Editing Talk:Sometimes a Great Notion/Archive 1

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== Half-Season ==

Are we sure that Sometimes a Great Notion will be aired before the midseason break? I've seen the first half-season referred to as consisting of ten episodes. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:58, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
: It's not on the SFC schedule, so I've removed it. Someone must've been overzealous in their addition of the airdates. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 03:35, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

== Writers ==

In the podcast for Revelations, RDM states that David Weddle and Bradley Thompson will be writing this episode. I though I should bring it up here rather than add it to the article as I'm a relatively new member here, and am still unfamiliar with the editing process.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 23:51, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
: That's all right, Pentagonal. Feel free to [[BW:BOLD|be bold]] take it upon yourself to add it, as long as it's [[BW:CJ|cited]]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 04:27, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
::Thanks for the encouragement, but it wasn't so much that I was apprehensive to edit the page, but more that i'm not quite sure how. I really haven't taken the time to learn how to use the editing software, (which is something I'm planning on doing shortly) so i thought it best to bring it up here and have someone willing and able add it.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 19:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
:::I added it. You can see the difference [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Sometimes_a_Great_Notion&diff=165728&oldid=164802 here]. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:08, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
::::Many thanks.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 19:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Episode Title ==

''The title of the episode comes from the blues song "Goodnight, Irene," in which the singer contemplates suicide: "Sometimes I get a great notion / to jump in the river and drown."'' Is this a fact? There's no citation. It's also the title of a song by John Mellencamp. [[User:Genji2000|Genji2000]] 17:58, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
:And, though I don't know if it has to do with anything, the first line of the Mellencamp song, "Never give an inch," is a reference to ''Sometimes a Great Notion'', a novel by Ken Kesey. [[User:Capedia|Capedia]] 07:03, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
::The episode title is a reference to Ken Kesey's novel -- [[User:Hufnmouth|Hufnmouth]] 22:22, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== Buried Centurion Head ==
 
Was it just me, or did that uncovered centurion head found in the anthropological dig look like the centurion pictured here:http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:DeSanto_Singer_Project_Cylon.jpg ?  -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 08:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:Nope, that wasn't the head:Flatter face and no forehead ridge.[[User:Hufnmouth|Hufnmouth]]
::It wasn't identical, but was still pretty similar. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 21:51, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

==Guest stars==

As an avid credit watcher I thought I'd point out that as of the very beginning of season 4 Michael Hogan, Aaron Douglas, Tahmoh Penikett, Michael Trucco, Alessandro Juliani and Kandyse McClure have all been credited as starring cast members. I've removed them from the guest star section for this episode accordingly.--[[User:Opark 77|Opark 77]] 11:02, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:Just need a second verification and we should edit [[Season 4 (2008)]] as well. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 13:21, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
::Uh, if you're an avid credit watcher, as you say, then you should know that those name (give or takes a few) have been like that since "33". And it's not just this show that has this sort of thing. Nor, is it a recent trend; I can date the post star/pre-guest star credit thing back to a show from 1989 and few since. That's always been a thorn in trying to figure that out. I will say that if they're stars, then they're names wouldn't come and go based on an episode-by-episode basis like that seeing as how all the ones in the main credits remain regardless (with the exception of Katee's, but that was only to sell the whole "Kara is dead" thing). Until someone can convince me otherwise, I say they're co-stars, who just get upfront credits for some sort of contractual reason. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 17:04, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
:::As I understand it, '''Mars''', it's really nothing more than a monetary issue. The main cast, whose names are credited every week during the main opening credits sequence, are paid regardless of whether or not they actually shoot any scenes for the episode. A recurring or supporting character would not be credited if they weren't used in a particular episode, so they wouldn't have to be paid, but they would be credited before guest characters. A good example of this outside of BSG would be Teryl Rothery ("Dr. Fraiser") on Stargate SG-1. --[[User:Antarctic Fox|Antarctic Fox]] 17:47, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== Resurrection and the split of the 13th Tribe ==

The dialogue in this episode about the "Final Five"'s previous lives on Earth reminded me of what Virtual said to Baltar n [[Fragged]], about how anyone who was killed on Kobol was dead forever. At the time, it seemed like a throwaway bit of Virtual Six's usual religious zealotry, but after Ellen Tigh's remark in Tigh's vision/flashback about everything being "in place" for their rebirth after the holocaust, I'm no longer so sure. 

So, here's a bit of speculation. We know from the advance buzz on ''[[Caprica (series)|Caprica]]'' that the origins of the Colonies' Cylons had to do with [[Daniel Graystone]]'s efforts to resurrect his daughter in an artificial body -- something that presumably would become a very, very controversial idea if applied on a large scale. Maybe that kind of controversy had something to do with the original departure of the Thirteenth Tribe from Kobol. Perhaps their resurrection system was outlawed on Kobol, leading to their exodus. The existence of the ancient probe in [[Torn]] supports the idea that resurrection technology may well have existed thousands of years ago; that episode really made the virus seem like a biological weapon, and the fact that it infected Cylons through the resurrection process may not have been accidental. Was it created to prevent the Thirteenth Tribe from ''leaving'' Earth to return to Kobol? (In that case, maybe what Ellen meant when she said "Everything is in place" was that some of the Thirteenth Tribe had figured out a way to circumvent the various defenses/mechanisms preventing them from rejoining the Twelve. {{unsigned|Argentla}}
:Hi Argentia. More people will hear about your thoughts in a place better built for it, so why not take your thoughts to [http://www.battlestarforum.com/showthread.php?t=2307 the Battlestar Forum episode thread?] (That way, the talk page is left free for questions about the formatting or proper interpretation of what should be in this article itself.) Lots of people are there to talk about it! --22:19, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== Cylon Homeworld ==

The revelations of this episode also raise another provocative question: IS there a Cylon homeworld (other than Earth, thousands of years ago)? At one point, RDM mentioned that we would probably never seen the Cylon homeworld, because he felt it would be creatively problematic, but now I wonder if it exists at all. The Colonials have always assumed there was one, somewhere behind the Armistice Line, but my recollection is that all the dialogue referring to it comes from human characters (Baltar, Gaeta, Kara). In [[Downloaded]], both Six and Boomer are resurrected on Caprica, not elsewhere. 

After the Armistice, did the Cylons just wander in space the same way the Fleet is, occasionally taking resources from the planets they encountered (just as ''Galactica'' has), but not actually settling anywhere specific? Maybe their original motivation in attacking the Colonies -- the original Plan alluded to in the early seasons' credits -- was ''Lebensraum'', claiming the territory of the Colonies for their own expansion. (That would explain why they were going to so much trouble to clean up Caprica (and presumably the other Colonies, even if we never see it for budgetary reasons) even after nuking it.)

Has any Cylon character explicitly confirmed the existence of a Cylon homeworld? Three's comments in this episode about wandering in space make it seem like she doesn't have a home to return to; Cavill's belligerence might make it impossible for her to return to the Cylon homeworld if there were one, but if that were the case, wouldn't she say so?
@@ Line 23: / Line 23: @@
 Was it just me, or did that uncovered centurion head found in the anthropological dig look like the centurion pictured here:http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:DeSanto_Singer_Project_Cylon.jpg ?  -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 08:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
-:Nope, that wasn't the head:Flatter face and no forehead ridge. -- [[User:Hufnmouth|Hufnmouth]] 22:23, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
+:Nope, that wasn't the head:Flatter face and no forehead ridge.[[User:Hufnmouth|Hufnmouth]]
 ::It wasn't identical, but was still pretty similar. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 21:51, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
-:::Yes it is similar but the Eight in Baltar's lab made it clear that while similar, it is not one of their designs. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 03:25, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 ==Guest stars==
@@ Line 41: / Line 40: @@
 :Hi Argentia. More people will hear about your thoughts in a place better built for it, so why not take your thoughts to [http://www.battlestarforum.com/showthread.php?t=2307 the Battlestar Forum episode thread?] (That way, the talk page is left free for questions about the formatting or proper interpretation of what should be in this article itself.) Lots of people are there to talk about it! --22:19, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
+== Cylon Homeworld ==
+The revelations of this episode also raise another provocative question: IS there a Cylon homeworld (other than Earth, thousands of years ago)? At one point, RDM mentioned that we would probably never seen the Cylon homeworld, because he felt it would be creatively problematic, but now I wonder if it exists at all. The Colonials have always assumed there was one, somewhere behind the Armistice Line, but my recollection is that all the dialogue referring to it comes from human characters (Baltar, Gaeta, Kara). In [[Downloaded]], both Six and Boomer are resurrected on Caprica, not elsewhere.
-==Ron Moore's Commentary==
+After the Armistice, did the Cylons just wander in space the same way the Fleet is, occasionally taking resources from the planets they encountered (just as ''Galactica'' has), but not actually settling anywhere specific? Maybe their original motivation in attacking the Colonies -- the original Plan alluded to in the early seasons' credits -- was ''Lebensraum'', claiming the territory of the Colonies for their own expansion. (That would explain why they were going to so much trouble to clean up Caprica (and presumably the other Colonies, even if we never see it for budgetary reasons) even after nuking it.)
-Ron's commentary accompanying SAGN  is up on Hulu. He reveals a lot of the driving forces of the story - both in the mythology and in real-life. He also adds some commentary on the episodes framing which adds to the ugliness of the episode. Lastly, it appears Ron is partaking of some interesting "stuff" during the commentary. -- [[User:Hufnmouth|Hufnmouth]] 22:37, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
-== Writer's Strike Ending ==
+Has any Cylon character explicitly confirmed the existence of a Cylon homeworld? Three's comments in this episode about wandering in space make it seem like she doesn't have a home to return to; Cavill's belligerence might make it impossible for her to return to the Cylon homeworld if there were one, but if that were the case, wouldn't she say so?
-The little factoid that this episode could have served as series finale does not seem to be accurate, based on several other interviews with the cast and crew.  Everyone else has referred to the midseason cliffhanger (Revelations) as being the last episode shot before the break, and the one that would make ''considerably'' more sense as a finale than this one.  Can we correct what appears to be a numbering miscalculation?  One such source:  http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/tvguide/396369_tvgif16.html. --[[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 00:02, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
-:That does appear to be just a numbering SNAFU, as I too understood that Revelations was the last episode shot and it does make a lot more sense. I'd say swap it and source it. If there's disagreement, we can have a "source war" in the talk pages, but I'm guessing that the newsfeed referenced on the page is the only one pointing to this as the finale, and it's not even really a direct quote.  --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 00:13, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
-:: RDM also mentioned in the podcast and the article referenced at [8] that this was the last episode shot before the strike. -- [[User:Raziel Anarki|Raziel Anarki]] 19:44, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
-:::Right you are. It's right there in that article. I have listened to the podcast yet, as I generally only listen to them as I'm transcribing them, and I've been on a hiatus of transcription. I was kinda hoping people would verify some of my existing transcripts before I came back, but that may never happen. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 23:31, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
-== Location of Tigh's Flashback ==
-i dont think that this is an apartment building as it is stated in the article. im pretty sure it is a bank and that they are safety deposit boxes and not mailboxes. my first reason is that saul looks professional, like he is at a place of work and not at home. second that the sounds make it sound like much more of a public place and with the glass it looks like offices. and third, there is money falling through the air in the scene in front of the safety deposit boxes. [[User:Bubx2700|Bubx2700]] 02:13, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
-:I thought it was a safety deposit box as well (which would lend well towards long term storage, if that's applicable. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:10, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
-:They are mailboxes. Safety deposit boxes a) typically have two keyholes: one for the box owner and one for the banker; and b) are secured inside a vault, not in a room with glass windows and door. --[[User:Monupics|Monupics]] 03:28, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
-== Mooching transcription services ==
-Not to be a pest, but anytime people are documenting what RDM says in an episode podcast, if they could go ahead and transcribe that snippet (you know, word for word) in the episode podcast... or heck, anywhere on here, it'd save me (or whoever ends up doing the podcast) a little trouble later. You/they wouldn't have to get all the formal structure in place... just the words would help. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 21:24, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
-== Opening Act Nomenclature ==
-RDM still refers to the opening act of this story as "the tease". Should we switch the act titles back accordingly? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 21:35, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
-== Previous and Next ==
-The Previous and Next episodes are messed up. Previous should be 'Face of the Enemy' and Next should be 'A Disquiet Follows My Soul'. [[User:Genji2000|Genji2000]] 07:27, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
-:[[The Face of the Enemy]] was released before "[[Sometimes a Great Notion]]" for promotional reasons, but it takes place between "Sometimes" and "Disquiet" and the episodes make the most sense when viewed in that order. Air date is usually the best way to go, but in this case I'm leaning towards internal chronology, especially given that all three were aired pretty close to one another.
-:As for Razor, I think that while it takes place during season 2, it makes more sense positioned where it is now, given the "Harbinger of Death" reveal at the end, it would be too much of a spoiler back in season 2, and it assumes knowledge of the Cylon Hybrids when introducing the First Hybrid. Also, moving it by more than one season in the chronology section is more of a big deal than moving the webisodes one episode away.
-:Also, Razor is a kind of flashback, since it shows past events in a new light, while "Face of the Enemy" viewed before "Sometimes" is actually a flashforward, showing events that happen a few days later. Before I knew that it's actually set after "Sometimes", it was a bit confusing to me. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 11:06, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
-== 13 colonies mythos ==
-In the scene where Admiral Adama address the fleet - basically telling them he's going to keep looking for a place to live - he says "the thirteen tribes of kobol stood exactly on the same spot".
--this could be argued to be metaphorical I guess, but '''all''' the 13 tribes were never on Earth, just the thirteenth, right?
-[[User:Artemis|Artemis]] 21:18, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
-: He's speaking metaphorically, as all the tribes had to find a new place to live and therefore faced the same predicament of finding a new home, like the Fleet had to upon finding the scorched Earth #1. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 21:37, 6 October 2009 (UTC)