Editing Talk:The Hub/Archive 1

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==Picture==

Where is it from? Are there more? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 20:20, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
:http://www.bsg.cz/4-09-hub-promofotky-3 -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 20:22, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
:: Thanks! I wonder why there are none for Sine Qua Non so far. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 23:14, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
::: Can anyone identify the gun Cavil is holding there? [[User:OTW|OTW]] 14:55, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:::: Looks like a Walther PPK actually...the shape of it is a dead giveaway. -- [[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 09:55, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
::::: Maybe we should change the picture; unless I missed it (which seems unlikely, as I pay extra attention when Cavil's on screen), that scene didn't make the final cut of the episode. Something from the episode would be nice: the Hub, D'Anna, maybe even Elosha. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 02:28, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::: Read my mind. :) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 03:40, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

==The The==
The SciFi website omits the preceeding "The" from the episode title. Just bringing it up because I'm of a lower class with no ability to move pages and the such. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 11:47, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
:"The Hub" was confirmed by Bradley Thompson, so I guess it's the correct title. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 15:08, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
::NBC Universal's Media Village says "Hub", too, and they were right with the one-L "Traveled", too.  "Hub" would be a painfully dull title, though. --[[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 16:35, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
:::How did these two sites report "'''The''' Road Less Traveled"? With our without the "the"? In this case, it's obviously a Biblical quote and the "The" is clearly supposed to be there. And yeah, no one in their right mind would call an episode "Hub". --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 18:10, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
::::''no one in their right mind would call an episode "Hub".'' – Eh... why not? –[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 03:48, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
The episode is titled "The Hub"... we knew this months ago, thanks to [[BW:OC|our own source]]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 03:48, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

==Teaser==
I'm sure anyone who's seen this knows by now, but just in case... In the teaser from "[[Sine Qua Non]]", D'anna says something like "You didn't know you were one of the final five", then' Laura Roslin is shown.
I avoid spoiler blogs & the like, so I don't know: Intentional, or too obvious? –[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 04:04, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
:That could easily be some clever editing. As we saw in Sine Qua Non, the conversation between Tigh and Adama was much longer before Tigh hit Adama, but the preview made it look like Tigh hits him right after Adama asks him what he was thinking re: C-Six. There are no guarantees that those two share a scene in the episode, but we'll just have to wait and see. --[[User:Kevin W.|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color: #006400">Kevin W.</span></b>]]<sup>&bull;[[User talk:Kevin W.|<span style="color: #DC143C ">So say we all</span>]]</sup> 18:00, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
::Yeah. Drawing anything from this is completely ridiculous. Promos are often very misleading. Sometimes deliberately, but often there just isn't the time to convey any real meaning. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:06, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
:::IMO she's probably talking to Anders. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 03:47, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
::::I don't think Anders is there. I think she's messing with Roslin. We know they share scenes. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 04:15, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::Anders ain't anywhere, it seems... Odd. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 03:27, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

== Callum Keith Rennie is in the episode ==

He appears right at the beginning, when everyone is still kind of hanging around the hybrid.
: You're right. He doesn't have any lines though. Also, I'm pretty sure that's the same footage from the episode where they first jump away. I guess they couldn't get him for the episode, but he got credit for standing around he'd done already. I don't have the earlier episode on me right now. Can anyone confirm that is the same scene (and not a reshoot), and then we can update the details about CKR's absence. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 02:28, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
:: The scenes are from "Guess What's Coming For Dinner?"... there's nothing new there. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 03:29, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
::: An actor gets credited in an episode if they actually appear when it airs. If an actor's only scene gets cut from the show, then no credit. Recaps don't count, obviously, otherwise the credits would go into act 2 :). Callum got a credit because, as someone has pointed out, he appears at the head of the episode. I'm taking out that part of the notes, if no one objects. -- [[User:Mmm...toasty|Mmm...toasty]] 19:48, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
::::Actually, "[[Razor]]" is another example of several actors being credited despite not appearing in ''either'' version of the movie or any recap (weirdly, Trucco is being credited, despite not even having any logical role in the thing). And Rennie doesn't appear in the actual episode. He's really only in the recap. Unless it's somewhere far in the background where you can't really see him. Which still points to more substantial scenes being deleted. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 19:59, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::Boxey in "Water", anyone? :) Conner had a bunch of scenes that got cut, so no credit.
:::::Razor's creds had a lot of errors, mostly because of the different versions simultaneously being worked on. There are the actors that only appeared in the webisodes that Paul added to the DVD credits because he thought it'd be a nice thing to do, since they have no credits.
:::::And the post coordinator would like everyone to know that she had nothing to do with the Razor credits and that they do not meet her exceedingly high standards. Anybody bringing it up to her can expect to have a "Cally" done on them. -- [[User:Mmm...toasty|Mmm...toasty]] 22:33, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

== Rebuilding the hub? ==

> Why do the Cylons have only one Resurrection Hub and the implied inability to build another?
> Are the Cylons capable of building a new Hub, and if so, how long it would it take them? 

My personal theory is - they can have more than one, and they can rebuild it, but it takes considerable time and resources, too much to have another one ready before the end of the war.

On the other hand - maybe it is possible to modify / reconfigure Res Ships to not require the Hub to coordinate them?

[[User:Lilianne Blaze|Lilianne Blaze]] 04:34, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

: Maybe the reason the cylons cannot rebuild it, is because it was built by whoever pogrammed/created the humanoid cylons in the first place, and they just weren't implanted with the knowledge required (similar to the knowledge of the final five). This may be evidenced by the fact that the resurrection facilities share a different design "philosophy" than the rest of the cylon fleet. [[User:Raziel Anarki|Raziel Anarki]] 15:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

:: I though about that too, but somehow it just doesn't fit. I think operating / maintaining the resurrection ships, especially growing the spare bodies, keeping them in perfect condition and ready when needed, would require enough knowledge to rebuild it. Also note the resurrection ships are clearly both an important target and a limited resource, but there are no implications that they can't be rebuild. Cylons are able to dumb down the Raiders and smart up the Centurions, so it's not like they only use what they have, they obviously know a lot, even if not all, of their own inner workings. As for the knowledge of the final five - I think they have it, it's just repressed somehow, waiting for a trigger. I suspect when confronted with hard evidence they'll know "just like that". Yes, I do realize these aren't exactly strong arguments. [[User:Lilianne Blaze|Lilianne Blaze]] 13:31, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

== Airlocked? ==

How come this page wasn't kept airlocked until the British release date, but Sine Qua Non was kept airlocked until the American and Canadian release date? I thought the entire point was to keep the page locked down until the episode had been fully released. Doesn't this portray double standards? [[User:Otterstat|Otterstat]] 10:07, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
: The episode was first released on Friday in America, not on Tuesday. (SciFi told SkyOne to not release the episode early... long story.) The point of locking down the pages is to prevent multiple people from bum-rushing the episode page after it had aired with edits, which degrades the performance of the wiki's server. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 13:59, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

:: Aye I know, and the British release date has been pushed back to Tuesday, so the roles are exactly reversed - what I'm saying is that last week the page was locked until the episode had aired in America, but this week it was unlocked straight after it was aired in America despite not having been aired in Britain yet. I thought another reason it was airlocked until the episode had aired in both areas was: "Locking articles give everyone a chance to watch the episode before a wiki visit could spoil that." I'm just a bit confused as to why it's been un-locked prior to the episode being aired in Britain, is all. [[User:Otterstat|Otterstat]] 14:07, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

:::Let me put it to you this way, just over half of our audience is American. The other half is oversees, with less than a quarter of that half being from the UK. We actually get a lot more traffic from Canada and Germany than we do the UK... 

:::Further, we always airlocked the pages for the American airings, because that's when the Wiki is hardest hit... after US airings. Not UK airings. And, actually, "Sine Qua Non" proved that, because the traffic was more evenly distributed between the two air dates for that episode. You can see some of this statistical data for yourself [http://www.quantcast.com/battlestarwiki.org here]. Also, to answer your question, you don't have the permissions needed to lock our unlock pages; that's an ability only the chiefs have. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 22:24, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

== psych! ==

Can we get Three's joke at Laura's expense in the Notable Dialogue section? I can't remember it word by word myself. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 21:25, 8 June 2008 (UTC)`

: There we go. What an amazing moment. If there's any problems with how I formatted it, feel free to tweak it. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 23:49, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

== Deleted scene or misplaced promo image? ==
I don't remember seeing Cavil holding a gun or wearing a hat, and we have had production number related misunderstandings before. Do we know that this image is from The Hub (episode 9, production number 411) and not [[Sometimes a Great Notion]] (episode 11, production number 413)? -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 03:22, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
:It's not a mistake. This is not the first time that promo images from (later) deleted scenes were released. For example "[[Torn]]" had one or two with Doral, Boomer, Six and Hera in a church, and "[[A Measure of Salvation]]" had a scene with Thrace interrogating Leoben. They are on the DVDs and summarized [[List of Deleted Scenes - Season 3 (RDM)|here]]. We should chose a different picture, but the other promo pics for the episode aren't really any good. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:42, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
:I can grab something from the HD version... Any ideas? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 15:48, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
::Maybe a wide shot of the Cylon and human pilots assembling? -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:18, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

== Accessing other's memories ==

*In the Analysis section there is this:

:"....However, earlier in Season 1, Agathon somehow has access to Sharon "Boomer" Valerii's memories, but was never killed or resurrected in the Miniseries. There is no explanation for this, other than an inference that Cylons can share memories outside of the actual download and resurrection process; how Valerii was able to do this after leaving Caprica is unknown."
:----
:It is right we never heard in the series how the then Caprica Sharon, now Sharon "Athena" Agathon, got a hold of Sharon "Boomer" Valerii's memories but I think it is not much of a leap to say that as a undercover infiltration agent Valerii was killed a number of times at regular intevals by the Cylons off screen probably during her shore leaves. Tyrol and Valerii had a torrid relation ship for a long while before the attack we know. Valerii had been stationed on Galactica for two years prior to the attack, that is plenty of time to kill her repeatedly. We have seen how the Cylons were blasé about death and resurrection. Remember how the Three in the bombed parking garage casually offered to Caprica Six to kill her because C-6 had a broken leg? If they could do that then no big deal; just kill Boomer, her memories download in to the communal repository (as well as a new body) and send her off again thinking she was human. Meanwhile have the future Athena absorb somehow Boomer's memories. Now the question is how does a living Cylon absorb the downloaded memories. In fact, I think I will put that up as a new question. Does Athena-or the Eight in ''The Hub''-have to die first? Of course we will have to wait to see it in the series for these questions can be answered in canon. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 06:04, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
:: Well, this does not explain how Agathon has Valerii's memories of abandoning Karl Agathon on Caprica. There's really no wiggle room there for her to "die", particularly as she lifts off with a bunch of survivors, including Boxey. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 06:11, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
:::It depends on the wording and context. Did she say that as a cover story? It could be, and I sure it is, as simple as other Cylon agents could had seen Helo and their agent Boomer part after he gave up his seat to Baltar and they told Athena by simple conversation about Boomer leaving Helo behind. We have seen the other Cylons observe Helo and they did report to each other verbally so I think it can be easy said that The Cylons simply told Athena just like a normal human would tell another human. I have to see either the scene or the transcript of the scene to be sure. What episode was that scene in? [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 06:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC) 
:::: Athena didn't verbally claim to have Boomer's memories of leaving Helo behind, she had a flashback to it. Boomer could conceivably have been killed sometime before returning with the refinery ship to the fleet, followed by a Raider, but we don't know if that's necessary. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 23:25, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::What episode was that? The flashback I mean. And what episode was the refinery ship she was coming back from in (I remember a lot but have forgotten a lot too). I'll check. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 01:47, 12 June 2008 (UTC) 
:::::: The former, Flesh and Bone. The latter, the Miniseries. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 04:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Thanks! I will check it out. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 05:11, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Apologies for not discovering this discussion earlier, but I added" [[Flesh and Bone]]" (20 mins in) for the flashback and also "[[Home, Part II]]" (15 mins in) as Agathon's verbal description of having Boomer's memories. These seem to be the exceptions - in the later series, it's a "download only" thing. [[User:Serenity|Serenity]], you say "[[Scar]]" is also relevant? -- [[User:Xlynx|Xlynx]] 17:47, 12 June 2008 (UTC) 
::::::::Depends on what you mean by relevant. It's just a very obvious example where she recalls Boomer's memories. Specifically her time as pilot on ''Galactica'' ("Yeah, I remember. You were like a big sister to..."). This is just about a few examples to illustrate the point. There may be more, but more than two or three aren't really necessary to say that such a thing did happen. It's not even necessary to find the earliest ones. But just listing the episodes and saying "earlier in the series" is probably better than just "in Season 1" -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::Again I have to answer someone through another person but it is necessary. To "Xlynx" and "Noneofyourbusiness": I checked out the Flashback scene in "Flesh and Bone" of Caprica Sharon (Athena) running through the forest back to Helo after she was given orders to either settle down with him on Caprica of kill him. During her run back there was a montage of scenes. All of them were Athena's memories of her on Caprica with Helo-except one. The one is when she is depicted taking off in the Raptor leaving Helo behind. That was supposed to be Sharon "Boomer" Valerii, not the future Athena. However, not to be difficult, that could had been a production error since it is so brief and so far the only example. Is there another example if so then one can start to say it means something but I admit it is there. 
:::::::::As to the when she was in her cell in ''Home, part II'' of her reminiscing with Starbuck in her cell, sure she has Boomer's memories of Starbuck being a big sister to her no one disputes that Cylons shared memories; it was '''''HOW''''' they do it, touch telepathy, remote telepathy or only though asorbing memories after someone dowloads. In this case the "Big Sister" memory of Boomer's there is nothing to specifiy when that memory happened. It could had happened anytime before the attack in the two years Boomer was stationed on Galactica and Athena could had accessed Boomer's "Big Sister" memories any time before the attack as well. Boomer's memories as I said in and earlier post could had been downloaded in to a master database at regular intervals when Boomer was killed regularly delivering, unbeknownst to her, progress reports, so where her memories of Tyrol. Athena had plenty of time to access those.
:::::::::What makes the brief flashback scene of Athena taking off and leaving Boomer behind on Caprica is that there wasn't apparently enough time for Boomer to be killed in transit with Baltar & co. to Galactica and download her memories for Athena to absorb and Boomer to rejoin the fleet, but I said it could be a production error. Now I was told by "Serenity" that Boomer was sent to a refinery ship after dropping off Baltar and the other passengers on Galactica. That would be on Day 1 or 2 of the attack I ''think''. The Flashback scenes Athena was having on Caprica as she ran though the forest happened on day 25. It is conceivable that Boomer was killed between heading to or back from the refinery ship, downloading and then the Cylon repositioned with her new body to fly back to Galactica. 
:::::::::It is all a matter of timing. We have to track both Boomer's and Athena's movements in the first few days after the attack very carefully (it would only be a few days since Boomer would had had to stay with the Fleet at some point). Meanwhile until more evidence emerges either way I still lean to the explanation of a production error. Some editor got their Eights confused LOL! [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 03:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)     
::::::::::Boomer dying, resurrecting and re-infiltrating the Galactica off-screen without being noticed on multiple occasions times is ''possible'', but IMO it's sufficiently implausible to count as [[Battlestar Wiki:Fanwanking|fanwanking]]. IMO the most likely explanations are that there is a non-lethal form of memory sharing or that the flashbacks were just the other Eight imagining or [[projection|projecting]] based on a description from one of Boomer's subconscious reports, and the flashbacks were in third person and completely accurate because third person flashbacks are one of the genre conventions of film and television, and because reusing existing footage for flashbacks is far easier than justifying the budget allocation necessary to re-shooting the scenes in first person, particularly if the latter option would require new set construction or greenscreening due to the fourth wall. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 04:46, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::None the less I watch the scene in which Athena flew back to the Refinery ship to escort it back to the fleet. on the way there she was alone, no one was with her and there is no time indication that I saw that showed how long she was gone, so it is at least plausible she could had been taken or her hidden Cylon programming activated to take a detour to a Baseship killed resurrected and sent back out to keep her appointment with the refinery ship. That way Athena could had had access to Boomer's download files almost at anytime in the next 23 or so days and incorporated Boomer's post attack memories into hers. I admit there is NO evidence for that but it is plausible especially with her hidden programing protocols taken into account. as to fanwanking, I am not saying this is for a fact what happened but discussing what is plausible given the evidence, the purpose of the discussion site. As to the fourth wall, well we know of some of BSG's history before the attack including that Boomer was a pilot for a long time before so we don't have to restrict our explanations to only to what was shown on screen, just keep it within the bounds of available evidence that HAS been shown on screen. If you believe that it is implausible for Boomer to have been killed multiple times off screen before the attack, then it is implausible for people to thing that the Cylons are touch or remote telepaths, because there has been nothing shown on screen to support that. And if there is no evidence of that then what is left? What we do know through the Eight's statement in ''The Hub'' about her absorbing Athena's memories after her last download. In order to do that a Cylon must die. That is the evidence that we have right now. Therefore Boomer must had died at some point between the Fleet and the refinery ship when she was alone in order for the future Athena to have that first hand memory of her taking off from Caprica and leaving Helo behind. And how do they absorb those memories? From the evidence we have now through a datastream. Is that a dead on certainly yet? No, but we have a '''''hell''''' of a lot more evidence for that than the telepath hypothesis. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 05:36, 13 June 2008 (UTC)    
:::::::::::Agreed - whether a plot inconsistency or deliberate, it ''is'' implied on multiple occasions during the earlier seasons that memory sharing is possible without download, though there's still (intentionally) much mystery surrounding the Cylon's non-human abilities. To say there was both a production error in the flashback ''and'' unseen deaths is fabricating plot, so this topic should remain unless future episodes clarify these abilities. No one is saying it definitely happened, we're just saying there's an apparent inconsistency, and that is noteworthy. -- [[User:Xlynx|Xlynx]] 17:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::::But I am not saying "and", I am saying both are a possibility given the lack of evidence for touch/remote telepathy. My theory of Boomer being killed periodically and downloaded for her memories as she was an agent is not fabricating a plot. It is a theory based on the evidence we have heard and seen. Am I saying '''definitely''' that happened? No. Can it be contradicted by later evidence? Yes. Again it is not a question of if they share memories, they do. It is '''How'''. I am saying given what evidence we know now there is no touch/remote telepathy. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 00:16, 14 June 2008 (UTC)        
::::::::::The scene in "[[Home, Part II]]" is actually when she's talking to Helo in their camp on Kobol. It's toward the 16 min mark. -- [[User:Xlynx|Xlynx]] 17:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::I just reviewed both the transcript and the video and what I said before still stands. She had plenty of time to absorb those memories of getting her first wings and her first trip to ''Galactica'' and such long before the attack on the Colonies and the start of the show. The point is not whether the do or not share memories, that is a given, they do, again it is '''''How''''' they do it and there is no evidence of either touch or remote Wifi like telepathy. Caprica Sharon (Athena) most likely got Boomer's memories the available evidence shows is like how the Eight described how she got Athena's memories in ''The Hub''; Athena accessed Boomer's memories after her last download, either in a Baseship or a planet side datastreem like we saw in ''Exodus Part II''. Did we see it? No, but that is what the available evidence says happened, and the available evidence also says that living Cylons stick their hands in a datastream of some type to do so. Do we know that for sure? No, but that is what the evidence is telling us. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 00:16, 14 June 2008 (UTC) 

It has often been implied that the Cylons have some easy (and invisible) way of sharing information with other members of their model. See [[Precipice#Analysis]] where Athena comments "I'm not wired in. It doesn't work like that". When Boomer was a sleeper agent she could have been "wired in" without knowing it. Alternatively, another Cylon infiltrator in the fleet could somehow have accessed her memories and transmitted them at opportune moments. Alternatively, the part of Boomer who knew she was a Cylon could have transmitted information during the moments she was "at the helm". I don't think it has ever been implied that death and resurrection is a necessary precondition for the sharing of memories. [[User:Haukurth|Haukurth]] 21:55, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
:I think there just was in ''The Hub'' itself that death is necessary when the Eight told Helo she accessed Athena's memories after her last download. I believe that '''''is''''' what the then called Caprica Sharon (Athena) meant when she told Roslin that "....it doesn't work like that." The way it work is that a Cylon has to die download into the communal data bank and then the curious Cylon could absorb the resurrecting Cylons memories. I myself believe they have to stick their hand into a data stream just like they do when monitoring the Hybrid (and when Young William Adama in ''Razor'' stuck his hand in that primitive Cylon resurrection tank like pool just before the First Cylon War ended). 
:I read the Precipice Analysis and there is no evidence of a wireless transmittable way for Cylons to share memories at a distance, just a lot of speculation without evidence. If the Cylons could share info ESP like then Pegasus wouldn't had been so successful in their hit and run tactics against the Cylons with Gina on board; also Gina after she excaped could had told where Galactica was with out setting off a nuke.  

:Galactica be wouldn't had been able to hide even for a while with the Doral, Leoben and D'anna Biers in the fleet or an extended period of time. Instead, in the original miniseries they relied on a transmitter that Gaeta found that wasn't familiar equipment. 

:The Cylons in the movie theater on Caprica wouldn't had to rely on using Raiders to relay footage of Athena giving birth to know that she was alive. They would had known that by taping into D'anna's memory of her seeing her.

:Now the Hybrid has some ESP powers because it sensed the distress of Natalie being shot and as the Eight said panicked and '''JUMP!'''(ed). Also humanoid Cylons can vaguely sense when their own kind is near, like how Caprica Six told Roslin that the Final Five was in the fleet but can't tell she was making love to one (Tigh). Similarly (almost) Athena couldn't tell Anders and Tyrol were two of the Finals when she spoke to the rookie Anders when they were about to go into battle in the nebula. However, I do concede that the Finals are different from the recently created Cylons, but then there is this case most tellingly: When the Fleet captured a Cavil after he came back from Caprica with the Caprican Resistance and Anders. He couldn't tell that they already had another One in custody (the one that consoled the troubled Tyrol). He tried to maintain his innocence until they opened a door and there he sat, the jig was up. All this tells me they can't anymore read each other's minds-even their own model's minds-anymore than we can. "It doesn't work like that." [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 01:24, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
::''I think there just was in The Hub itself that death is necessary when the Eight told Helo she accessed Athena's memories after her last download.'' Death and resurrection may be a ''sufficient'' condition without being a ''necessary'' one. [[User:Haukurth|Haukurth]] 08:44, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
::None of this evidence refutes the possibility of voluntary memory sharing through datastream terminals or physical contact. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 01:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Could it be possible for two live Cylons to stick their hands in a data stream and absorb each other's memories? Sure, but my point and I think the point of the analysis was whether they had ESP like abilities. They didn't and circumstances say they don't. As for them being touch telepaths we have seen no evidence specifically to prevent that possibility but we also have seen no evidence to support it either. At least we have the evidence of them controlling the Hybrid with the data stream and my example of young William Adama putting his hand in a Cylon tank to support the possibility of them sharing memories like that. We have seen them talking among themselves like normal people sharing ideas that way. No Cylon Mind Meld. If they could share memories with a mere touch we would had seen it by now. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 02:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
::::We sort of have. Consider the behavior of the various distinct Cavil models at the beginning of season 3, in which Ellen uses sex with one Cavil to bribe a different one to release Saul. Also, consider the way individuals in each model seem empowered to act as "speaker" for the entire line without, as far as we've seen, conducting some kind of physical poll. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 03:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::Not necessarily, we long known that the models act in unison, that they all think alike (except for the ones with extensive human contact) Individualism as we know it didn't exist with Cylons but that doesn't mean they use touch to convey memories and thoughts. And yes, they very like develop group consensus off screen polls within their model line and vote as a mass, but again not evidence of touch telepathy, just maybe great conference calling. :-) [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 05:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
What if the Eight who was shot in "Faith" who reached out to Athena for physical contact was attempting a memory transfer before she died? --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 07:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:If they can transfer memories by touch, the Six in Faith could've transferred her memories to [[Natalie]]. Anyway, we know that Cylons can interface with [[datastream]] terminals by touch, we know that a living Cylon's knowledge and memories cannot be accessed against their will ([[Home, Part I]]), we know that the resurrection process produces some form of memory backup which other copies of the same model can access against their will ([[The Hub]]) and we know that the Eight who would become Sharon Agathon had some of Boomer's memories ([[Flesh and Bone]]). We don't know if Cylons can communicate with eachother through physical contact, and we don't know if memory sharing requires special equipment. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 08:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
::Don't forget young William Adama in ''[[Razor]]'' putting his hand in that tank and getting that flood of images, that is probably how the Eight accessed Athena's memory. To answer Peter Fargo through you (this is an awkward way to communicate): While anything is possible I think that moment was an intent to convey a certain human touch. That Athena has become so estranged from her people she even couldn't show affection to a fellow dying Cylon. Adama in ''[[Sine Qua Non]]'' alluded to how Athena regards her people when he accused her of hating her own kind so much that she will seize any opportunity to kill one. Anyway, if they could exchange information via touch they wouldn't waste time talking to each other, especially about critical matters but we have seen them talk, including about critical matters when they were alone on Baseships without humans to fool. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 11:30, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:::To be honest, its probably best to accept that the writers will juggle around the rather ill-defined memory sharing thing to suit whatever dramatic purposes an episode needs. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 19:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
::::I don't think it is ill defined at all. There is simply no situation that demonstrates telepathy, either touch like a Vulcan or remote like a pure blood Batazed (Dianna Troi's people on ''Star Trek: The Next Generation'') Even the case of Athena having the memory of leaving Helo behind when it should had been only Boomer's. I more or less closed because Athena was heading for the Refinery ship alone in her Raptor and the Cylons could had taken her, especially after a probe buzzed the Fleet. There is no time gauge as to how long she took between the fleet and the refinery ship so even that anomaly of Athena what clearly should had been only Boomer's memory could have a plausible explanation. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 00:16, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

There seems to be a bit of confusion as to why no other Cylon had D'Anna's memories. Grace Park has said that only same-model Cylons can share memories in interviews more than once. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 04:38, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

==Tow cables vs. magnetic grappling==
I was under the impression that they used the tow cables to hide the <s>Raptors</s> ''Vipers'' behind the Heavy Raiders. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 02:47, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
:The only on-screen tethering was between the Heavy Raiders and the Vipers.  And I don't think it would have made sense for Raptors to be in the initial assault, as they are not really built for dogfighting.-- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 09:54, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
::Yeah, I meant Vipers. My previous post was a comment on the "Why didn't the Vipers simply magnetically grapple themselves to the underside of the Heavy Raiders, instead of relying on tow cables?" entry in the article's questions section. Anyway, The Hub's rerunning on Space next sunday, I'll see if any explanation is given in the episode. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 03:29, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
:::That would be far too logical. ;-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 05:21, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

== Basestar(s) destroyed along with the Hub ==

Does the script or production notes for this episode indicate if one or both escort basestars were destroyed?-- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 09:50, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

== Raider pilots ==

Why were the raiders piloted by humanoid cylons?  Aren't centurions better suited for combat? [[User:Capedia3|Capedia3]] 04:49, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
: Centurions now have free will, and may have not wanted to fly fighter craft. However, it was more of a budgetary issue, and obviously the dialogue between the human pilots and the Cylon pilots would've been... well, how do you converse with Centurions who (still apparently) do not have the ability to speak? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 05:33, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
:: And of course ... the opportunity to introduce the humanoid Cylon flightsuits.  :-) -- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 06:44, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


== Basestar Defence  ==

At the battle (0:24:50) I can see a lot of explosions. Are this explosions missiles shot by raiders/Vipers, or missiles hit by other missiles? Or are this eventually Flak-missiles?  --[[User:Enabran|Enabran]] 08:16, 6 October 2012 (EDT)