Editing Talk:The Face of the Enemy/Archive 1

=="The" Question==
Hi, since I'm not a native speaker I have a question. Is the name of the webisodes "The Face of the Enemy" as it says on the SciFi Wire or "Face of the Enemy" as you have it? Thanks :) -- [[User:Deus|Deus]] 06:41, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
: Could easily be both, and the script actually uses both variants (with and without "the"). However, since the cover page uses "The", I've moved it for now. (Also, really, the use of "the" is unnecessary as it is more or less implied had they simply said used the title "Face of the Enemy".) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 15:25, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
:: So, it seems, there is no "The" after all... :) [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/webisodes/] -- [[User:Deus|Deus]] 04:28, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
::: Sadly, the script's cover page uses the word "The"... Not that it matters much, since linking to "Face of the Enemy" will lead here anyway. ;-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 05:03, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

== Names written down ==

Even though we don't know their importance is right now, I've tried compiling the bits of the list that are legible/seen:
Blue<br>
Roe,<br>
Hitchcock, Jasper<br>
Kim, Philip<br>
Hah, Crai-pny<br>
Ehile, Zahef<br>
Magrath, Shana<br>
Blue, Steven<br>
Fish, Stacy<br>
Rose,<br>
--[[User:DrWho42|DrWho42]] 18:36, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
: I have the full complete list. In fact, this piece of paper is important for two reasons. The first you'll learn in the webisode near the end. However, most importantly, this is the last prop to ever be shot in the series. :P
: Also, "Rose" should be "Rose, Wayne"—a deliberate nod by the actor/actress (who I won't name yet, you'll find that out in time) to the director of the webisodes. I should know, I was there when they shot it. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 18:49, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
::Envy runs cold through my veins, Joe. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 02:49, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

== Commentary ==

Are the commentary accessible outside of the United States? I can't find it in the downloads section. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 05:29, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
: The Espenson commentaries are integrated into the streaming feed on SciFi.com. They aren't available as a separate MP3, I'm afraid. I'm sure if you searching on youtube, you might find something. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 05:38, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

== Episode Chronology ==

Why is this episode positioned between 'Sometimes A Great Notion' and 'A Disquiet Follows My Soul' when 'Razor' is positioned between 'Razor Flashbacks' and 'He That Believeth In Me'? [[User:Genji2000|Genji2000]] 07:41, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

:[[The Face of the Enemy]] was released before "[[Sometimes a Great Notion]]" for promotional reasons, but it takes place between "Sometimes" and "Disquiet" and the episodes make the most sense when viewed in that order. Air date is usually the best way to go, but in this case I'm leaning towards internal chronology, especially given that all three were aired pretty close to one another.
:As for Razor, I think that while it takes place during season 2, it makes more sense positioned where it is now, given the "Harbinger of Death" reveal at the end, it would be too much of a spoiler back in season 2, and it assumes knowledge of the Cylon Hybrids when introducing the First Hybrid. Also, moving it by more than one season in the chronology section is more of a big deal than moving the webisodes one episode away.

:Also, Razor is a kind of flashback, since it shows past events in a new light, while "Face of the Enemy" viewed before "Sometimes" is actually a flashforward, showing events that happen a few days later. Before I knew that it's actually set after "Sometimes", it was a bit confusing to me. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 11:06, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

:: I think that to be consistent that it goes where it was aired. If we let it stay the was it is now, it will end up being the only "episode" not in the "aired" sequence. I am pretty sure that "The Plan" will be at the end, not co-locating with the mini-series. However, many moons ago, we used to vote on stuff like this. Maybe it is time to start doing that again. -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 18:40, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
:::Well, unlike "Enemy", Razor (and likely The Plan) require knowledge of events from further in the series than they are set in chronologically, and contain spoilers that would destroy some tension when watched earlier. So there are reasons to watch them as aired, while there are none for "Enemy", since that was done for promotional purposes only. Also, it started with someone basing the population count difference in the infobox for "Disquiet" on "Enemy" rather than on "Sometimes", which was then inconsistent with the chronology section, so I changed the latter.
:::I think the best solution would be to have two "chronology" sections - airdate chronology and in-universe chronology. It could be used only for episodes where the two are not the same, while the other episodes would still use a single infobox section. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 23:03, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
::::I like the two chronology section. Had though about it today before seeing you have the same idea. -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 02:33, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
There's also no correct place to put "Razor", as its frame story takes place during the missed time of the "one year later" cutahead in LDYBII, and its flashback events span the miniseries and first season, so the only sensible way to place it in the chronology is based on its airdate. "Enemy" is very clearly a "lost episode" set between "Sometimes" and "Disquiet", and it makes the most sense to put it there. Consistency is not everything. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 07:17, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
:Razor's frame story does not take place during the missed time in "one year later". It takes place somewhere between "The Captain's Hand" and "Lay Down Your Burdens". However, we can't be sure whether it takes place before, after or during Downloaded. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 16:09, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
@@ Line 41: / Line 41: @@
 :::I think the best solution would be to have two "chronology" sections - airdate chronology and in-universe chronology. It could be used only for episodes where the two are not the same, while the other episodes would still use a single infobox section. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 23:03, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 ::::I like the two chronology section. Had though about it today before seeing you have the same idea. -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 02:33, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
-There's also no correct place to put "Razor", as its frame story takes place during the missed time of the "one year later" cutahead in LDYBII, and its flashback events span the miniseries and first season, so the only sensible way to place it in the chronology is based on its airdate. "Enemy" is very clearly a "lost episode" set between "Sometimes" and "Disquiet", and it makes the most sense to put it there. Consistency is not everything. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 07:17, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
+There's also no correct place to put "Razor", as its frame story takes place during the missed time of the "one year later" cutahead in LDYBII, and its flashback events span the miniseries and first season, so the only sensible way to place it in the chronology is based on its airdate. "Enemy" is very clearly a "lost episode" set between "Sometimes" and "Disquiet", and it makes the most sense to put it there. Consistency is not everything. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 07:17, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
-:Razor's frame story does not take place during the missed time in "one year later". It takes place somewhere between "The Captain's Hand" and "Lay Down Your Burdens". However, we can't be sure whether it takes place before, after or during Downloaded. But yeah, the point is that there are problems with placing it chronologically, while there are none for "Enemy". [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 16:09, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
+:Razor's frame story does not take place during the missed time in "one year later". It takes place somewhere between "The Captain's Hand" and "Lay Down Your Burdens". However, we can't be sure whether it takes place before, after or during Downloaded. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 16:09, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
-== Question ==
-''Although shot after the conclusion of the fourth season, the events depicted in these webisodes help to explain Gaeta's animosity toward the Cylons in the latter episode. ''
-Were the webisodes part of the original plan, even if they were filmed afterward? Or did they just decide to make them afterward to explain Gaeta's behavior? --[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 17:05, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
-: They were filmed during "The Plan," and they were made to explain Gaeta's behavior and motivations. You can say they were made "after the fact." -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 15:25, 8 June 2009 (UTC)