Editing Talk:Pegasus (Extended Version)/Archive 1

I had initially thought this could be a subsection on "[[Pegasus (episode)]]", but I think our analysis of all of the material in Pegasus: Extended Version would run so long, on the already long "Pegasus" article page, that we should pre-emptively set it up as a separate episode page.  More on this when the DVD comes out.  --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 04:07, 6 August 2006 (CDT)

Just noticed that there's an own page for it. I'll go ahead an do a chronological list of the changes first.
This might take a few hours --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:12, 14 September 2006 (CDT)

Ok, I made a chronological list that should include just about everything important. I had the episode running on my computer and compared it with a transcript of the original version and in some cases with a video file of it. There might be some tiny things missing, but probably nothing big.<br>
I also included a bit of analysis on how some scenes change the episode, a few quotes, and I removed the redundant "official comments" that listed some of those scenes.<br>
English isn't my native tongue, so you might want to check it for errors in spelling and grammar. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:39, 14 September 2006 (CDT)
:Looks good. Some others will do that spelling and grammar. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 08:42, 14 September 2006 (CDT)


About that edit in "questions": "* Sharon being actually raped makes her nearly catatonic state in "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]" more believable."<br>
Actually I did mean "RS, Part '''One'''. The scene between her Cottle and Adama where Adama apologizes. Not the one where Tyrol and Helo visit her in the cell or the Adama/Sharon conversation. She was a bit more lively there<br>
I admit though, that the interpretation is subjective and other people might see it different. For me her breaking down and crying immediately after the rape fits more with it being carried out than attempted. Interestingly, there is one fragment in RS where Helo says "attempt" (to Fisk) while the rest the episodes treat it more like it really happened. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:19, 16 September 2006 (CDT)
:She was in a state of shock, not catatonia, in part I. In part II she was more catatonic-like (sitting in a corner and blankly playing with a pillow) until she saw Helo. Her immediate crying in Pegasus and her shock in part 1 are consistent with attempted as well as actual rapes. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 10:10, 16 September 2006 (CDT)
::Yeah, catatonia is probably too strong a word. How about saying "her state of shock" then, and linking to both episodes? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:23, 16 September 2006 (CDT)
:::That entire note seemed so wrong-headed and offensive that I removed it. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:24, 29 September 2006 (CDT)
::::Maybe it doesn't really make it more believable, but I stand by my opinion that it makes Adama's and Cottle's reaction more powerful and meaningful. Sharon should probably be shocked at attempted rape too, but just staring blankly ahead seemed a bit much for what happened. I think that scene was written/filmed with the full version in mind --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:03, 30 September 2006 (CDT)
::::I found the note insightful. Can you please clarify the nature of your objection? --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 20:43, 30 September 2006 (CDT)
:::::I agree with it being insightful. And visit to [[BW:CIV]] wouldn't hurt. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 21:28, 30 September 2006 (CDT)
:::::As mentioned earlier, Sharon's behavior is "consistent with attempted as well as actual rapes". The note seems to imply that as long as the rapist doesn't actually succeed in penetrating his victim, the victim has no right to be traumatized by the attack. I find that offensive and ignorant. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:04, 30 September 2006 (CDT)
::::::I can certainly understand that, and I expressed a similar sentiment at [[Talk:Scar#Did they do it?]] concerning Kara and Lee's (consensual) hook-up. That being said, it is foolish to suppose that an attempted rape has the same psychological consequences as an actual one. I do not believe that making this distinction implicitly dismisses Sharon's "right to be traumatized" in the absence of penetration. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 23:17, 30 September 2006 (CDT)
:::::::The distinction is more than adequately made already. Sharon's behavior in this and other episodes is also perfectly consistent with either version of events. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 00:29, 1 October 2006 (CDT)
::::::::I think we need to be clear that we're talking about a performance, not an actual event. Grace Park obviously played Sharon's response to the assault knowing that her character had been raped. The scene was then cut. If an audience member feels that, with the wider context afforded by the extended version, her performance is more consistant, this is a perfectly natural and valid observation to make. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 18:09, 2 October 2006 (CDT)

From what I've gathered, both versions were actually filmed separately with the intent to decide later which cut to include in the final episode, so Grace Park didn't actually know whether her character was, in fact, raped or not until final cut. Her performance was perfectly consistent with either version of events. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 17:02, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
:I don't believe this is the case - the TV version just cuts away earlier. Additionally, as Brad Thompson [[Battlestar_Wiki:Official_Communiques/Archive04#Pegasus_.28Extended_Version.29|stated]], "In the case of Pegasus, we always assumed the long version happened and we wrote as if you all had seen it, too". --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 17:41, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
::And I recall cast interviews stating otherwise. Not that this should even be an issue here. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 01:17, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
:::I'm also sick of this argument. Are you interested in suggesting some kind of compromise wording? Otherwise, I'm just going to reinstate Serenity's comment. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 02:09, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
:::I recall interviews where people - especially Grace Park - stated that it was shot like in the full version, but edited down later on request of the network. That's also clear when you compare the scenes. The extened version doesn't just add material that was shot seperately. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:05, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

I don't think there can be a compromise here. Either it stays out, or we issue a blanket insult to millions of victims of sexual assault. Your call. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 07:44, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

== Canon? ==

Which version of the rape scene is considered canon? Is the regular version an alternate take or is it just edited?{{unsigned|Kravotran}}

:Welcome, Kravotran. That's a good question. Unless I'm mistaken, the attempted rape is canonical since it was aired. This extended version article exists to discuss the other scenes that were not shown on the air but on the DVD release only. We treat deleted scenes as canonical unless aired content or retroactive continuity adjustments are made by the writers that conflicts with the deleted scenes. The scene, while not canonical, is quite more dramatic.

:By the way, be sure to sign your comments. You can use the next-to-last button on the editing toolbar, or type in four tildes <nowiki>(--~~~~)</nowiki> to do it. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 07:32, 17 October 2006 (CDT)

::Leaving aside my deep hatred for the c-word, the producers said that they considered the Extended Version to have really happened. Even when it wasn't released yet. I can't find the interview or quote now though, because it's been a while. This is just a case of deleted scenes anyways --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:16, 17 October 2006 (CDT)

:::I believe Bradley Thompson said it on [[BW:OC]], that the writing room operates as if every scene that was shot actually happened. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 08:34, 17 October 2006 (CDT)

::::So the jury considers it canonical, which is a [[retroactive continuity|retcon]] from the aired version. From here, I figure, its a matter of taste. I like that the writers want to keep the story consistent; a rare but pleasant matter in running a show. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:00, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
::::[[Battlestar_Wiki:Official_Communiques/Archive04#Pegasus_.28Extended_Version.29]] <-- Link --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 10:04, 17 October 2006 (CDT)

I haven't had a chance to actually see the extended version of Pegasus. The way I understand it, the aired version of the scene would be canonical, since it's the version that everybody saw. So the extended version scene would only be canon if it's consistent with the aired version, which is why I asked whether the aired scene used alternate footage or whether it just edited out the bits showing Sharon being raped. So which is it?--[[User:Kravotran|Kravotran]] 02:12, 18 October 2006 (CDT)Kravotran
:The rape was edited out for time. Everything not in the original aired version that was in the extended was purely taken out for editing. Watch the regular version as if the extended scenes DID happen, you just didnt see them. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 03:39, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
::Excactly. There is no contradiction whatsoever. The extended rape scene is simple a few seconds more where you see Thorn penetrating Sharon and they fight a bit more. But it's not an alternate scene! That is, it's not literally a different version of the same events, even if it changes ones view of them. The same goes for all other scenes. They're just additions to the material from the aired version. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:45, 18 October 2006 (CDT)