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: You're right. He doesn't have any lines though. Also, I'm pretty sure that's the same footage from the episode where they first jump away. I guess they couldn't get him for the episode, but he got credit for standing around he'd done already. I don't have the earlier episode on me right now. Can anyone confirm that is the same scene (and not a reshoot), and then we can update the details about CKR's absence. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 02:28, 8 June 2008 (UTC) | : You're right. He doesn't have any lines though. Also, I'm pretty sure that's the same footage from the episode where they first jump away. I guess they couldn't get him for the episode, but he got credit for standing around he'd done already. I don't have the earlier episode on me right now. Can anyone confirm that is the same scene (and not a reshoot), and then we can update the details about CKR's absence. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 02:28, 8 June 2008 (UTC) | ||
:: The scenes are from "Guess What's Coming For Dinner?"... there's nothing new there. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 03:29, 8 June 2008 (UTC) | :: The scenes are from "Guess What's Coming For Dinner?"... there's nothing new there. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 03:29, 8 June 2008 (UTC) | ||
== Rebuilding the hub? == | == Rebuilding the hub? == | ||
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::::::::::::But I am not saying "and", I am saying both are a possibility given the lack of evidence for touch/remote telepathy. My theory of Boomer being killed periodically and downloaded for her memories as she was an agent is not fabricating a plot. It is a theory based on the evidence we have heard and seen. Am I saying '''definitely''' that happened? No. Can it be contradicted by later evidence? Yes. Again it is not a question of if they share memories, they do. It is '''How'''. I am saying given what evidence we know now there is no touch/remote telepathy. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 00:16, 14 June 2008 (UTC) | ::::::::::::But I am not saying "and", I am saying both are a possibility given the lack of evidence for touch/remote telepathy. My theory of Boomer being killed periodically and downloaded for her memories as she was an agent is not fabricating a plot. It is a theory based on the evidence we have heard and seen. Am I saying '''definitely''' that happened? No. Can it be contradicted by later evidence? Yes. Again it is not a question of if they share memories, they do. It is '''How'''. I am saying given what evidence we know now there is no touch/remote telepathy. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 00:16, 14 June 2008 (UTC) | ||
::::::::::The scene in "[[Home, Part II]]" is actually when she's talking to Helo in their camp on Kobol. It's toward the 16 min mark. -- [[User:Xlynx|Xlynx]] 17:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC) | ::::::::::The scene in "[[Home, Part II]]" is actually when she's talking to Helo in their camp on Kobol. It's toward the 16 min mark. -- [[User:Xlynx|Xlynx]] 17:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC) | ||
:::::::::::I just reviewed both the transcript and the video and what I said before still stands. She had plenty of time to absorb those memories of getting her first wings and her first trip to ''Galactica'' and such long before the attack on the Colonies and the start of the show. The point is not whether the do or not share memories, that is a given, they do, again it is '''''How''''' they do it and there is no evidence of either touch or remote Wifi like telepathy. | :::::::::::I just reviewed both the transcript and the video and what I said before still stands. She had plenty of time to absorb those memories of getting her first wings and her first trip to ''Galactica'' and such long before the attack on the Colonies and the start of the show. The point is not whether the do or not share memories, that is a given, they do, again it is '''''How''''' they do it and there is no evidence of either touch or remote Wifi like telepathy. Athena got Boomer's memories the available evidence shows is like how the Eight in ''The Hub'' described, she accessed Boomer's memories after her last download. Did we see it? No, but that is what the available evidence says happened, and the available evidence also says that living Cylons stick their hands in a datastream of some type to do so. Do we know that for sure? No, but that is what the evidence is telling us. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 00:16, 14 June 2008 (UTC) | ||
It has often been implied that the Cylons have some easy (and invisible) way of sharing information with other members of their model. See [[Precipice#Analysis]] where Athena comments "I'm not wired in. It doesn't work like that". When Boomer was a sleeper agent she could have been "wired in" without knowing it. Alternatively, another Cylon infiltrator in the fleet could somehow have accessed her memories and transmitted them at opportune moments. Alternatively, the part of Boomer who knew she was a Cylon could have transmitted information during the moments she was "at the helm". I don't think it has ever been implied that death and resurrection is a necessary precondition for the sharing of memories. [[User:Haukurth|Haukurth]] 21:55, 11 June 2008 (UTC) | It has often been implied that the Cylons have some easy (and invisible) way of sharing information with other members of their model. See [[Precipice#Analysis]] where Athena comments "I'm not wired in. It doesn't work like that". When Boomer was a sleeper agent she could have been "wired in" without knowing it. Alternatively, another Cylon infiltrator in the fleet could somehow have accessed her memories and transmitted them at opportune moments. Alternatively, the part of Boomer who knew she was a Cylon could have transmitted information during the moments she was "at the helm". I don't think it has ever been implied that death and resurrection is a necessary precondition for the sharing of memories. [[User:Haukurth|Haukurth]] 21:55, 11 June 2008 (UTC) | ||
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::None of this evidence refutes the possibility of voluntary memory sharing through datastream terminals or physical contact. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 01:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC) | ::None of this evidence refutes the possibility of voluntary memory sharing through datastream terminals or physical contact. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 01:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC) | ||
:::Could it be possible for two live Cylons to stick their hands in a data stream and absorb each other's memories? Sure, but my point and I think the point of the analysis was whether they had ESP like abilities. They didn't and circumstances say they don't. As for them being touch telepaths we have seen no evidence specifically to prevent that possibility but we also have seen no evidence to support it either. At least we have the evidence of them controlling the Hybrid with the data stream and my example of young William Adama putting his hand in a Cylon tank to support the possibility of them sharing memories like that. We have seen them talking among themselves like normal people sharing ideas that way. No Cylon Mind Meld. If they could share memories with a mere touch we would had seen it by now. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 02:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC) | :::Could it be possible for two live Cylons to stick their hands in a data stream and absorb each other's memories? Sure, but my point and I think the point of the analysis was whether they had ESP like abilities. They didn't and circumstances say they don't. As for them being touch telepaths we have seen no evidence specifically to prevent that possibility but we also have seen no evidence to support it either. At least we have the evidence of them controlling the Hybrid with the data stream and my example of young William Adama putting his hand in a Cylon tank to support the possibility of them sharing memories like that. We have seen them talking among themselves like normal people sharing ideas that way. No Cylon Mind Meld. If they could share memories with a mere touch we would had seen it by now. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 02:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC) | ||
::::We sort of have. Consider the behavior of the various distinct Cavil models at the beginning of season 3, in which Ellen uses sex with one Cavil to bribe a different one to release Saul. Also, consider the way individuals in each model seem empowered to act as "speaker" for the entire line without, as far as we've seen, conducting some kind of physical poll. --[[User: | ::::We sort of have. Consider the behavior of the various distinct Cavil models at the beginning of season 3, in which Ellen uses sex with one Cavil to bribe a different one to release Saul. Also, consider the way individuals in each model seem empowered to act as "speaker" for the entire line without, as far as we've seen, conducting some kind of physical poll. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC) | ||
:::::Not necessarily, we long known that the models act in unison, that they all think alike (except for the ones with extensive human contact) Individualism as we know it didn't exist with Cylons but that doesn't mean they use touch to convey memories and thoughts. And yes, they very like develop group consensus off screen polls within their model line and vote as a mass, but again not evidence of touch telepathy, just maybe great conference calling. :-) [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 05:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC) | :::::Not necessarily, we long known that the models act in unison, that they all think alike (except for the ones with extensive human contact) Individualism as we know it didn't exist with Cylons but that doesn't mean they use touch to convey memories and thoughts. And yes, they very like develop group consensus off screen polls within their model line and vote as a mass, but again not evidence of touch telepathy, just maybe great conference calling. :-) [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 05:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC) | ||
What if the Eight who was shot in "Faith" who reached out to Athena for physical contact was attempting a memory transfer before she died? --[[User: | What if the Eight who was shot in "Faith" who reached out to Athena for physical contact was attempting a memory transfer before she died? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 07:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC) | ||
:If they can transfer memories by touch, the Six in Faith could've transferred her memories to [[Natalie]]. Anyway, we know that Cylons can interface with [[datastream]] terminals by touch, we know that a living Cylon's knowledge and memories cannot be accessed against their will ([[Home, Part I]]), we know that the resurrection process produces some form of memory backup which other copies of the same model can access against their will ([[The Hub]]) and we know that the Eight who would become Sharon Agathon had some of Boomer's memories ([[Flesh and Bone]]). We don't know if Cylons can communicate with eachother through physical contact, and we don't know if memory sharing requires special equipment. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 08:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC) | :If they can transfer memories by touch, the Six in Faith could've transferred her memories to [[Natalie]]. Anyway, we know that Cylons can interface with [[datastream]] terminals by touch, we know that a living Cylon's knowledge and memories cannot be accessed against their will ([[Home, Part I]]), we know that the resurrection process produces some form of memory backup which other copies of the same model can access against their will ([[The Hub]]) and we know that the Eight who would become Sharon Agathon had some of Boomer's memories ([[Flesh and Bone]]). We don't know if Cylons can communicate with eachother through physical contact, and we don't know if memory sharing requires special equipment. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 08:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC) | ||
::Don't forget young William Adama in ''[[Razor]]'' putting his hand in that tank and getting that flood of images, that is probably how the Eight accessed Athena's memory. To answer Peter Fargo through you (this is an awkward way to communicate): While anything is possible I think that moment was an intent to convey a certain human touch. That Athena has become so estranged from her people she even couldn't show affection to a fellow dying Cylon. Adama in ''[[Sine Qua Non]]'' alluded to how Athena regards her people when he accused her of hating her own kind so much that she will seize any opportunity to kill one. Anyway, if they could exchange information via touch they wouldn't waste time talking to each other, especially about critical matters but we have seen them talk, including about critical matters when they were alone on Baseships without humans to fool. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 11:30, 12 June 2008 (UTC) | ::Don't forget young William Adama in ''[[Razor]]'' putting his hand in that tank and getting that flood of images, that is probably how the Eight accessed Athena's memory. To answer Peter Fargo through you (this is an awkward way to communicate): While anything is possible I think that moment was an intent to convey a certain human touch. That Athena has become so estranged from her people she even couldn't show affection to a fellow dying Cylon. Adama in ''[[Sine Qua Non]]'' alluded to how Athena regards her people when he accused her of hating her own kind so much that she will seize any opportunity to kill one. Anyway, if they could exchange information via touch they wouldn't waste time talking to each other, especially about critical matters but we have seen them talk, including about critical matters when they were alone on Baseships without humans to fool. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 11:30, 12 June 2008 (UTC) | ||
:::To be honest, its probably best to accept that the writers will juggle around the rather ill-defined memory sharing thing to suit whatever dramatic purposes an episode needs. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 19:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC) | :::To be honest, its probably best to accept that the writers will juggle around the rather ill-defined memory sharing thing to suit whatever dramatic purposes an episode needs. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 19:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC) | ||
::::I don't think it is ill defined at all. There is simply no situation that demonstrates telepathy, either touch like a Vulcan or remote like a pure blood Batazed (Dianna Troi's people on ''Star Trek: The Next Generation'') Even the case of Athena having the memory of leaving Helo behind when it should had been only Boomer's. I more or less closed because Athena was heading for the Refinery ship alone in her Raptor and the Cylons could had taken her, especially after a probe buzzed the Fleet. There is no time gauge as to how long she took between the fleet and the refinery ship so even that anomaly of Athena what clearly should had been only Boomer's memory could have a plausible explanation. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 00:16, 14 June 2008 (UTC) | ::::I don't think it is ill defined at all. There is simply no situation that demonstrates telepathy, either touch like a Vulcan or remote like a pure blood Batazed (Dianna Troi's people on ''Star Trek: The Next Generation'') Even the case of Athena having the memory of leaving Helo behind when it should had been only Boomer's. I more or less closed because Athena was heading for the Refinery ship alone in her Raptor and the Cylons could had taken her, especially after a probe buzzed the Fleet. There is no time gauge as to how long she took between the fleet and the refinery ship so even that anomaly of Athena what clearly should had been only Boomer's memory could have a plausible explanation. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 00:16, 14 June 2008 (UTC) | ||