Editing Talk:Squadrons of Galactica/Archive 1

== Squadron? Or Wing? ==

Sounds like the big categories are really wings:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_%28air_force_unit%29]

Except for the shield for "raptor 10" (which may actually be a squadron anyway) there is no explicit reference to them as squadrons.   After all, there are color-coded viper squadrons which are clearly operating under the (vigilantes) wing. {{unsigned|TaKometer}}

:You might be right. But in the end, it doesn't really matter, since we don't have much to go on. While BSG generally follows established military examples (and other airforces are structured along similar lines), there is as you said "Fighter Squadron 10" and in absence of other indications, that's the best to go with. I added a footnote about it though. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 21:01, 15 September 2007 (CDT)

== Article name ==

Shouldn't this be called Battlestar Squadrons? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 07:23, 21 January 2007 (CST)
:Maybe, maybe not. We don't really know anything about the ''Pegasus'' squadrons (except maybe if there are some insignia in "Pegasus" and LDYB). The only argument for me is that Primus and Vigilantes probably weren't stationed on ''Galactica'' all the time, but since they were that makes them ''Galactica'' squadrons again...
:But if it's renamed, I'm for "Colonial Fleet squadrons". --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:36, 21 January 2007 (CST)
::Just like we dont know if Primus or Vigilantes are actually galactica squadrons... --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 08:14, 21 January 2007 (CST)
:::Primus might have been at one time, but the Vigilantes are definitely active, since lots of pilots have its patch on their suits --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:45, 21 January 2007 (CST)
:No. We're aware of several squadrons on ''Pegasus'', including [[Red Squadron (RDM)]], [[Yellow Squadron]], [[Green Squadron]] and [[Blue Squadron (RDM)]], which should be treated separately (if necessary - there's probably never going to be enough material for a parallel article). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 10:43, 21 January 2007 (CST)
:::Adama was (probably) assigned to Primus while on the [[Atlantia]].  It's also very likely that squads while in combat represent a completely different organizational grouping from that which this article referrs to, with the fleetwide "squadrons" more like an "air wing".  Are Primus and Vigilantes ever explicitly referred to as "squadrons"?
::This article here is about standing squadrons with names and patches. The following has been mentioned, although not discussed, on the talk pages of those squadron articles, and mentioned both here and in the ''Pegasus'' article. Those color coded squadrons are probably just radio designations for missions, with pilots and planes drawn from the standing squadrons as needed. Personally I agree with that, as it's the simplest explination for why they use both simple color-names and more complex names for squadrons. Or why Starbuck assigns Showboat as squadron leader on the fly (I think it was Showboat at least). Plus it's something done in real-world air forces. But as you said there is not enough information to warrant an own article, so it can stay in the ''Pegasus'' article. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:48, 21 January 2007 (CST)

== Other squadrons, patch pictures ==

So does anyone have some pictures of those other squadron patches/logos mentioned [[User talk:Steelviper#Galactica Squadrons|here]]? They are supposed to be in "Act of Contrition". That was the main reason for consolidating all the squadron info on one page. 

If not, I could get my DVDs and try to take some screencaps, but Talos said that he made some and his are too blurry. Not sure if I'll have more luck --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:39, 25 January 2007 (CST)
:I just uploaded two pics I've had on my harddrive for awhile, they show the Demons and the VWS. I'm working on getting more, there are some others on my other pc. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 17:10, 25 January 2007 (CST)
::Ok :) Since we basically have no info about the other squadrons, maybe it's best to add those pictures in a gallery; maybe under a "other" header. Also [[Talk:Rapture#7th_squadron|here]] someone says that he saw a "7th squadron" patch behind Helo in "Rapture" --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:18, 25 January 2007 (CST)
:::I've seen squadron numbers up to eight in the ready room. And I had the same idea you did with the gallery. Thanks for fixing the Vigiliant''ies'' and the dash in the 2nd FS, I was late for something and hurrying. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 21:25, 25 January 2007 (CST)
:I've added some other squadrons to the list. Now that I have the VLC player Talos recommended, I will work on getting screen grabs of these other logos. [[User:AnteaterFeeder|AnteaterFeeder]] 20:31, 13 February 2007 (CST)

There is an emblem of 8th squadron in "[[Hero]]". Towards the end when Adama, Tigh and Novacek fight. But I can't see what name it has. That would be something for HD. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:32, 9 June 2007 (CDT)

== Wing vs Group Reference ==

While that assertion holds true for the Navy and Air Force the Marine's aviation is different in organization and there may be either a mix of these, or not at all in BSG. The US Marines have 4 Air Wings. Each one is based in a major area (west coast (3rd MAW), east coast (2nd MAW), Japan (1st MAW), and the marine reserves (4th MAW) ) and is further divided into Groups. For instance MCAS Miramar is home to Marine Air Group (MAG) 11 and 16 and used to host VMFA-134 a reserve squadron from the 4th MAW. MAG-11 hosts the 6 Hornet and one KC-130 squadrons on base. I say host, because they are the "home" to these squadrons, common practice in the Navy and Marine Corps is if a squadron is transferred to another command it is integrated into that command. (If VMFA-232 from MAG-11 went to the USS Kitty Hawk then it would break off from MAG-11 and would be underneath Carrier Air Wing-7.) IT is possible for the Navy to adopt this practice but not necessary and extremely rare. The Marines require the flexibility to be able to deploy anywhere as needed. I would like to think that in BSG this would be somewhat of a case assuming that transfers seem to occur care free between battlestars. 

Also in terms of squadron names it seems hardly doubtful that the Galactica holds the 1-10th squadrons of the entire Fleet. Thats a pretty low numbering system and the military likes to get complicated. The only evidence to support that claim is Galactica's age. Which would indicate Pegasus had different numbered squadron. There is the possibility that they are the 1-10th squadrons of Galactica. While the Pegasus would have carried her own 1-10th squadrons with their own nicknames and such. Obviously we haven't seen anything to say otherwise though.
@@ Line 16: / Line 16: @@
 ::Just like we dont know if Primus or Vigilantes are actually galactica squadrons... --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 08:14, 21 January 2007 (CST)
 :::Primus might have been at one time, but the Vigilantes are definitely active, since lots of pilots have its patch on their suits --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:45, 21 January 2007 (CST)
-:No. We're aware of several squadrons on ''Pegasus'', including [[Red Squadron (RDM)]], [[Yellow Squadron]], [[Green Squadron (RDM)|Green Squadron]] and [[Blue Squadron (RDM)]], which should be treated separately (if necessary - there's probably never going to be enough material for a parallel article). --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 10:43, 21 January 2007 (CST)
+:No. We're aware of several squadrons on ''Pegasus'', including [[Red Squadron (RDM)]], [[Yellow Squadron]], [[Green Squadron]] and [[Blue Squadron (RDM)]], which should be treated separately (if necessary - there's probably never going to be enough material for a parallel article). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 10:43, 21 January 2007 (CST)
 :::Adama was (probably) assigned to Primus while on the [[Atlantia]].  It's also very likely that squads while in combat represent a completely different organizational grouping from that which this article referrs to, with the fleetwide "squadrons" more like an "air wing".  Are Primus and Vigilantes ever explicitly referred to as "squadrons"?
 ::This article here is about standing squadrons with names and patches. The following has been mentioned, although not discussed, on the talk pages of those squadron articles, and mentioned both here and in the ''Pegasus'' article. Those color coded squadrons are probably just radio designations for missions, with pilots and planes drawn from the standing squadrons as needed. Personally I agree with that, as it's the simplest explination for why they use both simple color-names and more complex names for squadrons. Or why Starbuck assigns Showboat as squadron leader on the fly (I think it was Showboat at least). Plus it's something done in real-world air forces. But as you said there is not enough information to warrant an own article, so it can stay in the ''Pegasus'' article. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:48, 21 January 2007 (CST)
@@ Line 34: / Line 34: @@
 == Wing vs Group Reference ==
-While that assertion holds true for the Navy and Air Force the Marine's aviation is different in organization and there may be either a mix of these, or not at all in BSG. The US Marines have 4 Air Wings. Each one is based in a major area (west coast (3rd MAW), east coast (2nd MAW), Japan (1st MAW), and the marine reserves (4th MAW) ) and is further divided into Groups. For instance MCAS Miramar is home to Marine Air Group (MAG) 11 and 16 and used to host VMFA-134 a reserve squadron from the 4th MAW. MAG-11 hosts the 6 Hornet and one KC-130 squadrons on base. I say host, because they are the "home" to these squadrons, common practice in the Navy and Marine Corps is if a squadron is transferred to another command it is integrated into that command. (If VMFA-232 from MAG-11 went to the USS Kitty Hawk then it would break off from MAG-11 and would be underneath Carrier Air Wing-7.) IT is possible for the Navy to adopt this practice but not necessary and extremely rare. The Marines require the flexibility to be able to deploy anywhere as needed. I would like to think that in BSG this would be somewhat of a case assuming that transfers seem to occur care free between battlestars. --[[User:Kbeir|Kbeir]] 23:58, 6 October 2007 (CDT)
+While that assertion holds true for the Navy and Air Force the Marine's aviation is different in organization and there may be either a mix of these, or not at all in BSG. The US Marines have 4 Air Wings. Each one is based in a major area (west coast (3rd MAW), east coast (2nd MAW), Japan (1st MAW), and the marine reserves (4th MAW) ) and is further divided into Groups. For instance MCAS Miramar is home to Marine Air Group (MAG) 11 and 16 and used to host VMFA-134 a reserve squadron from the 4th MAW. MAG-11 hosts the 6 Hornet and one KC-130 squadrons on base. I say host, because they are the "home" to these squadrons, common practice in the Navy and Marine Corps is if a squadron is transferred to another command it is integrated into that command. (If VMFA-232 from MAG-11 went to the USS Kitty Hawk then it would break off from MAG-11 and would be underneath Carrier Air Wing-7.) IT is possible for the Navy to adopt this practice but not necessary and extremely rare. The Marines require the flexibility to be able to deploy anywhere as needed. I would like to think that in BSG this would be somewhat of a case assuming that transfers seem to occur care free between battlestars.
-Also in terms of squadron names it seems hardly doubtful that the Galactica holds the 1-10th squadrons of the entire Fleet. Thats a pretty low numbering system and the military likes to get complicated. The only evidence to support that claim is Galactica's age. Which would indicate Pegasus had different numbered squadron. There is the possibility that they are the 1-10th squadrons of Galactica. While the Pegasus would have carried her own 1-10th squadrons with their own nicknames and such. Obviously we haven't seen anything to say otherwise though. --[[User:Kbeir|Kbeir]] 23:58, 6 October 2007 (CDT)
+Also in terms of squadron names it seems hardly doubtful that the Galactica holds the 1-10th squadrons of the entire Fleet. Thats a pretty low numbering system and the military likes to get complicated. The only evidence to support that claim is Galactica's age. Which would indicate Pegasus had different numbered squadron. There is the possibility that they are the 1-10th squadrons of Galactica. While the Pegasus would have carried her own 1-10th squadrons with their own nicknames and such. Obviously we haven't seen anything to say otherwise though.
-:True, but the only part where that's implied is the Primus section I think. I changed to "''Galactica's'' first Viper squadron".
-:It's possible that all these squadrons once served on ''Galactica'' at the same time, or that they served there separately over the years. What we do know however, is that there was only one active squadron at the time of the decommissioning and that's likely the Vigilantes, as they still have those patches on the flight suits.  That the Vigilantes still exist seems to imply that the names are kept on ''Galactica'' even if its members are assigned elsewhere, but I don't know if we should generalize that. The part about reassignment in the "known squadrons" section can be interpreted both ways; that Primus was just disbanded at some point, or was stationed elsewhere as whole.
-:We just don't have much to go on and while we could write more, it's just speculation. Maybe it's better to just give a rough framework and let people fill in the blanks for themselves. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:41, 7 October 2007 (CDT)
-::This has been something that I've wondered about for sometime. It is highly unlikely that all sequential fighter (and Raptor) squadrons served on Galactica at once. We know that the Vigilantes was the remaining active squadron, since the CAG in the Miniseries, Starbuck, and others all wear that patch. Likewise, Raptor Squadron 10 is active, since Helo and the other Raptor pilots and ECOs wear that patch on their shoulder. Now a problem is Skulls and Racetrack, who where both the Vigilanties and Raptors squadron patches.
-::A possibility I've been thinking about is that these squadrons are the numbered squadrons of Galactica's air group. The Raptors might be assigned to ships in detachments, instead of whole squadrons. I'll have to check out what patch Crashdown wears way back in 33 since he is a Raptor ECO from another ship, Triton. Of course, this is all speculation since we have almost nothing to go by except for uniform patches and logos. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:44, 7 October 2007 (CDT)
-:::That thought occurred to me as well. Maybe in a possibility they are their own "squadron" for collective organization and "Raptor Pride" and are parceled out to the Viper squadrons to meet mission needs? Kinda how the VAQ/VMAQ squadrons on a carrier are their own group but the EA-6 Prowlers (electronic warfare planes) are attached to the fighter squadrons as support during missions. Just a thought. All speculation naturally seeing how they borrowed things hard from the Navy. My dad said their Damage Control from the mini-series actually sounded like stuff he'd say when he ran the Damage Control room so someone did a little research. --[[User:Kbeir|Kbeir]] 18:05, 7 October 2007 (CDT)
-::::[[Bradley Thompson]] and [[David Weddle]] are hardcore military buffs, so you can rest assured on some research on the military angle. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 22:17, 7 October 2007 (CDT)