic gap: the temple is thousands of years old (since the exodus from Kobol happened thousands of years ago), but the humanoid Cylons cannot be more than 50 years old. How can they possibly be connected? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 10:53, 19 December 2006 (CST)
:::Actually the agents couldn't be more than 40 (assuming that only the original chrome-jobs existed at the armistice and made the humanoids, at the earliest, within a year after their exile). Series information tells us that Cylon agents were in the Colonial's midst no earlier than 2 years prior to the [[miniseries]]. The number that the Colonials date the structure is about 4,000 years. This approximates the time of the Thirteenth Tribe's exodus, at about 3,600 years (see [[Pythia]]). The mystery likely involves what Roslin read from the Scrolls: the Temple's five obelisks represent five ''human priests'' (Cylons in ''any'' form did not exist, or so we think) that worshiped the One Who Name Cannot Be (something). Could that entity be the Cylon God (believed to be the "jealous" God of Kobol that led to the tribal exodus)? [[Dodona Selloi]], a human oracle, also relays a message from the Cylon God to D'Anna-Three, further suggesting that the Cylon God and the Lords are Kobol are connected. The [[Hybrid]]'s information about the Eye of Jupiter further reinforces a connection. We know much, and yet so little. That alone gives you a big "holy frak" feeling after watching this cliffhanger. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:47, 19 December 2006 (CST)
::::I see two plausible theories here:
::::1. The fact that there are five missing models and five priests is just a coincidence. The Final Five left Cylon society for some reason and ran across an abandoned manmade temple, which just happened to contain a lot of reference to the number five. Deducing that it had to be the Temple of Five the Scriptures write about, they thought it fitting to leave clues to their identity there.
::::2. The Final Five were somehow 'possessed' (or something similar) by the 'ghosts' of the five priests, and were threatened to be boxed for that, so they fled. They hid clues in the Temple of the Five, a place which they could easily find and was of great importance to them.
:::::Or 3. The [[Religion_in_the_Twelve_Colonies#The Cycle of Time|Cycle of Time]] - The past equals the present. ($PAST == $PRESENT) The five priests of the one [http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=33899428 jealous god] in the past are the same as the five Cylons models. The five in the past came to the same conclusions as the five in the present. [[User:Luis F. Gonzalez|Luis F. Gonzalez]] 12:53, 23 December 2006 (CST)  

::::Both are plausible, but depend on unlikely things: #1 depends on extreme coincidence (five priests, five final models who just happen to find the temple), #2 depends on spiritual things like possession. I hope someone else can come up with a more likely theory. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 13:49, 19 December 2006 (CST)
:::::I just think the scriptures prophesized the 5 priests and built the temple for them, and when the Final Five read the scriptures they eventually became convinced it reffered to them and went and did whatever they had to do at the temple. Much like Roslin's situation: the tomb of Athena was already built even if no one had ever used it before, and Roslin was already prophesized, it only took for her to realize this to go and do it all, but everything else was ready for her. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 13:57, 23 December 2006 (CST)
::::::And whatever they had to do is prophesized in the scrolls, and that is of course creative fodder for the gourmet trough of the next scriptwriters feast of an episode. [[User:Luis F. Gonzalez|Luis F. Gonzalez]] 13:20, 24 December 2006 (CST)

There is a discrepancy. The Temple of Five is dated at 4,000 years old, built by the Thirteenth Tribe. However, Pythia's predictions were 3,600 years ago, and the Exodus from Kobol occurred 1,600 years later, making the exodus of the Thirteenth Tribe 2,000 years ago, rather than 4,000. --[[User:BWMathis|BWMathis]] 18:12, 9 January 2007 (CST)
:Welcome, BWMathis. This was discussed on a couple of other talk pages, but [[Talk:The Eye of Jupiter]] has it. Specifically, based on the information, the 13th tribe left around 4000 years ago. Pythia notes it 3600 years later. Nothing says that Pythia was ''with'' the 13th Tribe; she might have chronicled the event. The 12 tribes left 2,000 years later. Chief Tyrol isn't an archeologist, so he might have rounded up. Or, this might be a retcon. It's close enough to be right, however. See [[Timeline (RDM)]] as well for some other information. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:53, 9 January 2007 (CST)

== Article title ==
Which name should we use as the article title, the Colonial name (Temple of the Five) or the Thirteenth Tribe's name (Temple of Hopes)? -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 08:16, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
:Unless they begin calling it the Temple of Hopes in all future mentions, I think we should stick with the Colonial name for the article title. After all, the show is about the Colonials.-- [[User:David cgc|David cgc]] 14:00, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
::I disagree. It should be changed to the name that it really is. It's a Cylon landmark now, not a Colonial one. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 14:59, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
:::It's both, but in the show it is the Temple of Five for most of the times it is talked about, and it is only briefly noted that it used to be the Temple of Hopes.--[[User:Bradtem|bradtem]] 06:34, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
:::I agree with Shane. We should use the proper name, and see how they will call it from now on (if this is mentioned again)-- [[User:Stavrosg|Stavrosg]] 07:36, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
:::"Temple of Hopes" is the original name, but why is that the "proper" name?  The Thirteenth Tribe had not paid it any mind for a long, ''long'' time, and the most recent and frequent references to it have used the label "Temple of Five."  "Temple of Hopes" has lost its status as the primary reference, and if anything, the recent and frequent label--the one that's familiar to the characters and to viewers of the show--should be considered "proper."  Using Wikipedia as a guide, it's the more recent and frequent labels that are used; for example, Bill Clinton is listed under "Bill Clinton" rather than "William Jefferson Clinton," Microsoft is listed as "Microsoft" rather than "Microsoft Corporation," and the US state of Massachusetts is listed under "Massachusetts" rather than "the Commonwealth of Massachusetts."  I vote for "Temple of Five." .--[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 17:37, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
: A bigger question, one we may not see the answer to, is how the Colonial scriptures know to call it the Temple of Five at all?  Ellen says that they stopped there on their sublight trip, and must have arrived well after the 12 tribes left Kobol for good.--[[User:Bradtem|bradtem]] 07:41, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
::A messenger must have returned from Earth to Kobol c 2000 years ago - how else could the Temple of Athena have been built with a map pointing to Earth? --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 18:05, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
:::Right, but Ellen converted the Temple of Hopes to the Temple of Five on her sublight trip back after "Earth" was nuked, which is supposedly after the 12 tribes left Kobol too.  Well after.   Doesn't make sense, for now.--[[User:Bradtem|bradtem]] 21:08, 15 February 2009 (UTC)