Editing Talk:Sine Qua Non/Archive 1

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== No promo pics ==

As far as I can tell, no promo pics for this episode were released?? -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 20:37, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
: I suspect that there's a reason for this... and it may relate {{spoilli|to Mary McDonnell}}.  -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 02:56, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

== Promo spoilers ==

{{spoilli|Romo Lampkin appears towards the end of the trailer; could this be the returning "favourite character"?}} (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dbjPNG_9Xo) --[[User:Kosh|Kosh]] 04:06, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

== Lock? ==

Considering on this side of the Atlantic we get the episode 3 days before the US does, what is the procedure going to be for locking this article (and the rest of 4.0)? [[User:OTW|OTW]] 21:12, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
:Lock it a day before the UK airing I guess. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 21:13, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
::And keep it locked for 4 days? That would be a very long time to have an article locked. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 22:41, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Mhh, yeah, that is a problem. We could unlock it until the US airing and then lock it again. So there are 2-3 days to edit it. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 22:47, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I feel that it'll be determined on a case-by-case basis... If the article is sufficiently developed by Friday, we may just leave it unlocked and see how the server copes. If not, then we lock on Friday and Saturday (till noon-ish). Sound good? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 20:02, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
: I don't see any real need to lock this article on Friday, since it's pretty fleshed out. If it becomes a performance issue, then, we'll lock it. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 05:15, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

== Surviour Count ==

How are we qualifiying the count as going up?

Caprica Six has an unborn baby, which is obviously debatable in terms of counting as a surviour because the baby's parents are both Cylons and it isn't even born, but I digress as that isn't my point.

Either way, a Raptor poliot has been ''confirmed'' dead and a Viper pilot has been persumed dead, which at worst cancels the unborn baby in terms of surviours.
--[[User:Syferus|Syferus]] 19:33, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
:Children are born within the Fleet. There are a couple of cases where the count just goes up or deaths are offset. In fact it probably doesn't happen often enough. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 19:48, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
::"In universe" the teaser ends only a few hours after [[Guess What's Coming to Dinner?]] does, so its likely that the "battle of the resurrection hub" hadn't concluded by that point. It's interesting to note they didn't subtract all the abductees though. My guess is that the [[The Hub]] will be chronologically concurrent with Sine Qua Non, making our survivor count next week a little confusing. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 12:45, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

== Lance the Cat is not dead ==

When Romo discovers Lee Adama is the only candidate for the President he is talking to his cat, Lance.  He leaves to go confront Lee and he says to the cat, "Lance, defense rests. Come on." In the next scene he claiming Lance was dead for weeks. 

If this is true it fits Romo's pattern of manipulation.  He used the same pattern during the trial of Balter (the use of the cane).  The best explanation is that Romo is using the cat to manipulate Lee.

: The cat is dead, Jim. Lee sees the body of it in the duffel bag. Also, there are several indicators to all of this in the episode; the fact that no one else but Romo sees the pet, Lee almost tripping over an overturned, empty dish... not to mention Lampkin's general depression and ennui. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 03:43, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
: This confused me too, but go back and look at those scenes. One of the first scenes, the cat is sitting next to Romo on the bed, and it when it cuts away from Romo the cat is gone. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 11:18, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

== Fundamental difference? ==
There is another possible explanation for Caprica-Six's pregnancy, maybe the [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThePowerOfLove love theory] is correct, perhaps Cylon have some sort of biological failsafe to prevent them from breeding in the wrong circumstances. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 02:57, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

: Considering that this episode takes place during the time frame when the Cylons are out of resurrection range, there are two other possibilities.  One, that the ability to resurrect is the cause of their inability to reproduce, and when Cylons are out of range (which they rarely choose to be), they can successfully reproduce biologically.  Another, more basic explanation is that the Final Five were somehow intentionally separated from the seven because one from each group is necessary to reproduce, and whatever caused them to split and not speak of the Final Five did this intentionally.  [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 00:18, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
== Incorrect quote ==
In re "Lampkin: Quandary is, one doesn't generally get the chance to wield political power without the ambition to actively seek it. That same ambition often compromises the unselfish motives that began the quest. In other words, in a battle of it versus ego, that ego rarely wins."

I'm pretty sure it was "ID versus ego."  That's how I heard it and it makes alot more sense. Lampkin was talking about repressed desiers ( ID ) beating out our unselfish motives (ego). I didn't record the show, however, so someone who can check may want to edit this. {{unsigned|Glaucon}}

: Agreed. It's "id vs. ego". -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 05:14, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

== If / when ==

''"What exactly happened to the rebel baseship and the [[Resurrection Hub]]? Did the rebels and Colonials escape '''when/if''' their baseship was destroyed?"''

Seems its difficult to decide if it is conclusive that the rebel basestar was destroyed or not. IMO I'd go for "if", because although it looks likely, it's not certain (Adama still has hope for one). They'd probably have to have destroyed one of Cavil's basestars if they were to eliminate the Hub. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 17:02, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah, now that you say it, that seems to be correct. Sorry. To me it initially seemed like the basestar is destroyed for sure. Which is what Tigh thinks. But Adama believes that they survived. So there is some uncertainty. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:32, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

== More breaks than acts? ==

Is it my imagination, or did SkyOne throw in more commercial breaks than there are acts in this episode? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 17:35, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
:It was hard for me to follow, particularly since the central Indiana area was dodging severe thunderstorms and tornadoes during the first broadcast, which interrupted my cable recordings and totally munged up my DVR. Ssssss... --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:43, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
: Well, I'll see if I can't catch a repeat, unless someone beats me to it. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 20:49, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

== Boomer/Athena's song (hum?) ==

Just wanted to let you guys know that the song Boomer/Athena both hum is a traditional Korean children's song. The title would roughly translate to "The Stream Deep in the Forest." I guess Grace Park picked the song, since she's Korean.
[[User:Icenerve|Icenerve]] 17:48, 30 May 2008 (UTC)icenerve
:As noted at [[Flesh and Bone#Notes]] (at the very end), though the title is given a bit different there. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:52, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

== Where Romo confronted Lee ==

The article assumes that Romo held Lee at gunpoint in Colonial One. While it was clearly the Colonial One set, the way it was lit, shot, and the added industrial details made it seem to me that it was a redress that was supposed to be Romo's ship. -- [[User:David cgc|David cgc]] 16:11, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
:Could be either. Lampkin is alone and then goes off to see Adama. But then he runs into Adama in the hallway. That could either mean that Adama simultaneously goes to see Lampkin (the reason for which isn't explained), or that the two run into each other on ''Colonial One''. It's not like the ship is all plush and luxury. There are cargo areas in the bowels of the ships for example. Anyways, I removed, since it's a bit unclear, but not vital information -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:24, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
::Guys, wow... It's ''Colonial One'', since Romo just came from deliberations with the Quorum, which meets on ''Colonial One''. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 16:33, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Erm, it doesn't say that he comes from a Quorum meeting. "We found our candidate. One the Quorum won't hesitate to approve". That doesn't sound like he actually talked to them yet. One might also say that he is just leaving his quarters and runs into Adama outside. I consider it be ''Colonial One'' as well, but I can see why people can be confused about it. But as said, it doesn't really matter. Or could Lampkin actually live somewhere on ''Colonial One''? Ah..I don't really care :p -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:04, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
:::: I suppose I can see where other people are coming from. Anyway, hopefully the podcast might clear that up, once one's released. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 18:19, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::My assumption (and it is only that) from Romo saying Laura gave him the room was that Romo's new room is on Colonial One. It's a big ship that does house some civilians on a permanent basis, and it kinda fits. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 19:17, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::That'd make sense. I'm sure the person or persons who had that room before him weren't too pleased to give up such a spacious piece of real estate. :P -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 20:48, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

== Battlestar leaving the fleet undefended ==

The wiki states:
<blockquote>
Despite the fact that Galactica has left the Fleet before to engage combat, this episode marks the first time that the civilian Fleet is intentionally left without any defense. The only other time the Fleet was left without military aid was after Boomer's assassination attempt of William Adama, when Galactica accidentally jumped to different coordinates than the rest of the Fleet (Scattered).</blockquote>
Actually the Pegasus left the (residual) fleet undefended during the Battle of New Caprica.  I added a note to this effect to the wiki, but someone edited it out. <small>—The preceding '''[[BW:SIGN|unsigned]]''' comment was added by [[User:Gmusser|Gmusser]] ([[User talk:Gmusser|talk]]&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Gmusser|contribs]]).</small>
:''Pegasus'' left its entire air wing behind to guard the residual fleet, hence the need for suicidal tactics at the Battle of New Caprica. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:42, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
::Exactly the reason why I removed it. At least I think it was me :) -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Ah, I see your point. Thanks for setting me straight. Why don't you flesh out this part of the discusson?--[[User:Gmusser|Gmusser]] 15:41, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

== Is Tigh definately the father? ==

Tigh and Adama assume that Tigh is the father, but is that necessarily so? --[[User:SSH|SSH]] 16:45, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
:I think we had this discussion before, but the server reset deleted it. Basically, all indications are yes. Caprica-Six has been in the holding cell for months (so was not pregnant before). Access to her was limited (consider Romo in [[Crossroads, Part I]]), and even fewer people would have had the authority to turn the cameras off. Although it's a common cliché in fiction for the father not to be who you think it is, such a revelation in this case would be a large, and rather unnecessary stretch IMO. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 17:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
@@ Line 44: / Line 44: @@
 : Considering that this episode takes place during the time frame when the Cylons are out of resurrection range, there are two other possibilities.  One, that the ability to resurrect is the cause of their inability to reproduce, and when Cylons are out of range (which they rarely choose to be), they can successfully reproduce biologically.  Another, more basic explanation is that the Final Five were somehow intentionally separated from the seven because one from each group is necessary to reproduce, and whatever caused them to split and not speak of the Final Five did this intentionally.  [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 00:18, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
-::It should be noted that when Helo impregnated Sharon Agathon, she was almost certainly in resurrection range. --~~
-:::True, but Helo is not a Cylon, as far as we know. -- [[User:Dharadvani|Dharadvani]] 07:19, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 == Incorrect quote ==
 In re "Lampkin: Quandary is, one doesn't generally get the chance to wield political power without the ambition to actively seek it. That same ambition often compromises the unselfish motives that began the quest. In other words, in a battle of it versus ego, that ego rarely wins."
@@ Line 88: / Line 86: @@
 Despite the fact that Galactica has left the Fleet before to engage combat, this episode marks the first time that the civilian Fleet is intentionally left without any defense. The only other time the Fleet was left without military aid was after Boomer's assassination attempt of William Adama, when Galactica accidentally jumped to different coordinates than the rest of the Fleet (Scattered).</blockquote>
 Actually the Pegasus left the (residual) fleet undefended during the Battle of New Caprica.  I added a note to this effect to the wiki, but someone edited it out. <small>—The preceding '''[[BW:SIGN|unsigned]]''' comment was added by [[User:Gmusser|Gmusser]] ([[User talk:Gmusser|talk]]&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Gmusser|contribs]]).</small>
-:''Pegasus'' left its entire air wing behind to guard the residual fleet, hence the need for suicidal tactics at the Battle of New Caprica. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 18:42, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
+:''Pegasus'' left its entire air wing behind to guard the residual fleet, hence the need for suicidal tactics at the Battle of New Caprica. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:42, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 ::Exactly the reason why I removed it. At least I think it was me :) -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 Ah, I see your point. Thanks for setting me straight. Why don't you flesh out this part of the discusson?--[[User:Gmusser|Gmusser]] 15:41, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
@@ Line 96: / Line 94: @@
 Tigh and Adama assume that Tigh is the father, but is that necessarily so? --[[User:SSH|SSH]] 16:45, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 :I think we had this discussion before, but the server reset deleted it. Basically, all indications are yes. Caprica-Six has been in the holding cell for months (so was not pregnant before). Access to her was limited (consider Romo in [[Crossroads, Part I]]), and even fewer people would have had the authority to turn the cameras off. Although it's a common cliché in fiction for the father not to be who you think it is, such a revelation in this case would be a large, and rather unnecessary stretch IMO. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 17:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
-== Missing Pilots.  ==
-This article states that the two missing pilots were most likely lost in a scene that was filmed but cut. I however, thought that Starbuck was referring to the two vipers shown when scouting Sector Delta 9. This would make sense, as the scene occurs after the discovery of Sandman's viper and the additional Mark II, and, while the fates of Galactica's other pilots aboard the Rebel Baseship are still unknown, the crew has tangible proof of two deceased or at least MIA pilots from this evidence. Thoughts? [[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 20:26, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
-:That doesn't really make sense with the dialogue in the scene:
-::Adama: Have the Raptors and the civilian ships begin the search from Phantom's last known position...Is that a problem?
-::Thrace: Sir, respectfully... I've already got two missing pilots and hardly enough birds left to protect this Fleet. Now you're asking me to send the remainder of the Raptors out on a blind search, looking for a ship that very well may have been destroyed.
-:First, Adama orders her to continue searching from the location of a specific pilot. He wouldn't say this if he were talking about the battle site. Second, they appear to be talking about a search party, which means Raptors. Third, the pilots on the rebel baseship are already missing; all of them. They appear to be talking about additional missing people, specifically about people directly under Thrace's command at that point. Sure, far from definite, but that's the most likely scenario IMHO. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:48, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
-:Perhaps, but it was my opinion that Phantom was code for the Rebel Baseship, not a specific pilot's callsign. The dialogue would support this, as Kara's point of contention is that Adama is asking her to risk additional pilots to search for a ship that very well may already be destroyed. Therefore, Adama is ordering Thrace to begin searching starting from their last known, most likely Sector Delta 9. Thrace is reluctant to comply, as the crew already has definite word of two pilots separated from their birds, and this would obviously be detrimental to moral, most likely more so than the other pilots aboard the baseship, whose fates are not yet certain. I don't see the search party connection from the dialogue quoted. Yes, they are talking about sending out the additional Raptors, however, there is nothing in the quote to suggest that it is another party that was lost. I can see how this issue is so vague, there were a lot of unexplained and ambiguous issues in the dialogue of SQN. Guess we'll have to wait for the season 4 DVD or the podcast to know for sure.[[User:Pentagonal Deception|Pentagonal Deception]] 19:06, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
-== Zarek's statement==
-Just how accurate is Zarek's statement that he's the only public official to have been voted in legally? While he did win an election as Baltar's running mate, he resigned the Presidency and was appointed Vice-President by Roslin, so technically he's not currently in office through an election. In addition, the "appointment-resignation-appointment" trick that created the current administration appears to have been completely legal, albeit highly unusual. If Zarek's statement is somewhat inaccurate, maybe it should be mentioned in the Analysis. [[User:Dallan007|Dallan007]] 06:48, 22 September 2008 (UTC)