Editing Talk:Religion in the Twelve Colonies (RDM)/Archive 1

== Lords of Kobol ==
Does the existance of the Mercury class Battlestars imply that Hermes/Mercury is a Lord of Kobol? --[[User:PrePressChris|PrePressChris]] 15:15, 18 October 2006 (CDT)+
:The writers of the show are dancing about in the usage of Greek and Roman mythological names. Since Hermes hasn't been mentioned specifically as a Lord, no, we can't add it. I'm not big on mixing the pantheons until the context of the names in the show are clear. We have a list of names (Greek, mostly) of names heard of ships or used as people, but until used in in the context as a Lord, we shouldn't assume that the name is actually that of a Lord. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:20, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
::That makes sense. It occured to me after I wrote the above that the name could refer to quicksilver, which would make sense if the Mercury class was faster than earlier ones. That would also tidy up the roman nomenclature. 
::Where is the list of names you mentioned? --[[User:PrePressChris|PrePressChris]] 15:30, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
:::See the section, "Other mythological names in Colonial culture," this article. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:28, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
::::LMAO. I was searching all over this site. It didn't occur to me that it'd be in the same article I was commenting on. --[[User:PrePressChris|PrePressChris]] 20:47, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

The article mentions that seven lords have been identified.  Anyone notice this is the same as the number of identified cylons?  It could be that each cylon model represents a lord (i.e. Sharon - Athena, Six (or maybe three) - Hera).  The 5 unidentified cylons match 5 unidentified lords match the 5 in the temple of five.  On a related note: how about the (norse) idea of an allfather - the Cylons recognize the allfather, but none of the lower "gods" (including the Lords of Kobol).  I suppose this would be an alternate theory to the Jealous God being the god of cylons. --[[User:Ublej|Ublej]] 17:29, 4 January 2007 (CST)
:The Colonials have Zeus as the boss of all other gods. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:32, 4 January 2007 (CST)

== More Cowbell ==
Actually, more images, please. Great text content, but a couple of more images applied evenly would really brighten things up. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:04, 8 December 2006 (CST)
:Ooh. And there are some XHTML problems. I'll get on those. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:25, 8 December 2006 (CST)

== Out-of-Universe Referencing and Revision ==

I get very confused with voice when reading this article, where we speak of the Colonials and compare it to real-world references. I wanted to keep these important notes in but not to the point where we had to discuss every detail or explanation. With that in mind, I got bold:

*The two articles that go overboard in discussing the Greek Gods and Greek Mythology are deleted, per Battlestar Wiki policy: We aren't a general encyclopedia, so Wikipedia links to more extensive articles should do for this. Both articles have been discussed of late as being redundant or just plain nongermane.

*This article's out-of-universe notes were moved as footnotes. This simplifies the read but keeps the voice of the article in discussing the Colonials, not the Colonials-vs.-Greek-vs.-Norse. Note that the terms "Greek", Norse, and the like are also removed or pulled; these don't exist in the series and it makes it confusing to make the comparison. The name of the gods usually explain it all but the important points are now footnotes.

I'm finding that reading articles that analyze the Colonials and Cylons take too much from the real-world to form their explanations when in-universe comments work well without overly drawn out comparisons. Comments? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:28, 12 January 2007 (CST)

:While I support the idea, I think it's possible to take it too far. If we take your approach to the extreme, it's impossible to have any real-world references in articles, which happens fairly often and is simply necessary in some cases. I think that this is more important:
:That the ''main'' voice of an article is "in-universe". Meaning no general real-world articles, but "in-universe" articles can contain a few real-world references if necessary.

:Case in point my new [[Mythological references]] page, which generally goes like "<ship/place name> - <significance in the show> <real world reference>". I didn't go out of my way to hide the Greek/Roman/Norse allusions in "in-universe" explinations, like saying that Greek mythology is really Colonial mythology in the context of the show (it probably is in fact, but that's more something for this article).

:However, in this article here, it's appropriate to only detail the religious stuff as it pertains to the Colonials, and not to the real world. So we could keep the "Mythological references" article seperate, delete the references here (which I copied anyways) and link to it from here, as a place that deals with mythology that goes beyond religion and also includes more real-life explinations and links. That would help to keep the POVs seperate --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:56, 13 January 2007 (CST)


==Concerning religion of the cylons and the colonies==
 
Keeping Ron Moore's twists and turns from the original series I would like to 
suggest that the Lords of Kobol and the "jealous" god, are for all intensive purposes the 
Cylons.  They are modeled after and  therefore more directly linked to the deities say than 
Adama is "being Zeus" among the humans. So much so that specific units have become avatars, perhaps posessed of a lord 
or at the very least evolving an actual soul in likeness of a lord. 

12 cylons = 12 olympians 
Final Five - Temple of Five 
 
The mystery of the final five hints to them being  something other 
that the existing models. Perhaps these five could not be replicated 
like the others because of their conflict with the cylon god. 
 
Clearly a more human "being" is developing in Deana in her search for 
enlightenment, in Caprica in her search for Love and in Sharon in her self acceptance. 
With Deanna the search for enlightenment became so overpweing 
the entire line was boxed.  With Sharon it's almost as if the  humanity 
Boomer clung to has moved to Agathon.  Boomer is not the woman that 
would not leave her human apartment after resurrecting, 
but both have in their own fashion esentially accepted who they are. 
Caprica appears in a constant state of conflict that many humans will relate to, 
while her etherial counterpart is the self assured herald of her cylon maker. 
 
For all the pagan references in the original series we still had Count Iblis 
and the ship of lights taking on very familliar christan concepts of angels 
and satan. Nothing is ever quite that black and white in the reimagined series. 
 
While the reference has been fleeting, the notion of a god outside the 
Lords of Kobol is clear, and he would be the cylons god.  Dodona Selloi seems to 
refer to the cylon god as nothing more or less than a lord of kobol. 
My thought is that somehow this jealous god has sort of ensnared the likeness 
perhaps even conciousness of the lords in creating the cylon race, so closely that single copies become avatars of the 
lords. The final five could be so possesed that they are not part of the cylon race, 
refusing the mechanations of the cylon god.  Others an avatar is what we see 
developing in Sharon, Deanna and Caprica. 
 
And even the cylon god, the Count Iblis whose voice was that of the imperious 
leader in the original series has a model: Brother Cavel.  Cavel is horribly wicked, he is always urging his 
fellow cylons to the most horrific of actions. He appears out of nowhwere all the time. And 
yet, strangely, he seems to honor the importance of free will in his dealings with his brother 
cylons, something you would expect of an Abrahamic god.  He's not Satan then who would rather rule in hell than serve in 
heaven, he is just far more satanic or evil than any characterization offered by a 
member of a known pantheon of gods. 
 
Yet another twist, If the Abrahmic god were competing with beings like himself 
(greek gods), how satanic might he appear? An abrahamic god accepts free will: I can't make you worship me. 
But is flawed like miltons Satan, if you don't worship me , your damned. 
Satan's flaw in paradise lost was saying better to rule in hell than serve in 
heaven.  What he should have said was better to live free on earth not rule in 
hell.  So Cavel is a marvelous blend of an Abrahamic God & Satan floating through 
space in a base ship with 7 of 12 would be Olympians.  Caprica/ Aphrodite, Sharon 
Athena and Deanna/Hestia(?).  Starbuck/Artemis is the next to come forward? 

Adama and Laura as Zeus and Hera? Two reason for two of the final five to stay 
where they are. They have human avatars leading the fleet. Three male cylons just go with the 
flow, well the male gods were always kind of boring anyway. At least if your a fan of 
Wonder Woman. 
 
The twist from original series to re-imagined series are always surprising and 
wonderful in many ways. In the world of Sci Fi televison, the original Galactica made huge 
advances by considering the existence of higher beings.  Where would the Ancients of 
Stargate or the Vorlons of Babylon be without Battlestar Galactica? Will we see actual communion with 
higher beings  in the re-imagined series? I don't expect to.  It would gnaw at the the gritty 
realism of the show.  
 
The idea of this entire exodus from the colonies seeking earth, unifying to a 
new Kobol, then breaking off back to earth and the colonies over and over seems entirely plausible.  Gods are at the very least real in a 
metaphoirical sense and 12 cylon models living in peace with a vast race of humans on new a Kobol in the end 
sounds far more believeable than actual gods and godesses co-existing with man.  (mevenstar)

:I think a more likely explanation is that whoever designed the humanoid cylons chose to use the lords as an inspiration or possibly the design was intended to mock the 12 lords and thus humanity itself. They chose 12 archetypes to define humanity saying basically all of you have one of these 12 personality types and that's it. I don't think the lords are using the cylons as avatars. Sounds too mystical. I also don't think time travel is involved and that somehow the cylons will one day go back into the past and become the lords.

:I don't really have a theory on exactly what the lords of kobol are but I do think the cylon god is a rogue lord of kobol. I also think the 13th tribe worshipped this rogue lord first. The 13th tribe left kobol because the other 12 pagan tribes were sacrifing humans and indulging in cannibalism. They first found the algae planet and built the temple of five which was dedicated to the five priests who worshipped the one whose name cannot be mentioned. This one whose name cannot be mentioned is almost certainly a rogue lord of kobol. If the priests were worshipping this one god this tells me the entire 13th tribe had the one god.

:Throughout the series we have seen the cylons talk about revelations from god and talk of his commandments. What is the source for this divine inspiration? I suspect the 12 colonies like we in the real world had scholars who studied ancient religions in the real world. They had reference books, academic papers, unearthed archeological artifacts and various other things that set out to paint a picture of what the 13th tribe was like. This information about the 13th tribe and their worship of the one god was known to the mechanical cylons before work on the humanoid models began and became the foundation of the cylon religion.  

:The cylons have (more or less) adopted the religion of the 13th tribe. The commandments they speak of are what God demanded of the 13th tribe (an example god commands them to procreate). The humanoid models may not even be entirely aware that their religion mirrors the 13th tribe's ancient religion. This desire to find earth is also part of this borrowed (and possibly distorted) religion. The cylons want to find earth because according to their religion earth is the promised land...and it probably was...for the 13th colony. [[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 12:06, 30 January 2007.


== Lords of Kobol vs other gods ==

I don't think it's sensible to assume that every god or goddess mentioned is a Lord of Kobol. Case in point [[Aurora, Goddess of the Dawn]]. The Greeks didn't just have the Twelve Olympians (after whom the Lords seem to directly modeled after), but also minor deities. No reason the Colonials shouldn't as well. Another example is Nike, who is mentioned - even if not by name - in "Torn". She hang around with Zeus, and is often portrayed together with Athena, but is not a real Olympian.<br/>
I suggest we have another header called "Other gods" or "Other deities" for those, with maybe a footnote stating that their status is uncertain. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:08, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

:I've generally felt that any god mentioned in the context of worship was a Lord of Kobol--the Colonials are very monotheistic. However, since we don't have clearer contexts for some, such as names used in [[Temple]] or something, it may be safe not to read too much into them. Some could be counterparts to [[w:Saint|saints]] for all we know. I agree that the Olympian/Titan arguments are meaningless here since Roman versions and other religions get mixed about. I generally agree with your comments. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:39, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
::The Colonials use Greek and Roman names interchangeably, but that doesn't have anything to do with the Olympian/Lords of Kobol parallel. I just have a feeling that that are just twelve Lords of Kobol who are direct parallel to the ancient Olympians. However, there have been a lot of mentions of other mythological figures and gods, especially in the ship names. Or usually when asked about believes it's more "Do you believe in the gods?" instead of "Do you believe in the Lords of Kobol". There is no definite statement that "gods" refers to the Lords of Kobol exclusively, even if they are clearly the main gods. Could go either way. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:06, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
::They're certainly [[w:polytheism|polytheistic]], not [[w:monotheism|monotheistc]], please read the definitions carefully. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 12:07, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
:::I meant "poly" and mistyped. Thanks. The notion that there are twelve Lords of Kobol is a TOS misconception that seems to have moved to RDM; I don't know of a citation for that. It's a lot easier to say "gods" than "Lords of Kobol", of course. While there could be other monothesistic or polythestic faiths with the Colonials, only one "sect" or denomination has been established officially: the five priests of the [[Temple of Five]]. Must be significant: they got a temple out of it in the middle of nowhere. -- [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:13, 18 April 2007 (CDT) <sup>([[User_Talk:Spencerian|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Spencerian|Contribs]] - [[Special:Editcount/Spencerian|WonderNumbers]])</sup>
::::I get what you're saying, but I noticed a tendency here lately to push one kind of agenda, when there isn't much concrete evidence to pursue another equally valid interpretation. Obviously something needs to be written, but lack of concrete evidence for point A doesn't prove point B. There is no evidence for there being more than 12 Lords of Kobol either, though Occam's Razor would probably come to that conclusion then. But there are theories that the Lords were originally human leaders of the tribes who were deified later (even before the exodus from Kobol). It's speculation, but agrees with the quotes from the scriptures...As said, it could be either way.
::::However, this has nothing to do with different faiths. Nothing prevents a worshiper of the Lord of Kobol to also recognize or worship certain either deities. The ancient Greeks didn't only worship the Olympians for example. Exclusive worship is somewhat of a monotheistic concept. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:36, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
:::::I don't think we even know if all the named Olympians are Lords of Kobol. Maybe "Lords of Kobol" is synonymous with "the gods", maybe it refers exclusively to the Olympian Dodekatheon, maybe it includes the Dodekatheon and the One Whose Name Cannot Be Spoken, maybe it only includes a few of the Olympians. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 18:35, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
::::::My point is that we haven't been explicitly told of any other ''faiths'', which differs from the number of gods. A single god can be worshipped differently based on many different faith structures, such as the Jews and Christians do. We haven't been given ''any'' data that suggests that their are other central faith structures other than the Lords of Kobol and God (with the [[five priests]]' diety being a possible exception). There are obviously different "denominations", for lack of a better term (Gemonese and Sagittarons do this), but I don't tend to interpret matters any further. Be it 10 or 10,000 Lords, they may fall under the same central faith structure. We don't know, so I don't try to interpret it much, but just drop it in the place that best fits. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:47, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
:::::::Agreed. There is only evidence of one religion practiced in the twelve colonies, with various sects, denominations and personal interpretations, however it seems to be, for the most part, relatively uniform. There are two possible exceptions, however both of them may be particularly divergent sects / denominations of the colonial religion. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 19:28, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
:::::::: I disagree with the assumption that Aurora is a Lord of Kobol. She may be a god, but that doesn't make her a Lord of Kobol. I don't think anyone familiar with Greek mythology would think she fits with Zeus, Hera, Aphrodite, Artemis, Apollo, Athena, etc.

:::::::: I disagree with the assumption that Jupiter is just another name for Zeus and Mars is just another name for Ares. This has not been demonstrated on the show. However, I do realize that I'm the only one who thinks this way and that no one can grasp that they might be slightly different entities, like one a clone of the other. What if Jupiter is the Cylon God, while Zeus is a Colonial god. Think of the sacrilege your Wiki page is committing then!!! Remember ''only a Cylon'' has ever mentioned the god Jupiter. The Sacred Scrolls have (thus far) never mentioned this god - only Zeus, Hera, and the One Whose Name Cannot Be Spoken, whom I think is Jupiter. The temple of Five is for the One Whose Name Cannot Be Spoken, and the Sacred Scrolls tell us that the Eye of Jupiter is in the Temple of Five. Do the math. --[[User:MHall|MHall]] 17:45, 11 October 2007 (CDT)
:::::::::I think that, in the specific case of Zeus/Jupiter, RDM or one of TPTB mentioned that the name had to be changed from Zeus (which it originally was) because of some sort of copyright reason or something like that. I think it's either on a podcast or an interview, but I'm sure I heard it. I'll look it up. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 19:29, 11 October 2007 (CDT)
::::::::::Okay, I looked and found one in the "Eye of Jupiter" podcast [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Podcast:The_Eye_of_Jupiter]. I dunno if it's the one I remember, but either way the reasoning is different from what I thought, but the fact remains that Jupiter and Zeus are the same being-
:::::::::::'''''"Eye of Jupiter" was originally called "Eye of Zeus" for a very long time in draft form and into script. We changed the name, ultimately, for not very deep reasons. Just that there was something about "Eye of Zeus" that seemed a bit too mystical and a little bit too over-the-top, even for us. And that's saying somethin'. But we didn't want to- the story still was what the story was, and we didn't really wanna lose that aspect of what the episode was and the slide to call it Jupiter instead of Zeus was an arbitrary one, except it, somehow, for subjective reasons that are hard to explain, it sounded a little less hokey. Some could argue it's more hokey, but it was also a nice way to broaden the pantheon, as it were, ha ha ha, of the gods and their references in the Galactica universe and the mythos, in that Zeus being the Greek name for the father of the gods, and Jupiter being the later Roman version of the same idea. And it was nice to have both names- both proper names present in the Galactica world. I believe we've used other Roman names, from time to time, as well, although of course right off the top of my head I can't remember which ones they were, but I think we have established that. '''''
::::::::::So yeah....same being. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 19:40, 11 October 2007 (CDT)
:::::::::::I'm familiar with the podcast, as well as the other source Sauron18 mentioned. What is there is not one Zeus running around, but two generations of Zeus running around? Then your page is screwed, because RDM decided, for somewhat arbitrary reasons, to call the older Zeus "Zeus" and the younger Zeus "Jupiter," and they are not the same individual, not even necessarily on the same "side." I'm content to lodge the protest and wait for the show to possibly prove your "canon" false. Yes, it could be that the page is correct - but it could be that the page is committing blasphemy in both the Cylon and Colonial religions, which would be an unpardonable sin, times two. This is my last comment on this. --[[User:MHall|MHall]] 02:15, 13 October 2007 (CDT)

== About Hera ==

I've recently gone through several Lord of Kobol articles and removed the Greek mythological references since this information isn't needed here (we're not a general encyclopedia) and because the Earth information doesn't always mesh with the series information. Right now, there's enough references for each Lord to stand on their own without out-of-universe comparisons.

One note about Hera. In our mythology she is the wife AND sister of Zeus (gross as that might be to some). I was about to revert [[User:Mudflap|Mudflap's]] recent deletion of the "sister" part when I realized after checking that the show has NOT noted this element of Hera in its own mythology. So, that stands for now. As I said, there is sufficient mythology generated by the show itself now to avoid adding much from our universe to theirs. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:15, 22 May 2007 (CDT)

: Selloi: I have a message for you from the one you worship. He speaks through me to you just as he speaks in your dreams. The message is... the fruit born of two peoples [Three's smile fades.] is alive. A child named after the wife and sister of the all-knowing Zeus. Hera lives.

: So, Hera is wife and sister of Zeus. I think somewhere on the page it says Zeus is the head God of the Colonials. What if Hera is the head God of the Colonials instead? I don't think it's been established that Zeus is the head God for the Colonials. He is all-knowing, true. --[[User:MHall|MHall]] 17:45, 11 October 2007 (CDT)
::Zarek: Zeus has returned to the Olympus. [Lee looks puzzled.] Adama's back.
::Good enough for me. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 02:16, 12 October 2007 (CDT)
:::And so if Zarek had said, "Artemis has returned to Olympus. Starbuck's back.", then this would mean that Artemis was the head god of the Colonials? There are 12 gods living in Olympus, ya know.
:::Boomer: I think those are the Gates of Hera.
:::Starbuck: You think?
:::Boomer: I'm putting together a lot of pieces from a lot of sources beyond your scriptures. If I'm right, that's the spot where your God supposedly stood and watched Athena throw herself down onto the rocks below out of despair over the exodus of the 13 tribes. 
:::It's possible that the Colonials were once monotheistic and their God was Hera. And if it's possible, then you can't say their head god is Zeus. Who is the President of the Colonies? Zeus (Adama) or Hera (Roslin)? The Cylon God, as I indicated above, could be Jupiter. --[[User:MHall|MHall]] 02:01, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
::::The connotation here is that, given Adama is the military leader of the Fleet, Adama is the king of the gods, a la Zeus. Also, at the time that Zarek said that comment, Adama was effectively the leader of the Fleet, given that Roslin was basically overthrown due to the martial law decree and her prior arrest. 
::::The correlation is clear here, and I don't see it being muddied up unless the writers choose to do so.  Adama is Zeus. 
::::Your Artemis/Starbuck example is logically flawed in that Starbuck herself is a Viper pilot, not the leader of the Fleet. So while Artemis would be a god, she would not be the head god. Also, Artemis is the "maiden goddess of the hunt", which describes Starbuck's initial role in the series (i.e. the best Viper pilot in the Fleet).
::::Also, there's nothing to say that the Cylons even follow the same god from the Colonial's pantheon. And most of the evidence given so far mentioned that they follow a completely different God. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki &mdash; ''New'']</sup> 02:28, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
::::As to the Boomer quote "you God" does not necessarily imply "your ''only'' God". It can also (and very likely does) mean "''one of'' your Gods". --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 06:31, 13 October 2007 (CDT)

== Sisters ==

The article says "It is probable that Sisters, like Brothers, are lay clergy." Caprica character [[Clarice Willow]] is called both a "sister" and a "high priestess" in the casting info, so maybe "brother" and "sister" are simply interchangeable with "priest" and "priestess"? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 18:26, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:It's possible, but keep in mind that this is a preliminary casting sheet. It's probably based on the current script, but a lot of things changed from the Miniseries script that is public to the aired version. So, we shouldn't conclude too much from one or two words in it. Sure, it might turn out right, but we can still change it then. Personally, I've always thought that brother/sister is used for monks/nuns. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:59, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::I'll ask Bradley Thompson at [[BW:OC]]. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 19:07, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Up until recently the use of "priest" was gender-neutral, using Elosha as a first example. If the official cast sheets for episodes use "priestess", that's OK, but I wanted to ensure we're not injecting our own words for established data. I've noted this for the unnamed female priest (assuming she, too was not a sister) in the Unnamed Characters list and the [[Escape Velocity]] article. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:04, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

== Buddhism in the Twelve Colonies? ==

I was watching "Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down" and during the shot of the Observation Deck with Billie and Dualla, I noticed a bald man in orange robes in a meditative position. There was also an "ohmm" sound in the background murmur. RDM mentioned his interest in Eastern religions and philosophy and we know that different religious beliefs such as Caprica-monotheists and Mithraists existed and Saggitarrians practiced a different form of the Colonial religion. While I realise that meditation exists in many religions, the posture and style of the bald man strikes me as Buddhistic. Should we mention in the article that Buddhism or practices-in-the-Colonial-Religion-that-resemble-Buddhism existed in the Colonies?
Heres the picture of the Observation Deck picture by the way: [http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/d/df/GalacticaInterior_ObservationDeck.jpg]
Note: I moved this question from God (RDM) where I accidentally posted to here just in case any of the moderators think it was vandalism. --[[User:Neakal|Neakal]] 19:08, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

== What about Final Five comics? ==

Hi there.

Had anybody thought about adding informations from the Final Five comics into this article? Some think ( as I do) the comics are relevent because one of the author was also an author of BSG (can't remember who). 

We got basically a confirmation of the existence of higher beings that accept the Lords of Kobol name, even if they don't fancy it much and state that one of them is a rogue one, unable to follow the rules.

What do you think we should do with it? {{unsigned|Palpat}}

: As of right now, there's absolutely no definitive word on whether or not the ''Final Five'' comic mini-series is actually canon, regardless of [[Seamus Kevin Fahey]]'s involvement. It's nice back story, although there are several irregularities between these books and what's been established in air content (such as Sam Anders being a homeless bum on Earth I). The other aspect that gives the sensible amongst us pause is the word "interpretation" used on the cover of each of the books in this tag-line: "An original interpretation of the story of the Final Five." -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 00:52, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

I indeed re-read carefully discussions about final five comics article and came accross a few recent post relativising the said canonicity I missed back in early summer when I inquired about it. So waiting for the Plan is a good idea too. And I never cared much about the "original interpretation" thing, but it makes sense indeed.


==The Gods are Dead==

I was reading the newest article on the Caprican and one of the sentences really stood out to me "C-Bucs were defeated by the Leonis Wildcats, 98-96, in a six-minute overtime that lasted approximately two seconds.  The gods are, indeed, dead." Now, whether this is a genuine belief in the twelve colonies or just a turn of phrase or a Colonial version of Freidrich Nietze's famous quote is up to interpretation but considering the belief that the Colonies hold that Athena threw herself off of the ledge of Kobol it might be worth discussing as a valid cannon point.

I guess, what I'm asking is has there ever been any more references to more than one Colonial deity being deceased? 
[[User:These|These]] 19:21, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

:No, but Cerberus did say Man has overthrown the Gods. I think it's a Nietchsze thing and/or a reference to secularism and technologism. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 20:38, 21 March 2010 (UTC)


==Caprica==

In the pilot of Caprica, we see people in the V-club sacrificing people to Hecate, described as the "goddess of the underworld". I think we ought to add Hecate to the list of Lords of Kobol, and add something about Hades being absent. Also, some notes on the monotheistic religion in society should be included. -- [[User:Meshakhad|Meshakhad]] 17:53, March 19 2011
:Hades isn't absent. Canceron's capital is named after him and he's mentioned in Serge's Twitter account; Serge clarifies that the Colonials see him as a positive, heroic figure (as opposed to some modern portrayals). -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 01:02, 21 March 2011 (UTC)