Editing Talk:The Fleet (TRS)/Archive 1

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== Comment ==
I think we should add Galactica, and Pegaus in the fleet's listings.--[[User:QX100|QX100]] 7:59, 1 Oct 2005 (EST)

== Astral Queen ==

:I thought the [[Astral Queen]], from the New series, had 900 prisoners. Does anyone have a mini-series transcript? That's where the ship is first mentioned. -- [[User:Neochiiz3000|Neochiiz3000]] 12:07, 11 Jul 2005 (EST)

: Billy Keikeya - "Uh, the captain of the Astral Queen wants to you to know he's got nearly 500 convicted criminals under heavy guard in his cargo hold. They were being transported to a penal station when the attack happened." -- [[User:yenguyen|YeNguyen]] 13:09, 11 Jul 2005 (EST)

:I thought so... I was only off by about 400.  Better than a full thousand, though. -- [[User:Neochiiz3000|Neochiiz3000]] 13:39, 11 Jul 2005 (EST)

:: It's 1,500 -- though in the mini-series Billy said 500.  (Again, his trademark "crappy math" at work.) See: [[Bastille Day#Notes]]. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 13:40, 11 Jul 2005 (EDT)

:I wouldn't want BIlly as my secretary. I know that much :P -- [[User:yenguyen|YeNguyen]] 14:18, 11 Jul 2005 (EST)

== Celestra in New BSG ==

:Isn't there a Celestra in the new series, too? I thought I had read that somewhere (or maybe it was that one of the new ships was based on the Celestra design). [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 13:57, 11 Jul 2005 (EDT)

:: It's listed on the Sci Fi Channel's BSG page. Though as to whether or not it is canon has yet to be determined. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 14:17, 11 Jul 2005 (EDT)

:::If you get a close up of the ''Celestra'' in "Water" and "Colonial Day", you see the name of the ship written on the side. Same with the ''Striker''.--[[User:CoreyDanian|CoreyDanian]]

== Size of the Fleet ==

"Saul Tigh's assertion in 'The Farm' that the twenty four ships which departed with the Laura Roslin faction during her insurrection represented 'almost a third of the fleet' imply that the number of ships in the Fleet is approximately in the mid-70's."

Could it be that Tigh was referring to the ''population'' of the fleet instead of the number of ships?  Passenger and crew numbers vary considerably from ship to ship, but Tigh may have done more accurate math on the ones that had jumped earlier, then did a quick--but dependable--estimate when the last batch jumped.

:No, because he wasn't looking at a readout of WHICH ships had left; all he heard was "24 ships have left" with no names, so he couldn't be basing it on population, it had to be ship number;  of course the problem presented is what if he was rounding ''down''? --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 21:47, 30 October 2005 (EST)

::Yeah, and then there's context, too--if somebody's looking at/listening to information about ships, they would probably frame their immediate response to the information in terms of ships, too.  Rounding down would be the only way for the writers to explain their way out of the inconsistency.  That, or the Colonel's been taking math lessons from Billy. . . . --[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 22:07, 30 October 2005 (EST)

:::From The Farm, we know that 24 ships was "almost a third of the fleet" - Tigh has no rason to underexagerate this. From Home, Part I, we know that the number of people in those 24 ships was actually a little over a third of the fleet's population. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 09:39, 31 October 2005 (EST)

Here's something to think about in regards to the size of the fleet and how it increased from 40 to over 70 since the mini-series.  In the mini-series, Roslin sent Boomer out with her Raptor to gather other ships which ended up with a ragtag fleet of 40 or so FTL-capabale ships and some other ships that were future space debris when they had to be left behind.  Adama sent out a Fleet Wide Communication for all capable ships to jump to the Ragnar Station and roundevous with the Galactica.  It's possible that the 30 or so extra ships that the fleet ended up with were other craft that recieved the communication and headed to Ragnar without hooking up with Rolsin's group.  Does anyone else agree with this assessment?  I think it's valid considering the chaning size of the fleet and would justify the presence of more than one refinery ship (one arrived with Roslin's group and others showed up in response to Adama's message).  --[[User:Ltcrashdown|Ltcrashdown]] 20:16, 1 January 2006 (EST)

: I think you may be losing sight of what's, well, possible. Several things established in the Mini were changed for the series. When they were making the Mini, they weren't sure that there was going to be a series, so they didn't exactly plan on it. So those thirty ships came out of the script room. However, since then, we can probably better assume that the fleet size will be more consistant and, thus, worth talking about in terms of in-the-show reasons. --[[User:Day|Day]] 20:39, 1 January 2006 (EST)

::It's an admirable attempt at a [[Wikipedia:no-Prize|no-prize]], but has some problems of its own - Adama's order only went out to military units: "Send a message to all the colonial military units. Use priority channel one. Message begins: "Am taking command of fleet." Apollo then reads the message in full from Colonial One: "To all colonial units, am taking command of fleet. All units ordered to rendezvous at Ragnar anchorage for regroup and counterattack. Acknowledge by same encryption protocol, Adama."

::So I think I have to agree with Day - unless each of the 30 ships happened to have a colonial military officer with military ciphers on board, I don't see how they could have found Galactica at Ragnar. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:49, 1 January 2006 (EST)

:::Well, it was worth a try.  I thought I remembered the message only being for military ships, but if you consider that Dee or Gaeta are Cylons, then they may have 'accidentally' sent the message to non-military ships to increase the number of potential Cylon sleeper agents.  Just a thought. I figured the message from Adama was just about the only way for more ships to arrive.  --[[User:Ltcrashdown|Ltcrashdown]] 21:27, 1 January 2006 (EST)

::::I think what Tigh said in "The Farm" should be ignored because Dualla said in "33" that fifty three ships had jumped with ''Colonial One'' and nine other ships still had trouble, two ships that could be heard saying they were jumping in the background radio calls and ''Galactica'', giving us 66 ships. In "You Can't Go Home Again", Tigh says that there are 60-odd ships, meaning that there was about 65 ships. With the addtion of the ''Pegasus'', the number goes back to 66. On the vote tally boards, the one on ''Colonial One'' had 50 ships and ''Galactica'' had 54 names, plus the ones not included but mentioned in episodes bring it to 66 all up. ''Cloud 9'' and three other ships destroyed brought the number to 63 and two ships could've been taken apart to make the Cylon buildings on New Caprica (''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' had eighteen civilians ships, including a mining ship, the Space Park luxury liner, ''Celestra'', five-engined vessel, the six tubed vessel, the cargo transport seen orbitting near ''Cloud 9'' in [[Colonial Day]] and the wedge-shaped vessel). With the destruction of ''Pegasus'' and the disappearance of ''Adriatic'' and ''Carina'' the number could be anywhere between 58 and 61 ships.--[[User:CoreyDanian|CoreyDanian]]

:::::I think the number would actually be about 40 to 50 ships as of "[[The Passage]]" as each jump had at least 8 to about 10 ships in all five jumps.--[[User:CoreyDanian|CoreyDanian]] 16.19 Saturday 10 November 2007

== Botanical Cruiser ==

Kahran writes: ''(While the original was destroyed in the Mini-Series, various background shots have placed an FTL-equiped Botanical Cruiser in the fleet.)''

Are you sure that's not Cloud 9? They have similar external features. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:02, 27 November 2005 (EST)

::I'm positive it's the Botanical Cruiser.  They've re-used the FTL jump shot from the Mini Series at least once during season two. Durring "[[Scattered]]" when the fleet is making its emergencey jump there's a shot of various ships jumping away and right in the dead centre of the shot is the Botanical Cruiser from the Mini-Series. [[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 20:32, 1 January 2006 (EST)

I noticed it too.  Curious, either a mistake (like the B5 shot of the Agamenon destroying civilian transports) or it could be that  it is a simalar fhip that IS equiped with FTL.  It's possible that drives are used on ship as needed.  If a ship is NOT intended to travel over interstallar distances, then it wouldn't need a FTL drive.  FTL drives are probably costly to make, maitain, or operate -- not to mention the fuel/energy requirments.  If a ship was only ment to operate in-system, an FTL drive might not have been cost effective.  The inclusion of an ARGO ship is a tip of the hat to ship's inclusion in the opriginal series.  In the original, stock footage of the ship from the movie SILENT RUNNING was used.  In this new show, an original designed vessel was created -- probably because people knew about the stck footage use -- [[User:Centuri|Centuri]] 06:29, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:The article for the [[Botanical Cruiser]] notes the origin. Yes, it was a recreation of the [[Agro Ship]] as an homage to the ships used in TOS, which were the redressed models used in ''Silent Running.''. That the Botanical Cruiser may seem to appear in the fleet suggests (from a story POV) that there is a FTL-capable ship of similar appearance that joined the Fleet. I think it's a gaffe--the visual effects people used stock footage or models and didn't think. Also, understand that FTL in the RDM series is apparent travel, not true "warp drive"-like flight. See the [[FTL]] article for a good synopsis. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:32, 8 January 2006 (EST)

== FTL ==

Acording to the article, in the original show "With the exception of Galactica, the ships were not capable of lightspeed. "  I would like to know where this particular tidbit came from.  As I remember some ships originallly were sub-light, but they were reto-fitted to be FTL capable.  The problem was that none of them were capable of HIGH FTL speeds.  Remember the specs of the Galactica show that she was capable of a flank speed of 10C.  Remember, they were croosing not just interstellar space, but intergalactic space.  If they were only in the Greater Magelanic Cloud, it would mean having to cover a distance of 140,000 light-years to get here.  At anything other than FTL, the goal would be unatainable.  Crossing interstellar distances requires FTL, no ifs, no ands, no buts.  -- [[User:Centuri|Centuri]] 06:29, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:In the RDM series, FTL is FTL, it's not a matter of speed, but of distance in terms of the "length" of a wormhole that can be made from place to place. RDM's universe sticks to Einsteinian theories. TOS stories generally were a mismash of "science" that sometimes got in the way of the story. The Fleet probably moves at a good distance on each Jump, but space is really big. Like their TOS counterparts, it will be some time before they find Earth. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:38, 8 January 2006 (EST)

== Oh, Split ==

This article needs splitting and name-spacing, doesn't it? Into "The Fleet (RDM)" and "The Fleet (TOS)"? Is there a good reason not to split it that I don't know about, or... can I do it this evening? I was planning on moving it to "The Fleet (RDM)" and then copy/pasting to the TOS page and then making this one a disambiguation page. --[[User:Day|Day]] 10:30, 10 January 2006 (EST)

:No, go ahead. You might leave a redirect to the RDM article for now - I'll help you go link hunting tonight. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:10, 10 January 2006 (EST)

:This is a happy kind of work that has to be done, now that our TOS pages are coming into their own. I'll look for double redirects and the like after you two pick through. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:56, 10 January 2006 (EST)

::Blech. That's my half. It's all you, spence. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:20, 10 January 2006 (EST)

== Ships in the fleet ==

Shouldn't the TR-61482, a cargo transport that looks like Kimba Huta be in the list and Gemenon Traveler picture be changed? {{unsigned|CoreyDanian}}
:What episode was TR-61482 featured in? What's wrong with the picture of the Gemenon Traveler? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:30, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
::The TR-61482 was the transport in the mini-series that the Gemenon Traveler page is using. And with the Gemenon Traveler picture, have you seen the real Gemenon Traveler used in "Flesh and Bone". {{unsigned|CoreyDanian}}
:::Where did this name come from? Was is mentioned in dialogue or in writing? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 03:41, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
::::It's visible on the publicity render. I don't think that merits it an article. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:46, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
Why not? It is a ship that has been seen with a name. By the way, has someone seen "Flesh and Bone" and checked ''Gemenon Traveller''?--[[User:CoreyDanian|CoreyDanian]]
:Yes, I have. Why do you ask? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:45, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
::Can someone get a picture of the ''Gemenon Traveler'' from Flesh and Bone then?--[[User:CoreyDanian|CoreyDanian]] 10.31 24 October 2006
:::Yeah, I'll get one before I sack out tonight. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:52, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

:Hey, I just did alot of editing for this page by updating some information. Can someone also double check "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II" for ''[[Hittes Kan]]'' and ''[[Tarbadeck]]''s spelling cause I think they are actually called ''Hitei Kan'' and ''Tarbadek''. P.S. For a picture of the yellow vessel blown up in the [[Cloud Nine]] explosion, check [[Act of Contrition]], [[Miniseries, Night 2]] (as you see above the [[Botanical Cruiser]]), [[Flesh and Bone]], [[Scattered]] and [[Black Market]]. My computer doesn't have the tech to get screenshots from the DVDs to Computer.--[[User:CoreyDanian|CoreyDanian]] 16.15 Saturday 10 November 2007
::Hey I just checked for you with my Hi-Def and you're right on both counts.  Interestingly enough, the ''Tarbadek'' is actually out of alphabetical order on Roslin's board.  Using both the vote tally board, and the one on Colonial One, I found some others that need changing.  For instance, the ''[[Picon Express]]'' is actually the ''Picon Princess''.  There is another ship on Roslin's board that is clearly not the Mutem Wia, but I can't make it out (right column, second down).  The ''[[Chiron]]'' is actually the ''Chrion''.  I see a completely new one called the ''Azemenarius'' below the ''[[Astral Queen]]'' but because it's so hard to read I need conformation on that before it becomes an article.  The ''[[Bretan]]'' looks more to me like the ''Breton''.--[[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 23:59, 9 November 2007 (CST)
:::That also fits with [http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1608071055&size=o&context=set-72157602485969223 this] behind the scenes photograph of a clipboard with some of the names. The thing is that "Chiron" fits well with a character from Greek mythology, while "Chrion" doesn't. On the other hand, it's pronounced as "Chrion" in "The Passage", so I'll change that too --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:23, 10 November 2007 (CST)
::::Interesting, the Hyrrokin is actually a figure in Norse mythology. That photo is a wealth of information.  Too bad we can't use it for more than reference.  Can we at least use the population counts of the ships listed? --[[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 14:31, 10 November 2007 (CST)
:::::Hey I still need an admin to move "Hittes Kan" to "Hitei Kan", and "Tarbadeck" to "Tarbadek".  Thanks! --[[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 17:34, 11 November 2007 (CST)
::::::I've given you move permissions, so you can make those changes. ;-) Just simply hit the "move" tab and follow the wizard. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki &mdash; ''New'']</sup> 18:37, 11 November 2007 (CST)
:::::::Thank you!!!  That means a lot.  I'll get right on it.--[[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 21:34, 11 November 2007 (CST)
:Question, Why is [[Chrion]] placed in her new position on the list if there is no picture? Besides, why do you think Chrion is a passenger liner, we only know that Thera Sita could be a transport-freighter because the shot zoomed in on Apollo's Raptor. P.S. Someone download a picture for [[Thera Sita]].--[[User:CoreyDanian|Corey Danian]] 13.25 25 November 2007
::Well i think what's important is whether or not the ship is seen on screen, not necessarily if we have a picture for it, and in that regard, the ''Chrion'' is a special case.  If you watch "[[The Passage]]", in the scene with the ''Thera Sita'', you can barely see the ''Chrion'' just before Kat says that she's "got eyes for the Chrion".  It's the part where you can see her Raptor from the outside, and you can hear her talking, there is the rear of a barely visible ship in the haze.  You see enough of it to recognize that it's one of those luxury liners.  Additionally, when the Raptors are lining up before the jump, one of them appears to be escorting the solid orange luxury liner, meaning that one of them was on the first jump. The visual from the episode where it is verified is too bad to put on the site, and we cannot positively verify that the orange luxury liner we see before the jump is the ''Chrion'' (two of them could very well have gone in), although it's very likely. But yeah we do need a pic for ''Thera Sita''. --[[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 23:38, 24 November 2007 (CST)
:::I just watched Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II again and confirmed that ''Azmerak'' is actually ''Azmenarius''. Can someone deleted ''Azmerak'' so we don't confuse anyone?--[[User:CoreyDanian|CoreyDanian]] 14.50 November 28 2007
:::::Hey, I watched [[Maelstrom]] with subtitles and [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] told [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] that he was taking [[Hera Agathon|Hera]] to a psychiatrist on the ''Inchon Velle''! So that would confirm that [[Incron Velle]] is the wrong spelling. Can someone change that around so to confirm it was in the fleet as of Season 3.--[[User:CoreyDanian|CoreyDanian]] 2 January 2008 20.53 CST
::::::Done. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki &mdash; ''New'']</sup> 21:06, 2 January 2008 (CST)

== Cleanup idea ==

I think we need to update it to show which ships have been confirmed as been in the fleet as of Season 3. Much Like this; <br>
''Astral Queen'' (by sight) ([[Crossroads, Part II]]) <br>
''[[Celestra (RDM)|Celestra]]'' (by sight) ([[Crossroads, Part II]]) <br>
''Chrion'' (by sight) ([[Crossroads, Part II]]) <br>
''Colonial One'' ([[Crossroads, Part II]]) <br>
''Cybele'' (mentioned) ([[Crossroads, Part II]]) <br>
''Daru Mozu'' ([[Crossroads, Part I]])
''Demetrius'' ([[Season 4 (2008)]]) <br>
''Faru Sadin'' (mentioned) ([[The Passage]]) <br>
''Galactica'' ([[Crossroads, Part II]]) <br>
''Gemini'' (by sight) ([[Crossroads, Part II]]) <br>
''Gideon'' (mentioned) ([[The Son Also Rises]]) <br>
''Greenleaf'' (mentioned) ([[Crossroads, Part I]]) <br>
''Inchon Velle'' (mentioned) ([[Maelstrom]]) <br>
''Monarch'' (by sight) ([[Crossroads, Part II]]) <br>
''Prometheus'' ([[Crossroads, Part II]]) <br>
''Pyxis'' ([[Crossroads, Part II]]) <br>
''Space Park'' (by sight) ([[Crossroads, Part II]]) <br>
''Striker'' (by sight) ([[Crossroads, Part II]]) <br>
''Thera Sita'' (by sight) ([[Crossroads, Part II]]) <br>
''Zephyr'' (mentioned) ([[The Son Also Rises]]) <br>
A list for those destroyed or missing or evacuated <br>

''Pegasus'' destroyed in the [[Battle of New Caprica]] ([[Exodus, Part II]]) <br>
''Cloud Nine'' destroyed over [[New Caprica (RDM)|New Caprica]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]) <br>
''Olympic Carrier'' destroyed by Vipers ([[33]]) <br>
''Botanical Cruiser'' destroyed by Cylon Raiders ([[Miniseries]]) <br>
''Gemenon Liner 1701'' evacuated by ''Colonial One'' ([[Miniseries]]) <br>

And a list for those unknown {{unsigned|CoreyDanian}}

:I don't think that's necessary. Unless they are specifically mentioned destroyed, they can be assumed to to still exist. Yes, some were lost on New Caprica, but your list is just as incomplete, only in another way. The information just isn't that useful IMO. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 03:11, 9 January 2008 (CST)

:Thinking about this again, maybe the following would be neat. Take a look at [[Razor]] and note the "Razor DVD Only" template. We could have such a thing for the ships. One with "Destroyed" and maybe one with "Confirmed survived" or some such, if anyone else thinks that that information would be worthwhile to have. I'm not sure if it's possible to use colors, but red/orange vs. green might look good here to distinguish the two. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:42, 10 January 2008 (CST)