Editing Talk:Sexuality in the Twelve Colonies (RDM)/Archive 1

== Bisexual vs. bi-sexual ==
You do have <code>hetero- and homosexual preferences</code> elsewhere, though. That's also the correct syntax in Dutch (dunno, about English). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 15:56, 4 December 2007 (CST)
: In the first sentence, "hetero-", "homo-" and "bi-" are all prefixes to the word "sexual", and thus should be written in that matter, since the hyphen is a "[http://www.editingandwritingservices.com/SuspendedHyphens.html suspended hyphen]". -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki &mdash; ''New'']</sup> 16:19, 4 December 2007 (CST)
::From my reading, the suspended hyphens rule only applies to words that would have the hyphen when used by themselves as well: <code>post-war</code> has a hyphen regardless of whether it's combined as <code>pre- and post-war</code>. The same is true for <code>thirty-year mortgages</code> and all other examples given at the link. <code>Bisexual</code>, <code>homosexual</code> and <code>heterosexual</code> are not hyphenated, though, so that's why I think it should be <code>hetero-, homo- and bisexual</code>. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 12:32, 5 December 2007 (CST)

Now, technically, the hyphen should be consistent throughout, but I didn't have time to copyedit this since the wiki's been running slow and I didn't care to lose my work. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki &mdash; ''New'']</sup> 16:19, 4 December 2007 (CST)

== POV real template breakage ==
The "Real point of view" message is positioned underneath the first sentence in my browser (Firefox 2). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 15:56, 4 December 2007 (CST)
:The template has been broken for a good while now. It's also showing at the place where it's added in the article, instead of a fixed position regardless of its place in the code (at least the last time I checked). I brought it up on its talk page once, but was told that it wasn't completed yet...which can't be entirely right. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:23, 4 December 2007 (CST)
:Try a hard refresh. It should be to the right of the title header now. ;-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki &mdash; ''New'']</sup> 16:42, 4 December 2007 (CST)

== Redirects ==

Maybe we should redirect "queer", etc, here and spoil Toton's next paper. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:10, 22 December 2007 (CST)
: Well, we have "queer" redirecting to the general Sexuality disambiguation, which is enough. People can figure out the rest from there. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki &mdash; ''New'']</sup> 13:14, 22 December 2007 (CST)
:You could redirect it to [[Felix Gaeta]] for laughs ;) --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:25, 22 December 2007 (CST)
:: Or let's not. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki &mdash; ''New'']</sup> 14:39, 22 December 2007 (CST)

== Threesome picture ==

If we could have a picture of the threesome aboard the Pornostar Baltaria, that would round out the article in terms of pictures. :) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 11:54, 4 February 2008 (CST)
:I could take a screenshot, but it would be from a low quality AVI rip. No one here seems to have the R2 DVDs. Does anyone have the episodes on iTunes perhaps? There are two promotional pictures. [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=200&pos=0 This] one only shows two however, and  [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=200&pos=3 this] one was cut.
:Also, if you watch the scene again, there isn't actually a shot showing all three of them in bed. It's mostly Three standing up and looking down at Baltar and Six. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:12, 4 February 2008 (CST)
:: Ah, I was under the impression that there was. (It has been a while since I've watched any S3 episodes, so I'm working from memory.) I figure a shot of her looking over them in bed would work...  -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 13:16, 4 February 2008 (CST)
:::Oh wait. I was looking at "The Passage" :/ Duh! But it's seen for the first time in "Hero". Sorry. I can get a pic from that. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:01, 4 February 2008 (CST)

Small note about the picture placement. It's not that important here, because there is only one picture, but I deliberately placed it above the header since that cuts down drastically on the empty space when using div clears. Otherwise, the pictures are just displayed too far down. I found that works very well on [[CIC]] and [[Computers in the Re-imagined Series]]. The pictures still clearly belong to their respective sections. It messes up section editing somewhat, but I feel that that is outweighed by the better looks. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:40, 4 February 2008 (CST)

: Ah, thanks for explaining that. :) I'm not too particularly concerned about it either, but I felt it looked better after the section header myself. If someone wants to change it back, that's fine. You'll have no objections from me. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 14:47, 4 February 2008 (CST)
::Nah, it's ok here. For me, it only becomes annoying when you have many pictures after another together with smaller sections of text. Though that might also have to do with using a widescreen monitor. It might actually look better in lower resolutions, since the text would be longer. Plus, here the next section is "notes", so some whitespace before it makes sense. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:53, 4 February 2008 (CST)

== Minor nitpick: "spending the night" ==

It's been a while since I've watched the episode in question, but does "night" and "day" have any meaning on a basestar? For all we know, they had their threesome during mid-afternoon. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 15:32, 4 February 2008 (CST)
:Technically you're right, but as a non-literal saying it still works IMO. However, they are clearly sleeping and Three wakes up from a nightmare. Of course they might sleep during the day and be up during the night (the ship would indeed probably have an artificial day/night cycle), but that doesn't matter that much here. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:38, 4 February 2008 (CST)
::Well on a battlestar, it's even worse as you'd have shifts: there's bound to be a whole group of people who get up at 1900 every day and go to bed around 1100 (and all kinds of variations in between, of course). So the "Good ''morning'', Lieutenant" thing in [[Water]] is kind of pointless too, since Boomer might very well have a reason to be up at 0545. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 15:46, 4 February 2008 (CST)

== Cylons ==

IMO the Cylons should get their own section due to cultural differences. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 05:46, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:You mean note their open attitude towards sexuality, and list human/human, human/Cylon, and Cylon/Cylon relationships separately? I'm all for it. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 12:40, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

== Proposal: Sexuality in the Twelve Colonies of Kobol ==

It's just an idea that popped to my mind. Both Michael Taylor and Jane Espenson (and Ronald D. Moore if I'm not mistaken) have stated that sexual diversity is something quite common within Colonial Civilization. Espenson even said that the Colonials wouldn't use the word "gay" (and thereby arguably "homosexual", "heterosexual", "bisexual" and the like) because same-sex relationships are nothing unusual or noteworthy within the twelve worlds. They are regarded on par with any other kind of relationship.

At the moment this article has a clearly Western/American point of view, differentiating several kinds of relationships. Maybe it could be more of an in-universe article that reflects the intentions of the show's creators? 

Anyway, I would definitely propose to clear out those lists of relationships and just mention one or two examples in each category. Also I would rather tone down statements like "no one is shocked by this" because they kinda sensationalize these relationships, IMO. 

What do you think? -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 12:05, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

: If you could write an article that is superior to this one, then by all means have at it... all I ask is that you create a draft first, because I feel that we do need to differentiate between the sexualities using the above terms (except for "gay" or other slang terms). This article honestly deserves to be treated from an "out-of universe" perspective, as doing it any other way weakens the ability of the article to convey the necessary information and any additional analysis. As for the relationship lists, I'm on the fence with those personally. Just list the most notable relationships and move on, particularly in the "heterosexual" column where there are, from the look of it anyway, 15 to 20 relationships listed.

: Also, I think it'll be a good idea to also rename this article with this new title: "Sexuality in the Twelve Colonies." -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 15:24, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

:: Okay, now '''[[User:Penumbra/Sexuality in the Twelve Colonies|here is a first draft]]'''. I think, I actually did manage to not use the terms "heterosexual" and so on within the in-universe description. Of course, they will be used in the Analysis section. Is that okay that way? -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 00:18, 1 February 2010 (UTC)



Did anyone have a look at my draft? I haven't worked on it further, cause I wanted to see whether others think that its going in the right direction. Of course the analysis section is still missing but I wouldn't want to work on that unless I'm sure that the overall changes to the article are supported. And of course everyone is welcome to join in. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 00:13, 25 February 2010 (UTC)


I know it's probably not the most pressing topic but I'd be really cool to get an "OK, go ahead" or "No, stop that sh*t" on my proposal. Of course, any other input is still very welcome. At least, I'd still root for renaming the article to "Sexuality in the Twelve Colonies". -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 10:41, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
:It looks like a good article you've written and the name thing definitely makes sense. Just minor spelling errors here and there and Cally didn't actually cheat ([[A Disquiet Follows My Soul#Official Statements]]), which is easily fixed. I agree that the current article imposes a more Western Terran framework with its categorization of relationships by sexual orientation. And "race" - we should note in the revised article that for Colonials, "interracial" means between two Colonies not two skin tones. Human/Cylon is most properly "interspecies". -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 01:57, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
:: Thanks for your reply! Of course the article still needs to be finished and cleaned-up (and likely abridged in some parts) but I didn't want to put work on it unless I could be sure that the new version is actually approved. But I already wrote that a month ago... ;)
:: Regarding "race": I'd say the word is a bit problematic in general. For my understanding, Cylon-Human relationships are actually "interracial", whereas relationships between Capricans and Taurons (or black and white for that matter) are not. One human race and so on. But I'd have no problem renaming the section "Interracial and Interspecies Relationships" for the sake of convenience. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 07:32, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
::: The article is shaping up quite nicely, and yeah, it's fine to use "heterosexual" and like terms in the analysis section. Also, I'm not sure if we should be using the term "race" to identify ethnicity; I'd not use the word at all, frankly. Ethnicity is a far better term. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 15:43, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
:::: Although the word "ethnic" is far more accurate in both Colony and skin color terms, we haven't heard any Colonials use it. I'm uncertain as to which would be better. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:17, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
@@ Line 69: / Line 69: @@
 ::: The article is shaping up quite nicely, and yeah, it's fine to use "heterosexual" and like terms in the analysis section. Also, I'm not sure if we should be using the term "race" to identify ethnicity; I'd not use the word at all, frankly. Ethnicity is a far better term. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 15:43, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 :::: Although the word "ethnic" is far more accurate in both Colony and skin color terms, we haven't heard any Colonials use it. I'm uncertain as to which would be better. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:17, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
-:::: On more thought, since people say "race" to mean ethnicity or species, it would be most precise to avoid the word in both cases. Even though they haven't used the word "ethnic", it's not exactly a huge stretch. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:31, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
-:By "join in", did you mean we could edit your draft? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:00, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
-:: If it's just minor things like spelling mistakes, sure. Otherwise I'd like to finish it up on my own first and then we can shape it up. I'm always open for suggestions, though. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 09:16, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
-::: Feel free to finish it up. I'll start by moving this article (as it currently stands, prior to your eventual revision) to the new name. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 02:45, 27 March 2010 (UTC)